Tim Miller: Wait, Are You Getting Squishy?

Welcome to the weekend Bullework Podcast i m trolley Sykes. So it does look like summer twenty twenty two is ending with kind of a bang. So that’s why we’re going to wrap up this week with a conversation with my colleague, Tim Miller, New York Times best selling author. Tim Miller.

So good to be here August. You know, I was supposed to be quiet. Sleepy all guessed a myth. Yeah.

But this is sort of it. I mean, this is we’re we’re we’re coming up to Labor Day. That’s the That’s the kind of quasi unofficial end of summer. I don’t know whether this is like the old times when people would say, well, that’s that’s when the campaign season begins of course, the campaign season never begins because it never ends. It’s like one of those those infinity loops now.

Right? It’s pushing that boulder up the hill every day.

That’s true. And and here in Oakland, you know, summer is really in October. So which is really nice. You know, it’s our hottest month of the year. So it’s

kind of, you know, I think the rules out the window in twenty twenty two. Yeah. In in Wisconsin, summer is three weeks in July. So

it’s already over. You’ve you’ve already put up your pumpkins.

Yeah. So it’s it’s not like we don’t have a lot to talk about today, there’s abortion, there’s student loans, and there’s reports and threats of coups investigations. Today is happy redacted Mar a Lago, AFA David Search warrant, Friday. Warren, I do not know what that’s going to be. So we shouldn’t speculate about it.

But you know, I just hope that people don’t have irrational expectations about something that’s probably gonna be a lot of, like, black cross sells. Oh, no.

Just I’m just hoping that, you know, on one of the pages they just accidentally used to see through Sharpie. You know, like that makes sense. Really can kind of get a get a picture. I

just wanted to have

my bad oops. You know? Yeah. We don’t know. We’ll be in there.

I don’t wanna get over skis, but I do wanna say one thing that that was interesting this week that that shouldn’t get lost, which was that the Trump legal team, to the extent that it exists, might just be the game show host himself, filed a motion requested that the archivists demonstrate what the justification was for the various documents, you know, I think assuming that it was going to embarrass, I guess, divide the administration or or It’s not unclear what they were assuming. It’s not they’re not it’s not exactly the best legal minds over there. And what it revealed earlier this week was that Joe Biden and the executive branch had no completely recused themselves from determining, you know, which of these, you know, documents were were appropriately classified. They he did not have his hands in there. There’s a lot there were a lot of wild accusations about this supposedly politicized investigation.

That was number one. And number two, if, like, went into greater detail than we had, but not like how sensitive the documents were. I knew it was just an utter cell phone by Trump. And his, like, o a n pin up lawyers. And so, you know, at this point, with the information we’ve got, DOJ, archivist, White House has been has been doing the right thing.

We’ll see. What more will that?

It is a bit awkward. So rather than start with the most important stories of the day, shall we talk about the most trivial story of the day? There’s a lot of competition for that. Mhmm. You tweeted out a clip from — Yeah.

— Jared who what what is he? He’s he he did though a Megyn Kelly show apparently in front of a locker or something. It’s it’s not clear. You wrote a a sociopathic slender man summarizes his self help book for Megyn Kelly, and he goes through the deep thoughts, the life lessons. Here is lesson number three from Jared fails son-in-law.

Let’s play it. And number three, just don’t apologize. I think that, you know, we’re kind of in a post apology world. Where people take up an apology as an affirmation of guilt and then they just, you know, cancel or hit you even harder for it. But okay.

Can we just play that one more time? Because I

I I wanna I wanna hit a lot of unpacked there.

I I know this this play one more time because I I have some trivial points and some deep thoughts about Jared Kushner’s deep thoughts. Plenty. And number three is don’t apologize. I think that, you know, we’re kind of in a post apology world where people take up an apology as an admonition of guilt and then they just you know, cancel or hit you even harder for it. But So is it petty for me to just flag the fact that he misuses the word admonition He he wants to say admission, but he says admission because I don’t know if that sounds smarter.

What? I don’t know what. But are you are you admissioning him for misusing his language and that

sound and that sounds good.

So it is true that we’re in a post apology world, but he’s stating it is, this is a good thing. Right? This is one of my lessons in life. Never apologize. As as self help books for hundreds of years have have said as religious leaders for centuries.

Have said, never apologized, never confessed to sins, as fathers have told their sons for decades. Son. Never apologize. Never admit error. Never what?

Okay.

Yeah. Two layers. I’m glad that you just went to biblical writ because I have two more kind of practical concerns with the advice. Number one is, I cut that part off because it was just, like, the most embarrassing and shameful on one. But The broader context of this clip, these lessons, is he was sharing with Megyn Kelly the lessons that he’d learned from his father-in-law Donald Trump.

The first one was I believe that controversy elevates message. I think the second one was something that’s never backed down, something like that. And the third one was never apologized. The interesting contextual point about all of this is that, like, his father-in-law lost by seven million votes. And more people turned out to vote against him than any president in American history.

And so, I don’t know, maybe there should be some reflection about whether the lessons that he learned from his father-in-law were actually even even if they were moral and ethical, which they plainly or not as you as you laid out. Maybe they also aren’t great lessons for winning. I don’t you know, I maybe it is probably about being a little bit more apologetic shown a little more humility, been less prone to trying to elevate message through compromise, maybe he would have won reelection. Running. He did.

He went bigly. Yo, that’s a good point. He wants to go.

Lesson number eight. Never admit defeat. Never concede ever. And if if lesson number nine, if you are served a big pile of shit, say that it’s gold. And enough people will believe you at ages say it over and over and over again and, you know, that And it worked for him.

Otherwise, in the pockets of life, I did this, I had had too much coffee before the eleventh hour with Stephanie Ruell last night. Yeah. And so I was up late, and I I decided to punish myself and hope it would help me fall asleep listening to the sociopathic swinger man with Megyn Kelly. And he wouldn’t admit to Meghan’s credit. I’ll give her one one merit and one demerit.

To her on on the merit side of the ledger, She did try to get him four times. She asked him to say whether it was legitimate defeat, and and he wouldn’t do it. Well So there you go. I I guess never apologized, never admit defeat. But on the demerit side, I did find it interesting that after, you know, this little privileged fucking man child who has had everything handed to him by his criminal

justice. Explicit rating there because

Criminal father-in-law. Like, oh, oh, really? You never had to apologize. I wonder why. Anyway, I I noticed that Megan Kelly didn’t follow-up with what I thought would have thought was the natural follow-up, which was, I don’t know, I would have liked an apology.

When your father-in-law told me that I was menstruating on live TV — Mhmm. — just because I was doing my job, that would have been nice. You know, an apology would have been appropriate, I think. She got open now, I guess. She didn’t do that.

That wouldn’t be tough. So I don’t know. I wouldn’t recommend going on Jared Kushner’s podcast tour as he promotes his book. I am slender man, but I will say this. One final plug is he has passed me in the Amazon rankings.

So if listening to this segment, this weekend. If you are one of the few, unfortunately,

you never heard

just New York Times bestseller. Why we did it? Because I’m not at all better about being beaten by this freaking lightweight sociopath. But yeah, if you wanna help me push me back up the rankings right back ahead of them buy a gift, it’s Labor Day weekend. Be true.

Looking for something very not uplifting to read over your Labor Day. Why we did it? Amazon dot com. You know? I still have the competitive forces.

I can tell. So I had a couple more thoughts about this. I’m looking at his face. I’m looking at the sociopathic slender man summarizing, you know, his deep thoughts. And I’m thinking who would look at him and go, hey, I would like to invest several billion dollars in this guy.

Who’s just basically admitted, whatever you do, don’t ever apologize, do not ever allow yourself to to be held accountable for your fuckups. Yes, I want to, you know, Tim Bin Miller. I would I would like to give him two billion dollars to invest because I trust this man so much because that’s number one. Number two, unless you wanna weigh in on that.

Well, this you mentioned his face. I just are we getting to the Botox? Or are are you just waiting to go to the Botox? I’m not going do think it’s odd. I mean, nothing against BOTOX.

I think everyone should do it. They should they they think is right to make themselves look as appealing and feel good and self improvement. I’m I’m for all of that. I don’t know, you know, a forty year old that has, like, a weird kind of slithering face. I just I don’t know the slithering lip the lip injections are really were really That’s good, though.

You know, you did you

just slip that in the slithering face for people who who thought that you could listen to the Bulwark podcast and not have a Harry Potter reference in the first ten minutes. Alright. The other point though is that understand that to the extent and and and please bear with me here to the extent that there is a trumpian philosophy. This this this absolute belief that you never apologize, you never admit error, you never ask for forgiveness. Is pretty fundamental.

I mean, that is one of the absolutely base beliefs of this guy. And and go back, you remember, I’m do you do? I’m sure you were seriously,

I was learned

into your memory. The Iowa Family Leadership Summit — Mhmm. — in in two thousand fifteen, I think. Or two thousand sixteen. He was asked whether he’d ever asked God for forgiveness.

And and Trump, I have this in front of me. And Trump answered, I’m not sure I have. I just go out and try to do a better better job from there. I don’t think so. I think if I’ve done something wrong, I think I just try to make it right.

I don’t bring God into that picture. I don’t Now, let’s see, I was so naive back that I’m thinking that saying this in front of a group of Christians in the old sense of the word, they would go, okay, this guy clearly is not one of us. I mean, there’s a certain disconnect there, Tim. I mean, I’m not a theologian. But I’m thinking that a guy that says, yeah, I sin forgiveness.

Don’t believe and think about God there. You know, it’s really not relevant. No. I’ve never asked for forgiveness. And yet, you think about the impact he’s had on the general culture.

And more specifically, among people who considered themselves, Christian, and they listened to that, and they went, this is our guy.

You know. What’s the final thought? It just is a Catholic, is a cradle Catholic. It is just a mystery of all time that the Catholic integralists, you know, the people who are basically looking for a Catholic Hunter. In this country, you know, the most devout, so to speak, or, you know, claiming to be devout, Catholics, you still have Amari types, convert.

I’ve chosen this person. I mean, for I know of all the I think I can speak with the most expertise about Catholic doctrine and, you know, confession and asking for forgiveness is is like literally about the most fundamental element of your responsibility as a Catholic. And to think that they would have turned to this guy despite the fact that we’ve analyzed it and overanalyzed it and written books about it. Okay. It just still remains hard — Right.

— you know, to make that connection in your head, about how these guys do it. Yeah. It it’s worse than that,

though. Is not only have they accepted him, and and you could argue, will they They wanna delete, you wanna Yeah. Yeah. That that, you know, that that they wanted power and they were making the fella’s cheeseburger. I mean, okay.

So that’s bad. What’s worse is the way in which so many Americans have internalized the same anti value, which is you never apologized, you never confessed, you never allow yourself to be held accountable. You never ask for forgiveness. And the way that that has turned the the political culture on its head, including the culture of people who, you know, you know, again, five minutes ago, which I mean, ten years ago, you know, would have said these were fundamental values. This is the way you raise your children.

This is the way you were raised. This is, you know, this is why we talk about sportsmanship. This is what a man is about. And you saw you have the coarsening of the political culture. And of the Christian political culture, that emulates the worst elements of this guy they’ve embraced.

So, you know, the fact that they supported Trump is is awful. We’ve talked about that. But the way in which they have home, you know, and that they will go out and they will buy books telling them, never apologized. Never ever asked for forgiveness. And they go, yes.

Yes. This is right. Mhmm. Because in all of the because the other side is just so awful. I mean, that’s could I also mention one other thing, though?

I think Jared’s

defense. Oh, no. Never mind. I

had the the pregnant pause there because you were, what? No. No. The thing is that apologies are difficult. I mean, let’s talk about I mean, you and I both know this.

Apologies are difficult because there is another culture out there, which basically says we will never accept your apology. That that if you do apologize, they will, as he sort of said, will double down on you. We kind of know this. Right? There are people who, for whom there is, no forgiveness ever.

There is no coming back. And so you can kind of understand that at a certain point, when you have apologized, when you have asked for forgiveness, and people use that as a cudgel to beat you over your head. You understand how you create, you know, homunculus is like this. Who will go, okay. So because that didn’t work out well, because there are assholes out there that will never accept my apology, then let’s not apologize anymore.

And I’m sure that’s called

building character. Yes.

Exactly.

Thank you. That’s why we used to teach you, but that’s why this is a virtue. Right? It’s not a virtue because you just get to apologize and it’s easy and people just let you off the hook and after after everyone likes you off the hook. I don’t that isn’t those weren’t the lessons that you know, are in the bible or can’t do

very nails or

any of our founding documents. So

Because it’s hard. And that’s what it it’s easy. You don’t wave a wand and get abs solution. You have to do something about it. But that’s right.

That’s why that’s called build his. Building character And basically, this entire movement that was all about character counts. Character counts is like fuck character. That’s for Cox. You know what I mean?

Anyway,

here we are seventeen minutes in. If you wanna just get riled up at night, if you had one of your your coffee a little too late in the afternoon like I did, I just I just recommend Megan Kelly’s new podcast, vice signaling. What’s Megan what’s Megan Kelly with Jared Kushner? It’s done as good. A lot of content.

Okay. Now we gotta have to get serious, sir. The politics of abortion, a lot of data points, lots of polls out here. Two stories I wanted to bounce off you. In Arizona, Blake Masters, has apparently decided to scrub his website.

He’s backtracking. He had all kinds of things about, you know, detailed support for a federal constitutional amendment that would ban all abortions everywhere. I’m a hundred percent pro life, all of that. And now that language is completely gone, I just have the sense that there are going to be a lot of stories like this that because in the primaries, it was it was easy. Well, well, you had to move as far right as possible.

And also for the last fifty years, Republican politicians have been able to take the most outlandish positions knowing that it was theoretical. It was never real. And now they’re they’re kind of scrambling and he’s down by double digits in Michigan. The candidate Republican candidate for governor last week explains that rape victims should have to have the babies because they would find healing through giving birth to their rapist baby. This week, Republican tutored Dixon is now trailing Democratic incumbent Gretchen Whitmer by double digits.

So this is not working out well for them at the moment.

Yeah. I’m about to break one of Jared Kushner’s twelve rules for sociopathic living right now by saying that I I got this a little wrong. I think when Dom’s overturned, I I expected the increased engagement from Democrats, obviously. And I thought that it would help them, you know, close that enthusiasm gap. One thing I think I just didn’t quite expect.

And and and partially, this is, you know, Democrats deserve some credit here about having some relative restraint in their messaging, in their response to this, and how they’ve responded. And part of this is they don’t really didn’t do anything. They just got this huge gift from all of these horrible Republican candidates who have no no chill and no restraint in their extremism. But What I kind of expected, right, was that your median voter was

gonna

look at this after a row and just think, you know, the Democrats are running. They’re far extreme and wanna, you know, codify all these rules that I think are a little bit, you know, over the top. About late term abortions etcetera. You know, Republicans running to their extreme and, like, you know, here I am stuck in the middle again. And and that has not happened.

And I I think that right now a median voter looking at the abortion environment says, the Democrats are are basically advocating for status quo. There are some examples in certain blue states where they’re they’re trying to expand, abortion acts. But but basically, you know, if you live in Pennsylvania, right? If you live in Wisconsin, the median state, you’re like, well, evers is pushing essentially for keeping the rules as they are in the state. And the Republicans meanwhile are pushing for just absolutely bad shit as extreme as humanly imaginable laws.

And like we’re seeing them be put in place in other states, So, like, I’m seeing this change happen, you know, in a place like Missouri where it’s like you have a one week abortion ban, no exceptions. You see the video from South Carolina of the Republican state rep saying basically, when we passed this heartbeat bill, I did not mean for it to be wear a nineteen year old woman could go into a hospital and have a non viable baby that happens to have a heartbeat and not be able to get a surgical procedure. That was a Republican just later in in South Carolina who is who is saying this. So so now if you’re a voter looking at this, you’re like, wow, the Republicans are for radical change here. In a way that I don’t support.

You know, they’re pushing these issues that are in the ten percent and the democrats are state. Yeah. Got it.

This was going to be determined by who was able to frame the issue in such a way that the other side was extremist, and the Republicans basically said, hold my beer. We got this. And they and rather than debate this issue or try to change hearts and minds, they went to ramming speed to push through these these criminal laws that were way beyond where the mainstream, even the mainstream of the pro life movement had been. We’re talking about the exceptions for you know, rape and incest questions about the the life of the mother. And look, this is complicated for me, and I think it’s complicated for you.

And I have both said very, very clearly that we have been pro life for a very, very long time. And yet watching the new extremism of the pro life movement. I think it’s distressing. And part of my disappointment with them were alarmed has been I think that there had been some significant progress in changing people’s hearts and minds outside of the criminal code about all of this. I think that there was a cultural shift, you know, that was, you know, taking place, you know, after people, you know, would have the, you know, ultrasound images and pictures and things like that.

But the pro life movement now as it’s you know, going from victory to victory and strength from strength in these led in these legislatures is no longer in the business of persuading people they’re in the business of grabbing for the most absolutest kind of legal solution possible. I mean, and punishing and punishing. And punishing. And, yes, making it very, very punitive. A lot of it’s very, very performative.

I mean, if you look at the polls, you can see where people are. There is a sweet spot of allowing abortion up to a certain date, you know, limits after that. Clearly, there’s almost no constituency for the kind of thing that you’re seeing in some of these trigger laws, raping in says. And yet, you have the Republican nominee for governor in a swing state like Michigan sitting down and explaining why a girl who has been raped should have to have a baby. This is like the talking point from hell five minutes ago.

The more reasonable voices in the pro life mode would have said, you definitely don’t wanna go there. That is that is exactly not the kind of debate you want and she just went there. And I think she’s gonna get hammered for it. Hammer to the hole. Yeah.

And I I think that defying terms here is really important because this is all

changing influx and, you know, what what a conservative means or what all these things mean have have, you know, have been evolving. You know, I think there’d been a lot stasis in our political terminology for a long time that that’s developing now. And I think that put the pro life movement, you know, people kind of aside I think your average pro life voter. Right? I think that if somebody said, my view is that you know, abortion should be legal in the first trimester, you know, maybe up to you know, you can pick a week number, you know, before the child’s viable, whatever it is.

There should be exceptions for rape and says life health, the mother. You know, we should be decent to the mothers and try to give them poor. Yes. Right? Like, they would say, I’m pro life.

Like, I think somebody who has those views would define themselves and say, I’m pro life. Okay. So I I think now what is happening, this is you see this in Kansas, is a person is a person that held Matt View who says I’m pro life is looking at what what is being proposed and are like, I’m horrified by what the thinking can be proposed. Person is is is proposing. Right?

And this is just creating you know, I think massive problems for Republicans and that goes to the Blake Masters ad, which is you can just see that his polling is showing this. And and that he so this like, master’s ad, if if you wanna watch it, you can Google it. He is also he he and Krishna are very similar. I don’t I don’t know if they’re going to the same facial reconstruction doctor or if there’s something that’s happening in the lab there. I don’t know what’s going on.

But he micro needling. Yeah. Yeah. It’s very green based. Screen business.

This this ad. Assets that is is a serious serious topic, Troy. This this ad I she’s is basically him saying, okay. I’m trying to reframe this right now because everything that we’ve been talking about the last five minutes is right. Right?

Like, you know, he had had the personhood amendment on his website, which is basically, you know, a complete ban on abortion, any fertilized egg, you know, as a human, and it should be criminalized. So that was his position during the primary. In this ad, he tries to refine this by saying, oh, wait. No. Mark Kelly used the extremist.

He’s the one that wants abortion on demand. What I really just want is kind of a ban on partial birth abortion and late term abortion. Right? And and this new view of BladeMaster’s radically changed view is, like, that was the sort of that view that he’s landed on was, like, the view that a lot of people who were nominally pro life had Right? Like and and so and so now he’s, like, quickly, like, trying to swim and, you know, doggy paddle back to this position.

But the problem is he’s now gonna be on a ballot with Kerry Lake and the governor’s ballot and with other people like Tudor Dixon throughout the country who who are

sticking with the personhood thing, it’s gonna make you impossible for him to credibly,

you know, make this pivot.

No. I I think I think I think I think you’re right on all of this. And the latest poll out of Michigan shows the way this is shifting. And know, you you you said you, you know, had underestimated this. I I all long thought that the initial polls, it was gonna take a while.

For public opinion to catch up with a new environment because basically you had a fifty year reality that had been changed. And so everything that we had thought we understood about the politics of abortion suddenly it was was gone. And so for example, you know, a lot of focus on whether this energizes Democratic voters think this is also having a tremendous effect on Republican women voters. Many of whom, you know, had been pro choice but voted for anti abortion politicians because they weren’t firing real bullets. Right?

I mean, so it was no big deal. I was talking to somebody yesterday who has boarded up and down the list for anti abortion Republicans despite her beliefs in abortion rights and and very strong beliefs in abortion rights because nothing would ever happen. Well, now that’s completely changed. It’s changed the formula. And I think that you’re starting to see this this latest poll, I don’t know whether you’ve seen this out out of Michigan, the one that shows Gretchen Whitmer up by twenty two points.

This is the epic MRA poll in Michigan. They were asked, would you support an a state constitutional amendment protecting abortion rights? Sixty seven percent said yes. Twenty four percent oppose.

Wow.

That yeah. That’s a hell of a shift because that I’m guessing that if you would have asked questions about this a year ago, you wouldn’t have had that kind of an overwhelming margin. So things are Just

one other thing on this two dickson thing in Michigan. I talked about this a little bit more at length. I I’m the guest Suncera, Long West Focus Group podcast this week. So if people want to double dose attend this weekend, you can go over and check that out. But the short version of this is Dick Tudor, is really running in kind of the Mike Pence wing of the party, right, which is a little different than some of these other candidates.

And that

had

demonstrated to be a failure in a lot of these purple places, purple especially purple leaning blue places like Michigan, because of these social issues. Right? Like Trump to the the woman that you were talking about, I don’t know if she was a Trump voter, but but there are a lot of voters out there who were secular you know, pro choice or or whatever modestly pro life, but, you know, we’re not Zealous about it. That that that Trump appealed to them more than, like, cruise or pants. Right?

Because they looked at cruise and pants as these kind of weird, creepy, like like, very you know, domineering, you know, patriarchal kind of Christian conservatives, and that wasn’t them. Right? And Trump you know, would manage to successfully create a coalition where the evangelicals, you know, completely sold out all their, you know, biblical values as we discussed at the top. To go along with him. But then he got to bring in these secular voters in places like Michigan where, you know, to the stereotypical working class white guy in the diner.

That New York Times went to visit? These people You know, because they don’t they didn’t think look, Donald Trump’s not gonna ban abortion. He probably paid for abortion. But Donald Trump’s not gonna band game marriage. Like, you know, he likes musicals, and he’s from New York City.

And so these people just FedEx, they agree to them on some of the other cultural stuff, right, like the anti woke or whatever. And so now they look at someone like tutor Dixon. I think. And she’s gonna have trouble keeping the Trump coalition together. Some of these new secular voters that came in were like, I did not want a, you know, far right Christian conservative banning abortion in the state.

And and so I think that in a lot of ways, it kind of revealed a crack in the coalition that that that maybe some of the on the Republican side didn’t realize were there. Well,

there’s another crack as well in in in this coalition that you’re saying. Now, you mentioned the issue of gay marriage. You probably followed what My home state senior senator Ron Johnson has been saying about whether he would vote for federal legislation codifying gay marriage Initially, he, you know, indicated that he would vote for it. He didn’t see any reason why not. Because, of course, gay marriage was here to stay.

It was it was He had no problem. So he it looked like Ron Johnson was going to surprise the world, talk the world by actually voting in favor of this bipartisan legislation. Oh, no. Because he got beaten up by the Wisconsin family alliance or whatever and is now saying that it’s completely unnecessary. I can guarantee he’s going to be a no vote.

I always thought he was going to be a no vote. But this again reminds us that there is a a short leash for some of these politicians with their base. So Blake Masters may be scrubbing his website that said he was a hundred percent pro life. Right? But they’re going to be the crazies in Arizona who are gonna go, wait, are you getting squishy on us?

They’re going to make it very hard for any of these guys to pivot to the center on these cultural war issues. I mean — This

was the lesson — — this was of the of the lesson that sociopathic’s wonder man should have taken from his father-in-law is that Trump was able to kind of swish and swash between these sort of groups with with a little with more skill. Than all these imitators are because, like, of his word salad. Right? And people like projected stuff onto him because he was a celebrity and, like, you know, he gave these, like, weird answer or his weird tight diction and and and so he didn’t just get he didn’t get pinned down. In the same way — Right.

— that that a less skilled Blake Masters type politician is going to and and I think he’s gonna find himself in a really a tough spot, especially unless unless he even invites Carrie Lake to move with him. You know, he’s running on the ballot with somebody who’s who’s running on a complete van, no exceptions. You know, it’s hard to be like, well, I’m I’m I’m pivoting to the middle. Yeah.

That’s a great eight percent issue there. Okay. So let’s switch gears to talk about the military. I posted in my newsletter today a partial transcript of my conversation with Elliot Ackerman who is a decorated marine combat veteran who’s written a book about Afghanistan. And we got it to talking about the military culture and the politicization of the military, whether or not the military would actually ever get involved in elections.

And let me just read you a little bit of what he said. He said, I’m really not trying to be an alarmist. But we have such high levels of dysfunction domestically, and every time we kind of set up these scenarios where we’re asking our military to play a role in domestic politics. We are really tempting the fates. The analogy I use is that these really biddly contested elections, remind me of a drunk driver.

Drum driver will go to the bar. Right? And it will get completely hammered and they’ll drive home. And probably the first time they do that, they make it home. And then they do it again and they make it home the second time and the third time.

Then the fourth of his time. They get hammered drunk and tried to drive home. That’s when they wrap their car around a telephone pole. When I look at our contested elections, It’s like we’re doing the equivalent as a nation of going to the bar, getting just hammered drunk, and we try to drive home. We’ve done it twice now.

And we sort of managed to make it home. But one of these days, if we keep doing this, we are going to wrap our proverbial car around telephone pole. And he’s talking me about, okay, so the line held on the military getting them involved in all of this, but and this culture is pretty strong, but the culture can break and one of the things that in the back of my mind, I keep thinking, we think of the military as being this, you know, really meritocratic organization and, you know, how hard it is to get to the top. And yet we have all these batshit crazy generals who come out. I mean, the Michael Flynn’s and and others is, like, how did they get to positions of power?

How many other of these complete deranged nut jobs are, you know, strutting around in in uniform with the bars on them. And so talk to me about one of these guys. General Bullock, who is running for sent it in New Hampshire? I mean, he’s the kind of guy that’s sort of in my back of my mind about, you know, what’s really going on there? And how worried should we be?

So tell me about General Bullock.

The general. Is that true? I’ve been doing a lot of audio self harm lately. I was I I got turned on to this article listening to Bannon’s podcast last week, and he just or he just refers to this guy as the general which kind of gave me these Air Force one flashbacks to, like, release general erratic, you know, in the in the podcast, but I don’t know. I couldn’t get that image out of my head.

But this general Bullock is just you know, a very fling esque, right, and that he had he he had had risen to the ranks, you know, retired from the military, started to get involved in politics. It started to get involved in also, you know, some nonprofit stuff. I had someone a couple of people send me after the article was up that he into the ad of real I think good advocacy of on on behalf of people from the military who had PTSD. Though, that also kind of begs this kind of question about people who have experienced that sort of thing. I think is even people in the military get concerned about you know, how you know, what in in these high stressed environments, you know, you you put somebody who had that experience and now they’re in a high stressed political environment and, you know, that that can have like this kind of crazy making effect on people, jada, wrote a great book about this recently.

So Anyway, Bulldog has, you know, starts to just kind of go get red build. And I’m sure he’s always conservative to kind of go deep into conspiracy world. Right? And He is deep in the microchip. Bill Gates conspiracy.

You know, so the only chip he’s putting in his body is a Dorito, a very which I’m sure doesn’t have any mystery ingredients. To worry about. But, you know, went very down the rabbit hole about how Bill Gates and Soros are behind Black Lives Matter. They’re a terrorist organization. County started obviously being defensive of confederate monuments, a very popular position up in New Hampshire, of course, which is not part of the confederacy if for those of you who are still kind of working on your geography.

Then the election lies. And and to Ackerman’s point, he signed you might remember the letter in a hundred and twenty four retired generals and admirals released a letter saying that Joe Biden stole the election. Volerick was one of those people. I mean, that is alarming. To have that many people with that high of rank in the military just just advancing this complete lie.

So Voldik is a lunatic. And and in the in the political angle for the article is that that basically Republicans, this is just a less known you know, Hershel Walker situation where where in theory, in a good year for Republicans, New Hampshire is a winnable state. Had they put up like a mainstream Republican like their popular governor, Chris Sunu knew, instead they’re putting up this confederate simplifying conspiracy theorist who has very low chance of winning in a, you know, state that Biden won. And so another just horrible candidate quality issue, but I I do think I I I I like where you went with this. I I do think that that the militarization of our politics is alarming.

And and I think it’s just worth noting because

it’s being

unfriendly turf for us. I think if you look back in retrospect, the intelligence community types weighing in on the Hunter Biden laptop was a massive mistake. Right? And all of I I just so it I don’t think it’s just the kind of red pill to conspiracies, so they’re the more acute concern right now. You know, just having more front and center role of the ex military is a little No.

I completely agree with you. So let let’s stick with the the the senate race and the candidate quality issue for a moment because the New Hampshire story is really interesting because that was one state that Republicans had a reasonable plausible chance of flipping, you know, in a in a Republican, you’re like Georgia, like, you know, like Arizona. Like Pennsylvania, etcetera, and if they went with with Trumpian candidates. Okay. So speaking of one of the races that Again, you and I are both probably still struggling to figure out what are the new rules in politics?

Because I mean, things that were would have been disqualifying in any other election cycle might not be who knows anymore. Doctor Oz has been underperforming. He has turned out to be a terrible candidate in in in Pennsylvania. He’s trailing in the polls, and he’s apparently made a kind of an interesting, a quote to a really interesting place. Tactical decision that he’s gonna go after Federman’s health.

And apparently, this has now become a new big thing. Of course, John Federman had a stroke. He’s back on the the campaign trail. He clearly has some issues, you know, he will pause. He will miss some words here and there.

It’s a little bit awkward, but He’s been doing great on social media, but there’s clearly an issue there. And one of the questions it was, would doctor Oz go there? Would he would he go after John Federman’s health? He actually put out a statement saying, you know, if John Fitterman had ever eaten a salad, he wouldn’t have had he would never have had a stroke. And people are going, that’s really sick man, you know, and yet the doctor Oz and his circle are going no.

Let’s double down on all of that. So is this going to backfire or is this the I am a doctor, and I am sorry to tell you this John Federman is just not up for this job. But how’s that gonna play? Well, that’s his

spokesman to put out that which I just I just wanna mention because as we talk about all of the, you know, ways that the culture has been debates in our political culture, like, that was not the type of thing that, you know, in my day. Spokespeople were putting out. Those it’s one thing to do that on a debate stage candidate to candidate, but just gonna have spokesperson freelancing, attacking somebody’s stroke in in such personal terms. It’s just a different kind of world. But The I I don’t I think it’s the sign of a desperate campaign.

Yeah. There’s an interesting poll came

out. You know what I mean?

Republicans were pushing this poll. And it had it had eyes only down four, you know, because he’d been down more in a lot of the other polls. So a lot of my former colleagues were pushing this on social media. But if you look at the poll deeper, it was interesting. It had the same poll had Trump up, five, I think, or six in Pennsylvania.

So which seems very hard to imagine that he’s up five or six against Biden, but who knows he lost as we all know? So us trailing Trump by ten. You know, no matter what you think about, the ballot number, it shows that there really are some Trump Federman voters out there. Right? And so it’s like how is Oz gonna be able to get back and and you assume that’s probably Obama Trump Federman.

Right? Like, how do you get back into that, like, kind of blue collar guy, you know, that is maybe not as as economically conservative, probably pro choice, or, you know, if we’re stereotyping a broad brush. And and how do you get at them? You know, maybe this sort of trumpian domination trolling is the path because, like, Oz is just such an upbeat, you know, Hollywood guy. Right?

Like, he’s never gonna be able to outfederman Federman in in there. So is there a different way that he can dominate him? Is there a different way that he can kind of weaken him? And I think this is a sign that they don’t really know how to do that except for, you know, I think that they’ll go very hard on the criminal justice issue with ads and and probably trying to troll him on his health. I expect we’ll see more of this.

Yeah. I mean, there there’s a way of doing

it, definitely. And, you know, perhaps, cleverly, I I don’t sense that they are going to go that way. No. Okay. So I’m gonna take a deep breath here because I’m gonna I’m almost exhausted talking about it now.

I was wondering if you’re gonna skip it. We got this far in the podcast. Sounds like maybe Charlie can’t do

it. Because I I I I have to tell you that my sense is that the progressive Twitter verse does not understand does not have a feel. The way the student loan forgiveness is playing out here among swing voters And it strikes me as a significant own goal, bad politics, bad policy, you know, how I feel about this. And we can argue all that. It it the Republicans are reacting like they’ve just been given a big big hunk of capnib.

And when I say it’s an own goal, Biden was on a role. They had just passed this inflation reduction act. There were a lot of things that were, you know, giving them a little bit of momentum. This gives the Republicans exactly what they wanted. Yeah.

And so where do you come down on this? I I just think it’s unfortunate on so many levels which we can get into. But what do you think? I

just wanna table for a second the policy. I do I do wanna get to that because I have a little bit more mixed views than I think you and James did. I was in the yesterday’s podcast, not not totally four, but more mix. I also wanna get to the policy at the end. The politics, there there are two things here that I just I would implore people who are very big cheerleaders of this to understand as far as the political reality.

Number one is just we learned. We we went through this. Like, we’ve been talking about how great Biden was doing at dividing the opposition and uniting his own side. This is just a fundamental political strategic move. Right?

You you wedge the other side, you unite your own side, that is the best way to, you know, to expand your political base and and to do well in elections. This is the simplest way to understand politics. Biden wasn’t doing that in twenty twenty one. Right? BBB was dividing his own side with human infrastructure, right, and he wasn’t taking these easy wins.

On infrastructure, on other things. Data changed this year. We’ve been complimenting about, you know, the the gay marriage and contraception votes. Abortion. We’ve been talking about Ad nauseam.

The the infrastructure build, the smaller BBB build, United his side, here we are back again. Going for an issue that divides his own side. And you have all these Democratic politicians that are coming having to speak out against it. People who I in my life, who are Biden voters, people that are part of the Biden coalition, don’t like this. Maybe they shouldn’t feel resentful.

We can talk about the merits about this in a second, but they do. So if you’re

if you are slightly demoralizing certain people on your own side and exciting others, So you’re dividing your own side. And everyone on the other side is excited. You’re giving them

something to talk about besides Mar a Lago, besides abortion, that’s just a sign that it’s not a political winner. Right? Like it maybe it will maybe it will motivate a certain class of person to come out to vote in the midterms I’ll give a little boost in certain places. But I just at a fundamental basic analysis of politics, I I just don’t see how you can look at this and say, okay. Well, that’s a clear win.

Because it’s not. So that’s not political. And Well, I

I I think you’re absolutely right, and you’re seeing this play out here, you know, Axios is reporting, you know, you know, Republicans have already launched an adblitz mocking the Biden student loan plan. I mean, they love this. This is from Axios. Republicans are confident the president’s plan will be politically problematic and are backing up their spin with paid advertising. That they’re gonna run ads on college football games, major league baseball games.

And the features a way through some mechanic and a landscaper talking about working extra shifts to help theater majors and business majors get out of debt. Landscaper in the spot says, Biden’s right. You should take my tax dollars to pay off your debts. My family will figure out how to get by with less. What’s more important if we spare college graduates many extra stress?

Mechanic follows up. Wanna be a struggling artist. College is on me. Okay. I understand all of the arguments that and a lot of what about is him?

Well, didn’t we forget this? And with that look, I I’m against

all of those all of that muting. I all of it. I do I do think it’s funny, otherwise, sometimes people do forget that it used to be conservatives, and I have a a lot of people in my feed that are like, well, what about wasn’t harp unfair? Wasn’t this giveaway? Yeah.

There wasn’t that giveaway fair. And I was, like, don’t you remember that that’s what we all are saying? Yeah.

We were on against that sort of thing. Okay. So, you know, this thing is very, very costly. I mean, this is gonna cost about a half trillion dollars. So it it is a big deal.

But also and to your point about the politics, As you know, there are really complicated hard to explain issues, and then there are easy to explain issues. Things like BBB and even the inflation reduction act are really complicated and difficult to explain. This is very easy, which makes it more deadly for people who say, I don’t see how this moves the needle. It definitely moves on so many different things without even getting into the the policy about all of this. So do I agree with your analysis?

And again, having just passed the inflation reduction act, this gives whether it’s true or not, gives Republicans a tremendous talking point about inflationary spending and it does feel like a pander to their own constituency to Biden voters. It walks like it looks like a pander. It walks like a pander. Maybe maybe in fact, it is a political pander. And it’s it’s got all the worst vibes.

I’m sorry. I

wanna add one of the negative thing before I get to the the elements of it that I I I think that maybe the Democrats can try to work with now that it’s happened. But I I think this is important, and I want people that supporters of this and could faith to listen to this because this matters. The legal part of this. Okay. I I didn’t go to Larry tribes class.

I’m not a constitutional lawyer. But, like, just it’s preposterous on its face that the president of the United States can buy Fiat, just pick a number out of the air, and determine this is the amount of number that we are going to forgive loans because we’re in an emergency. I we’re not an emergency. Like, there’s no reasonable definition of emergency that defines the situation that we’re in right now. Maybe we’re in a student loan crisis.

I wanna get to that in a second. But but this is not an acute emergency. This pandemic is the excuse, I guess, that they’re using. They can’t even really defend it. Nancy Pelosi didn’t sit said it wasn’t legal.

Jen Saki said it wasn’t legal. Like, it isn’t legal. And so if we’re gonna be part of a

Joe Biden said he can’t do this. Joe Biden himself said, I don’t have the power to do that without congressional action. He said that. Yeah.

So if we’re gonna be a year ago, democracy, pro constitutional democracy coalition. Okay? We can’t just say, oh, well, we can do a little soft autocratic action from the executive as long as he’s nice, and as long as the as long as the thing that he’s doing is helpful. Even if you think it’s helpful, and you think it’s good and you disagree with some of our political analysis. You know, just because they did it doesn’t mean we can do it.

Right? Like, there has to be some limits that responsible people put on, you know, what an executive branch is allowed to do. And and I really don’t want the, you know, the next Republican president to to build a wall or fund some child separation internment camps, like and and be able to say, well, we’re in an emergency, and I can just do this, and it’s the same justification that Joe Biden used. And and obviously, they might do it anyway. Blah blah blah.

But but I’m sorry. It’s just like, well, you have to at least even if you like this, you have to at least admit that this is not the way to do it. Okay? So I agree with you. However, I think we’ve already crossed that line.

Yeah. I mean, I

think we’re we’re we’re in this spiral where people actually like, if if I want it if if it’s something I favor, then then yes, absolutely presidential fiat. You know, using some sort of, you know, stretching the emergency powers as far as they possibly can to get what I want. So you have a president who now and again, for people who who think that we’re being unfair here, I think Joe Biden himself was very, very skeptical. Nancy Pelosi said very clearly, we need congressional action. And when we talk about this in terms of democracy, what you just said is not irrelevant.

This is really, really important. Because if we get to a point where any president of either party can say because I declare this emergency, I am going to unilaterally declare this policy spend trillions of dollars or ban this or legalize this, then we have become, you know, some form of maybe it’s a soft talker see. Maybe it’s a harder autocracy, but it is not a constitutional republic in which congress has the power of the purse strings, and Congress makes these you know, we we actually change the laws. So be careful what you wish for, but I think we cross this. I just think that, you know, you saw this with Obama, you saw this with Trump, you’re seeing it with Biden the next time around, you know, there will be the, you know, use this as a precedent and the cycle will continue, and then everybody will switch teams.

Like, no. We want the president to rule, you know, by by fear. No. We that’s terrible, the president rules by fear. And the only distinction is if the other guys in the White House, you take one position when your guys in the White House, you you know, I mean, this is where we’re at now.

And I’m and I’m sorry. Now — Yeah. — in terms of the crisis, they’re using the pandemic, or they’re using war powers, or just, you know,

they’re using the pandemic. I will and the war they’re going back to the opposed nine eleven —

I know. —

justification for I forget what the, you know, grace was given. First, a certain category, people after nine eleven at go back and look. But that’s it’s a post nine eleven federal guidance that that now they are updating and saying, well, you know, because of the pandemic. We can do this. I was just like, come on.

I I don’t I mean, it’s one thing. I don’t you know, again, it’s like, stop collecting interest. I think that there may be other ways to do this. It is important. The other thing is they don’t have the votes.

One of the this is the other frustrating thing. One of the reason they’re not going to a Congress does not do the filibuster. They don’t have the Democratic folks to do this. Right? And so, again, I I just think that’s a sign that that that they didn’t have the goods here.

And, you know, maybe they could’ve come up with something else that that did have it. I I do wanna just say this about the policy that is because I think we’ve all been very you know, bulwark with large has been pretty harsh on this for good reason. But I think that something that does get lost and the Democrats are gonna have to try the message which is much more challenging and complicated to message than what Republicans have to your bumper sticker point. Is that, like, there there are a lot you know, the student loan system is a total fucking scam. And it is completely different than it was forty years ago.

Right? And when a lot of the boomers who are complaining about this, you know, we’re going to college. Like, the price is through the roof. The federal government has a lot of responsibility for this, but so do the you know, the, you know, basically, loan sharks, you know, level rates that that they’re making people pay for some of these student loans. And and not this is not know, most of people getting helped by this are, you know, actually people that didn’t have a pair, you know, this is not Lawrence tribes class that’s being helped by Right?

Like, it’s mostly people that didn’t have a parachute. I just think about in my life. Right? Like, I can think of three people in my life that, like, didn’t know what they want to do in college. Went to colleges that were told that they should.

You know, we’re put where we got parents and guidance counselors pushing people into college and and, you know, didn’t do particularly well, decided to go to some alternative kind of school, culinary or whatever. Two of these three, you know, had had a safety net in in their parents. Right? They were able to kind of fund this you know, sort of dithering through the early twenties and didn’t come out with huge debt. One person, I was just hearing from yesterday.

Have kind of a similar path, didn’t have that safety net. Right? Ended up having to drop out of college, ended up working in restaurants. And, you know, this basically clears out their debt. Like, that person is not a college grad that went and learned gender studies.

Like, they did let all of the, like, Republicans say that we want. They, like, tried to learn a trade, went to culinary school, like, we’re sat we’re sitting on two years of debt from you know, the state school they went to. And then culinary schools alone are ridiculous. And, you know, now you’re working in a restaurant and — Yeah. — and, you know, that takes right.

And I I’m sympathetic to this. Right? I I just I I really do. I really do. Okay.

But I but I think this is this is where you have the real policy flaw. I have written multiple whole books about the higher education cartel, about the incredibly bloated cost of college education, the bloated bureaucracies, the bloated spending, the escalation, of tuition costs way beyond the rate of inflation. That is a genuine crisis of cost and affordability This does not address that. This includes no reform of higher education. This does nothing for future students who will borrow money except to create moral hazard.

What this does is it’s a one time giveaway that actually will make things worse because it’s a signal, hey, there’s this free money Colleges have responded to every single of free money by doing what, by making it more expensive. And especially now that you’re forgiving debt, it might actually induce some students to go deeper into debt in the future. So this it’s regressive. It’s ineffective. It might be counterproductive about this.

But there is a genuine crisis here about the cost and accessibility of higher education that they that if you’re throwing around a half trillion dollars, you could have done some, you could have, you know, created, you know, a a pathway. For more people to community colleges or to these trade schools or to the culinary school or a safety net for people who are genuinely in need. And in terms of the stories about people who are deeply in-depth, we could have a future president using the exact same logic and powers to unilaterally say, okay, you know, student debt was bad, but why not do mortgage debt? Eleven trillion dollars. How about auto loan debt?

One and a half trillion dollars. You wanna talk about a rip off? How about credit card debt? You know, you wanna talk you talk about loan sharks You know what? There’s a loan chart?

You have a credit card? Do you know much interest you’re paying on that? I mean, how in in twenty twenty two? Do lenders. In the current environment, when when interest rates were like what?

You know, you know, point, you know, five they were charging you, Kim Miller, and me, they were charging us twenty four percent. And I didn’t hear Elizabeth Warren out there saying, you know what? People are really struggling under their credit card debt. They’re struggling under medical debt. We ought to wipe out those.

Yeah.

We’re a Democratic congressman, who I like, a a lot, actually, Jake, a achen clause out of Massachusetts said this basically yesterday. I would rather we did medical debt.

Well, exam I’ve been saying this for in terms of real need, this feels like and when I say pander before, when people are gonna blow back on, you know, basically, look, why did this happen? Because they were convinced that this would motivate the progressive base. This would motivate young voters. Well, that’s a payoff to voters. That’s not a public policy that will solve the problem of higher education and who should go to college, how do we connect people with their education?

This is just doing it. So I find it’s to be very, very frustrating. And it’s one of the reasons why so many other Democrats, like as you pointed out, including Tim Ryan, the congressman from Ohio, who was running for US Senate against J. D. Vance who understands exactly how this is gonna play in Ohio and said, look, You know, a college education should be about opening opportunities, but waiving debt for those already on the trajectory of financial security.

Sends the wrong message to millions of Ohioans without a degree working just as hard to make ends me. Tim Ryan knows This is a political loser, but he also knows that it’s a policy shit show as well. Yes.

And I Yeah. No. You’re right. And I know. And I’m just giving you my last thing about this because I I hate just just beat it, but it’s true.

And there could have been other creative ways. Like, great. For for example, what if it was just to say, you know, we’re not we’re gonna stop actually collecting interest. On, you know, on these sort of debts out of those. So you couldn’t so then Republicans and others couldn’t go out and say, oh, actually, you’re forgiving these debts.

Like, no. Actually, these people everyone’s still gonna have to pay back the principal on their debt, but these interest rates were out of control, and this was predatory, and the government shouldn’t be complicit in this, and we should be undercutting actually cartel. Right? And that’s just I you know, maybe there are reasons that couldn’t work. I’m just saying there are other ideas.

The five percent element of this, I actually really like, which is, like, you you only have to pay back a certain percent of your salary if you’re up to two hundred twenty five. That was great. And they should do it through Congress, but that’s a great policy. I think

I I agree with you. Yeah.

I really like that, bossy. And then the last thing, okay, and then I’m gonna promise us that branding is going up to two hundred fifty your family, I pulled this up on Google. I pulled this up on Google. That’s the ninety eight percentile. You you know, the democrats, like, you know, in all of these, wasn’t the one who used to rant about people in the one percent.

That are taking, you know, that are getting a a fair deal. This is people in the two percent that that are getting this. Right? Like, why did it go up so high? Who is for?

I just Who is for that? Going up to seventy five k, I get you know, I’m sure then there’ll be some people to get a radio who are, you know, who are in huge debt, who who who make a hundred twenty five k. You know, they’re challenges to all these things. But again, as a talking point, going all the way up to a quarter million, anyone. So so I I just think that they’re way I’m I I just wanna my final message is I wanna say, like, I’m I’m sympathetic to this.

It is a scam. We should be doing something to help people get out from under it. This was designed in a way that has a lot of flaws politically and legally and just on the policy. Okay. Can

I make a point of personal privilege, please do. As you know, but maybe the listeners don’t know, I’m gonna be taking a little bit of time off next week because I I have I have the alignment of the planets right now. I mean, next week is really packed. I’ll be I’ll be back after Labor Day, but I’m not I mean, I’m not just going to sit on the beach. So why not?

Well, because I can’t. Well, I will do a little bit of that. I will. I will. Because for the first time in three years, my French grandkids came over from France and so they are here and we haven’t seen them in three years.

So we have the French family here. Here in Wisconsin. Next week, we will all fly to Washington DC. Where in a period of four days, a number of things will happen. The French grandkids will meet their cousins for the very first time.

Grandkids for the very, very first time they’ve been doing, you know, FaceTime stuff, but they’ve never actually met their cousins. They weren’t born the last time they were here, you know, about, you know, two and one. Then, we arrive on Wednesday, Thursday morning, by Thursday morning, another granddaughter will be born. While we are there. Okay?

Gosh. And that could happen today. But the latest that will happen will be Thursday. So everyone will be there. They will they will be able to potentially meet the new baby while we’re here.

And then in over the weekend, my younger son gets married. Oh my god. Yeah. And so the extended family will be together for the very first time within days of meeting and the babies, so we have the baby, the reunion, all of this is going to be happening. In a very compact next few days, so I thought this was a good time to maybe take off.

So for people with Thank

you, Charlie. I’m getting chills for you. Can we can you, you know, put some little videos of the grand You need after this black or something?

Well, exact So before people who might think that I’m malignant doing this, then I’m just gonna be off next week, not gonna do the podcast, but people will be filling in have some of the, you know, people from the kids table, you know, coming in and feeling

on that point. I’m in a couple of days. And I have I have a couple of good guests lined up. I think people are gonna really enjoy it. I am very much looking forward to that.

So I will see

you on the other side of Labor Day, mister Miller.

Charlie, really enjoy it. Enjoy the time with those grand kitties. And I’ll see you in a couple weeks. Thank you

so much, and thank you all for listening to today’s Bulwark podcast. I’m Charlie Sykes. And they still have a podcast. It’s going to be other folks, but I will talk to you after Labor Day. Have a great holiday.

You’re worried about the economy. Inflation is high. Your paycheck doesn’t cover as much as it used to, and we live under the threat of a looming recession. And sure you’re doing okay, but you could be doing better. The afford anything podcast explains the economy and the market detailing how to make wise choices on the way you spend and invest.

Afford anything, talks about how to avoid common pitfalls, how to refine your mental models, and how to think about how to think Make smarter choices and build a better life. Avoid anything wherever you listen.