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Tim Miller: Sad Turtle Mitch

August 19, 2022
Notes
Transcript

McConnell sounds like a man who’s lost control of his party, rising MAGA star Kari Lake has taken a raving antisemite under her wing, DeSantis loses in court (again) — and Dan Crenshaw knows Liz is right. Your weekend pod with Tim Miller and Charlie Sykes.

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This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors and omissions. Ironically, the transcription service has particular problems with the word “bulwark,” so you may see it mangled as “Bullard,” “Boulart,” or even “bull word.” Enjoy!
  • Speaker 1
    0:00:08

    Okay. We made it. It is Friday. Welcome to the Bulwark weekend podcast. I’m Charlie Sykes.
  • Speaker 1
    0:00:15

    This is Tim Miller. Tim, welcome back to the podcast. Hello,
  • Speaker 2
    0:00:18

    Charlie. We had a vibrant green room that people missed out on. So
  • Speaker 1
    0:00:22

    it was like
  • Speaker 2
    0:00:23

    I’m I’m feeling like I’m just ready to the ground running here on this Friday morning.
  • Speaker 1
    0:00:27

    Okay. So, you know, target rich environment. Once again, we could talk about Liz Cheney. We could talk about Dan Krenshaw. We could talk about Alex Jones, Rhonda Santos.
  • Speaker 1
    0:00:34

    Mitch McConnell suggesting, hey, I may actually blow this senate race, interesting polls out of Wisconsin. Larry Hogan calling bullshit on the nominee for governor in his own state. Kerry Lake talking about BDE, Okay. You you get none of the historical or even musical references
  • Speaker 3
    0:00:55

    that I
  • Speaker 1
    0:00:55

    make. Okay. But but I’m guessing you got the BDE reference that went right over my head or something. Yeah. Pete
  • Speaker 2
    0:01:03

    Davidson has BDE. Did you not know that? Even know who Pete Davidson is? I do know who Pete Davidson is. I don’t know why anyone would think he has BDE.
  • Speaker 2
    0:01:11

    Yeah. Cassari underground, they said that he did. Yeah. It was kind of a a little Internet discussion. A little cred there.
  • Speaker 2
    0:01:18

    Yeah. Big big dick energies. What it is. Not dick Cheney. We had a big we did have some big big dick chain the energy the past few weeks.
  • Speaker 2
    0:01:26

    But, you know, that’s what it stands for. And I did find it kind of weird that the party that’s so concerned about grooming Carrie Lake and her speech was like, you should talk to your kids about this if you don’t get the if you’re like, Charlie, you don’t get the reference. Talk to your kids. It’s gone I’m gone. Oh, really?
  • Speaker 2
    0:01:41

    Yeah. Talk to your kids about about big penises. That sounds that sounds totally not at all weird or gloomy.
  • Speaker 1
    0:01:48

    And, Daddy, why do so many Republicans like Donald Trump? Well, Johnny — Right. — because he has big dick energy according to Cary Lake. And, you know, so This is this is why she’s a rock star. This is why she’s a rock star, and Liz Cheney isn’t.
  • Speaker 1
    0:02:04

    So okay. Before we get into the the really cool stuff, my absolute favorite story of the day that I could actually spend all day just just reading over and over again. I I could spend the whole podcast reading it aloud. This Washington Post story, Russia’s spies misread Ukraine and misled Kremlin as war loomed. And it turns out the spies, you know, suck as badly as the Russian military did.
  • Speaker 1
    0:02:30

    And it, you know, tells these this dazzling details that that these these Russian spies, it’s the FSB operatives. They were so confident that Russia would just roll through and they would be greeted as liberators in Kiev, that they were arranging for safe houses and accommodations and installments apartments, and and they told some of their their molds there. You might wanna leave just shortly. But but leave your keys because we’re gonna need your stuff. And my favorite line in the whole story is you’d go through how they completely screwed this up, how they got it wrong, how they misled everybody, how they had no idea the way the Ukrainians would respond, or President Zelensky would respond, And then there’s this line in the Washington Post story.
  • Speaker 1
    0:03:16

    The FSB did not respond to requests for comment. Call them. I just you know, hey. What did I could you just imagine, you know, in the in the nineteen sixties? I’m calling up the KGB.
  • Speaker 1
    0:03:31

    KGB Public Relations. Hey, we have this story about that you tried to murder somebody with a poison tipped arrow in London. Would you care to augment.
  • Speaker 2
    0:03:41

    Oleg. Is can I speak to Oleg in the public affairs department? That’s pretty good. This is like a spies like us. Type thing.
  • Speaker 2
    0:03:48

    This is a movie reference we could maybe meet in the middle on. That’s the nineteen eighties, you know. Right? Right? That’s a a cultural overlap.
  • Speaker 2
    0:03:55

    See,
  • Speaker 1
    0:03:55

    people don’t know what we’re talking about. We were I actually was with Nathan. What I regarded as a somewhat witty reference to something that happened in the sound of music and you just completely blanked on it. Of course. I mean, it’s, you know
  • Speaker 2
    0:04:09

    Right. I mean There’s sound there’s a sound of music in color or did they have to, like, recolorize it? Just
  • Speaker 1
    0:04:14

    Wait a minute. Shoot me now. I mean, just just right now. The hills are a lot. So anyone that knows Tim or, you know, goes to one of his many book events for his New York Times best selling book.
  • Speaker 1
    0:04:26

    Why? We did it? You know, what would really be cool is, you know, you raise your hand at the back and, you know, Tim says, yes. Lady in the back and you stand up with, like, the boombox, put it over your head and play, the hills are alive. Right?
  • Speaker 1
    0:04:41

    Just just because This is a little troll. Just because Tim needs to know this. Okay. I’m not gonna I’m not gonna get go too too far down the rabbit hole, a concept I tried the line about, and now introducing the Vontrap family singers. And he didn’t get it at all.
  • Speaker 1
    0:04:56

    Okay? So Hey. So Mitch McConnell says that basically implying, you know, guys, we not actually win the senate and kind of very obliquely raising the question of maybe it’s a little bit about the candidate quality. You you know, I I know it’s it’s it’s always dangerous talk about the vibe shift. But it is interesting.
  • Speaker 1
    0:05:15

    It is now past the middle of August. And right now, Republican knives are out. You can tell there’s a lot of whispering and off the record, you know. Hey, the reason that we’re gonna lose is because this guy screwed us up or this guy. So giving your take on all of this that they are now admitting publicly that maybe it was not a real political genius mood to nominate, I don’t know, Hershel Walker and doctor Oz and folks like that.
  • Speaker 2
    0:05:42

    Yeah. The Mitch McConnell video clip, if people haven’t seen it, I’d recommend just kind of putting that on the Google machine because this is sad turtle Mitch. Right? Like, sometimes you feel like Mitch is doing his chishai or cap kinda clever sort of thing. Right?
  • Speaker 2
    0:05:57

    And and, you know, he says, oh, you know, he saying, I don’t know if we’re gonna win, but but maybe it’s part of some, you know, three-dimensional chess that he’s decided that he’s playing at that moment. This is now what was happening. This was a beaten down man who has lost control of his party, and it was not long ago that he was at the peak of his powers. He was blocking Marek Garland from this Green Court. He was choosing candidates in the senate primaries.
  • Speaker 2
    0:06:21

    He was making sure that the complete crazies were you know, we’re we’re either not running or we’re defeated because he was working in tandem with Donnie Trump to do that. And they had about two cycles where they avoided you know, the classic, I’m not a witch, Todd Aiken situation because, you know, Mitch McConnell, like, held the reins tight. And he’s totally lost the reins. And you can just tell that he he he feels it. He’s down about it.
  • Speaker 2
    0:06:50

    And he’s right. And they’re gonna lease seats on the table and we we’ve talked a lot about warnock and us really great ad from our friends of the Republican accountability project. It’s just dark about Walker putting a gun to his ex’s head and threatening to kill her. You know? And then Walker puts out this Rambly — Oh, comedy.
  • Speaker 2
    0:07:08

    — a lot of room time. There’s
  • Speaker 1
    0:07:10

    lack of room
  • Speaker 2
    0:07:11

    time nowadays on that. There’s stigmatizing mental health. Issues. And she’s like, this is not a okay. I’m sensitive mental health issues.
  • Speaker 2
    0:07:19

    This is not synchronizing that. This is you are threat you are threatening murder. Like, this is domestic violence. You know, this is, like, the the cops. I know, Hershel thinks he’s a fake cop, but the cop should have been coming to his house.
  • Speaker 2
    0:07:30

    Anyway, plenty of been discussed about Mammoth and Hershel. But here’s the other thing, and I I’ve got some coming next week on one of these races. But New Hampshire and and Arizona, don’t get talked about as much. Right. And and In bulk yeah.
  • Speaker 2
    0:07:45

    Blake Masters in Arizona. And then in in New Hampshire, it’s a general bold look. Who is the masteriano type. In both of those states, there was a popular center right governor, Doug Ducey and Sunu. Which of the senator brothers?
  • Speaker 2
    0:07:59

    Is it Chris? Yeah. And that’s the governor. And and both of them would have been heavy favorites in the senate. Right?
  • Speaker 2
    0:08:05

    So it’s a little
  • Speaker 1
    0:08:06

    It’s up to pick up Democratic.
  • Speaker 2
    0:08:08

    Two pickups right there. Yeah. Plus two. Yep. That you’re leaving two on the table now.
  • Speaker 2
    0:08:14

    Potentially. And maybe you win one of those still. So it’s not just Walker and us. Right? Like, this is something that’s happening across the board in senate races.
  • Speaker 2
    0:08:23

    And, you know, McConnell of four years ago, this never would have happened. Right? Like, this he never would have allowed to But I I wouldn’t I don’t wanna say gummies, but in this mid term environment, do see in Sunu would have been very heavy favorites. I think in in their states. And so, you know, McConnell knows this.
  • Speaker 2
    0:08:41

    Right? And so he he’s getting embarrassed every day by the crudety tag guy and by Russian roulette walker. He knows that he left two other seats on the table and and he’s having to watch John Federman, like, dance on his grave every day. And and I I I think that this guy is beaten down by now I have I have a little bit more of a rain cloudy take on the senate coming later in the pod, but no matter what actually happens, McConnell knows that he’s not in power and he’s gonna be far from what the number could have been. You know, even if they eke out a fifty one seat senate majority.
  • Speaker 2
    0:09:17

    You know, he’s he’s still gonna know that that’s not not where it should have been. Okay.
  • Speaker 1
    0:09:21

    What’s the ring clock?
  • Speaker 2
    0:09:22

    Well, I just and and so wanna I got one
  • Speaker 1
    0:09:25

    I thought you were gonna troll me on Wisconsin.
  • Speaker 2
    0:09:27

    Yeah. Okay. So I’ve got one more suniness before I get to the rain cloud. Okay. I am trolling you.
  • Speaker 2
    0:09:31

    You’ve
  • Speaker 1
    0:09:31

    been
  • Speaker 2
    0:09:31

    on you’ve been on multiple times with yeah. About how Mandelbarns has no chance. Yep. And every time, come on, I’m not I’m not predicting Mandelbarns is gonna win every time. I I just I sort of chime in really quick, and I say, hey, Charlie.
  • Speaker 2
    0:09:44

    I’m not so sure about this. I’m not sure about this. Yeah. Evers, and you need to start coming Evers numbers. Are are still pretty good.
  • Speaker 2
    0:09:51

    He might be a little wet noodle or whatever, but the numbers are still there. Barnes’s numbers have continued to be solid. Throughout this whole primary. I know he hasn’t taken that much on the negative side yet. Two pulls out this week, one Marquette, plus seven, Barnes, one fox, plus four.
  • Speaker 2
    0:10:07

    Mhmm. So I think that if you look at that race, Barnes, it’s dual. It was you know this? I don’t have to lecture you about Wisconsin, but it’s not Wisconsin hasn’t elected. Some kinda kooky progressives before.
  • Speaker 2
    0:10:18

    Right? Like, the the Wisconsin has a little bit of a weird progressive strain in certain parts of the state. It will see. I mean, whether Barnes could do it Johnson, obviously, we don’t need to, you know, this listener, this podcast know about all Johnson’s weaknesses. So I think it’s possible.
  • Speaker 2
    0:10:33

    My rain cloud point about
  • Speaker 1
    0:10:35

    all of those. I I I need to weigh in on this. Okay, please. You just can’t go past me because I I did sort of snark at you when when you sit back at the hook. No.
  • Speaker 1
    0:10:42

    Okay. So, yeah, there’s there’s no question about it that this race is is competitive in the middle of August, and it may continue to be. Those poll numbers, I think the smart take on that is that they say less about Mandela Barnes and they do about the unique unpopularity and toxicity of of of Ron Johnson. Now, you know, six years ago back in twenty sixteen, he was also way down in the August poll and, you know, there’s a lot of people, you know, point Republicans here in Wisconsin will say, well, you know, the market poll was wrong in August two thousand in in two thousand sixteen. But Since then, Johnson’s disapproval rating has just, you know, continued to rise and it is solid.
  • Speaker 1
    0:11:24

    He’s got think of forty seven percent disapproval ring. So he’s got a he’s got a boat anchor there, which may mean that despite all the things that I’ve said about Mandela Barnes, he’s going to be competitive. Now the other point though is they are about to drop about twenty million dollars worth of Apple Research on Barnes who is not really well known right now. He’s got a very good image. He’s very, very likable.
  • Speaker 1
    0:11:47

    Who knows how that will actually play out? But I think Johnson’s vulnerabilities are popping up and this, you know, is worth watching. In the governor’s race, Tony Evers should be dead man walking the Democrat, but the the Republicans have nominated a candidate who is taking positions like, yes, I’m in favor of an abortion ban without an exception for rape and incest. And that same market poll showed something like I think it was eighty eight percent of voters go, no. We think there should be an exception for rape and incest.
  • Speaker 1
    0:12:14

    So I don’t know, Tim, I don’t have a PhD in political science, but that seems like it might be a problem for the Republican nominee. I didn’t hear
  • Speaker 2
    0:12:22

    you right, Tim, in there, but it was kind of, like, a subtext but No. No. No. It
  • Speaker 1
    0:12:26

    does have a chance. What I was gonna say was not that you’re right, Tim, but that I might be wrong. Okay.
  • Speaker 2
    0:12:32

    I actually
  • Speaker 1
    0:12:33

    might be I I wanna put this full line here that that I might be wrong about this, but Katie,
  • Speaker 2
    0:12:39

    can we get an audiogram if I might be wrong? Can sort of like a If you can flip it, I might be wrong. I might be wrong. But
  • Speaker 1
    0:12:45

    on the other hand, I’ve seen this before the sort of summer irrational exuberance. And as you get closer to the section, there’s a break, and we’ll see which direction they break. But right now, this is this is competitive. So, you know, Mitch McConnell is looking across the board. And, you know, he is he’s seeing that this is not remotely the wave.
  • Speaker 1
    0:13:05

    And I I think this is part of the problem the Republicans had. They figured, this is gonna be such a wave. We can be as stupid and crazy and, you know, and and, you know, can spiritual minded and bigoted as as we want because it won’t matter because we’re going to win no matter what. And now it’s like, holy shit. No.
  • Speaker 1
    0:13:24

    Maybe it’s not going to be a wave. And maybe crazy is not a winning strategy.
  • Speaker 2
    0:13:30

    For sure. And I have one more positive for the Democrats that I wanna get to rain cloud. But I think this ties directly to what you’re the abortion thing here is where it has become such such an issue in a place like was constant where I think it is really gonna matter. Right? Because we’re on the same ballot now, the senate race and the governor’s race.
  • Speaker 2
    0:13:46

    And if people are looking at this ballot and they see Michaels, This is a purple state, but it has a deep red legislature. And so there’s maybe three or four states that are like this where there is a massive real life policy outcome difference that could happen depending on who wins the governor race in November. Right? And so if you’re a voter in Wisconsin, you’re looking at Michaels and Evers. It could be the difference between status quo, abortion access versus Complete band — Yeah.
  • Speaker 4
    0:14:15

    — like that.
  • Speaker 2
    0:14:16

    Missouri style, one week, no exceptions. Right? And that is is is I think a very big motivator in a way that will it remains to be seen whether that that will also be motivator in some of these others kind of states house races such such like that. But I think it’s gonna be a very big motivator for Democrats. And so that impacts the turnout.
  • Speaker 2
    0:14:37

    And then it also, you know, we’re we’re in a time with very little tickets splitting. And Ron Johnson isn’t the person that really attracts a lot of tickets splitting. So do you imagine a lot of Evers Johnson voters Not really. Like, that’s kinda hard to imagine. That’s me.
  • Speaker 2
    0:14:49

    Be a little easy to imagine a Brian Kemp or Rafael WarNock voter. Like, who that person is? Who is the Tony Evers Ron Johnson voter? I’m sure they exist. I’m sure Sarah can find them for the focus group.
  • Speaker 2
    0:14:58

    But I I think that’s gonna be a very small number. Also, to just shout out the focus group podcast, you did with her Barnes is doing a pretty good job in his pro and his positive ads of speaking to the the swing voter. Obviously, he’s got these negatives coming down in his head, but he’s his his paid media is not he’s not running as like a cookie. Like, squad person.
  • Speaker 1
    0:15:20

    Okay. Isn’t it? That’s correct. Right.
  • Speaker 2
    0:15:22

    All of that said, the polls, we just have to be honest about this. For two straight cycles, have really undercounted Republicans. Thank you. And I think particularly in Midwestern states. And so if you looked at Which Wisconsin is one,
  • Speaker 1
    0:15:37

    Right.
  • Speaker 2
    0:15:38

    Okay. So on on average, I think I’m gonna in the Senate last time, it was a six point miss. So — Okay. — the polls show Mandela up four and seven, you know, that basically like, let’s just say it’s a six point miss. That’s a close race both ways, which which, again, I think is better than maybe some Democrats would potentially thought about that race.
  • Speaker 2
    0:15:57

    That’s still good, but maybe it’s I don’t think it’s quite as good for Democrats as the polls look. Right now. And I don’t know if pollsters have an answer for this, really. I I I think that there is what my sense for what’s happening here is that the types of Republicans who answer polls kind of like the types of Republicans who use the mail for voting are different than the types of Republicans who show up. I think the types of Republicans who answer polls are different from the ones that don’t.
  • Speaker 2
    0:16:22

    Needs like super MAGA. I think Bill Gates is putting microchips in your body. Tight people are not answering polls and it’s making it really hard. For pollsters to get a sense for the electorate in particular in these wider, less college educated states like Wisconsin. So anyway, that’s my one ring cloud on and otherwise pretty sunny outlook for Democrats in a Senate.
  • Speaker 1
    0:16:44

    One of the things that that I think is, you know, we we keep talking about a lot and and maybe it’s become tedious. Which is the the the crazification of the Republican Party and how they really have decided that they will pay no price for it. So, for example, you know, Rhonda Santos, the great heir apparent, is not blinking about going and campaigning for nudge jobs, election deniers like Terry Lake Arizona or Doug Mastriano in Pennsylvania even though, you know, Jewish leaders are saying governor, why are you hanging out with with a guy like Doug Mastriano? You have a lease to Fonic who has embraced a candidate named Carl Paladino. He’s been around for a while running for Congress.
  • Speaker 1
    0:17:20

    He goes on a radio show saying that Merrick Garland should probably be executing duted. Just kidding.
  • Speaker 2
    0:17:25

    Listen Paladino. This is a fashion science. Listen, he’s the one that did a lot of, like, Michelle Obama monkey stuff. Sure. Like, really?
  • Speaker 2
    0:17:31

    Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Roger Stone’s guy, I think.
  • Speaker 2
    0:17:35

    Real class act. And
  • Speaker 1
    0:17:36

    so speaking of unhinged bigots, you know, Kerry Lake, who is, you know, unhinged. But And again, there’s almost like there’s no fallout from this stuff. You know, Carrie Lake just endorsed a guy who’s running for the legislature in I think he’s running for the legislature. In Oklahoma. She just endorsed the guy named Jern Jackson, who tweeted, I am honored to be endorsed by the America first Trump Trump endorsed a warrior who drained the McCain’s in Arizona.
  • Speaker 1
    0:18:00

    Now the GOP nominee for governor in Arizona, Carrie Lay. Okay. So, Carrie Lay just endorsed this guy. Who is this long track record of saying things like, and and I kid you not. He says things like, I ain’t owned by the Jews.
  • Speaker 1
    0:18:13

    I’m not beholden to Jews or any other group. The Jews, Illuminati, COVID shots kill, Rothchild’s communist, woke protesters, social gospel, and Christ will chuck a bunch of stuff in the fire. I mean, this is this guy is so far over the line. I mean, there was a time when you would have locked him in the basement. And now Republican voters are nominating him.
  • Speaker 1
    0:18:35

    And people like Kerry Lake rising stars on the megawrit are endorsing him and it doesn’t cause the guys like we’re on the sanders to think, you know what? I want to be president. I don’t want to have anything to do with any of these freaking nuts jobs, any semites and vegas. And so this is what’s going on. I also in my newsletter today, and I don’t I’m not gonna play this year, have a a mash up that somebody put together.
  • Speaker 1
    0:18:57

    Basically, people on the right saying things, and and he he he tweeted out. He said, sometimes people give me shit for comparing the talking points of right wing media and politicians to those of the KKK. Because and you were all but rolling our eyes. That’s a little bit extreme. He puts them side by side, and they are saying the exact same thing.
  • Speaker 1
    0:19:16

    And so when we talk about the recklessness and the rush to the fringes on the part of leading Republicans, It’s it’s impossible to to to exaggerate. And here’s an example of it. And on the podcast yesterday, I had the Washington Post Philip Palm made a very, very provocative point. But Ron DeSantis, the Ron DeSantis
  • Speaker 2
    0:19:39

    Hold on. Before I get to Ron, can I just do this Jared Jackson thing for one second? Please.
  • Speaker 1
    0:19:42

    Yeah. I
  • Speaker 2
    0:19:43

    did not even realize this.
  • Speaker 1
    0:19:44

    Yeah. Yeah.
  • Speaker 2
    0:19:45

    Because I had seen the same tweet, I guess, I probably you probably retweet the about this fella that Carrie Lake endorsed. I just assumed he’s in Arizona. I didn’t look at it. It was, like, six AM out here. I didn’t look at it that closely.
  • Speaker 2
    0:19:57

    Yeah. He’s in why is she endorsing state senate candidates in Oklahoma? And maybe this should have been a topic for the Pete Wayne or podcast, which was really good. But I don’t think Christ will chuck the Jews into the fire. I don’t I don’t I’m not a I’m not a biblical scholar, but I’m not I don’t think that’s anywhere in the new testament.
  • Speaker 2
    0:20:16

    Shucking the Jews to hell. I’m not certain about that. But It is.
  • Speaker 1
    0:20:20

    It’s in the Gospel according to Infowars or something.
  • Speaker 2
    0:20:23

    Saying, yeah. Jesus’ parents are going to hell, I guess. Okay, vengeance sort of a master side type thing. The the thing about this is that The like, they they they decide that they’re not gonna suffer any penalty. Right.
  • Speaker 2
    0:20:41

    Right. And they need to be made to suffer a penalty. Anyway, this goes into that. Let’s let’s do the DeSantis thing because this ties into that. But I just I didn’t wanna let that go in front of it.
  • Speaker 2
    0:20:48

    Kerry Lake kind of just decided out of the blue. To go ahead and endorse an anti semite in Oklahoma, like, while she’s running for the governorship of a purple state. Okay.
  • Speaker 1
    0:20:57

    I wanna stay with this for because, okay, it’s a big country. Right? There are lots of states all over. Carri Lake is busy. Running for governor in Arizona.
  • Speaker 1
    0:21:08

    Right? And yet she looks at all of America and all of the congressional races. There’s like four hundred of them. There’s, you know, governor’s races. Senate race.
  • Speaker 2
    0:21:18

    Senate race, actually. Say, yeah. We’re into the tens of thousands.
  • Speaker 1
    0:21:21

    A little bit tens of thousands of legislative races, and she goes, this guy I’m going to reach out to this guy, one of the most vicious hair on fire and he’s some mites and bigots in the entire country, and she thinks she’ll pay no no price for it. Well, but this is strategy. And and Philip yesterday’s podcast, the Washington Post Philip, made up a really provocative point. I mean, the bottom line here is that Donald Trump was Bright Bart, and Rhonda Sanders is in full wars. And his point is that the formula that Donald Trump used was to appeal to the fringes.
  • Speaker 1
    0:22:02

    He was willing to say things that other Republicans wouldn’t. So what he was willing to do is he was willing to pair it back to the base, stuff they were hearing on Bright Barter Fox News in a way that No. The establishment Republicans never would, so that was his success. This was the key that he engaged in rally the far right that didn’t feel like they had a voice. Right?
  • Speaker 1
    0:22:23

    Well, DeSantis is doing the same thing. And I think Carrie Lake is and in fact, Carrie Lake is, because they’ve taken it one step further. But but DeSantis has taken it pretty far. He’s also playing to the same fringe in the same way that Donald Trump was Bright Bart in twenty sixteen to the establishment. He is now going for the infill wars crowd.
  • Speaker 1
    0:22:46

    And for people who are going, well, that’s just ridiculous that Rhonda Sanders is just a regular Republican. Rhonda Sanders knows exactly what he is doing, and it kind of pays off form. And this is what what bump writes. He said, you know, DeSantis is making a bet on beating Trump at his own game appeal. I don’t know if that’s possible, by the way.
  • Speaker 1
    0:23:03

    Appealing to an energizing the rightmost flank of the GOP by a relentless public focus on amplifying what the fringe is talking about. So A lot of people made a lot of Laura Ingram, you know, saying that maybe, you know, people were exhausted with Trump, but he said for my money. The more interesting development was Alex Jones’ endorsement of DeSantis on the grounds that DeSantis unlike Trump has credibly appealed to the anti vaccine fringe And in case you miss this, fresh off of his his humiliating courtroom loss for slandering the grieving parents of the children murdered at Sandy Hook. Alex Jones has announced that he’s got a new political heartthrob. Let’s play the cut from Alex Jones endorsing Rhonda Sanders.
  • Speaker 1
    0:23:52

    Pink headedly support him a
  • Speaker 4
    0:23:55

    few years ago, even though I disagree with his warp speed, because I thought that we had to keep him in office because of the nightmare scenario if Hilary or Biden got
  • Speaker 1
    0:24:05

    him. Back
  • Speaker 4
    0:24:07

    before they were officially running. He’s off the bat. But that said, I am supporting the Spanish.
  • Speaker 2
    0:24:14

    Congrats, Ron.
  • Speaker 4
    0:24:15

    DeSantis is just gone for being awesome to being unbelievably good. And I know just watch a man’s actions, as Christ said, you had to treat by his fruits. I also look at his eyes on HD video. On h t b d. And I see the real sincerity.
  • Speaker 4
    0:24:33

    I’ve looked
  • Speaker 1
    0:24:34

    Alex Jones has looked into his eyes. On HD video. He’s actually probably never met the guy. But on HD video, he’s looked into his eyes. He’s seen his soul.
  • Speaker 1
    0:24:44

    And he just knows the real sincerity This guy hates vaccines and will believe the government wants to turn frogs gay just like you.
  • Speaker 2
    0:24:55

    I mean,
  • Speaker 1
    0:24:56

    Tim, Welcome to Alec twenty twenty two.
  • Speaker 2
    0:24:58

    Yeah. Well, you know, there is a game for all epidemic out here in Oakland. So Alex joins vitamin on to something else. If there’s
  • Speaker 1
    0:25:05

    anything wrong with gay frogs? No. I I wanna make it clear that I am not in any way dissing gay frogs.
  • Speaker 2
    0:25:11

    Seem hopping and humping and kissing all over the place on the street. Okay.
  • Speaker 1
    0:25:15

    I’m okay with that. The
  • Speaker 2
    0:25:19

    Well, that’s a bit at first, I just wanna just take a moment to to congratulate Ron DeSantis because that’s a big endorsement to to love. Again, Alex Jones. You know, right on the heels of that multi, multi, multi million dollar fine. The payment the courts forced him to pay to the parents of the children who had killed Sandy Huck who he slandered. It’s kind of reminiscent of the David Duke Donald Trump endorsement back in twenty sixteen, early twenty sixteen, if you remember that.
  • Speaker 2
    0:25:47

    The DeSantis thing. The Trump is right, Bert. It’s a clever turn by Philip bump. I I think that Trump was also info worthy as well. Right.
  • Speaker 2
    0:25:57

    So there’s a little bit of a continuation more than a change. It is really important here because DeSantis And and just really one other thing I’m trumping in for was he called Alex Jones. This is kinda one of the last things in history. They talked, like, the Monday or the day after he won. I figured it was a Wednesday after the Monday after he was he he beat Hillary.
  • Speaker 2
    0:26:15

    He called Alex Jones to, you know, to thank you. For his service. So — True. — anyway, I
  • Speaker 1
    0:26:21

    I bet that we have a whole sub chapter in my book, how the right lost its mind about Donald Trump and Alex Jones. And and, particularly, Yeah. This is the guy who was he was elected president of the United States and one of the first guys that he called, and he was assuming he would have been busy, was Alex Jones to thank him for the crucial role he played in electing him.
  • Speaker 2
    0:26:38

    Unbelievable. So there you go. So you had that. You you that was not lost history for you. It was it’s right there in your book.
  • Speaker 2
    0:26:43

    My my bad. Maybe that’s where I remember it from since, you know, I read your book for prep. For why we did a travelogue from the Republican Road to hell available now on Amazon. Anyway, back to around DeSantis, there was an interesting report. That came out.
  • Speaker 2
    0:26:56

    I don’t know if you saw this about how DeSantis was weighing whether or not to endorse Karen Taylor Robson. In Arizona, again, the primary against Carrie Lake and was leaning towards it. That’s what Ducey gets behind him and and Pence gets behind him. And decided, you know, basically, that it wasn’t worth the political capital, that he’ll go ahead and let the drag king antisemite endorse saying, I wanna bomb the border election fraudster. Just you you just be just fine with that person because he doesn’t wanna risk any political capital endorsing.
  • Speaker 2
    0:27:29

    Just more of a light megaperson instead and and New England to be neutral. And now he’s going in the masteriano people said today that DeSantis contacted them. About campaigning for him, a Christian nationalist and supreme minister who is there on January sixth. So this is how contaminated the whole pool is. Right?
  • Speaker 2
    0:27:50

    Like, this notion that, you know, Donald Trump could go away and we could move back. And, obviously, that was completely aided by what we saw in Wyoming, but I don’t think that there’s just this appreciation now for how, like, deep into the sediment all of the magna conspiratorial stuff is. And and and there are all these little choices you have to make. And all if you wanna run for president and all of these primaries, that that you have know that if you want to actually win and not run, you know, a respectable losing campaign, which I’ve been on a few, nothing wrong with that. That you they’re gonna feel pressured to endorse the anti semites, the conspiracies, and to stay away from the quote unquote, team normal people who are just light versions of the conspiracies.
  • Speaker 2
    0:28:36

    It’s a pretty dark situation that we’re seeing with this, and it’s a and then I I’m I’m sure you wanna talk about the the judge
  • Speaker 1
    0:28:41

    over rowing the Florida stuff too about how perform it? I do. And let me give a shout out to this sort of the counterpoint here to governor Larry Hogan of Maryland. Who said that the Republican nominee to succeed him in Maryland is basically a not job. Not not not basically a not job.
  • Speaker 1
    0:28:55

    He said that. You know, Hogan was previously called GOP gubernatorial candidate Dan Cox a QAnon whack job, described the GOP nominee as a nut during a recent radio interview and reiterated his prediction that Cox has no chance whatsoever being elected as Maryland’s governor in November. He is not, in my opinion, mentally stable. Hogan, who is term limited, said Wednesday. The contrast with DeSantis and Lucy is is dramatic.
  • Speaker 1
    0:29:23

    Yeah. Actually, DeSantis had a shitty day yesterday because his federal judge just totally slapped him down. They had passed the stop woke bill, which I’d look I think every first amendment lawyer in the country knew was unconstitutional and it didn’t matter to the Republicans in Florida. This bans private companies from certain kinds of diversity training. So this is the first sentence of this federal judge’s ruling blocking Desantis’ stop woke at.
  • Speaker 1
    0:29:51

    In the popular tell this was the judge room. In the popular television series, Stranger Things. The upside down describes a parallel dimension containing a distorted version of our world. Recently Florida has seemed like a first amendment upside down. And he and he goes along to say, look, The state is barring speech by prohibiting discussion of certain concepts and ideas in training programs by private companies.
  • Speaker 1
    0:30:18

    If Florida truly believes we live in a post racial society he wrote, then let let it make its case but it cannot win the argument by muzzling its opponents. And so I our friend David French points out, this is not exactly winning. He said, you know, the the the the DeSantis narrative is that he is the cultural warrior who gets results, but two big pieces of Culture War legislation, the softwoke Act, and the social media law are now blocked by the courts, and Florida may have to pay legal fees May I suggest this is not what winning looks like? Well, yes. Well,
  • Speaker 2
    0:30:54

    yeah. That’s what winning looks like for Rhonda Scientific
  • Speaker 1
    0:30:56

    here. That’s angled
  • Speaker 2
    0:30:57

    on care. At least, like, the voters of the government.
  • Speaker 1
    0:31:00

    Yeah. They don’t
  • Speaker 2
    0:31:01

    actually have policy objectives they’re trying to achieve. They just wanna, like, stick their finger in the eye of the of the annoying people they don’t like. Right? And so the other thing, the World Act was also related to schools is that I’ll be in to see how they don’t say gay bill holds up. I know that my friend, Robbie Kaplan, who’s who’s a who’s a great attorney is challenging that.
  • Speaker 2
    0:31:21

    Right, in the courts right now as well. But it was interesting that one of the things you didn’t mention about the the act itself is that is that at bars the the teaching or promotion of the fact that people are privileged or oppressed based on race gender or national origin. Right? So I it goes so far into banning what, you know, you could like even have a discussion about. And in in in the school setting, I think this is particularly interesting because the the whole premise of the, like, end of the University of Austin, Anti Woke, Anti PC crowd.
  • Speaker 2
    0:32:01

    And so we can’t even have these discussions on campus anymore. Right? You know, if you wanna be the person who objects to the woke narrative about white privilege, Well, DeSantis took that and did not try to promote, like, discussion or conversation around these sensitive issues. He literally tried to ban schools from teaching or leading a discussion about the possibility that white people might have privilege or that people of color might be systemically disadvantaged. It was an extremely radical, and I almost opiate level Law.
  • Speaker 1
    0:32:38

    This is a really important point because, you know, for people who haven’t been paying attention to conservatives over the last twenty years, that up until, you know, Rhonda Sanders, basically, this this new this new era, there was growing movement among conservatives to back free speech rights, believe it or not. I know that sounds crazy now with all the book bands and everything that was going on here. The support for the diversity of ideas and academic freedom. But now there is this pivot from free expression tolerance for different ideas. You know, let’s come together and actually be able to talk about stuff.
  • Speaker 1
    0:33:11

    To actual speech bands. And in part, it’s this new right that feels that it’s in some ways mirroring the authoritarianism, what they see as the authoritarianism of political correctness, which tries to have speech codes and everything. But they’re not trying to encourage you know, the flourishing of different points of view, they are muzzling, and they are banning these different points of view. It is really extraordinary, and that’s that’s what we’re on to Sandoz is.
  • Speaker 2
    0:33:40

    And some credits. Just really quick. On the on the more rational side of the, you know, kind of free speech, you know, your Yasha monks, I have my friends over at the fifth column podcast. Like, Duchess has gotten called out on this by some of the people who have been, like, really kind of leaders in the anti woke to the whatever. You wanna call that anti priest speech movement and yet they’re in the minority.
  • Speaker 2
    0:34:02

    Right? Like like, what you see is that I I think that because most people don’t have like really actually policy prescriptions that they care about, what they like, I think DeSantis has the winning hand in that argument with the base. Right? Obviously,
  • Speaker 1
    0:34:15

    I
  • Speaker 2
    0:34:15

    completely insanely wrong hand on the on the merits. But, you know, they they want the other side punished, not the flourishing of speech.
  • Speaker 1
    0:34:24

    Yeah. Now speaking of bench slaps by judges, I’m not we don’t have time to get into it, but in my newsletter morning shots today, I linked to a decision by a Wisconsin judge about that completely bogus clown car investigation of the twenty twenty election was headed by a former state supreme court justice named Michael Gabelman, and it was a complete disaster he was fired last week. But the judge goes through all of the things about this investigation that they basically recorded no interviews, gathered no data, organized no existing data in any analytical form, generated no reports. One after this judge just pounds them and pounds them and pounds them, but a bunch of liars and frauds and freaks there. He revokes the permission of these lawyers, including a rather prominent conservative word named James Baugh, to even represent this this this effort in Wisconsin courts anymore because they’re basically so full of shit.
  • Speaker 1
    0:35:21

    He says, you know, he’s talking about one of their briefs and said, this this it’s a fever, dream version of the facts of the case and a pernicious and selfish attempt to repaint the truth. And then he says, I’m not gonna let you even practice here in Wisconsin anymore you out of state lawyers because the motion to which they have signed their names applies phony legal principles to invented facts. Every claim they make is frivolous under Wisconsin law. There’s nothing there. They found nothing.
  • Speaker 1
    0:35:48

    They did nothing. And what a humiliating defeat. So that just worth keeping in mind. Okay? We’re running out of time here, but
  • Speaker 2
    0:35:56

    I can’t believe how we’re forty minutes into this time to fly, and Charlotte, I go a lot of material. We’re hot today.
  • Speaker 1
    0:36:01

    Liz Cheney. We gotta do Liz Cheney. Can I ask you one question, sort of, Liz Cheney adjacent, which is kinda different? Yeah. What was Elon Musk doing in Jackson Hole?
  • Speaker 1
    0:36:11

    You know, kissing up to Kevin McCarthy the day of the primary? What is Elon Musk doing? Showing up at Republican fundraisers in Wyoming. He’s a busy guy. So has he gone, like, totally Maga, totally McCarthy?
  • Speaker 1
    0:36:24

    What what the hell? Well,
  • Speaker 2
    0:36:25

    I think that he knows that Trump’s Kevin will that can very easily be Elon’s Kevin in congress. I think Kevin likes to pretend like him and Elon are friends. I’ve I’ve I’ve heard that from reporters who spent a lot of time with him. And and so I think that, yeah, you know, if you’re a company to highly subsidize companies like he’s he’s like he has, it’d be nice to have a speaker of the house. As, you know, your little
  • Speaker 1
    0:36:51

    The lap dog, you get dog a what?
  • Speaker 2
    0:36:54

    Dog. Thank you. That’s the word I was looking for. So I think there’s that. And I also think that Elon Musk is and he’s just following a trajectory that that’s pretty familiar at this point.
  • Speaker 2
    0:37:03

    It’s moving from being a contrarian to you know, actually, I’m just, you know, a full red pill’s Republican. And and and it does it seems like he’s on that trajectory, but he also might I think at the same time as as being calculating about how he can use and abuse Kevin. So speaking of pathetic suckups. Oh. Dan Crenshaw?
  • Speaker 2
    0:37:24

    I
  • Speaker 1
    0:37:24

    am old enough to remember when Dan Krinchaw was the manliest of all men. And by the way, you know, thank you for his service and everything. And he has distance himself from some of the hardcore maggots. He’s gotten into pissing matches with Marc Drew Taylor Green. But you tweeted about this video that he posted where he wants to make it very clear that he has no Liz Cheney Coody’s.
  • Speaker 1
    0:37:45

    Can we just play Dan Crenshaw basically making it clearly No. Don’t don’t ever accuse me of leaving liking Liz Cheney. Let’s play that. Perms
  • Speaker 3
    0:37:55

    some trolls on the Internet that I endorsed Liz Cheney in her primary election. Obviously, not true. Now what these people are doing is spreading around a very old tweet like over a year and a half ago where I say nice things about Liz. Beckman, we all supported her voted for her for conference chair. And then she went off the deep end, and
  • Speaker 2
    0:38:11

    we all
  • Speaker 3
    0:38:12

    stopped supporting her. She No. I wasn’t Jackson Hole. This week, but with Kevin McCarthy who was supporting Liz’s primary opponent. And then we congratulated her.
  • Speaker 3
    0:38:21

    So The truth here is that there’s people on the Internet who lied to you and they continue to lie to you and they especially like lying about me because they know that you’ll click on it. So whoever shared that with you and took the date off, crotted, so you couldn’t see it, couldn’t get the contacts, whoever did that, unfollow them. Cancel lying to you now and they’ll keep lying to you. When
  • Speaker 1
    0:38:44

    do you start with that? Cancel them. Cancel them. Does I
  • Speaker 2
    0:38:48

    like my favorite part of that, it is how it’s like, back when we all liked Liz, and we we have data like Liz. It was like, you know Yeah. But
  • Speaker 1
    0:38:56

    then this is now don’t you understand that we have all completely shape shifted? Come on. We can’t be held accountable for the in that day when we had principals? No.
  • Speaker 2
    0:39:07

    It’s such a high school cafeteria. It’s like, well, we all liked Katy Herron last year. And then she did the one thing in the pool, and now we can’t like her anymore. And so and people are trying to pretend like I still like her because I liked her last year, but I don’t like her because I was told I shouldn’t like anymore about everybody else in the caucus. And it’s just so pathetic.
  • Speaker 2
    0:39:26

    I when I wrote about Dan last year, I pulled this up. He wrote in his book that the most devastating mental state he can imagine is one where people consider themselves helpless in the face of a challenge. And and that is and and this is why he’s become such a whiny little bitch because he is he is in his most devastating mental state that he can imagine. Right? He knows.
  • Speaker 2
    0:39:49

    He knows that Liz Cheney is right. You don’t think that Dan Crenshaw knows? But he feels helpless. And that he has no choice but to go along with Harriet Hageman, another person who knows the truth, and and little Kevin and etcetera, so that he can still maybe have a chance to wanna to take Dan Patrick or Greg Abbott’s job at some point in the future, which he’s never gonna get, by the way. He’s to like, he’s totally been cornered by these little mag controls on the Internet, who who who troll him so effectively that he has to make these pathetic videos to, like, rebut them.
  • Speaker 2
    0:40:28

    And it’s, like, why don’t you have why don’t you actually take the fight to the people that are lying about you consistently and take the fight for the truth and actually have some courage and stand up from his journey. But, you know, that would mean actually taking some some sort of risk. So instead, he will continue to make whiny, little selfie videos. Okay. He really is a dad.
  • Speaker 1
    0:40:49

    Yes. Empathetic. Okay. So you you you have some more training material?
  • Speaker 2
    0:40:53

    One other thing I have to rant about. This is our the home theme podcast. It might be a little niche, but every once in a while, you get to rant about random Wisconsin people. So this is fun. K.
  • Speaker 2
    0:41:01

    Twenty thirteen, I started a group called America Rising with two other people. There was a democratic group called America Bridge. And and they did a very good job of sending little trackers around with videos to follow Republican candidates, get them to say embarrassing things, give that give the video out to the media, etcetera. And Republicans didn’t have this. So three of us started a group that was gonna compete against that.
  • Speaker 2
    0:41:23

    And it was pretty it did pretty well for the first cycle when I was in charge. You know, we took out a couple of Democrats. Sorry. Apologies in retrospect. But I left the group obviously over Donald Trump because, you know, to be a Republican super PAC and good standing in twenty sixteen, you had support Donald Trump, so my colleagues continued to support him.
  • Speaker 2
    0:41:43

    I bailed. And it’s kinda off my radar. He’s kinda blocking out to try not to think about it. And I wrote a little bit about it in the book. A bit of text comes across by phone, one of those little triggering bleeps that you get during the day in our in our dark times.
  • Speaker 2
    0:41:58

    And it let me know that my former group, I haven’t been a part of for six years, fired its chairman, Jeff Larson, former boss of mine at the RNC. Do you know what they fired Jeff Larsen about? What do you think he did? Charlie, any guesses? Any you know, do you think maybe a me too situation or maybe mishandled some money?
  • Speaker 2
    0:42:17

    Or what do you what do you think his his crime was that caused him to get fired? Killed some puppies, beat baby seals to death with clubs. No. No. They lost their job long.
  • Speaker 2
    0:42:26

    They lost some races maybe? No. Uh-uh. He was revealed to have been supportive of Liz Cheney.
  • Speaker 1
    0:42:33

    No.
  • Speaker 2
    0:42:34

    Yes. And so this group that was founded by all these establishment Republicans me and Mitt Romney’s campaign manager who’s gone now too and the RNC research director who’s the only one who’s still there and all of these other people that worked for you know, Mitt and Bush and and regular Liz Cheney’s dad worked for Dick Cheney. That group, not some mega freak group, that group fired its chairman because he dared to try to help Liz Cheney win her primary against a bunch of insurrectionist lunatics. Cancel. A tent.
  • Speaker 2
    0:43:07

    Really big tent. Cancel culture is coming from inside the house. Like, that that is it. Like, this is that is mind boggling. Like like how?
  • Speaker 2
    0:43:16

    Like, it it well, it’s disgusting and it’s no
  • Speaker 1
    0:43:18

    way to know. But it’s also it’s not like okay. You know what? It’s not mind boggling? Because I read your fucking book.
  • Speaker 1
    0:43:25

    Can you get a whole book about these people and the way they behave? You might be boggled
  • Speaker 4
    0:43:31

    any It’s just so unbelievably
  • Speaker 2
    0:43:33

    pathetic. It’s like that is the person’s crime standing up for Liz Cheney and down the line conservative. They get asked to get fired now. Fuck these people, Charlie. And it’s just so fucking sick.
  • Speaker 2
    0:43:44

    They
  • Speaker 1
    0:43:44

    weren’t Tim Miller. I would be saying, hey, you know what you need to do? You need to go get Tim Miller’s book. Which will explain this to you so you are not so hopelessly naive to be surprised by
  • Speaker 2
    0:43:54

    this. This is why I have to do this rant right now because I was too nice to a mirror. I should have done an entire chapter on America rising in that book rather than just a few sentences because I figured nobody would care about this random mid level super pack. I started ten years ago, but I should have done more and just skinned them because the idea that that, like, this is an acceptable way to behave. It’s just unbelievable.
  • Speaker 2
    0:44:18

    And
  • Speaker 1
    0:44:18

    and it’s
  • Speaker 2
    0:44:19

    just come to remember that, you know, when that next time you see here, people go winding about English Shapiro or canceled culture, somebody lost their job, they fired somebody for supporting Liz Cheney, unbelievable. See,
  • Speaker 1
    0:44:30

    the thing
  • Speaker 2
    0:44:30

    applies a
  • Speaker 1
    0:44:31

    lot, but absurd. I feel you’re pain because even though we’ve been doing this now for it feels like a decade, these things are still raw, especially if you had some part in it. And obviously, I’m raising my hand being here from Wisconsin, Ron Johnson, and all these other guys. It’s like it it still is amazing. And I know people at at some point go, you know, like, how naive must you be not to recognize that these people are nuts.
  • Speaker 1
    0:44:57

    They’ve always been nuts. You know, they’re going to behave like nuts in the future. Why are you surprised by it? But, you know, for us, for you and me, and I think there is that personal thing. There’s like, we once knew you, we thought we understood you, we were friends at one time, and what the hell has happened to you?
  • Speaker 1
    0:45:14

    Right? And so this doesn’t get
  • Speaker 2
    0:45:16

    old And you don’t get old of integrity. They’re not nuts. Nuts is too nice, actually. I know. That’s it.
  • Speaker 2
    0:45:21

    What they’re doing is immoral. Like, have one idea
  • Speaker 1
    0:45:24

    of
  • Speaker 2
    0:45:24

    integrity. Right? Just one. Okay? Can you just stand up for one person who did the right thing?
  • Speaker 2
    0:45:29

    Like, this person that is that you made the chairman of your way, whatever. That’s enough.
  • Speaker 1
    0:45:34

    Yeah. You’re about to crave an I don’t know. What if you know, the proasshole Yeah. Exactly crave an asshole. But craving household, I mean, households are necessarily purely evil.
  • Speaker 1
    0:45:46

    I mean, there’s there’s something that’s beyond that. So we’ll have to keep working on this. Let’s keep working on our nomenclature. Tim Miller, thank you so much for joining me in the weekend podcast. And, you know, we’re gonna have to continue this next week.
  • Speaker 1
    0:45:58

    Okay?
  • Speaker 2
    0:45:58

    Shelley sounds great. Have a great week, everybody. See you next Friday.
  • Speaker 1
    0:46:01

    You too. And thank you all for listening to the weekend below our podcast on trolley site. I will be back on Tuesday. We’ll do this all over again Monday, of course. Hey, check-in Amanda Carpenter’s gonna be a very special podcast.
  • Speaker 4
    0:46:18

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    0:46:35

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