The Road to Personal Growth (with Henry Winkler)

Hello, and welcome to the next level Sunday interview. I am your host, Tim Miller. I’m here with Sarah Longwell, and I gotta tell you. Hold just really quick. We have a great guest His name is Henry Winkel.

You might have heard of him, the Fonz. And, and if you have not ever checked out the show on YouTube, this will be the time to check it out because you’re just gonna wanna watch the glee on Sarah Longwell’s face, as well as the outfit that she put on for Henry Winkler. It’s gonna be a joyous experience for you on YouTube. I promise Sarah, what’d you think? Was it as joyful for you as it looked like?

He is the nicest person I’ve ever talked to. He has already tried to send things to our children. He is a sweet inspiring guy And it, like, was one of those things that enhanced my life to have done that, that little talk. So I hope you guys enjoy it as much as we did.

Henry’s two books coming at detective Duck a children’s book. We talk about that a lot. He’s got being Henry, more on that to come, a memoir. You know, he talks a lot about his struggles with dyslexia, and we talk a little bit about education policy in this country, but, you know, we also do some fun stuff too. So I think you’re really gonna enjoy it.

On the politics side, this is like a double feature for you guys. I am the guest on the focus And we do a lot of debate talk. We do a lot of politics talk. So if you just need your pure uncut politics fix, go check out the focus group or, you know, go check out focus group regardless, actually. We have a lovely discussion, and I think that you’ll enjoy it over there.

And then me and Sarah and JBL, we’re gonna be back on Wednesday.

Yeah. Hang with us all the time.

Come hang with us. So enjoy Henry Winkler. I hope it brings a smile to your face like it did to mine and Sarah Longwell, and we’ll get back to you on Wednesday, but first, our friends at acetone. Peace. Hello, and welcome to the Bulwark next level Sunday interview.

I’m your host, Tim Miller. I am here today with coach Prime Sarah Longwell who obviously had to join us because we had a special guest, a really special guest today Henry Winkler She’s a big fan of coach Cline from the water boy, which is something I think you might have heard of. And, is that your most famous role, right?

It isn’t my most famous My most famous role is grandfather.

Oh, okay.

One one right after that is Barry.

We’re gonna talk about Barry.

Yeah. So wait, let me just say why I’m here which is that I’m a massive fan of yours, but I also co host a podcast with Tim, publisher of the Bork. But what happens is when Tim does these, interviews and it’s somebody that one of us is obsessed with. We get to be the cohost on the show, but normally I look normal but today I went to the eye doctor for the very first time and they dilated my pupils, which is not a thing I knew that they did. So I decided in an homage to to you, to the fawns, I was gonna wear these aviators, and I know I don’t look that cool, but I’m doing it.

And I’m just happy to be here.

Alright. If this is an homage, to the fonts. And let me just tell you. Hey. You look very cool.

Thank you.

You look very cool.

So great.

The fun. I gotta tell you, disagree on that one of the funds, but we could, we can discuss that in post as well. Okay. So people might be wondering why is Henry Winler here? I’m kind of wondering that actually, and I’m the host.

And so

And I’m gonna tell you why, Tim. Okay. Yeah. Because I watch you as a commentator. I have watched you for quite a while now, and I find you to be, incredibly perceptive, straightforward And I saw it, you know, you asked, and I had to say yes.

Thank you. I was a little concerned about that because usually when I ask somebody of your status. And there’s nice to me as you were. It’s either one, they’re about to blow me off. Or two, you have a little bit of a cable TV habit that we might have to check-in on.

So I’m just a little concerned. You’re not you’re doing an appropriate amount of cable TV.

The second part, Tim, is true. I am an avid watcher of television. My wife and I have great recommendations of for wonderful shows if you’re interested.

We’ll get to those at the end. So give me just your politics a little bit. Our politics listeners, we could start there. I was listening to another one of your interviews. You said this.

You said I detest a person who said you are an actor. You shouldn’t be political. You shouldn’t have a thought. I like that quote. You know, it’s got the inverse to shut up and dribble.

And so I’m just wondering, you have some thoughts, you have some politics. What are the things that could get you most passionate in that space?

Alright. So the the granddaddy of my thought is this. This country or maybe even the west. I do the Western culture. I don’t know, but this country is where I live.

I love. I love my country. We are obsessed with the wrong P. We are obsessed with profit. Overpopulation.

I don’t know what has happened. We elect these human beings and they govern only themselves. There might be three people there who actually care about three hundred million but I have yet to see them.

And I, you know, wonder then there is this kind of intro fight I guess within the pro democracy coalition, if you will. We might broadly all be on the same side about that, that maybe the Democrats could do better trying to address that, I mean, Joe Biden is today. The day we’re taping this. He’s actually with the UAE, the folks striking. And there’s some that argue that maybe he could benefit from focusing more on that on on the economic issues rather than the identity issues.

You know what? I don’t have an answer to that. I don’t know what the answer is. I know this. Where I sing.

I feel we are on a precipice. We are an oppressorist that is literally cemented by passionate hate. And the so that means that if there is a flood one way or the other, that precipice is going to collapse because it is built on mud. And I think we have to focus This has always been my vision. You’re on your roof.

You’ve been in the middle of a tragedy Your belongings, everything you own is completely destroyed under your roof. A boat is coming. You have no water. Are you gonna say what is the color of your skin? Well, turn around, go back.

What is your political affiliate loaner? Oh, please don’t save me. Get out of here. I think we are on the brink of insanity.

We might even be over the brink a little bit

Well, that might be. I am a more positive thinker. I have grandchildren, and, it scares the hell out of me.

You know, I read somewhere your parents fled Nazi Germany. Is that correct?

Yes.

Sometimes Tim and I joke one of our friends, Bill Crystal, who we joined with in this sort of pro democracy time we all came together. We used to joke that there was kind of a coalition of Jews and gays that came together and the Trump years that a lot of us Republicans Do you think there’s something about that being in your past that has made you extra concerned about this time or something that resonates or echoes about that time?

Well, one thing is for sure is that, anti semitism is on the rise. Yeah. But I will say that my parents escaping a country leaving the country. They I mean, this is a very interesting thing. Leaving a country you love that you’re born in, that you’re raised in, you know, you know the language, and have to go to a whole new country and learn a whole new language because you’re gonna be killed has given me a tenacity.

I think that is deep in my DNA. And I look at the border, and yes, we could probably really work on that. But those people are not just leaving Venezuela or Honduras or wherever they’re coming from because hey, it’s the thing to do. Let’s just give up everything and, you know, march miles Yeah. Through a jungle, get raped, get robbed, get disease, get bitten by a snake.

Yeah. There’s no doubt. There is something to that. That fear that drives a lot of people that are coming here You know, I think is certainly true. And I think that it it gets missed a lot, like, when you talk to people in these communities.

The entire world seems to be moving.

Yeah. That that’s with us.

Everybody is is is shifting because of coups and gangs and rape and killing and devaluation of their money and

There’s no doubt. It’s crazy to me. That’s the thing that’s been kind of frustrating to me about this administration is that I just think this fear of the demonization of those groups that that’s gonna be effective politically has kind of stopped us, you know, from from trying to, like, seriously address this together. And it was kind of a bipartisan thing. It wasn’t that long ago.

This was a bipartisan thing trying to at least deal with the border in a compassionate way. But anyway, I I didn’t didn’t actually have you here to, like, get into the, like, the details of border policy.

That’s great because I’m at the end of my business.

I do wanna talk about lessons that could be learned from your life and your career. But I wanted to talk about some things before we get to TV about your life. You have cited one of the reasons for your activism is learning differences you had growing up. You’ve earned a bunch of kids book, you have a new kids book out, detective duck, and you have another series of kids’ books that help kids that learn differently. I’m just

But they’re all common, Tim. It’s really important is that we just say Lynn Oliver and I write funny first because we wanna be the gateway to reluctant readers.

I got one of those.

You know, in in some of our books, we have written chapters that are one paragraph. So if you have homework and you must read a chapter a night, You read your paragraph. You’re done.

This is good, though. This seems like you’re helping kids get of work, but that’s not really it. So I want you for listeners who don’t know your background. Talk about that. Like, your childhood and how you kind of struggled with reading and other school work and how that kinda led to this?

Well, you know, I I’ve said this before. I’m in the bottom three percent academically in America. I got, like, a hundred and twenty over, my name on my math score on the SATs.

Me too.

I, you know, I was I I applied to twenty eight colleges. I got into one.

Which one was that?

Well, I got into two, but I never heard of the other one.

Where did you go?

I went to Emerson in Boston.

Sure.

And I had the greatest time, and I am grateful to them

I don’t mean to age you Norman Leer also went there. Were you there together? No. Norman there might be like a hundred. I have no idea.

Anybody two years older than me are over is the same age. So I have no I have no

I’m with you. I’m with you. You and I were in seventh grade.

But, the struggle

inside, you’re saying, I’m not stupid. I don’t wanna be stupid, but everybody from the earliest time is saying you are And like a little duckling, you imprint. And until, like, two weeks ago, I thought I was stupid. You know, you just you just believe it. And then you believe, well, I can’t do anything.

And one of the lessons that I have learned in my in my life is that the time is right this second. You go, oh my god. I’m too old. Oh my god. I’ve got children.

Oh my god. I’m busy. I’ve got a podcast. There is no I can’t do that. I want to do that.

I can’t do that. I can but you can. You don’t know what you can accomplish until you put one foot in front of the other, as simple as that.

So how did you what was your, like, moment of overcoming this? How did you come to that?

Don’t overcome it, Sarah, you don’t overcome it. What you do is you negotiate it. You’re in constant negotiation with your challenge, and you push yourself. I was a negative thinker. I used to walk myself in a circle in the rug.

So I can’t do this. I I can’t play the I I don’t know how I’ll never be able to. And then I finally got so bored with myself. I’d say, Chuck, shut the hell up and Fly. Either you’re gonna crash or you’re gonna be okay.

But just shut the fuck up. And, I I got myself to that point so many times going to Broadway doing a Neil Simon play. Playing scrooge. I’m writing the books. I I said I can’t do that.

I’m dyslexic. I can’t write a book. Then you figure out How you do it? You meet a person. They type.

You talk. Then they have an idea. They type. You wait. Then they read it back to you and then you argue over everyone.

Thinking about you, young Henry Winkler, lack of confidence, struggling with this, like thinking that you’re dumb. The funds is just like the opposite of this. Right? The whole key to the funds to that character is his confidence. Right?

Like the character is so self confident. Right? So where did you summon the confidence to play such a confident person given that background.

And that is a different story. I have a master’s degree. I was led into the Yale School of drama. I got a foundation.

Did they not have SATs for that?

They did not.

Okay. Got it. Okay.

But I will tell you what they had. They had an audition. And I had to do two, monologues. One was modern. I got through that, and one was Shakespeareian.

Iambic pentameter and this tongue do not show these numbers. And I literally forgot my monologue. Completely. And I went longs and the dog, and then I proceeded to make it up. I just made up lance walking his dog in Elizabeth in England, and I got in.

So then was it that moment that gave you the confidence to do the font? Like, if I could fake my way into Yale, then I could fake the fonts.

No. No. Do you know what? I will tell you. I will tell you I had an audition at Paramount.

One week into landing on terra firma Los Angeles. Yep. I went eleven people in the room. I had hair down to my shoulders, Everybody in the green room waiting to get in was famous. They were all on television and me.

A short Jew from New York. And I walked in and I did one sing where I got the nerve. I don’t know. I changed my voice. I just made the choice.

I went alright. Let me I hit you. Don’t look at me like that. Alright? Avert your eyes right now.

And then I did the six lines I had. I threw the script up in the air, and I walked out of the room. And on my birthday, October thirtieth, nineteen seventy three. I got the call. Would you like to do this part?

You threw the script up in the air?

I did. I walked out and said, hey, alright. I’m done. Oh, And then I just saunted out. I saunted.

No skip.

That’s so good. I wanna get more into the acting stuff, but the reading and trying to help kids that are doing it just likes you. You talked to a lot of these groups. Like, what do you say to young people who are going through this? Like, they can’t just pretend to be the funds.

How do they summon confidence themselves?

I will tell you what I what I say. I say two things. I say first of all, how you learn has nothing to do. With how brilliant you are. That’s number one.

You don’t know what you can achieve. What is inside your imagination until you try? Two. Every one of you sitting here no matter what country, no matter whether it’s three hundred children, five hundred children, from kindergarten to twelfth grade. I say to them, you are powerful.

You have got greatness inside you already. You all know what you’re great at. The world needs what you’re great at. You dig it out and you give it to the world as a gift because if you don’t, the world will be less.

You know, sometimes I have these just like transcendent moments where I think about me as a kid, watching you and happy days reruns in the eighties. And then I think about me now with a second grader who’s struggling to read, and you’re sitting here saying the things that I wish I could say to him all the time to help him not be so frustrated. And it’s like, just these incredible things coming together and it’s amazing to watch you. It’s amazing that this is what you do in the world, that that’s what you put in.

Which is this is it. This is what I made a deal with myself and my wife that I would be a different parent than I grew up with. And that my children can talk to me and say anything that is on their mind as long as I don’t weep. And a heard child is a powerful child. And I’m telling you, you will say to your second grader, all of these things.

And he will say, you have to say that mom. You’re my mom, and you say, Actually, I’m looking at you. I’m I see you and I’m going to say this because I mean it and you will repeat it. Eighteen times a day for the next eighteen years. And no matter what the flak you get back, you just say, I’m sorry.

No matter what you say, what I’m saying is true. I’m telling you.

The weeping rule, all of that is good for me except for the weeping I’m like turning into John Bainer here. Every year, I get older. I’m crying more and more. So I need to come up with some different limits on this. I’m with you.

I’m with you.

It’s funny. Sarah was talking about just this. Sometimes you see things at a time when you see them and it was just today. I saw a tweet from a reporter that follows smart guy, and he was talking about how He is a dyslexic kid. He’s in Colorado, and it took him years to figure it out.

And because still to this day, They don’t do a screen for this, for young kids in schools.

It costs too much money. It costs them money because they are then responsible for a special look at education for that child or anybody else. One out of six children. Have some sort of learning challenge. That’s a lot of population.

And how can the greatest country in the world not only not feed our children but also neglect that possibly they are wired differently and learn differently.

Yeah. So as you’ve done activist on this, is it funding? Is it just as simple as that, or are there other substantive things you’ve seen that places have done better or worse

It’s funding because there are so many teachers now who are learning about how to react to a kid who learns in a special way. There are schools for that now. Here in LA, there are many I’ve traveled and spoken to schools all over the country who primarily specialize in the kid who learns differently. And I’m telling you where there is a will there is a way, but it takes you’re advocating for your child to to to shake these people alive.

We have other news or sitting here. It seems like we have an agreement on the rider strike, and so I I would be remiss to not at least just get your take on this whole negotiation and ways that the industry is changing and all that.

Okay. One, we make in this city, in Los Angeles, we make entertainment for America and the world. It takes a village, and it all starts and ends with the writer. If it isn’t on the page, it is not on the stage. On Broadway, you don’t change a word unless you go through the playwright.

In California, we change writers like you toss a glass of water and fill it with iced tea. It it is insane to me, but be that as it may because I’ve worked with extraordinary writers over my career. If we don’t take care of ourselves now, the business is changing so fast. It will be completely different in four years. That’s why there is a three year deal.

But Ultimately, it is the humanness. I produced, a show with my partner at the time, Maguiver. And one of the reasons that we landed on Maguiver is because I wanted to see that guy. You make what you want to see. You write what you want to tell.

And because we are all the same, you’re gonna connect. But if you write what you think you should, you will disintegrate like dust.

So when you look at the younger generation of folks coming up in that? Do you feel a lot of angst for people in the creative business? I mean, there’s just so many different challenges right now between AI and all the streamers.

You know what I do with AI? I go right to the movie with how the computer. And I think AI will teach itself to look you right in the ear and go, you know what? I don’t think I’m gonna do that. I think I’ve got a better idea.

Goodbye humanity. That is my long distance view of AI as much as they try to put lipstick on it.

It’s dark.

It is so dangerous. It is so tenuous. Do I have angst? I have angst that I believe that ritual, that tradition is a very important ingredient of the glue. That binds a society.

And young people have less and less ritual, less and less tradition. Just a simple example. You make something. I loved making Barry. Now here’s half a circle.

My job is to sell Barry, along with other people. But my job now to complete the circle is to sell it And young people don’t understand the full responsibility that acting is not being a star. It is you’re in the trenches. You’re a professional and part of that profession doesn’t end when you go home when they yell cut.

I have to admit. I’ve never watched Barry. So I’m gonna wait here and watch you guys sell me on this one. Alright.

But, Tim, would you do me a favor?

Yes.

You now have my text.

Okay. I do.

There are four seasons.

Yeah.

There are eight episodes. Yeah. Each season. I think

I have to send you a report card.

I think it will astound you. I think it is original and I think if you like to watch entertainment, it will make you happy. And then would you let me know if I’m right?

I will. Do I have to let you know at the end of each season or just at the end of all four?

Or Oh, wait. You need to tell all four.

All four. Okay.

You gotta watch the whole thing.

I will do that.

Because you guys believe from where it starts and where it ends is in the same universe.

Well, no spoilers, but Sarah Longwell I now have homework, do you have very questions that we can get into that aren’t gonna ruin it for me?

Yeah. Let me just start by saying we have a culture person at the Bulwark named Sunny, and it was like Sonny assigned it. It’s like he assigns things that he thinks are really great. So he assigned Barry early on before it was complete. And I started it and I was like, you know what, me as I’ve gotten older and as a parent, I have much less capacity for darkness.

And the main character is a contrast killer. And so it is very violent and sort of corally violent in some of the early things. And I stopped. I stopped watching. Okay.

Just like this isn’t for me. And then I saw an interview with you Henry talking about the show and it being funny and also you were so positive in the interview And I just got all like, you know what? I’m going back to this. I’m gonna try again. And this time, I think there were three seasons out at this point, so I was like mowing through it.

It is the best. It’s such a creative setup and your character is the funniest because you are a good guy and a bad guy. You are self involved and narcissistic, but you’re also a teacher and you have good moments It’s such a great character, and it is the most surprising show.

I fell in love with the couple,

Berry, and and, the girl. Sally? Sally, their relationship. I loved, but it’s commentary on Hollywood was the best. There’s this great scene where She is really trying to read for a role and she’s prepped and she’s sitting and he like walks in to like say something to her and the casting agent is like you.

Man, you’re tall. Come breed for this part, and it was, you know, just about how much easier it is for men than these women. But you as the teacher, The most special part of the show to me is the acting class. Are the scenes in the acting class where you are the teacher and you have these young minds that you are both exploiting as well as enhancing. So anyway, and this is just me dumping out my love for this show in this project because it is so different.

And it does blend these genres

in

this way that it’s just the best of it. Like, now you can start and tell us everything. Like, how’d you get this role? Why did you do it? What do you love about the show.

First of all, thank you. I mean, that was lovely. So I was leaving an estate planning something you guys don’t need to know yet? An estate planning meeting, my wife and I. We’re driving down Ventura Boulevard.

I get a phone call. HBO call. Never worked for HBO HBO. HBO. Bill Hader.

Bill Hader. Oh my goodness. Sagin and I live. Bill Hader. You’re on a short list.

I said, is Dustin Hoffman on that list? Because if he is, I’m not going in because he’s an academy award winner, he’s gonna get it. They said, no. He’s not on the list. I said, okay.

And I auditioned. Max, my young son, who is now in New York, running a show for Ryan Murphy with his wife, wonderful actress, Jessica, and their two year old. Oh my god. They lived with us for five months, and then he went back because the strike is almost over. Oh my god.

The house is empty.

So the strike got a silver lining for you.

That was the only thing. My little granddaughter running up and down the hall. Oh my god. Okay. So Max is here.

He directs me in my audition scenes. I go in. I read. I made Bill Hater laugh. I thought to myself, I just made Bill Hater laugh.

I go home. I wait for about a millennium. I get a phone call. Wanna come in again? I said, in my mind.

No, I don’t wanna come in again. If I mess up, I don’t wanna be I if you like me the first time that I don’t yes. Of course, I do. He set me two scenes, Bill Hader. I then fax them to my Sun Max.

He directs me over the phone yelling at me about saying every word I go in the next day. Now Alec Berg is there who is very close to the vest. I Alec Berg. Alec Burke. And I sink his vestas tattooed on.

That’s how close. I think I made him smile. I went home. I waited a millennium. Bill Hader called me.

Said I can’t get you out of my mind. Would you like to play this part? I said, yes.

So great.

I’m fascinated by listening to that. I’ve not seen the show, but having heard all the accolades and now having the homework to see it Yeah, we think a lot as us never trumpers about me and Sarah Longwell in mid life had to make big changes had to kind of summon something from inside of us in the middle of life. You had, you know, this huge role. You’re one of the most famous people in the world, but then you kind of feel like you Secret Podcast, right? And and you had this period in the wilderness of sorts.

And here you are decades later now having to kind of humble yourself, let’s just be honest, kind of humble yourself to to addition. Right? A certain model people aren’t that addition. No.

Let me just correct you there.

Please.

That’s part of the job. There are people I know who said, hey, you know, they know my work. They can see me on tape.

Yeah.

And I said, the life of a, an executive is about nineteen months. Some of these people are new. They don’t know. You’ve gotta be there in person. You can show them you’re walking and talking at the same time.

It is it is difficult. I was sitting in a room with all those metal chairs. All the actors waiting to go in. They went, you’re Henry Winkler. What are you doing here?

I said, I’m looking for a job. You?

I love that though. That’s a mindset. That’s a mindset to say, hey. And, like, instead of being like I was the fonz, you know, pick me or don’t, Right? It’s to say no.

I need to keep working for this. I can reinvent myself. I can do something that is maybe better than the font. Right? Like, so where where, you know, talk about that from like a life lesson perspective.

That is will. That is knowing what you want without ambivalence. That is believing you are a working person and you are not more than anybody else in that room.

And what’s it like as you get older, right? And, you know, you’re not gonna play the fonz now. What was it like to have a role come along? Because the thing is, Tim, when you see the show, what you will understand is that Henry is the funniest part of this show. So the conceit is very funny, but like the actual humor oftentimes comes from an incredibly complicated character Right?

This character you’re playing is both pathos, like he’s sort of a sad. He’s sort of a sad actor who’s not working, who teaching because he can’t work and he’s kind of jealous of his students. He can be cruel. He can be a raging narcissist towards the end. But and I guess maybe this is the actual question is you end up the star of that show.

You end up at the center of the plot and everything sort of revolves around you. Did that start that way? Or did you because you were so special? It’s like you come to this point in your career and you wanna roll like that that’s so perfect for you.

I can’t answer that. All I know is this. I started and I was supposed to be the narcissist. Yeah. I was supposed to be the bastard teacher.

I was supposed to be teachers I’ve had. And as I played him, Bill and Alec literally said to me, We did not have that in mind. And as we watched you, thought, yeah, we could go in that direction too. So I literally was doing what I was doing and they literally went with me. And allowed me to just have that, dimension.

This is the same thing as the phones. Right? Fifty years earlier. Right? That character was not the main care.

And in the first season, I didn’t realize this this is before my time that he were not in the whole first season. Right? Their episodes didn’t even come soon.

Seven of thirteen.

Yeah. That’s crazy. I wanna talk about one other show. I don’t know if this is the show you usually get asked about, but for this podcast, it’s very important. In that show.

Yeah.

Are you ready? Can you guess what it’s gonna be?

I don’t know.

Monte.

Okay.

Monte. In nineteen ninety four, There’s only one season of Monty.

No. They’re not even a flu season.

It was a formative time for me, age twelve. And do you played kind of like a right wing talk show host character.

A Washington Law with a gay daughter.

Yeah. And I

How did I miss this show?

Well, because it was only on for one season. It should have been longer, but Was it changed? Because why?

When I first got it, Mark Lawrence, who was part of Gary David Golberg stable of writers. Sent me a script and I laughed out loud. It was brilliant, rush limbo with a gay daughter. And I said, I can’t do it. It’s too controversial in nineteen ninety four.

I then read it again, and he called me again. And I said, It is brilliant. I can’t do this because, I’m I’m having trouble myself and I don’t wanna take the risk. I read it a third time and I called him and I said, there, there is nothing to do, but do this show. So we did it.

For NBC. And Warren Littlefield bought it. I was on the way to New York to do the up front which is where all of the actors of all the new shows, all the actors of all the old shows go and meet the advertisers. In one week. And then I got a call.

Can I have that ticket back, please? Somebody at GE that owned NBC at the time must have read it and said not on our Bulwark. Jeff Katzzenberg then said we’re gonna sell it and we sold it to Fox. We made a change. The change was you no longer have a daughter who comes back from college with her girlfriend, Cynthia Nixon at the time.

In the pilot. Whoa.

It was Cynthia Nixon. Yep. Oh, you end up with David Schwimmer?

Yes. Now you have a son who went to college to study law and came back and wants to be a chef. So here

Chef is the stand in for gay here.

Here is the law. When you’re doing something, and it starts to get so bastardized that you don’t recognize it anymore. You have got to stop take your ego out of it and go home. Not I’m gonna show them. We’re gonna make this anyway.

If it gets bastardized and it’s not what was originally the passion that sold you, go home.

That’s a great lesson for that show. What I’m just curious about though is you did the research for the rush part. And I just am wondering living through all this now kind of like looking back on that. Does it kind of feel like there’s a straight line between our current problems that we’re talking about at the start and the kind of stuff that that character was espousing in ninety four? Do you think things have changed?

Or

Wow. That’s a very interesting question. Because, you know, rush Lumbot, so many of these people wanted only wanted to be a star. Rush Lindball was a forties DJ. Didn’t make it and found his niche in order so that he could buy himself a gold microphone.

That was it. I mean, that was the the the moment of his life. It wasn’t what he said. It was what he said it into that was the symbol of who he was. I think.

We have a lot of imitators of that now. This was just in a fight yesterday at this Clay Travis fella who, on on on eggs.

Yeah. And one of them, it should get a jacket Welcome to buy the the top to his suit.

Okay. Time flies with Henry Winkler. Are you ready for rapid fire, Henry winkler?

I am.

You are. Great.

I’m gonna ask you a question. Are you having fun?

I’m having a blast.

Okay.

I mean, I’m having so much fun. I wish we were in person, and I wish we had two whiskeys in me, and I wish we had another hour, but those wishes aside, I’m having a wonderful time.

Okay. Me too. Go ahead. Wrapping fun.

Wrapping fire. Everyone gets the first one. Something you’ve changed your mind about as a grown up. Something that you maybe was a younger person.

Mulone has to spend So much time worrying.

It’s a great one. That is a great one. Even though I’m worrying a lot right now about Donald Trump.

All I do is worry.

That is a good one about our personal.

All I do is worry.

But it will come to you. The revelation will come to you.

That’s wonderful. Okay. This is a popular one right now. On the internet. I don’t know if you’ve seen this.

I know you’re a little bit on TikToks. You might have seen this. But I

don’t know who’s TikTok at Christmas time with my grandchildren. I’m trying to stay on Twitter. But it’s hard.

It’s hard. Okay. Well, people are getting asked on the internet, men mostly are getting asked. How often do you think about the Roman empire? Julius Caesar, etcetera.

Okay. I have an answer. Okay. Exactly. Never.

Right. I don’t get this one. I thought maybe you would because I thought it might be a gay straight thing. And I thought maybe it was straight men think about the Roman empire, but apparently apparently, that’s in it.

Okay. About

Sparta, but not about the Roman Empire.

You you are only a couple years junior of current president Joe Biden. There’s a lot of concern on Agita right now about his age. How confident are you that someone that is three years your senior is capable of leading us through these tumultuous times.

You know what is so interesting? The image that pushes people First of all, the man overcame stutter. He’s still stuttered sometimes, but he does the right thing, but his knees. I understand his knees. It literally it happens.

It sneaks up on you, but like I don’t jump off a curb anymore. Mhmm. I need to step down. And it’s that makes you seem older. I literally say to myself, oh, come on.

You got out of bed to pee. Don’t shuffle. So I

I take it you’re saying that there’s a real ailments, but might not limit your ability to I don’t know, oversee the government.

Yeah. The knees don’t really connect to the brain.

Yeah. Okay. Do you have a favorite Barry Zuckerberg bit comes to mind?

Yes. Wait a minute. Those are balls.

Okay. And finally, we did to the water boy. We didn’t get to coach Klein. We talked about it in the green room. My favorite spot, the Royal Orbison tattoo is maybe my favorite bit of yours, and I have to tell you when I first saw that as a teen, I did not know you were the funds.

I went home. I was telling my parents about this bit, and they’re like, yeah, that was the guy that was the fun. I was like, oh, really? Coach Klein is the funds. Anyway, final question.

Give us a rec. You said you you consume a lot of television. Your son’s a director. Give us something uplifting. That people should check out.

Okay. Two two eighteen eighty three.

Okay.

On Paramount.

Spin off of Yellowstone?

Yes. But it is an origin story. Yeah. And it is from soup to nuts, it is astounding. That’s number one.

Number two, is a show from South Korea, and it is called I crash landed onto you. I crash landed onto you.

Where could I find that? I’m interested.

You can find that on Netflix.

I will be checking that out.

One more on Britbox.

Yeah, please.

It is line of duty.

Oh, line of duty. Yeah.

I’m really shot through every episode.

Have you watched the French village? Have you seen the French village?

That was done a World War two. Am I right?

You should you should check out the French village.

Yes.

Yes. Sarah did a whole podcast dedicated to French Village. Henry, I’m honored that you spent this time with us. You have a new kids book coming out. Detective Duck.

You have a new buyout be coming out, which will be out in October. People should pre order that for sure. There’s detective Duck. That’s the book. I’ll be getting that for Toulouse.

She is ecologically aware and gets all of her friends together in order to save their pond. Lovely.

Lovely. It’s a lovely message, but we’ll be discussing it, promoting it at the Bulwark. And we’re just so grateful for you coming. Do you have anything else?

I do. I have something Okay. Sarah, I need you to send me your child’s name and your address so I can send him some Hank Zipsters

Amazing.

Who’s in the second grade. It’s in your children.

I do. I have to lose. She’s in kindergarten.

Alright. Well, then you have to send me the name, address, ZIP code, and their ages. Very important.

I will do that.

Alright.

I will send you my children and Sarah’s children, and everyone we know will be buying detective Duck when it comes out next month. How about that?

I will send you signed copies The one thing that I will tell you about the second grade Hank Zipser. Hank is short for Henry. Zipser was a woman who lived on the fourth floor. I thought she was Zippy. It is written in a font developed by a dad in Holland where it makes it easier for the I in the page to make friends.

Wow.

I love that.

Well, that’s so generous of you. You are clearly just the loveliest person and I would like you to know if you’re addicted to TV. I’m also I don’t normally look like this, but I’m on to be, and I’m better than Tim. Like, way better. If you’re gonna like me so much more than you like Tim.

Yeah. Mom, this will be worth sending me that stuff.

I promise you we’ll send it to you, and the Bulwark Community, you’re now in the Hall of Fame, and I’m sure all of our listeners and readers will be purchasing these books Thank you so much for taking the time, Henry. And I hope to do this again sometime. Maybe in person.

You know what? Me too. And what a pleasure to meet you bumps.

Thank you so much.

That’s amazing.