The Lines that Define our Lives

Welcome back to the Bulwark Coast Hollywood.

My name is Sunny Bunch from editor at the Bulwark. And I’m very pleased to be joined today by Brian Abrams. Now, Brian Abrams is the author of the new book. You you talking to me, The definitive guide to iconic movie quotes, it’s got a nice little, travis pickle here, little mini travis pickle, on the cover, to to remind you exactly which movie this, comes from. Brian is the author of Obama and oral history and party like a president.

He has written for the Washington Post Magazine and the lowbrow reader in addition to, being the author of this book. Thank you for being on the show today, Brian.

Thanks for having me, Sonny.

So, let’s talk. Let’s talk about this book. Because, in the intro, you said you had something like twice as many quotes that you wanted to include in this book. And your publisher very cruelly said, no. We gave you a certain number of pages.

You have to stick to them. So what was the what was the initial process of finding the great movie quotes like for you?

It’s a great question. I mean, I I don’t know if necessarily my publisher was like, hey, you need to cut it in half so much as I was very aware that’s what needed to happen. Like, I didn’t wanna create a book that was seven hundred pages long or five hundred pages long. This one’s like around three forty, which is like it’s thick. It’s good.

It’s like It’s a solid book, but and that’s about max. But the trouble that I ran into over the three years of writing it was I constantly, could not distinguish between, movies that we know backwards and forwards. And therefore, we know all of their lines. And so, therefore, you think, oh, these are popular, and I’m going to explore and figure out, where they’ve resonated in our culture. And there must be a story there.

And then you just kind of end up writing yourself into a cul de sac. There’s actually not that kind of story. And then other lines which objectively, you can point to and say, you know, this has made an impact And I can point to examples x, y, and z. Right? So that I think that’s like the main reason that I probably ended up writing about, you know, three hundred something lines as opposed to.

I think, I don’t know, a little over two hundred are in the book now, but the stuff that I wrote about and did not make any of the book. Whether it stays in like a Google Doc forever or I just like one day put it on my letterbox. It it they still help inform me when writing and reporting on the ones that did make it in, if that makes any sense.

Sure. Sure. So what’s what’s an example of the let’s let’s, look at, a bad movie quote from, you know, a, something that was just your head because you’ve seen it a million times and doesn’t actually make the cut. What what what would an example like that look like before we get to the good stuff? Before we get to the, you know, the real goal.

Bad bad meaning didn’t make it in the book, not bad meaning it’s a bad line. Okay. So I can name a ton, obviously. But the one that comes to mind right now is, Marlon Brando in one eyed Jacks. When, he’s in this fight at a bar with, Timothy, the character actor’s name, this gives me right now, big creepy guy, And he tells him to get up, you scum suckin pig, and he says it in his like Brando way.

And I I’m not gonna do the impression. But, I mean, I should, but I’m not going to. Since I was a kid, I always had it in my head that for that, like, the way he calls him a scum sucking pig was just like this jaw dropping moment for a Western in nineteen sixty one. And therefore, I I just had a curiosity if there was something there to explore whether on the profane side or just something. I and, it is a cool movie and it is a fun line.

But, you know, it’s not like, it’s not the first time the word scum is in a movie and it’s not like some major profanity breakthrough. Like, that’s, you know, you can find every, like, curse word in the book in the pre code era, you know. So but that was just like a blind alley that I went into because I think I just loved the movie so much. You know, speaking with people or, you know, taking notes during a a Blu ray commentary or gulping down, you know, books on westerns wherever you could look, and I came up with very little despite having written maybe five drafts over it. So that’s like a that’s a solid example of one that I probably spent weeks on that I shouldn’t have.

But lesson learned, you know, again, it helped me elsewhere.

Yeah. I mean, it’s it’s we’ll talk about your process of research and reporting here in a minute. Because it’s this is it’s not just your hot takes on the movies that you love. It’s, you know, their their interviews in here. There are, clearly, you’ve you’ve, you have taken advantage of the golden age of DVD whenever release ever made came with, like, an extensive commentary and documentary and all that.

It’s great. But let’s, it’s it’s interesting to think about the idea of personal things sticking in your head personally that aren’t necessarily, huge cultural moments. I mean, I, like, one one that always comes to mind for me, especially now that I have kids weirdly, is the there’s a line in ghostbusters, the original ghostbusters where they go into the library, and there’s a big stack of books And and, you know, race has something like, you know, this is just like the library, blah blah, and Peter Venkman is like, Yes. No human being would possibly stack books like that or something like that. And I say that line all the time, and and some people get it.

Some people don’t. But it is it’s clearly not a revolutionary revelatory line. It’s just something that sticks with you. How do you how do you make that judgment between sticks with you and impact on the culture, like, something that that transcends individual

Yeah. No, I love that question. I I, I mean, going back to what I said about my my struggle to make the distinctions, between, you know, whatever was in my personal bag and whatever out there may be something you can point to and say like, oh, okay. Everyone in the world, at one point or another absolutely knows this line whether they know the movie or not. Right?

But I I because of what you’re saying, I also, like, didn’t wanna overthink the logic of the curation. I mean, on on some level wanted to dive in and get lost in movies and just have an enthusiasm that hopefully is palpable, to the reader. But I’m aware that, there’s just, to your point about that library line in ghostbusters, which I I is not it’s not in my memory bank at all, but that’s really funny. There’s no escaping who you are. There’s no view from nowhere.

This curation does depend all on your perception. You know, you could assign this book to ten different authors and tell them, like, do, you know, Hollywood’s iconic lines, right? From all of history. And their lists may end up matching thirty five percent, forty percent. Everyone’s gonna have wizard of Oz in Chinatown or gold finger, right, or the lines from those movies, and then break off.

I mean, I know for a fact that I I wrote about a line that the grocery store clerk snarks to Elliot Gould in the long goodbye. Because I had this idea to include an item that spoke to fellow tortured cat dads everywhere. And, you know, that’s from seventy three. I don’t know how well you know that movie, but anyone who knows that movie absolutely knows the scene. I mean, I’m sure you’ve seen it.

It’s it’s right it’s right in the beginning. It’s right in the opening. He he walks out of his apartment. It’s like three in the morning. He stumbles into a piggly wiggly or whatever, and it’s, you know, trying trying to find a very specific brand of cat food.

Right. And and, You know, I wrote about that and instead like nineteen seventy two was Lady sings the Blues. And Billy d Will Saletan opening line, you want my arm to fall off while he’s holding the twenty out to Diana Ross. Like, that is objectively like, the more popular line from that era. Right?

So that’s just like, is that just a sign of me being like a white boy in the suburbs of Texas growing up having watched along goodbye is like a teenager and in my twenties and thirties and now. I mean, you know, probably, but I’m just saying that you are who you are. And so there’s gonna be a little of that in the curation no matter what. Right?

Yeah. I think you talked about this a little bit in the introduction of your book. But I I forget maybe maybe I was imagining it. The the there’s there’s a question about, rules. You you when you’re when you’re making a book like this, you to have rules because otherwise it could be two hundred quotes from ten movies.

It could be ten godfather quotes, ten you know, wizard of Oz quotes, ten citizen Cain quotes, whatever. You would you you you have to you have to sit there and say, I’m only gonna do one from one per movie, or I’m only gonna do one per Acra, one per director. How did you what were your limitations, your self imposed limitations here when you are sitting down to put together the list.

Yeah. I mean, you wanna have a balance, you know. I mean, you do, like, you recognize that, okay, a book that analyzes iconic movie lines. And as you mentioned, like, there may be in some cases that I do have, like, my own analysis I can bring, but I’m not I’m not so conceited enough to think that I have a hot take or even a lukewarm take on every single movie. That would be insane.

Like, I would not wanna read that person. But, even though they exist everywhere. But you, yeah, you do wanna have a balance of genre and, and, not to use an overused word, but representation in a sense of just like the essence of all kinds of different lines, different movies, different themes, And you’re right. Like Casablanca is a film that has like, you know, thirty amazing lines in it that everyone knows. And I think when, you know, when writing the entry for that, there is a way to shape it and, you know, be able to shoehorn and discuss here and there other lines, but I did focus on here is looking at you kid for that instance.

There’s also this other idea where I think Yeah. I mean, as you’d mentioned, the way the book is structured, it’s it’s mostly chronological. But there are these sort of, There are these detours where I’ve kinda broken up into little, like thematic sections, whether it’s universal horror, or, fifty sci fi or, you know, eighties baseball movies or even broken up by, like, auteur if it’s Billy Wilder, or Mel Brooks. There’s a section on Arnold Schwarzenegger lines obviously. But if each movie is assigned each line, I I don’t like the idea of it feeling as if it’s like an answer on jeopardy.

Right? Like, what is the line from this movie? And and the example I like to use, my brother brought this up to me. He’s like a big musical theater freak is that he was he called me and he goes like, Hey, how come hello hello gorgeous from funny girl? Isn’t the line that you write about, which is sort of the that’s Barbara Strisand’s line that is used it’s almost like a tagline, like an unspoken tagline for the film.

You you see it when, she uses it in her Brooklyn accent and, like, staring in the mirror and, it’s on all of the highlight clips on any awards show that does like a retrospective. You can always catch her. In the mirror in that one moment, but I opted not to write about Hello, gorgeous. Instead, I selected I’m a bagel on plateful of onion rolls, which is a popular line from the movie, and it’s toward the beginning of the film. And it just defines who she is, Fannie Bryce in the film.

It also defines Barbara’s persona at that time in her career. This kind of rebellious figure and showbiz and this outsider that famously cultivated, a queer fan base. And for that matter, just just outsiders of all stripes, which is maybe difficult to imagine now for film buffs that know her as like a figure who’s been in the Hollywood establishment for, you know, half a century. But once upon a time, she was someone very different. And, I’m a bagel on a plate full of onion rolls just kind of profoundly speaks to that for her audiences.

Yeah. I mean, it’s a again, it’s it’s just interesting to think of the different forms of curation and, you know, not just You know, you because you want the book to be surprising as well. You don’t want it to just be a rehash of, you know, the AFI hundred greatest lines. List, which is, you know, a fine list. I like the AFI.

I like I like listing things. I like, most of most of their choices in that. But Again, that’s a that’s a that’s a list that has, you know, six quotes from classic Casablanca or whatever. You know, it it’s got five, godfather quotes. All worthwhile additions, but you need something else, sir.

I mean, it it goes back to what we were discussing about, perspective. And and, you know, it all depends on where it comes from. And you think of the members of the American film Institute and, you know, what they consider to be like, the defining pieces of dialogue for Hollywood is not necessarily the lines that, you know, we’re echoed under, you know, the roots of, you know, however many millions of homes across the country. Right? Like, the one that I always point to is in the nineteen seventy three Blacksploitation drama, the Mac, with Max Julian, who, I don’t know, for how many listeners have seen it, I highly recommend it.

He plays, Goldy, this, ex con who goes back to his neighborhood in Oakland, and becomes a pimp. And his brother, Olinga, who played by Roger Mosley, is sort of the stand in for, like, a Bulwark Panther type who’s, you know, trying to spur mass organization in the neighborhood. And Mosley has this monologue that is everyone has heard it. Whether or not they’ve seen the film. They’ve heard it sampled on, like, millions and zillions of hip hop tracks.

Probably most famous is, Doctor. Dr. Dr. Tat tat from the chronic, but the I think the line people remember is he starts off just just lecturing his brother, Goldy that, like, hey, man, don’t you realize in order for us to make this thing work? We gotta get rid of the pimps and the pushers and the prostitutes and then start all over again clean.

So, you know, he is trying to change the ways of Goldy. Before his brother gets into deep. But that is just a snippet that has absolutely ricocheted throughout culture for decades. And through generations, but you won’t find it on the AFI list. And I’m not trying to, like, bash the AFI, although I guess that’s what we’re doing.

But to your point, that you wanna I mean, you just wanna shake it up and you wanna make it a more honest sort of, collection of of of the lines we all know and love?

No bashing here. We’re not bashing the AFI. We all love the AFI. The American film institute as a as a great organization, and, you know, their their list is very fine. I’m just saying it it doesn’t lend itself to a book like this.

Your book is, it’s full of, again, it’s it’s not just these are the quotes I here’s why I like them. There’s lots of, you know, research reporting, you know, looking back at archival interviews and that sort of thing, walk me through your process. So when you when you decide on a quote, how do you chase down either the participants, if they’re still alive, or the the archival stuff, if it’s if it’s a little older, what what work went into giving these quotes the greatest, context possible.

Do you remember, do you know from Dustell Dawn very well? Sure. Do you remember, like, Harvey Kitell has this really hammy, like, kind of Texas or southern accent and I don’t even think it’s Texas. It’s just kind of a vague, like, southern y kind of Colonel Sanders thing he’s doing. And there’s a moment in the film where, he just looks up and he just go he says something like he’s like, they’re all dead.

I’m sorry everybody’s dead. And I kept thinking of that over and over when I’m like looking up potential subjects to to call and discuss, you know, the context of, like, lines popularity for way back when, but, when I was when the book was commissioned to me, it was still in, like, mid twenty twenty. I mean, we were still in the height of the pandemic, and it was you know, I’m privileged to say that I was, you know, a member of the class that was allowed to work from home. And therefore, was able to use my phone a lot. And and, guess what?

Every screenwriter, in Hollywood was sitting at home, and they will take your call. Right? Like, if you just e find their email and tell them, like, do you have ten minutes to discuss them popular line that you’ve ever written in the history of your career. Of course, they’re gonna take that call. So that was a great start.

And it was I wouldn’t say that there was, like, such a mechanical method other than, you know, once you once you land on a line, you know, you just recognize what resources you could tap into. So if it’s, you know, if you’re talking about, you know, one on one interviews to help great. If you, use the opportunity to gulp down books and, you know, consume all the Bluray commentaries. I mean, that stuff we’re doing anyway, you might as well get paid for it. And you, you know, you surprise what you end up coming up with.

And sometimes you you end up putting two and two together on your own and You know, god forbid, a light bulb goes off once in a while.

Who, who were some of the people you talked to to give, folks a sense of the book. Again, the the book, again, is called you talking to me. The definitive guide to iconic movie quotes. It’s out Tuesday, September twenty six. You might listen to this.

Before them, but then you can pre order it. And that’s great on Amazon. People, you know, Amazon loves pre orders. But, who were some of the who were some of the screenwriters you talked to?

John Logan, Oscar winner for Gladiator. John Patrick Shannon Moonstruck, just to name a couple right off the top of my head. I’m I’m, I’m drawing a blank on everyone else, but there were there were dozens and, but also in in addition to that, you know, you spoke with, I spoke with scholars. Right? So Janine Basinger for one.

Toby Ron is like a western historian. I can come up with juicier names. I I did speak with Werner Herzog, about a Gire the wrath of god because there is a really funny line in that movie, toward the end where, for those who’ve seen it, it’s like this failed conquistador mission that was filmed on location in, like, South America, and it was this crazy sort of it was apocalypse now before apocalypse now in a lot of ways. And one of the conquistadors gets hit by an arrow. And he says the long arrows are getting fashionable and he falls into the ocean or in the river.

And, HerZock took my call. I mean, again, he was, like, stuck at home during the pandemic. And I ended up not using it in the book, but I I should put it somewhere to be honest. I don’t know where. Yeah.

But there were a number of instances like that. You know, Nancy Myers, I guess, is one Charlie Sykes, Amy Heckerling, who else am I forgetting? Steven DeSusa, who’s sort of a famous screenwriter for, you know, a dozen eighties action type flicks. Producers from, you know, tombstone and, Rocky?

No. It’s a great it’s I mean, look, again, everything in the in the individual entries gives give stuff more, context, which is, which is, again, wonderful. I mean, you you mentioned talking to John Logan from Gladiator, and he thought he thought the line that you, that you have in the book, you are, are you not entertained? Great line? I feel like this is, has become a meme of sorts.

We’ll get to the we’ll get to the meme application of movie quotes in a minute. But, you know, he thought that was gonna be the big trailer. Moment, and they kinda wound up not being.

He knew it was gold. That’s what he said. Right. But it it just it wasn’t Like, that wasn’t necessarily the first line right off the gate that I think people remembered there was The I’m Marcus Aurelius speech that, like, when Russell Crow takes off his mask and confronts Joaquin Phoenix, like, and that was the one that was, like, rumbling up the aisles when the teaser trailers were hitting for Gladiator. Like, that, I think that one was just as famous around the time, but then Jay z ends up sampling the r u entertained, and it did they all take a life of their own.

Right? They all kind of shape and become, their own thing. Like, Friday’s by Felicia is, like, the greatest example of that. You know, that’s a that’s a line that was a complete throwaway for ice cube and DJ poo when they wrote that script. And and, you know, it may very well have just been actually, I think it was just like ad lived on set.

And it wasn’t it wasn’t really there was no emphasis on it in the filmmakers minds at the time. Right? And then when it comes out, it comes out in, like, the middle of nineteen ninety five to stoner stoner comedy that only had, like, so much of an audience. Found a much wider base once it hit video for years and years and years and people would go back and rent it. It would start with stoners and then, of course, their cousins and their aunts and their sisters and their older sisters, whoever would watch it.

And it ends up you know, that a throwaway line like by Felicia, gets adopted by divas on Black Reality TV series. Right? And it’s kind of divorced from this original context of a Stoner comedy. And it just becomes part of the lexicon, and it’s really funny how that happens. But that’s that’s not the first example of something like that, but that’s the prime one that comes to mind.

Yeah. I I I mean, I am fascinated just from a sociological perspective on the how how a movie line evolves into a cult phenomenon, you know. I mean, as as somebody who spent most of my twenties trading, you know, old school quotes or Anchorman quotes or Zoolander quote, Right? Like, that that’s, like, the the, you know, the mid the early the early college ops in, in, I don’t know, curriculum. Right?

That’s that’s what you watched in in code, treat if you graduated when I did. Yeah. I mean, row exactly. You know, how movies like that, a lot of them, a lot of which did either k or not very well at theatrically, but then, you know, start circulating on DVD, start playing on a loop on HBO or or elsewhere, you know, and then they become classics because just through sheer force of repetition, as much as as much as anything else. I mean, when you when you were looking at this, were there were there lines that were obvious, like, Okay.

In the theaters, this killed the slave, and has has stuck with everybody ever since, as opposed to the ones that grew over time, as opposed to the ones that, you know, evolved into something else.

Yeah. I mean, it’s funny. It’s like, you know, market forces dictate this stuff. Right? I mean, there may be, you know, a comedy like a fast times at Ridgemont High that you know, universal studios wouldn’t give a chance to because they just didn’t have faith in it.

Wouldn’t put it on as many screens. Wouldn’t put it on as many billboards advertising wise. And then something like, you know, Star Trek to the wrath of Khan actually don’t I think that was paramount, but nonetheless, would, you know, dominate, you know, that year that summer. Right? And so fast times would have to wait and it would have more of a fair shot in the video store aisles, which, you know, wasn’t something that, you know, some forgotten war in the forties would have a shot of doing if it didn’t do well in the box office.

But then again, more people went to the movies in the forties. So it’s just a it’s a different universe, not a fair comparison. But, you know, you can look at, Frankly, my dear, I don’t give a damn from gone with the wind and know that was a hit right off the bat. I mean, that was just a smash hit that everyone went to see. In nineteen thirty nine because everyone was going to see movies in nineteen thirty nine.

But, you know, you also have others that Yeah. They they do, you know, find their own audiences. And, like, how how do people you know, all get together and like decide to make the entire script from the big like, part of their everyday lexicon, is it, like, just do we all share the same one, like, rotted broken brain to some degree? I mean, I think we do. But I think there’s like a I mean, I think that the sweeter answer to that is that, you can find familiarity in movie lines.

Right? Like, I you could you could say that, like, there’s a reference bro out there who’s just, like, constantly making movie quotes and you just, like, don’t wanna talk to him at work. But I I think the the nicer way to put it is that it’s a it’s a way find a commonality between people. That was not necessarily what I had in mind while writing the book, but I realize it’s true.

No. Totally. I mean, look, this is, there’s something to be said for shared culture and, and and movie quotes become shared culture, again, through kind of force of repetition, but also familiarity. It’s a it’s a passcode of sorts. You know, we understand the same things.

We come from the same place. We own we we we are sympatico. You see you see this as the book goes along, I think. And and I could I I you could you can kind of track it, especially as as the movies get a little newer, a little younger. The the rise of the meme modification of the movie quotes, you know, the use of the movie quote as this this kind of instant shorthand story Here’s a picture and a quote, and this is what this means in this tweet that I am tweeting at you.

Yeah.

Which is which is interesting. And very I feel like it’s that is a it is a almost evolution in language without I I mean, I that sounds dumb just saying it out loud, but it feels like

Yeah.

It’s like the water feels like a

way for, like, the past twenty five years. Right? Like, we’re not actually standing add a water cooler anymore, but you’re just kind of passing off gifts of Russell Crow or of whoever. Right? And and I already interrupt there, but I just, like, I felt like I I knew you were going there.

I if you wanna finish, I apologize.

No. That’s no. That that I mean, that’s right. I but it it it does it does feel like the lines have changed a little bit over over the years in terms of how we deploy them and how we think about them. Yeah.

I guess I I think that I mean, the one thing I that kept coming to mind to me when you would run across, you know, the memeification of lines, like, know, what’s the one from captain Phillips. Right? Like, look at me. I’m the captain now. I I don’t On

the captain.

Like, there are rare instances. Like, I think one is a good instance. I think another instance is get in loser. We’re going shopping from mean girls and how that was that became like a a really popular meme for, for, like, the mega, like, fans in twenty sixteen. Right?

There’s, like, it’s it’s Trump. Like, he’s, like, pointing a pistol. If you remember the meme, he’s, like, pointing a pistol at a car and he’s, like, getting loser. We’re making Merrick great again. Like, those Those are, like, examples where I feel like you can make the case that the meme made the line.

Like, the it’s it’s few and far between, but mostly, I feel like the meme is in response to the line. Right? Like, in other words, like, the line is famous regardless of whether social media exists or not. It’s just social media is the, the way in which we express you know, our our love for the line or or just have some sort of good use for it.

I I have my this is my one big complaint. About your book. Okay. I do have a I am one complaint. I’m gonna lay it on you right now.

And that’s the quote from Get Out, which, I I strongly, I strongly think that now you’re in the sunken place, which is the quote that you use Mhmm. Is is The sunken place is an interesting concept, but the the best line from the movie is I would have voted for Obama a third time. If I could. Because of the meme, because the meme, you know, that that made that whole, it it’s it speaks so, broadly to an entire mindset and and became such a such a good, valuable meme that it it it really does, stand out from that movie. I’m sorry.

I don’t I don’t mean to I don’t mean to drag you down if my petty gripes,

I’m bleeding. I mean, if that’s really complaint, then I’m I’m in good shape. I I, I anticipated that And the Obama line is written about in the get out entry.

It is. So it is.

So so I so thankfully, I covered that base. You know, my brother with Hello, gorgeous is another example entirely, but, you know, you can’t please family.

Not That’s true. Did you, Abby? I’m curious about the writing of the book. Did you did you send that to your editor and he said, well, why why not why this one and not this one? Did did he have suggestions, recommendations?

Yeah.

Did he did he see the big list? Did he see the following thing before you started writing?

I think if if I remember correctly, you know, I I had written too much. I had cut it down. I sent in a large version. And he was like, hey, this is a hundred thirty thousand words. You need to make it, like, ninety max.

And he’s like, and even then, I don’t know. So I chopped away and chopped away once I presented him something around eighty five or ninety thousand words. Then, yeah, he did comb through And and there were moments when I think he was like, you know, it’s weird that x line isn’t in there. And maybe you have you considered that. And so that was a discussion.

And, but it may be whatever line it may have been, like, open the pod bay doors how, I think, was lying that he was like, that’s you know, from two thousand one, a space odyssey. He’s like he’s like, it’s it’s just weird to me that that’s not in here. And I was like, well, I just don’t know how much of a story there is, but There are sidebars and lists throughout. And so I I did find a good place for it. And so so he wasn’t too picky about that stuff.

He kinda gave me my freedom there. Although he would run across entries and be like, hey, you know, this one’s a dud. I really don’t think it’s a story that, you know, the story’s not there, and I was, like, happy to cut it. I mean, so, I mean, you’ll shoot your eye out kid from a Christmas story. I love the movie, adorable line that’s, like, echoed throughout the entire film.

And in the end, the the line itself just that’s just the example that comes to mind of one that just, like, wasn’t quite up to the test. And so Yeah.

You know? Well, the the two thousand one sidebar, was interesting too because it led to I if I remember correctly, that’s in a sidebar about different between the novel and the adaptation. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Which is an interesting thing to look at. You know, what are the what do these classic lines look like in the original source material?

Right. Yeah. I hardly remember it actually at this point. But at yeah.

Three three cheers for editors. That’s my point. My my point is, you know, the editors, the real heroes, your this it’s it’s a it’s a great looking book, in terms of the actual physical, you know, flipping through the pages. It’s got tons of stills from the movies, you know, posters, that sort of thing. Is that something that the folks at Hashhet put together?

This is published by workman Publishing, which is a a part of the Hashhet group.

Right.

Is that was that something that, that they put together? Where did you send them, you know, here alright. Here’s a movie. Here’s the still I want from it. How did that work?

So, will workmen who they published my first book party like a president and, hashet acquired them maybe two years ago or so. Workman is famous for this kind of style of book. This kind of pickup and put down, right? Like the and and something that’s photo friendly, kind of a physical layout. Right?

It’s not just, like, necessarily you know, I don’t know what’s an example, like, you know, a memoir that’s just pure prose. Nothing wrong with that. Of course, we read those every day. So so, like, they’re just really good at that. They have this sort of if I were to describe their philosophy, and and I’m like a I’m like a workman believer the way I think of how they think of books is like they see books as things you buy for others.

Right? Like, they understand them as gifts. So I think that’s what you’re kind of like hovering around where it it feels it just feels like something you pick up, and you’re like, oh, this is cool. I wanna, like, score this for somebody. Or it turns off.

I shouldn’t get it for your And so, but when it comes to, like, photo layouts, I I did have feedback in all of that. I he was really good. My editor, like, you know, I mean, you know, maybe to his dismay, like keeping me involved in the process till the very end and kind of shifting around photos to see where they fit best. And So that was, like, very generous of him to allow me in there because he knows I’m, like, kind of a psycho on that level and wanted to be involved. You can’t help it?

No. It’s I I mean, look. And, again, the the the layout of this book is a big selling point. If you if you are looking for you’re looking for a gift for dad or mom, you know, somebody the movie buff in your family, this is a this will this will make a nice little tree under the tree or earlier birthdays, whatever. So definitely think about that for the the person in your life.

I, are there there was one last, one last thing I wanted to to ask you, and it involves, again, the screenwriters you talked to, there’s there’s a moment in your in your book where you’re talking about writers, you know, it it felt and I I’ll take it back. I’d there it feels like there’s a tension in in between some of the how some of the writers talk about their process because a couple of them are like, well, you can’t write a great line. You can’t just sit down and write a great line. That’s not how it works. And others are like, I knew that was a great line.

The minute I wrote it, that was that was a that was a great one right there. That was gonna be a hit. What when in your conversations with them, how did they how did they think about, the idea of great lines as opposed to a great script, which, you know, I’ve read a lot of scripts. Scripts are great when they are structured well in addition to having, you know, the good lines, the good dialogue, etcetera, you know, script script writing a structure. And I and anytime I ask a screenwriter about a specific neural line, they’re always like, ah, no, it just was part of the part of the story here, I’m rambling.

What did they say? What did they tell you?

Yeah. Trust the process. Right? They all have their own version of that. I’m sure.

I, but but I that’s that’s an interesting, like, comparison you made. I mean, the the I think the entry you’re talking about is there’s no crying in baseball from a league of their own from, from, Lolgans and Babalu Mandel. And, you know, they and that was not my one on one interview with them, they gave this extensive interview about ten years ago and talked about how like, they they did almost say it, like, with a with a little bit of disdain, this idea of, like, oh, we’re gonna type out a line and know that that’s gonna get printed on t shirts. Right? Like, or bumper stickers or whatever.

Like, they were like, no. No. No. We are committed to, like, fleshing out who you know, dugan or whatever Tom Hanks’ drunken, manager’s name was in that movie. Like, they were just committed to making that character feel as real as they could in a Hollywood movie.

But it it I mean, you would be lying if you didn’t know that, like, if you typed out something, like, what we’ve got here is a failure to communicate, which is how it was typed, and then Struthers Martin later pronounced it without the a. What we got here is failure to communicate from cool hand Luke. Like, like, the screenwriter knew that was a solid line. I mean, sometimes when you’re writing, you’re just like, okay, I got this. Although there’s plenty of times when you write and you feel like you’re on fire and you turn it in and the editor is like, actually, no.

We need to have a talk.

I I would never. All of my writing is gold. So I don’t that does not, you know. One of

the one of the screen writers was told me how, I think it was Barry Bloestin from one of the coat coming to America screenwriters talked about how when, you know, he would turn in his draft to, you know, the studio or the producer or whoever it was, and he knows that notes are coming. He would just allow himself when the notes come. He would allow himself twenty four hours. Not to respond, but be able to just say fuck you, go fuck yourself to him, you know, to to himself in the privacy of his home And then the next day, you know, take a look at it, respond like a sophisticated adult, like, a responsible screenwriter who is maintaining a decent career, and, go from there, which is, by the way, like, terrific advice. I mean, you know, just going forward, like, it just taught me, like, Brian There are plenty of emails that you can just write and just keep in the drafts box.

That’s it. Yeah. What we all do is Draft. Draft folders are keyed to any, adult relationship with anyone you wanna have. Alright.

Well, I always like to close these interviews by asking if there’s anything I should have asked. If you think there’s, anything folks know about you talking to me, the definitive guide to iconic movie quotes out Tuesday, September twenty six.

I would just say that, feel free to drag me on Twitter if there’s a line that I missed and you have a good case as to why. I’m I’m happy to take your lickins.

Alright. That is that is it for this week’s show. Thank you for being on show, Brian. I really appreciate it.

Thank you, Sunny.

My name is Sunny Bunch. Once again, I am culture editor at the Bulwark, and I will be back next week with another episode of the Bulwark goes silent, but we’ll see you guys then.