Taylor Swift’s MAGA Meltdown! | Ballot Box with Bill & Tim

Hey, guys. It’s Tim. I’ve been doing a show with Bill Crystal live on YouTube on Tuesday nights where we discuss politics and, you know, do a little bit of a historical perspective. He tells old Dan quail stories, and, we’ve been getting a bunch of feedback that y’all want it in the podcast feed as well. So that is what’s coming to you next later this afternoon this evening, depending on what time zone you’re in, I will also be back with the next level, me, JBL and Sarah Longwell be bopping as usual.

Talk to you then.

When I talk about Taylor Swift, I say it’s it’s so obvious to me. She’s the perfect vehicle to go to those low propensity white liberal women. And and by the way, we can do this as well. We don’t have a terrorist on our side, but you know who we have. We have kid rock, We have Ted Nugit.

We have influencers. Right. We have all these people, John VOit. We have people that can come out and use their audiences. Number one, And and and I want an army of Scott Presslers at every kid rock event and every Ted Nugin event.

And I hope, by the way, I need to talk to those guys about this because I’ve got this idea.

Bill Chris still. Well, we always like to keep you on your toes. Welcome to the ballot box with Bill and Tim. Bill, is John Boyd still alive? Is my first question for you?

Is he is he on the mortal coil? That’s

that’s harsh. I don’t know. I met him when I was still, like, ten years ago, maybe at the Fox Green Room when I was in that world. I think he is. I think he’s with us, and I hope he stays well and healthy.

I do. I hope he stays well.

I don’t think he quite has Taylor Swiss reach. I mean, who am I to say though? I’m out of touch with popular You know? Maybe there’s a massive number of John void fans who are slightly not quite as, you know, obvious or prominent tell us.

Yeah. I think it’s pretty clear just by looking at the spotify listens that to at least that ten new ten newton’s more of an apples to apples. Bearison. I think it’s pretty clear that he’s not there. Interesting.

That’s my friend, Pizza Gay Jack, Posobiak. I don’t know if you know him, but, the prominent figure on the right. I I’m sure everybody watching this has been very familiar about the tailored arrangement syndrome that’s happening on the right that AB Stotted Roadabouts. ABley and the Bulwark this morning. But I I thought it was worth just talking a little bit about it’s one thing for Jesse Waters, cable news, grifters.

Is it the primary is not interesting. These guys gotta finish fill fill an hour, you know, that speech, that’s from the turning point action event today. And this is from, you know, the trump wing of the party. Right? We had a grassroots activism kind of a gathering in in Las Vegas today.

And and several of them were bringing this up, this sci op that’s happening with Taylor Swift. What what’s the I I guess that’s my question, Bill. Don’t know if you can see my face if you’re listening on the podcast page.

I’m with you. I mean, I myself I discussed this is White Cliff jean on Friday before in the green room. Before I being on Harryville, would you like that depth, that depth?

I did. And the the Fuji, did you get did you get into the Fuji?

With the food cheese, you know. Right? We actually I, you know, it’s funny. I don’t really know much about him, to be honest, though, I, of course, met up on him a little bit, and it seems like an funny fellow, but I hadn’t realized. So I The Ari asks on Friday, I feel like you’re outraged in the week basically fall back Friday he calls it.

And I I without even thinking about him and him being from Haiti and having a it was his group, right, called the Yeah. That’s what he said. I and my outreach was Governor Abbott in Texas, you know, with the barbed wire and then defying the federal government and stuff. So that was a good, that was good luck that he he was very he’s pro refugee. I guess what, I should have known that from the name of group, which I shouldn’t know the name of this group, but I’m kind of out of touch.

I feel a culture. Anyway, I’m throwing

my my club, that’s about the, about the Taylor Swift, drama.

Pro white with peanut butter and pro taylor. So why are they so you tell me you’re more a better analyst to this than I am. Why are they obsessed with jealous of resentful love? Tattail of swift. And

So I so I gotta tell you. I get I really do understand the resent full grievance jealousy element of it. Right? There’s a misogyny element to this. Of course, there is a a everything comes back to the high school cafeteria.

I’m a very like, the high school cafeteria of life theorem is is something that I strictly abide to. And, you know, I mean, It’s the pretty girl. It’s the prom girl and the face and the football player, you know, the handsome football player. Right? So there’s a an element of that, the jealousy, the the, you know, dominant culture, the kind of this there’s always this element of the right.

There’s always the world in that daily element of the right, now. It’s kind of some soon the right. This, you know, you have to be counterculture. You have to be against whatever, you know, wherever the trends are going. So that’s I I I do understand all that.

I mean, it’s it’s preposterous. Like, the theory that it’s an op is ridiculous, but But to blanch against those two, like, make sense in a MAGa media setting. Right? Like, this is what Ben Shapiro’s whole you know, the whole daily wire ecosystem exists on this. So I could be like, we are counter the the liberal cultural, hegemony.

The grassroots side of it though is what I don’t. I really can’t figure. And I and I think that The best answer I have is I think that they have convinced themselves that Taylor Swift is a real threat. And that this is some effort to neutralize it. And the reason why I say that is, when I was at, turning point USA thing, interviewing people, Taylor kind of came up.

This was before all this. I mean, obviously, she’s, you know, in in the news and in pop culture. It was before, like, really hit this fever pitch in political world. And a couple people said to me, yeah. I’m just I’m worried about the women and the turnout that’s gonna happen, you know, with women young white women with Roe and with Taylor Swift, and that they’re gonna activate them.

And that might be the one thing that keeps us out of power. I know I’ve I’ve literally heard people in the around the band in war room world, make that point. And so I I think it’s possible that they’ve just psyched themselves out to such a degree that they think that this is a big Achilles heel and and and as such, they need to, like, respond to it in some way and they’re responding it to to it in the most you know, in the in in a way most suited for lunatics imaginable. So that that’s the best exclamation ex explanation I got for you.

No. That’s good. I mean, I I think that last part is what’s interesting. That is, I suppose it’s not crazy to worry that major cultural figures are kind of on the other side. She’s not that political, but I think she endorsed Biden in twenty twenty and did a little overturn out stuff.

And he’s like, he didn’t add for I don’t know what he’s, like, provenax. Right? So let’s really

Kelsey. Yeah. Travis Kelsey. Yeah, does it add for Pfizer?

And so, I mean

It’s it’s crazy. We’re doing pharmaceutical company ad now codes you left.

Yeah. It’s been a long

it’s a long strange trip where we’ve been on. Yeah.

Be being a billionaire, which I take it, she probably is. Being, an out of a football star and doing a pharmaceutical company. I did three more. Mainstream. I’m gonna say center right American things.

I mean, I’m old enough to remember the left didn’t like the NFL much. They didn’t like the concussions. They weren’t crazy about that incidentally, you know, and at all that, They didn’t like pharma, it’s the left that didn’t like pharma, and of course, you know, and they had a suspicion of kind of middlebrow pop popular culture. Yeah.

It’s particularly middle ground American country ish type.

This is like where

she started. Yeah.

Right. Right. I’m kinda comfortable with capitalism. You say American, and now the right thing is, I think that is revealing. It is an anti American right in some ways, or anti current American right.

It really does bring home. I don’t know how grassroots it is. I don’t know what to do, but it sort of brings on how much they like in America, a fictitious America that didn’t seven, but of nineteen fifty five or something. And they really dislike anything that is big, you know, successful popular almost in in current America, unless it’s from in their little, not little, their big subculture of current America, you know.

Yeah. I read about I I wrote about this. Was one of my anytime I write about music, it’s my least red items on the Bullwark dot com. So I’ve I’m gonna re share it now. But I went to Lalapalooza Brazil.

Like, maybe last year, two years. It was my, gift to myself went after the COVID lockdown. And, you know, there’s some Brazilian accents, some Brazilian food there, but but, like, it’s it was really American. Right. Like, the main acts were all from America.

Yeah. The the the concessions of, like, you know, Budwise are Domino’s and, you know, Kentucky fried. I mean, like, literally, it was it was if you felt like you’re an American mall there when you’re going to the concessions and you know, it and the Brazilians were all super into that. Right? And it it, like, occurred to me.

And I was wondering if they said that that this is now like, an Ethema to Meg. Right. Like, none of these big big acts. So, like, the the idea that, you know, what was kind of the stereotypical right wing, Reagan era. Oh, you know, you Americans are so brash and you’re exporting McDonald’s all over the world and your imperialists and all this.

It’s like the, like, Maga doesn’t like that anymore. Like, they don’t like any of these people, any of these musicians. They don’t they don’t like the fact that it’s it’s very diverse, you know, that I’ll, you know, I’ll, like, say one of the main, musicians I saw there was doja Canada is this, like, you know, kind of mixed race, Jewish woman. Right? Like, they’re don’t they’re not, like, all of that.

They’re hostile to. And and I think that the there really is, like, an l a strain of it, an element that’s, like, Well, I like America in the vague sense, but I don’t like America as it really exists. Yeah. And that anti American element of it you know, it’s like that strain ties through everything, right? Like, why you could not wanna overthrow the government?

Why we don’t trust, you know, any of these people? So I don’t know. I just I guess my last thing of this is, like, do you and there’s always a jealousy, you know, at, like, the RNC convention, you know, over the years that, like, the celebrities were bad. Right? Like, that there was always, like, a little bit of late and jealousy there and, and, you know, some great bitterness towards Like, do you remember anything like this?

Just like like such a deranged response?

So, you know, it’s funny. I was thinking about this as those coming into DC into this from home, half an hour ago having, some dinner there. And I was thinking, you know, it’s just just that question. Actually, you know, weirdly, so I was Dan Gross chief of staff, and Dancro gave a slightly famous speech in nineteen ninety two, which was a sober speech about the causes of riots a family break up and all this, but he foolishly as well as we, used, sort of one example for pop culture where Murphy Brown, which was that a very popular TV show, which of course I hadn’t really seen. So it was, like, clueless about it.

I had had a baby out of wedlock, and it was treated as kind of a joke on the show and kind of a lighthearted thing. And he was making a point that the prospects aren’t as good, and we should be more serious about the culture of marriage. I mean, it was very what struck me as it was earnest. It was probably lit by eyes. Kandesburga who played Murphy Brown made fun of Dan Quail.

I’m not sure. I don’t think we necessarily won that showdown. But that was sort of like, a, you know, a kind of polite little jive at Hollywood for being, you know, lefty on, on social and cultural values. And and making light of a sort of old fashioned bourgeois or whatever, you know, sense of the family and all this. That was kind of what the right.

That was right, you know, taking on Hollywood, and he didn’t think of now we’re so far beyond that in terms of, well, we’re not even comparable. Right? Craziness, the hostility, the vitriol, the conspiracy theories. There was no, you know, it was like a totally different So that struck me as

I’m glad you brought that up because, well, hey, it’s thirty two years ago.

So far. Right?

Yeah. It’s thirty two years ago, they’ve learned nothing. Right? So for starters, like, as you said, like, that was not a big winner for Dan Quail. So you’ve learned learned nothing over thirty two years about picking these fights.

But the other the key difference there is, like, whatever you to whatever you think about that policy critique, not really for me. But that, like, shouldn’t I it was a pa it was it was a it was a substantive thing. Absolutely. We should be trying to encouraging kids that have to have two parents and like that’s better for outcomes.

It was two sentences at a thirty minute speech. The quoted James Two Wilson, the political scientist, and about a family. Yeah. Whatever one thinks of it is that it was artist, and it was using the Holly. And Holly was a little bit of a whipping boy really for for conservatives at the time.

They were out of touch. They were wealthy liberals, but it was such a conventional critique of a kind of limousine liberalism. Let’s call it. And, you know, I think Candiceburg was sort of well known to me to be a a liberal, a democrat. But again, it was nothing.

There’s nothing like the personal attack, the kind of, you know, and nothing of the conspiracy theories. They’re out to get us. This is an op. That is the amazing part. Do you think that goes deep?

People really believe that. This is a deep state of operation. This is like

I do. I I I I don’t the thing that they really know what it means Right? And, you know, again, just to just drop down a slip on, like, on the Canvas working thing. Right? Like, that’s what’s missing here.

Right? Like, there’s no substantive, like, I don’t like Taylor Swift because she’s saying about this. I I guess the closest thing is that Travis Kelsey did the the, I guess, we’re against vaccines now. I get the closest associative criticism is anti vax. Right?

But there’s no policy criticism. And then the conspiracy, there’s no the the, like, they they can’t even offer, like, what exactly the conspiracy is. Right? Like, Vivint, when somebody’s out there, like, they’re helping the Chiefs win. Just professors that she’s been four of the last six Super Bowls.

Like, and then then it’s like, why and to what end? And and what are, you know, what are they doing? So I don’t I don’t think that people I don’t think that your average person listening, like, has thought about it deeply enough to really think Yes. Joe Biden and Roger Gadell and George Sores and Taylor Swift, all met. And they’re like, we’re gonna pick this handsome football player.

We’re gonna, you know, I don’t think they really think that But I do think that they think that forces vaguely defined are out to get them.

Right.

And and that includes the government and includes the most popular celebrities in the world and it even includes football players now and it includes big pharma. And there’s something happening that they don’t like. And and I and I think that that has sunk in with people.

Yeah. The nine is the other criticism like that. I guess now that they think about it is the typical or I’ve seen, yeah, lyrics and it’s bad for kids. And again, whatever one thinks of it may over dumb, but, you know, it was like a normal, you might say culture. There was a normal, cultural, conservative reaction to not always correct, but understandable to I don’t know, changes the culture into Hollywood.

Sure. This is not normal. This is, like, goes out of its way to be insanely conspiratorial. And that seems important to it. I guess that’s what I’m saying.

And I don’t know if two million people believe this or twenty million or sixty million. I don’t think most, you know, from supporters believe it or even care about it, but but it is it shows, I don’t know, but somehow the whole conspiracy side of it, they’re they’re out to get you side of it. Yes. Not they’re foolish. That’s very bad for kids to see this, it’s wrong, and they’re too cavalier about the effects of it.

But they’re out to get you, and it’s all a massive conspiracy. That is really always was important, I guess, for for Trump to some degree, but has really become so central to the twenty twenty four version of Trump and Madizing I mean, trump himself this way. Let’s suffer.

I think I think that it’s mill it’s millions. It’s definitely million people, again, not necessarily millions people that believe, I specifically think Taylor swift applauded with Joe Biden, but that believe that these people are not to get us and they’re they’re machinations and I can’t see and they’re doing this. And I do think that’s central to Trump, and I do think as you talked about very often about the contingency of leadership, like leadership does matter, who is in there does matter? Like, like, yes, there would be crazy conservative talk radio hosts saying crazy conspiratorial shit no matter who was the Republican nominee. Right?

But Trump’s just Like, not a, like, it almost understates it to say it creates a permission structure. He, like, he fans the planes of it. Right? Like, it is it is central to his ethos. He pushes it, and he makes it much easier.

Like, you don’t have to like, if you’re Vivic, don’t have to, you know, if the party was being run by Mitt Romney, you would feel very concerned that you would be chastised and have your hand slapped and not likely to get a cabinet position or whatever he wants. If you’re going out there saying that Joe Biden is rigging the NFL because of Blob something something something, Travis KEL detective Pfizer shot. Right? If Mitt Romney is gonna be the rubric nominee, you would not send that tweet because you want to go up the ranks You don’t have that same concern. Like, you as you as you assess Trump, you think it I maybe this helps me.

Like, this could actively I get worse. It is neutral at best helps me. And I and I think that that, you know, that is how he kind of enables and exacerbates the culture of this crazy talk.

Agreed.

So there you go. Alright. That’s fine. Taylor Swift. I wanted to get to you also on, the full list, our friend, Alapundit, over at, the dispatch, wrote a newsletter, yesterday that I lied to Alapundit’s awesome.

If you don’t read them, And he referenced a article that, our friend, Michael Wood, who ran for Connexus, another good man, wrote for the Bulwark about how Nikki Haley should in these last what do we got here? Four we still have four weeks. This is gonna be the longest South Carolina ever. In the last few weeks until South Carolina that that Nikki Haley just kind of let the gloves off that, essentially do the what this chain he did. Speak the truth about Trump, rip off his face, you know, there’s you got nothing left to lose.

And and, I’m I’m paraphrasing Michael. He he made this argument in a much more cher chilean and and sober minded and and and, convincing way that I just did. But that that was the gist of it. Allah, was, you know, and then then there’s the other half of the other side of the coin, which is, you know, your Carl Rose, your Republican pundit class. It’s like Ross stealthat wrote about this in New York Times, like, Nikki should really try to win and and she should not attack Trump or not do anything that might hurt her standing with Trump voters and, you know, about she should do whatever it can to to increase her vote percentage, like, four points.

And, Allaha took, like, a middle ground and said, well, maybe she can go with half list. Right? Like, maybe the right thing to do is is is kind of what she’s been doing. Be more aggressive towards Trump. Try to strike a middle ground.

Don’t really pull your punches, but, you know, don’t go out there and make arguments that make you sound like Bill Crystal and Tim Miller on MSNBC. Right? So, he didn’t say that per se, but, again, that was that was the gist of the advice. So so on on those categories, how do you assess what Nikki Haley should be doing here in the final twenty four days between South Carolina between now and South Carolina.

Yeah. I’m with Paul Aponte. I guess, now writes under his actual name, not his No,

that’s a good point. He’d Nick Cataggio, so I can say that.

It’s long held, you know, pending from for his blog and for his photos. I’m I’m sort of for the I I’ve I’m more sympathetic to the half Liz as a tactic than I think I was a few weeks ago where I thought, you know, you just gotta do as much damage to Trump and the only way to do that is to tell the truth and just to call them out totally. But, you know, I she’s done this very somewhat tentative step by step going from really almost no criticism to some muted criticism to, you know, he really is past problems and, you know, he’s, he’s kind of doddering old guy and also, and then going a little tougher on him. I think jewelry was right in the trial. JBL had a terrific, newsletter today.

So they’re making fun of Nikki Haley for a month ago, she had no opinion on this trouser and followed it. Now she thinks the jury has made the right decision. And thinking really studied up a lot on the evidence and the rules of civil civil procedure something in the last one. And you can make fun of her, but I think it’s a little unfair and a little and I think she’s doing more damage. I’ve got to say with this step by step, approach.

I I think she could be doing more damage to Trump than I would have expected. And I I hope she gets as many votes as possible in in South Sarah Longwell. While criticizing him, but I’m not quite willing to be quite as judgmental, but how far she goes with criticizing him, because her staying in, the longest she can stay in, for me means getting thirty five, forty percent of the vote in state after state. I don’t think she’d be expected to drop out if she can get that percentage at least in Super Tuesday. I just think it does get more voters and dependent voters, and some chunk of the Republican voters used to not voting for Trump, and in a way voting against Trump, you know.

And I think that makes them more available to dessert, to be persuaded to desert trump in the general election. So I think she’s doing good for the for the anti jump cause. I don’t think she’ll be the nominee, but I I wish her well, and I hope she does well in South Carolina. I hope a lot of independence come over and go further. And in the subsequent, there are a lot of open primaries on Super Tuesday as soon as she does well enough as South Carolina to to the last till Super Tuesday.

And I don’t worry quite as much as JBL does. She’ll end up endorsing Trump, and that will undo all the damage she’s done. I I don’t think that’s really the way it works. If you’re really in a state where she’s campaigning against Trump, the nominal endorsement, I don’t think it really makes up for it any more than Kennedy’s Carter did. So, I mean, I’m, I’m probably being excessively optimistic about the damage that he can do, but I But, you know, compared to what.

Right? I think it I just I

just we need kind of a happy juice sponsored for this thing, but I just wanna know what Bill Crystal’s on some week because it was, like, last week we’re together during the New Hampshire primary, you’re down. It was just it was the end of the Republic. And here we are trying to trying to really shine this turd. Yeah, I I don’t I guess I’ll take the last part of this because I don’t really think it matters. I was I I I think if people have not read Michael woods article on the bulwark dot com, you should go check it out and and sign up.

So sign up for our fees. We have a lot ton of free stuff there. It’s you got a good email newsletter from JBL and and, and others when we have, interesting articles, we’ll get them to your in your in your inbox. And and Michael Woods piece was, I thought compelling about why I think he should just speak the truth about Trump. I I’m okay with the argument that maybe dialing it back a little bit, for political ends, you know, in order to extend her campaign, has some value.

I don’t I don’t know that I share your view about the endorsement, though. I I I I don’t think it’s a huge massive deal if Nikio endorses them. But the but the manner in which she does and how she sa and what how she talks about it, you know, I think does matter. And I and I think that in in the hopefully we’re not in this place. But in a in the bad place scenario where Trump really does gain with non college.

Voters of color, you know, noncollege men, really Hispanic and black men. It’s Michaelwood’s texting us right now. We can do this on the live stream. Yeah. I called you churchillian.

The, Like, if if Trump does gain in that demographic, right? Then To offset that, Biden needs to do even better than he did in twenty twenty with college educated, suburban, men, and women, particularly the types of people that probably like Nikki Haley that are supporting her in this primary. And so I do think that that what she does after the election is, is after this primary is more important than how she conducts herself over the next twenty four days, really. And I and I I guess maybe her alone might not matter that much if there are other people of her ilk that do the right thing. But I I think that that is gonna be, the big question.

And then also, I guess, The other contingency there is a third party situation. Right? If there’s a third party situation, what what people of her of her ilk say is gonna matter.

So, no, I agree that if I overstated my position a little and says that, look, the best thing is is she does not endorse Trump. That swamps everything else in terms of her having a salutary effect. I think the I think she said she would. So I kind of was being fatalistic and assuming she would and hoping I would hope she would if she does nominally and grudgingly and un, you know, demonstratively as opposed to enthusiastically and actually can’t be any further. So I do think it matters what version of endorsement, if she does endorse she ends up with.

But I mean, if she decides, but one thing I think that’s happening is she’s getting pretty angry at Trump, and he’s attacking her a lot. And the odds of her not endorsing have gone up from, I don’t know, what, you know, like, one percent to ten percent. I think I feel like there’s some, you know, this is like, six versus ten percent question of, but thinking could trump lose the nomination. I kind of feel like there’s some chance as this thing goes on, she gets kinda carried along by the momentum, and maybe she says, you know what? The way he’s made, the criminal trial that’s covering up, I’m I’m just gonna withdraw it with hold my address for Something like that would be good and, and pretty big.

So, but I’m sort of struggling with talking to people. Maybe it’s a tidy self selected group, obviously, that the fact that she’s standing up to him she’s provoked him and he’s attacking her in really stupid ways and attacking someone who’s, you know, if you’re sort of a Republican voter who’s queasy about Trump. It’s still a public image. This is kind of what you want. It’s not like attacking Joe Biden.

It’s not like attacking us. It’s not like attacking you know, I mean, I I think I just think she’s doing some damage to Trump, and obviously much much better though if she ends up not endorsing it.

Concur. Okay. Last topic, I wanna get to, I I don’t know if there’s a ton new to discuss on this, but I I it’s just too important to not keep bringing up. We have the situation with Ukraine, which for some reason is tied to immigration. We had James Langford out over the weekend on the Sunday shows.

Conducting myself pretty well. I might say, I I I did not like his answer to the question about Eugene Carroll. And whether he’d still support Donald Trump, but at least on the subject matter of this debate, he was pretty harsh with his colleagues. You know, who are basically saying, hey, you know, those was the one to fund Ukraine. We didn’t like some of the funding decisions or being made particular on our own border.

And so we held this line and said we have to fix that, in order to get this passed. And now, you know, we’re about ready to be able to do that, and we’ve come up to with an agreement. And and now you’re saying, no. Well, you know, now we gotta move the goalpost again because whatever, we might make mister Trump mad. So, Langford clearly still wants to do it, some level or else he would have been out there.

He’s been censured by his the Oklahoma party before the Oklahoma party even got to see. Fine Evos even got to see the exact language in this bill, which is, pretty telling for the nihilistic GOP that didn’t even have a platform in twenty twenty. AB had another great article in the board this week, which was, you know, basically, up Mitch McConnell. And, these are probably his last days. Anyway, and this is his moment.

Like, he has to do something. He has to stand stand step up and try to push this through and try to get the ten votes. Maybe it dies in the house anyway. But I don’t know. What have are you have you been talking to anybody, about any of this and what what’s your sense of the state of affairs and and how in a state are you about the behavior of the Republican senators?

I mean, I’m gonna say it because it’s been four months ago, the agent, Ukraine should have been renewed or or or updated, so to speak, or, this should have been the new aid package. And then once Israel was attacked, it should have been packaged for the Israel and Taiwan as well and border money. And then if they wanna do the border reform fine, but it’s dragged on a long time. And I do think there’s some bad faith among some of the Republicans not like for it. I think McConnell needs to try to help like for it.

He’s not he’s with like for it on this. So, push this to a conclusion If they can get the whole package and get seventy five votes, that’s fine. If they can get Ukraine Israel Tire only and get sixty votes from my point of view, that’s fine. And they should be able to either way. And they need to then just go to the, you know, merely push it in the house and not just let Johnson slow walk, you know, walk at it or threaten it as best fish and buy it.

At some point has to really make this I think it’s a fundamental moment. Your grant’s fundamental. And look, honestly, if I can get, and this is why trump’s upset about it, and and and some of the public is the house that if he can get, tough border provisions, whatever their individual merits, combined with Ukraine aid, and then just say, this is I’m for it. This is what I’m doing. I’m tied toughing the border, and I’m finally finding Ukraine.

It’s there’s some of these republicans who don’t wanna do either. It’s a pretty good issue for Biden, actually. I think he’s been, he’s held back because he doesn’t wanna you know, gives her he doesn’t wanna politicize it from his point of view yet, but of course, Trump is already from his point of view. So I mean, the bad faith of Trump is beyond what I did. And and and the sort of border talk republicans is is is a little jaw dropping even by Washington, DC.

Standards. It’s an existential crisis. The worst thing that’s ever happened, people are streaming across the border. Oh, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Dusts. Right and fentanyl.

Easing them out. And ends up endorsing something that’s to the right in some ways of things Trump didn’t do, you know. And and and and instead of saying, okay, we won that one and then gloating about it, which, you know, they they I’m sorry. It’s not enough. It’s not good enough, you know.

Yeah. Well, it’s because they don’t wanna govern. I I this sort of comes down to it. They’re not interested in governing. They don’t wanna win.

G winning getting policy wins is a loss. In Maga World because then you have to defend it because somebody, some asshole, can always say that it was too big of a, you know, you know, you you gave too much to the Democrats You know, it was too big of a cave to the establishment to the elites to Taylor Swift and Travis Kelsey. Right? Like, you can always get attacked for that. And so doing anything is point it does is is a net negative for you in MagA world.

Like, doing nothing and criticizing people trying to do stuff is always in that positive because of the nihilistic nature of And so I yeah. I don’t know. I mean, I think, I talked to you with Jake Ockenklaus. People missed that, over on the feed. And and he wants the Democrats to take more of a hard line on this.

And I think that that’s right. And and if it can get through the Senate, Democrats do have real leverage because the Republicans literally can’t do anything without Democrats. Right? So then the question is, if the Democrats refused to bail them out without some combination of this deal. You know, I mean, then we’re in a government shutdown situation, and then, you know, there’s the playing game on who’s who it is to blame, but it’s the Republicans that are running the house.

So I think that’s a decent hand, at least for the Democrats to try to play. I mean, it’s It’s it’s truly unbelievable that we’re in this situation where our ally absolutely needs assistance now There is a super majority, I think, in both chambers probably just in a clean vote. Like, if you just brought up a clean vote, you’d probably get sixty five senators, three hundred in the house, more than that likely. Right? So you have a maybe not a super majority, but a very clear majority in both chambers for it.

And for it not to happen, for us to leave them hanging out to dry, because something something were they’re worried that that you know, it might make mister Trump mad or it might get them in trouble on Bannon’s war room. I it’s just it’s it’s a preposterous place to be in. It is And then Rach

Party is is it’s jumps party and it’s, party that wants to use immigration as a budget and not deal with the problem, as you said, like, government in any way, response on that. And that some of whom are really our anti Ukraine, and they’re thrilled to have this sort of two front. Right? The ones that have to be blamed, this is where the, at some point, some responsible Republicans, you don’t have to, such a, if I feel like I assume said this in a whole lot in the last seven years, I have to step up and say

They’re the ones that matter. We we have we have to keep saying it because they’re the ones that matter. Right? Or or leave or leave or become Democrats or or just become MAGA. Right?

I’ve been just, like, I I don’t I was watching the stupid hearing or an or an an old closest doubt, but I was watching the stupid China hearing today, a little bit of it. Mike Gallagher and Pompeo’s there. And and and they’re lecturing Pompeo and and Gallagher are lecturing Achin Claus previously mentioned and some of the other Democrats for, like, asking partisan questions about Trump’s relationship with Xi, about and about the insurrection and and, like, I, you know, if if we care that much about at least, and and Gallagher and Pompeo are trying to get him on their high horse about how this is partisan and and and how, you know, we if we cared about our institutions, everyone should lock hands and realize a threat from China and it’s like these assholes who do not like are doing where are they? Like, we know that Mike Pompeo and Mike Gallagher cared at least maybe they don’t care deeply. Like, they don’t care deeply enough, but they at least believe that we should be defending Ukraine.

And and sense that they probably won’t believe we should have border security and they both believe that we should have Taiwan money in Israel. Like, they they believe all this. Where are these people? They’re no. There’s no they’re nowhere.

I didn’t see the hearing when I saw some clips, they but they say it to, therefore, on the record, just being for, you know, hitting Ukraine and on the record, for this particular deal, but they have four tougher border security. And then they, but then they just has spent most of their time attacking the Biden administration for various things, you know, some of them may be legitimate. And basically, she said, the key is they’re not doing anything to get it done. Right. Not really putting themselves on the line.

My Gallagher could say, I’m gonna send a discharge addition to make sure there’s aid for Ukraine because one of the reasons is that well, not not in Ukraine will not just help Putin Will Saletan GE and have a huge

Yeah. Put Taiwan in there. We’ll throw Taiwan in there on the discharge petition. So that’ll Yeah.

Well, didn’t hope to be honest. We’re thinking the Russia, the Ukraine Taiwan, Taiwan, I’m gonna sign a sooner note by what they’d be discharging, but let’s assume that that’s the bill. And I’m gonna sign that on March tenth if leadership here does not get us vote on the floor on some version and combination of these bills with a separate leader together. Right? He could say that, and they could get five Republicans to say it.

They get two hundred and thirteen Democrats. And they would have total leverage. It’s not that hard, right? And the same with my Mitt Romney and nine Republican senators. So we’re gonna have sixty votes for any combination you want of these different bills Right.

Together, separate, you know, but we want the aid for Taiwan, Ukraine, above all, and Israel. Also strong important, and we want some border, whatever border security dealers.

But they leave it to Matt Gates. Only Matt Gates does it. Okay. On this very same topic I had been brewing on. I’ve just I’ve been brewing and stewing in rage about West Virginia Senator, Shelley Moore it out.

And so if you wanna hear me rant about West Virginia Shelly more capital, I just wanna let you know that I’m I’m I’m boiling over and I’m gonna let it I’m gonna let it continue to to boil overnight, bubble. I’m gonna let it bubble overnight and tomorrow on the next level. Gonna save it for that. So you can tune in, to the next level feed here on our here on YouTube or, on the next level podcast feed where we’re now putting this show as well. So come back for that.

I’ll be with JBL and Sarah. But, in the meantime, Bill, any final any thoughts, any kind of words of wisdom from what your friend like, Jeff?

I like to look forward to your denunciation of showing more capital, and I’ll be just I know that’s been a great job. I’m gonna go listen to some Taylor now, listen to some Y clef, you know, kind of my, you know, my friends, you know, my buddies.

Possibly, a little bad blood. You know what? Let me

ask you this. Should I tweet something since they’re all obsessed with the conspiracy and, you know, deep ops and we’re a deep state and Taylor of Swift. Should I say something about how, you know, it’s fortunate that they don’t realize the Taylor Swift is actually Jim Swift, our colleagues, little sister, You know, I was tempted to do it then. I thought, you know what, Taylor Swift, maybe, like, if you say, that could be bad for various shifts.

I don’t know, the swifts, there are a lot of swifts out there. So that could that could create that could create some fraud. I’d ask Jim for his permission instead of me. Guys, thank you so much. I hope you enjoyed this.

We’ll be back tomorrow. On this feed for the next level. JV on Sarah Longwell to you next Tuesday with Bill. Peace.