Oppo October

Hello. Everyone. Welcome to the next level. I’m JBL, joined today by my best friends, Sarah Longwell, and Tim Miller from The Bulwark. If you are enjoying the show today, once you do two things for me.

First, mash the subscribe button. It’s it’s right down there. And second, come over to the bulwark dot com. We just we make content every day if it’s, like, free. Just for you.

Just for you. Well, for for everybody, really. Articles, podcast, videos. Come over to the board dot com, sign up, and you’ll get free stuff from Charlie Sykes and me and Tim Miller every day and even Sarah when she writes. In fact, I edited a piece from Sarah, a really, really good piece like two weeks ago and I haven’t heard back on the edit.

Hopefully,

it is a timely subject matter.

It’s evergreen. So let’s talk sports. Virtual Walker, former football great, in the news. Sarah, what do you think?

Like, fucking around counts as sports, but

of a soul. I gotta tell you, you guys know. Sports not I I played them. But I I’m not a big observer of them.

Quite a quite a bit better than me, actually.

Yeah. I played I played a lot of them go watch them. So I I was unaware of the Hirschfeld Walker until I started doing, like okay. So, okay, Trump’s got this football player, election denier, crazy person he’s gonna run. I started doing focus groups in the state only.

And I thought it was absurd at the time. Like, I was like, well, this person doesn’t have a chance. And then I went down to Georgia. Like the devil. And I listened to some Georgia voters talk to me about Hersha Walker, God of the state, he can do no wrong.

Yeah. I remember my favorite my favorite focus group anecdote about Hershel Walker is that we were telling group of swing voters, have you heard the story about him playing Russian roulette with a live bullet that he would stand there, hold the gun to his temple, and pull the trigger? And the person said Well,

the risk taker.

Well, that’s her show. I guess he just keeps winning. All

he does is win.

Holly does his win. So this is when I knew that Hersha Walker was of a different just a different whole phenomenon down there. Well, just

really quick one. You you’d never heard of them, like the name Hersha Walker didn’t even ring it but didn’t register something deep in your brain stem.

I don’t think so. I I mean, but I gotta tell you, there are certain phenomena that passed me by almost wholly. I would say, the the royals Donald Trump did entirely. Yeah. I mean, I knew who he was.

Right? Because he’s ephemeral. Like, he’s out there in the but I don’t care about him. I don’t follow it up. So to the extent if I’d heard Jeffrey Dahmer, I only just realized.

I just watched this Netflix, Jeffrey Dahmer thing. Did you know? He was gay and he mostly killed gay people who were mostly black and brown? I didn’t know any of

that. Okay. But that’s that’s different. That’s not like social trend. That’s like you missed a true crime story from the the early nineteen nineties.

Okay. Well, but

anyway,

but but I have

a lot of thoughts Jeffrey Dahmer, we should probably circle that.

We can we can do that again. Keep going. No. No. I had not really heard that much about hers.

Here’s the thing. What I don’t understand stand now that this has come to light that he paid for an abortion. The woman —

Allegedly. — he

allegedly paid for an abortion. I’m sorry. Thank you. I know how you’re one eighth of a lawyer. The the woman produced a a card.

And he sent a get well card.

Get

well.

A get book

card. Rested, relaxed, and recovered. I don’t. I mean, that’s that’s horrific.

Get well soon. Get get well

What? You think you should have sent a condolences card, Tim? I

I I don’t know if like Hallmark. I don’t think the Hallmark has, like, a rack

thinking of you. More.

I’m I just paid for your abortion.

You’ve got cards forever. That I pressured you into? You’re one of my you’re one of my my women that I’ve been pregnant. A nice note,

maybe a handwritten note. A nice dinner, a handwritten note, maybe a I I don’t know. Getwell soon seems not up for the occasion. I guess that’s what I do know. What is exact what is appropriate?

Open question. Get Wells I think

it conveys the manner of a person who, and I think we’re hearing some of this from his his son, did this with a lot of women and had some protocols in place for how he dealt with things.

That makes it sound like there’s more forethought then I think is really going into this. I think it’s a Churchill Walker sees a squirrel squirrel. And then, like, there’s a how to get out of it move on the next thing.

Do you know how how much effort I have to muster to send a card to anybody or anything? I just I just think that this was something that, like, this is how he and and this woman, like so she she literally Allegedly. Alleged well, not alleged she she does have receipts of money

in the check.

So, like, she’s in the check. Right? So

she’s got the bank statement. She’s just

As the kids say she has the receipts, but it literally she has the receipts. So, I I don’t know, perhaps fabricated whatever. Although, What was interesting last night was to watch it play out publicly. And to watch some on the right, Eric Erickson for one to be like, well, we’ve always all known this about Hersha Walker. Well, Hersha Walker simultaneously was reacting saying, this never happened.

Only then to shortly thereafter, have his son come out and say, of course, this happened. And let me tell you all about him. And and this morning is another video when he calls him a liar. But the thing is like the idea that we would all believe Hersha Walker after they have uncovered I believe four secret children of his since this campaign began?

Four four children by four different women. I think as the two of them were secret love children maybe. It’s hard to keep track, to be honest. But you remember when this all started, it was the only acknowledged child. Right.

You remember when this started, it was because he had lied to his own campaign staff about the existence of these other this other paternity. Right. These other instances of paternity. SO HE’S SUCH INVEDERATE LIRE, BUT HE HAS ALREADY LIED TO HIS OWN WORKERS. WHY WOULD THE PEOPLE OF GEORGIA

THINK THAT HE’S NOT LYING TO THEM NOW? THERE’S PART OF ME THAT that is so disgusted by the fact that Republicans allowed this person to run, that everybody let Donald Trump have his way, that thinks that Cleared the field form. Cleared the field form, the Mitch McConnell and Doristem. So, like, there’s part of me that wants to be, like, Great job, guys. And really, like, lean into this.

The problem is it is such a, like, horrible like, gross situation that then there’s that part of me that says, god, this is awful. Like, this poor kid and, like, these poor other kids And, honestly, Hershel Walker seems like he is so funny. People talk about Joe Biden’s, you know, in in firm, you know, mental acuity’s Like, Hersha Walker is not there. He kind of string a sentence together. And so, like, part of me also just feels bad.

Like, I I I am hesitant to sort of dunk on it, but the people I will dunk on are the Republicans who put this guy forward. It is shameless.

Well,

I’ve got great news for the listeners. I do not feel hesitant at all to jump on that situation. I hope No. I’m glad, Sarah, is I appreciate where there’s coming from and it’s showing a little discretion. But I don’t I don’t I’m not choosing to share it.

Here’s the here’s the thing. You guys are both kind of hitting around it. But I mean Walker, like, they didn’t even have a primary. Like, this was all no. And this is this is this is the parallel to to to the Trump element.

It is not as if there was any question that Hershel Walker might possibly be in the ballpark of prepared to be a United States senator. Right? Like anyone who spent one minute with him could tell that he that he wasn’t. Anyone who spent one minute watching or ten minutes or whatever, watching his old twenty twenty interview, you know, which I did for that original Hershel Walker I wrote for the article I wrote for the Bulwark a year and a half ago. Like, anyone that spent ten minutes watching that is, like, this person needs mental health.

Like, he needs around the clock psychiatric care. You know, he needs a support group of of other men. If he wants to do a Christian men support group, right, where they go on retreats, Like, that’s where what he needs to be doing. Right? Like, dealing with his own issues, not being put in front of cameras every day, not not being responsible for whether we’re sending aid to the Ukrainians or not while they’re being invaded.

Right? Like that not being responsible for women’s uteruses. Okay? Like, this is not this is a person that needs help. That was very obvious.

That was so obvious. We wrote an article about it before he was even a candidate. Demonstrating how obvious it was, and yet Mitch McConnell looks at this. Rick Scott looks at this and is like, well, he’s famous. These famous writers will just go with it.

Trump wants them, why do you want to fight? Why do you want the primary? Why fight on any principles? Why actually try to care about anything? You know, in the LOL, nothing matters.

And it’s like, this was all predictable. Then then everything we predicted came to pass. And then his his numbers started doing poorly. And you know what, all these same assholes did met last this past summer? They rushed down to help him.

Let’s go operation rescue Herschel. Yeah. Brett O’Donnell. The most famous speech writing coach in Republican politics will send him in Gail Gitchow my old colleague from from Mitt Romney’s campaign. Mitt Romney’s spokesperson like these are not this is not the MAGA nuts like they sent in eighteen.

K. Let’s send in the eighteen to try to help him. And all these same people put their names in political and said, I’m gonna be here to help Hershel. Hershel was not helpful. K?

Hershel was a fucking disaster from the start, unpreparedness, on his personal behavior, his personal ethics, on the fact that he was visa compulsive liar. We all knew it, but they all don’t give a fuck. K? Like, all they wanted was Mitch McConnell to be the senate leader and it’s like who cares, Herschel, we’ll be a good boy and do, you know, what he’s told. Like, that I mean, that is the like, let’s just be honest.

Like, that is their mindset looking into this. There’s obviously some racial elements sub subtext to that, though, they’re doing the they did the same exact thing with Tommy Uberville and, you know, they they’re doing with others. So, like, these guys don’t care. And it’s all blowing up in their face.

And

I gotta tell you, I was enjoying it. I was enjoying it. I feel bad for Hershel? I do. But but I just kinda scroll into it.

I don’t really feel that for Hershel, actually. I feel that for Christian, Amit, which we can get to next. Just a just a hair, I I like to spend a little more time on Christian to explain why I don’t feel that bad for him. I feel a little bad for Christian because it’s tough. But all these assholes that are getting their comeuppance, I I I I’m enjoying it.

And I hope that they all enjoyed putting out their statement from the NRSROOM about how the liberal media is out to get her to the

locker, like a bunch of solo with Democrats and their partners in the media always do, Tim. Right?

Amazing how the Democrats got to his son. Wow.

And and and on new king rich saying it’s one of the most vicious smears he’s ever seen. I So, you know, the national right to life group, his big endorser, Hershel Walker, they think he’s gonna be a great champion for life in Georgia. And none of this matters to any of these people. No. Right?

None of them are going to now it may matter to some small percentage of Republican or swing voters. And I, you know, I I would bet that the vast majority of Republican voters are gonna look at this and say, Either it’s not true, it’s a media lie. It was all in the past. He’s a different man or who cares. Like, I want Team Republican.

But maybe some, you know, maybe three percent of those people will say, I’m gonna stay home. And if they do, then Hershel Walker will be a lot of trouble. But from the institutional side, none of those people are going to walk away from him. No. National right.

National right to life is not going to walk away him. The Republican Party, writ large, is not gonna walk away from him. And this will become yet another litmus test. I mean, so, Tim, the the thing about Hershel and the McConnell endorsement,

I

actually disagree. I don’t think McConnell was looking at Hershel as Hershel was being put forth by Trump and thinking he’s our best chance to win. And McConnell looked at that as, I need to get right with the maggas somehow And so I can’t be seen as pushing back against this. And so I’m gonna hug Hershel to sort of, you know, butch up some of my maggabon, a few days at a vulnerable moment for me. And then once they were in, they thought, well, we gotta make, you know, make chicken salad out of us.

Right? No.

I think they didn’t want to fight. Sure. Maybe that’s something about Magna Bo in a few days, but but Mitch is probably not gonna run again. Right? And, like, who’s he who’s he trying to fix his own caucus?

I think these assholes haven’t learned a damn thing in seven years. And, like, they thought that they can just do the same thing. They can own this guy and, like, whatever else in problems. Nobody will really care. It’ll be a red wave year.

They’ll sweep he’ll he’ll sweep in. We won’t have to deal with these with the with the bloody primary fight. I mean, in any sane world, in anything even bordering on a sane world, Brad Raffin’s partner who just, like, overwhelmingly won did the right thing as secretary of state has been tagged, nagged by JBL and support people for not exactly being you know, going all the way there on the results of all the things that he claims, like acting as if, you know, maybe you should act a little differently if you’re on the one hand, you’re saying the president pressured you into stealing the election and into the democracy. On the other hand, maybe that should make you reassess some things about the press. Hence his party, but he didn’t do that.

But he did the right thing. He did the right thing. He’s a down the line conservative. Like, how how was he not a better bet for this like he’s a slam dunk. Right?

But, actually, supporting Brad or Athens worker would have met. Okay. We would have had to deal with this primary. We would have had to deal with Donald Trump shit. You know, I would have had to show, like, just one scintilla of moral courage and and and and that they’ve all decided that they don’t they don’t do Right?

That nothing matters. Right? They’ve already sold their soul. What reason do they have to show us until of moral courage now? But but, like, the thing is, I just I hate to let people off the hook on that one because it’s, like well, obviously, that one’s gonna be for Athens burger, Tim.

But, obviously, why? Brian Kemp won his primary. Is it crazy to think the Grass and Burger could have won a primary? That if they if they put out all this op gone, hurdles.

I’m sorry. I, like, I I I I I agree with you generally, but if we’re gonna get in

here

can I go? If that that’s what I’m I’m saying I’m saying, like, there might be somebody but, like, the Ravensburger got pulled over the line on a combination of name recognition, Kemp’s performance, and democrats crossing over to for him. Like, he would have gotten destroyed in a Republican directory.

Yeah. Sure. Okay. But, like, like, the the the lieutenant governor, I think Kemp did it. Right?

Kemp couldn’t have found somebody that they could have run against this guy?

I think that’s a good point. I mean, this is and this is this is sort of it. Right? Is that Hershel Walker the phenomenon of Churchill Walker running for the Senate was done with the consent of a whole bunch of people who knew better. And I think to Tim’s point about the shot in Ford, like, I’m not gonna have Sean and Freud for, like, the Walker family, but for the Republicans who allowed this to happen and just kinda closed their eyes and crossed their fingers, like, let’s just hope his celebrity gets him over and every single one of us knows that he is unqualified, that this is bad for the country, it’s probably bad for his family, and they went ahead and and it is exploitative.

They deserve absolutely to lose. It’s nice to see Donald Trump continuing I mean, We don’t know this for sure yet. And I think we should just talk for a second about whether or not there will be a political consequence to this. But if there is, that’s the third Senate seat Donald Trump will have lost in Georgia in just a few years. Well,

before

we do the political side of it, let’s just spend one minute on on Christian. Because I do think this is relevant. And I think that it’s relevant to whether there will be political consequences. For people who have not obsessive freaks like me and do not know who Christian Walker is or people who aren’t on TikTok. This is a quick background.

Hershel Walker’s son is a gay TikTok star. He was a national cheerleading champion. So he’s touching all the bases on the gay stuff. This is not like He’s a, you know, he’s a conservative thought leader and he’s also gay. Like, he’s gay, gay, gay.

Like, that says, the center to his brand is. I’m gay, and I’m also conservative. He’s extremely outspoken. He’s a that that is like the understatement of the year. He’s like kind of an obnoxious troll, really.

He he was one of the one of the most visible agitators of the fact that the election had been stolen certainly to the teen twenty something set you know, who are on TikTok. Like, Christian might have been the person that they saw besides Trump, like, the most often, they like this election was stolen. He drug his dad onto Maria Bart Romo show, which I did together. If you looked at which I did if you, like, look at Hershel’s Twitter feed closely during this period at to the election. There were some very similar things to what Christian was tweeting, and some might think that that meant Christian was copying his dad.

I I think there’s a lot of evidence that points the other way. Right? Like, that he was in, you know, influencing his dad. He is I he had a millions of of followers. He keeps getting his account canceled for, like, doing lies and conspiracy stuff.

But he keeps adding back on and has six hundred so, like, this is a very public like, very well known person. He

is a very beautiful boy. He’s

beautiful. Yeah. He’s beautiful. He has he

has an he has an unbelievable woman.

He has a lot of weird opinions. Yep. You know, and he he he did his last, I think, just for reference. As a reference point, I think his last big controversial thing is he said that I’m not gonna call them. I I’m not gonna use the word gay anymore more because it’s been because the LGBTQIA plus the furries and the the non binaries and everybody have have taken this away from me and sexualized it all and made it that gender and I’m just a guy that likes penis.

So — Okay. — whatever. You know, he he has he’s out there. And clearly, he has some issues, given the fact that you know, what he went through. And so I I think that it’s important to recognize this is not like Ron Reagan junior coming out against his dash.

Right? This is this is Don Junior coming out against his dad. Like, the the even more magnified next generation. So let’s if if for people haven’t heard of it yet. Let’s automatically play the clip of what Christian is saying about his dad today.

I state silent as the atrocities committed against my mom were downplayed. I stayed silent when it came out that my father hears a walk around all these random kids across the country, none of whom he raised And you know my favorite issue to talk about is father absent. Surprise because it affected me. That’s why I talked about it all the time. Because it affected me.

Family values people. He has four kids, four different women wasn’t in the house raising one of them. He was out having sex with other women. Do you care about family values? No.

I will sign a lie after lie after lie. The abortion card dropped yesterday. It’s literally his handwriting in the car. They say they have receipts, whatever. He gets on Twitter, he lies about it.

Okay. I’m

done. Done. Everything has been a lie. Wow. I will say Thursday Walker, like, he was at an event when the story broke.

So he immediately said he was going to sue the Daily Beast for defamation. Like, the next day.

Tuesday morning.

Yeah. Tuesday morning immediately. Gonna sue. Then his son came out and kinda blew up a spot, which I’m I don’t I I haven’t seen the lawsuit. I’m not sure that thing’s getting filed today.

Can

I just caution people? Again, this is a thing that buy, you know, to I always say this about Andrew Sullivan. Right? Andrew Sullivan has been this idiot who’s been wrong about everything and used any club at hand for, like, thirty five years of his professional life. And then Yeah.

Yeah. But because Andrew has been on every side of every issue, and, you know, like, he’s smart. He’s not dumb. When he winds up on your side of the issue, whoever you are and whatever the issue is, the temptation is always be like, well, Andrew is making a lot of sense now. Right?

Is no. It’s just like this is just weird the spinner has stopped right now. The same thing with with Christian Walker, like, I would not I would not put too much stock in anything that he says, to be quite honest.

No. No. No. I reject everything that you just said. Every sentence.

Daughter’s like Andrew’s been decently consistent on a lot of things. Okay? So he was about the thing he just convinced me on certain things. I used for gay marriage for anybody wants. For pop legalization, for anybody was.

So, you know, everybody’s got their issues, and that’s fine. Andrew has I’ve seen my issues with Andrew. But this is not that. Okay? For for another reason is this isn’t an issue.

It’s not like Christian Walker happens to agree with me right now on school vouchers or, like, permanent daylight savings time or the war in Ukraine. I go to use a new thing. My realized about

the election. And now he’s telling me, well, yeeke, you can’t no. What are you doing? The guy my

father abandoned me. My mother was scared of him. We had to go to six different houses. And I forget his six months or six years to get away from him. He was abusive He’s a liar.

He’s a compulsive liar. And and and it’s an admission against interest because I’m out there getting fame off of this. I’m out there. I got the ideologically aligned with my insane father. Maybe in influencing my insane father’s ideology.

So it’s not as if this is like, oh, Christian Walker changed his mind on on Obamacare. And now I I now wanna make him the decision.

It’s

like, like, this is this is the kid who is who is who has been impeached. Once

a witness’s credibility has been impeached, like, you can’t take anything else they say after that seriously.

Why? He’s saying the truth? Sure. He may be saying the truth now. More people can assess when two insane people are fighting.

One of them has to be right. K? When they’re on two different opposite sides and one of them is saying this didn’t happen and one of them saying it did happen, we can assess which one of the insane people is offering more evidence in their case. And it’s obviously the kid who’s been, like, taken advantage of by his famous father for years and been a victim of his famous father. And just because he has horrible opinions on, like, basically, everything doesn’t mean that that didn’t happen.

Right? So he’s been victim of

I I say what I mean. I I take JBL’s point that, like, one can be skeptical of this young man based on but however however, If you listen to him though, so he has he’s made several videos this morning, which I have watched. But one of them is Totally

normal thing to do.

Yeah. One of them is he he he talks a lot about how he was gonna stay quiet. Like, he was fine keeping his mouth shut until his father started lying about it. That to me sounds pretty credible, like and and he actually says, like, all you Republicans calling me up, telling me you’ll lose us control of the senate. He’s like, well, he’s lying about all this.

He’s lying about my mother and, like, this is all untrue. That that I think is that sounds pretty credible to me and that you can see how he was willing. Right? He was originally willing to keep his mouth shut But what he wouldn’t do is sort of swallow the lie. He also said interestingly in that they promised him early that his father was gonna own up to all of his mistakes, take responsibility for it, like out of the gate, and then move on from it.

And, like, he was okay with that. That’s not what happened. He just started lying. Well, this was the pitch. It’s what they it’s what he did in his whole op

ed where his attacking bill or whatever. Right? Like, this was Hershel’s initial that so, again, more credibility to what Christian is saying. Hershel’s whole play in or whatever, like, what what the people were thrusting on him if he didn’t lie to his own people. Was gonna be a solve the Damascus type thing.

Right? Like, I’m I’m a Christian now. I had psychological problems. I’ve seen the Lord. It’s this whole thing that I wouldn’t remember when he’s the story that I was chasing the that was a woman or a man.

He’s chasing someone. He’s trying to kill them. Was a guy. Yeah. These guys got the voices in my head where I killed this guy, and then God told me, no, do the right thing.

So He saw the

bumper sticker. Was a bumper sticker on the guy’s car. Yeah. He

had the awakening. Right? So but maybe did so that would make sense that he would tell Christian. Like, look, I’m gonna apologized to what I did for your mother. I I may I was sinful.

I was fallen. I’ve seen the Lord. And I you know, that’s a reasonable thing to expect that he’s gonna do and also think that that it’s crazy that he runs. But that that but you’re balancing humans are complicated. You’re an influencer.

You’re like, how many more followers am I gonna get if he runs? I don’t like the fact that this is gonna be bad. I I it’s it’s a very understandable sequence of events.

Can you imagine Hershel Walker running a senate office. Like,

you know,

to be a senator, like, you’ve got, like, a bunch of employees. And you gotta, like, fire people and fire people. So I’m gonna remember what like, the whole the whole idea of him as a senator makes the job of governance into a joke.

Yeah. And I will say with knowing that, Right? The idea that Republicans And

he

could still win. Yeah.

He could still win. And the idea that like and this is, like, in the before times, right, before access Hollywood. We would be having a different conversation about the repercussions of something like this. We would say like, okay. Video footage has surfaced from your wife talking about how you held a gun to her head.

More than once because she starts out with the first time he held a gun to my head. You have four secret children. You paid for an abortion despite being a no exceptions rape and suspect for the mother guy, politician right now, and your son has said that you are lying about all of it. So that would be like game over. You’re done.

Because Republicans would walk away from you, because they would care about preserving their own credibility. But they have learned some some very terrible lessons since Donald Trump. It was interesting to watch, you know, people like Eric Ericsson, and he was getting a lot of play last night because those are nights where people’s cynicism and their lack of clear morals despite being people for whom morals are their brand. Becomes on full display because they are quick to rush to the defense and say either somewhere between hey, we all already knew this, old news, which is literally the words he is old news. We already knew this.

To being, like, a vowed pro lifers. Like, decent people walk away and do not defend somebody like Hersha Walker.

And and then otherwise Eric is, like, trying to rationalize and justify it in a way that is almost, like, not the worst in the degree of, you know, I said there’s Lisa Marie Booth. A fox person who’s somebody guys to pile around within DC. She, you know, just tweets, I I if I moved to Georgia, I would still vote for Hershel Walker after this. And again, think about the practice. He lost it up for Roy Moore.

Yeah. Right? They lost it. They lost it. Like like like Eric is, like, trying to work the convoluted gears in his brain.

To try to get to a yes. Like, these other people aren’t even doing that. It’s just not it’s just sociopathy. So before we move, I I do wanna kinda just circle back to the political element of this and, like, whether it will matter. And I already saw, you know, Ken, like, Pope hat is great between it, like, no, these people aren’t gonna care about this.

His voters aren’t gonna care about this. And I do think this is why people should be bored, plus members, and listen to the focus group because you don’t have to actually go to Georgia like I did to hear from voters. A lot of these people are complicated. Sure. Is eighty percent of the Republican base just gonna blindly vote r no matter whether it’s Roy Roy Royer, David Duke, or Hershel Walker, or, like, Luis Eareca.

It doesn’t matter. Yeah. Sure. I of course. But there there are people that are away.

You know, I and I think sure you think about people in your mind in the focus groups there, but I think from, you know, when I was interviewing folks about this in Georgia, one guy stands out. I was at the Kemp event. And I went up to just the first guy I saw that I’m figuring he was gonna be just a strong r type. And I asked him, I was like, what do you think about obviously here for camp, what do you think about Herschel? He’s like, I don’t know about that guy.

You know, he’s like, I’m gonna vote for him because I’m a Republican, but And I was like, oh, okay. But I you know, I’m trying to I’m interested in people that might vote for Kemp and Walker, and he’s like, you might have my wife. He’s like, I don’t know yet. She hasn’t told me, she’s a strong Republican. That I don’t think she can vote for Hershel.

She’s a she’s a family woman and and the stuff about his family. Right? So I think about that. Right? And it’s like, you you forget that there are people out there that might just be like, I’m not gonna write that line.

You know? And that’s something.

Right?

Like nudging somebody like that guy’s wife from Kemp Walker to Kemp, you know, I’m writing in Billy Graham, right, or whatever, or or Kemp not writing in. That’s that’s a plus one. Right? Like moving that person from Camp Walker to Camp Warrnock is a plus two. Right?

Like an in net, right, vote change. So I just I do I think it’s wrong when you just listen to these types of voters, you know, particularly there are a lot of despite the fact that ProLife Inc. Is is a nihilistic and full of shit. There there are still a lot of people out there that bought what they were selling and that our pro life and and varying degrees of genuineness. That might look at this and say, I can’t more I can’t personally vote for this person.

Maybe I can’t vote for warnock either because he’s pro choice, but I can’t vote for this person. I I do think that there is a significant gettable group here and to and just and just to wave it away like access Hollywood, I think is wrong.

Well, I agree with that sort of. I mean, I I think that I’m not trying to wave it away like x’s Hollywood. I think that how x’s Hollywood change the way that we react to these things. Right?

I didn’t I didn’t mean to imply So, like,

Republicans are running to defend him, but I agree with you on the voters. Right? There are a lot of voters And I think it’s funny. I’ve always sort of thought that this race, we always think in terms of, like, the Camp Barnock voters. These college educated suburban voters who look at Hershel Walker and they’re, like, this guy is not up to this job.

And I was always like, you know, I think you could probably get a lot of those people. My concern was that there would be plenty of independence and even democrats who would literally be, like, Hershel forever. You know? And, like, for no Go dogs. Go dogs.

Yeah. Just Right. Like like he that’s that’s how he scrambles, the political situation is because he’s just a different he’s not like a normal political candidate. When the focus groups, people talk about the struggle in the booth all the time. Like how they sit there and think about these things.

And I think there’s a lot of people for whom the steady drumbeat. And I think look, those ads about him putting the gun to his wife’s head are just airing relentlessly in Georgia. And I think there’s gotta be a lot of women who our leg. And

men and the guy the guy that I interviewed in DC Aiken, the guy who who I interviewed the story who’s literally JBL’s fault horn, leg horn voice as a human. I got

it. And

this is DCA. And, Greg, I’d just be like, that’s how he sounds. And and he even he said he’s like, I’ve been in this politics game used to be a city councilman or something. I know how you can contort things and ads and stuff, but you can’t contort what that lady’s saying. On the ad and, like, that’s just not I can’t do that.

I can’t do that. That’s too far for me. He was a he was a Trump twenty twenty voter. So, like, the these Mhmm. Yeah.

It’s not even just women. Right? Like, that is really bad. It just it just shows the immorality of like Mitch McConnell’s again. That, like, these these people who are outside of the warped political bubble can, like, see this more clearly.

Right? I’m just, like, nope. Sorry. That’s over the line. Maybe we should have had a

competitive primary. Alright. Let’s move on. We got other stuff to talk about. But before do that, we have our very first sponsor for the next level.

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We love your stuff. Okay. So we did we did Hershel Walker. And I guess I guess that doctor Oz is lucky that this week Hershel Walker turns out to have allegedly paid for an abortion. Since this week, we also found out that doctor Dharaz has killed hundreds of puppies.

Oppo Oppo October, man. Oppo October. You know, it just as a piece of political, I don’t know, craftsmanship. Tim, have you noticed, do you think people are moving up their OPPO dumps because of early voting? Like, do we have to get our temperatures set differently now for when we’re gonna get the hot stuff?

So yes. I do think so. And it was something we thought about even as early as twenty six eighteen. Right?

Which was trying to get stuff out in early October rather than the traditional that was the bush October surprise was literally Halloween, like the Dan Rather or not

—

Yeah. —

you know, the drunk drive the the drunk driving one with Gore. And that was, like, November one or something. October’s prize, October thirtieth. You do it earlier now. That is a strategic move.

I I think that’s probably what’s happening with Oz here and the mass puppy murder. But I have a good authority that the Hershel thing was not actually Apple. And and it’s just and we’ve gone to song, and we should credit Roger Sullenberger over at the at the Daily Beast who got it. And

I I do think it was got those good old fashioned source gathering. And the reason why know that is because I was in Georgia, as you guys know, riding up this race, asking everybody, give me your up. Give me your up. Let me do it. Let me let me shave Hershel.

And I I several people I heard they’re like,

don’t got anything, you know, that’s that’s good, but the Daily Beast was working on something huge. So I I just I do think that that was just a a

real recording, but but the the odds thing has all the all the hallmarks of a a classic author. Does

anybody care about this? Like, I’m not a dog person, so I look at this and I’m like, me, the puppy dead.

I don’t know. I wouldn’t read, like, the actual thing. And so I I I think that there is a little bit he is sort of removed from it. Right? Like, I this is not I don’t think doctor Oz, like conducting his own experiments.

He was like overseeing a team that was doing

Oh, he’s not Michael Vic.

Right. He was overseeing a team that was doing, I think, legitimate experiments of some kind. It

works. Right? You run a lab and you got a bunch of researchers and PhDs beneath you who are doing the experiments.

That’s right. Now, but what I read that was sort of the terrible party, so he signs like a waiver of taking responsibility for all of the things that happen. And there’s very strict protocols for how you treat animals that you’re doing experiments on. And I think there’s like extra ones for dogs. And one of them is that you, you know, they have to be like euthanized at a certain point or they have to have things that keep them from feeling pain, you know, when and, like, so a bunch of that wasn’t being followed is the allegation, and then there was, like, some fines levied, but they were small.

It was, like, two thousand dollars. This is the kind of thing, actually, I think it does stick potentially, like, people love their dogs, like, Federman’s response was just to take a photo of himself with his dogs and say, like, I’m hugging these guys extra hard tonight. But I don’t I don’t know if doctor Oz, like being a scientist over a lab. Like, I’m not sure how much I don’t know. I I that’s a hard one.

Doesn’t it

underline his essential problem with connection though, which is that, like, he’s a kinda creepy TV doctor with two percent body fat, who smiles too hard. And, like, you know, like, these things are always only problems if they exacerbate an existing perception or connection problem with voters. So, like, on the one hand, like, I have a hard time thinking that a bunch of rural insurers who are always gonna vote for Republicans are gonna look and say, oh, no. Hell, no. I like my I like my old yellow over there.

But on the other hand, if you are like a normie type Republican who is already, like, oh, do I have to vote for this guy? Maybe this makes you say, the dog

— Right.

No. — Tim? And

is it true that the dog is is it true that the dead dogs and the live dogs, like, putting a bag together?

That’s the plot of a hundred and one Dalmatian.

That is one of the one of the accusations is is that the dead animals were put in with the cubbies.

I don’t I don’t I don’t know that this is a a vote getter. After after explaining why and that’s why I can imagine a Georgia voter this mattering. I I don’t know. People do care about dogs more than me though. Maybe this is my dog’s sociopathy, and this is there’s some in there.

Seamus, obviously, had a lot of legs as a story, the the Romney roof dog. And you you know, I I think that in general, Federman had kind of lost. He had this drumbeat of just us as weird az is not from here. You can’t trust him. It’s very strange.

Like, he’s not one of us. And, like, he had lost that that. Right? Like, the stroke happened let’s just be honest, he’s not doing interviews. So he’s not carrying a message.

That is that is

Their campaign is shit posting.

Yeah, that is that is concerning. And and and I think people are legitimately concerned about that. And so and then and then OZ’s campaign actually put together a message, you know, some of which is a little race baiting and a little bit overheated, but that some of it, you know, has legitimate examples of what’s of what’s on the crime issue, what’s been happening in Pennsylvania. And and that has sort of turned the sort of narrative around the race. And so to the extent that things like this can get federman back onto the turf of this dude is such a weirdo, like, maybe it’s helpful in the macro more than, like, somebody’s like, I was gonna be with us, and then I heard

about the puppy slaughter. Changed my vote. Yeah. That’s that’s what I was trying to trying to get at. Yeah.

Let me like, so I did a Pennsylvania focused group just this week. Pretty

copious slaughter. You have to do a follow-up next

week. I was pre puppy slaughter, unfortunately. And so I wanna tell you about an interesting dynamic. And I I I told this you guys before, but it it happened again. It’s been happening a lot.

So these are Trump sixteen, Biden twenty twenty voters. Pennsylvania, zero willing to vote for Mastriano. Mastriano was so well defined They know exactly how crazy he is, and they all think Josh Shapiro is fine. Some some of them even think he’s more better than fine, like actively like him. K?

So zero at the top of the ticket for the Republican. Interesting

that every single Pennsylvania voter could see that clearly yet been SaaS. Mit rum, Susan Collins, all our good results. Can’t. It’s the RGA, Doug Dewey, Chris and who knew, Larry Hogan, Charlie Baker. Nobody else can see it as clearly as every single Trump Biden voter that you’ve talked to.

To be fair, the RGA, which is in for Carrie Lake and Zona who’s equally horrible to Mastriano. They are not doing Mastriano in Pennsylvania. Mastriano has basically no ads on the air. It’s actually like a perfect political science experiment to see, like, what happens if you just don’t run any ads or, like, you don’t have any air game whatsoever. No.

Because, usually, this doesn’t happen. Yeah. He’s he’s, like, raised very little money. I mean, Shapiro’s raised, like, a gazillion dollars, and it’s just burying him. But but in any event, so so this is so so I’ve got so we’ve got our our Trump divided voters and we’ve got no Mastriano voters, Oz and Federman totally split down the middle.

Split down the middle group One of the guys was in a group before. We had seen him before, and he was gonna maybe leave it blank, but he’s now us. He’s now full us. And the reason that these guys had moved more comfortable with Oz was all the crime stuff. Yeah.

It was it is. It is. It is. The crime stuff And I think there’s a little bit of the health stuff in there to like, they’re not sure he’s up to it, some of that. But and and, you know, the crime stuff was throughout.

I mean, the several of them lived in kind of outside of Philadelphia, and there was just real condemnation for the mayor, for the way the crime is being handled. And so I know that the JBL, you’re very dismissive of people’s concerns about crime, but it is a legitimate thing that is in the mix is influence these political things, but No. It’s

totally true. When I’m voting for the United States senator, the first thing I think about is what will he do to local crime. How how will my United States senator force my mayor or my local district attorney or the governor to increase funding for police and stop it. That’s that’s I

just Can I just give you the chasing on top? I told you guys this before. Alright. Trump to Biden?

Still on us now? No.

No. Federman half ours.

Don’t do this to me. Three

of them head to head Biden, Trump, rerun. Go Trump. So they voted for Biden in twenty, but they would go back to Trump. Of course. I can’t

my little heart can’t take this.

I’m just seeing more of this. Look at that. I’m just seeing it. And I I don’t know what to tell you.

It’s happening. It’s happening. And this is what and listen. You listen to me. All of these fuckers who went and rolled over for Hershel Walker, the Mitch McConnells of the world, and the Charlotte, all of these these institutional Republicans.

I am telling you now that they will talk themselves into believing that Trump is actually their best bet to win in twenty twenty four. And so they have to get behind it.

I mean, I need you to clip JBL there,

because he’s gonna

want that clip replayed at some point in the future. I suspect, as and I told you so. That’s coming.

Listen, so we are starting to run long And we have two, three topics left, and I’m gonna let you guys pick which one we do, because we can only do one. We can do the weirdo pro Russia stuff. We can do Gavin Newsom beatdown or we can do why isn’t Brian Kemp the post Trump future. Tara?

I I mean, I I will You

wanna do news on?

Tim, do you have a strong feeling on this? I just He’s one of my least favorite Democrats. And so if if we wanna if we wanna do some bipartisan hate here.

So so Gavin Newsom is the Thirtieth Democrat in America. He is almost, I think, Rhonda Santos levels of Thirtieth — March. He’s been due he’s challenged Rhonda Santos to a debate because that’s normal. He’s got billboards about abortion up in South Carolina, the most important Democratic primary state. And guess what?

He’s not gonna be president. First of all, he’s not gonna win a Democratic nomination. There is zero point zero percent chance that he could win a Democratic nomination. And if he were to somehow, because, like, a plane went down in which every other person who’s running for president of the Democratic Party, was was on it, and he was the only one left. He would lose to basically any Republican not named Doug Mastriano in a national race, like, you know, fifty to forty two.

This guy is terrible. He is build a Blasio twenty twenty levels of terrible. And I want him to go away And he’s never going to with his slicked back hair. Is he?

No. I’ve had to vote for him, I think, seventeen times because since I moved to California, been so many

recalls. Always running. I just

oh my god. So this one

I

I’ve got street cred here. Alright? I held my nose. I voted for him when he was running against the Talk Radio Show host. I voted for him when I he was running against the weird chunky guy that campaigned with the Bay Air.

I voted, like, I I do it. Okay? So, you know, I I I get that he’s

not the worst politician in America that you know, that that if you’re not comparing them to the almighty, that you can find someone that is better than. But he’s really he’s really creepy and and annoying. And and thirsty. And and I don’t it concerns me when I see early twenty twenty four polls. That is that his number is popping because, you know, his name ID, you know, he’s good at this.

He plays the media game. And and I just I you you just friends don’t let friends respond to auto pollers and tell them that they might vote for Gavin Newsome next time. Like, please stop giving this person encouragement. He’s fine. I he’s fine.

He’s a flaw. He’s just a normal flawed Democratic politician. He’s done some good things. He he finally seems to be getting it on housing lately. So I just I wanna shout that out as a California person.

They passed two good housing bills. He yelled at San Francisco and was, like, build fucking more houses this week. So it’s better nothing. He was early on the gay stuff. It’s not like he’s social walker.

Like he has some qualities. That his whole vibe was very creepy. He took a picture laying on a rug with Kimberly Gilfoyle, where he was like, were there again intimate? And that is that doesn’t work for me in any way. This is Kimberly Gilfoyle.

It’s not somebody who’s just changed. Like, she was always like the way that she is now. Net that, you know, he’s asking my old brother’s without Don Junior. That’s uncomfortable. I don’t wanna give the Trump family an opportunity to bring

that up.

During a campaign. I mean, like, do do we do you really want a presidential campaign where Don Junior’s talking about how Gavin didn’t fuck his wife well as he does. I see this. It’s not good. And and and and and the Barrow article, Josh Barrow article that sort of sort of laid this out.

California. I love California. It’s a beautiful state that has its problems. The Democrats don’t wanna own all of California’s problems on the twenty twenty four campaign. And so let’s just move on.

Thank him for his service and just kind of find find somebody better. Sarah,

I’m sorry you had to sit through that. But on the other hand, you did say you wanted to talk about Gavin Newsom. Yeah.

California. Guilfoyle. French laundry. That’s it. No more.

Hey. No more. Like, that that Dan shouldn’t do it. Yeah. So that’s it.

We we talked about it. I don’t

think Dan’s will want to, but I just like, this guy, he’s just gonna he’s gonna keep put himself forward. Worried about that. I’m worried about it because

he’s a fighter. I’m a little worried about it too. He knows what he’s doing right now with the Go and Toyota, Toyota Ronda Santos. Like, he wants he wants the benefit of this matchup. And I think the zealousness with which he is pursuing this is all of the reasons that he is disqualified.

Like here he is you know, unqualified for this. And yet, it is the thing that will give him a lot of early name recognition buzz, etcetera.

Happy you’re gonna be when your boy, Tim Ryan, Slays him in twenty twenty four, Sarah?

Yeah. Well, we need Tim Ryan to win that Senate seat first, then I think he jumps the front. I don’t know if you’re gonna do rapid fire with all these. I I hate to be the one to say we’re running long, but we are, and I’ve gotta

go. I’m not gonna do rapid fire. I done the the conductor on this train. You’re at a great ship?

We’re only at fifty seven minutes, fifty seven seconds. I’ll just say this, one more thing, because you brought up the fighting thing. And this is why it’s nervous about Gavin is something, then I’ll be finished.

The

the the human flaw that that makes people want to see their enemies be owned is not just a flaw that is held among Republican based voters. Right? Like, it is very overdeveloped in extreme and psychopathic ways among Republican based voters, but other humans have that, I have that weakness. Everyone has that. Not everyone.

Many, many people have

that weakness. Not Sarah. Sarah is just pure goodness.

Sarah’s pure goodness. I have that weakness. Democratic based voters do. And if Gavin positions himself as the guide is willing to whatever, troll the hardest there could be an appeal there and I’m just asking people resist it. Resistance your internal demons and just say no.

No. Thanks. Alright. Good show, long show. Reminder

to everybody. If you like the next level, hit the subscribe button. Hit the like button. Do both of those things right down there. And then go to the bulwark dot com.

We got all of the things. We have new articles written every day, new podcasts every day, videos. Go and sign up for Charlie Sykes’s fantastic free newsletter, morning shots.

You can get it at the bulwark dot com. I’m promoting one non Bulwark thing for Lee. I’m on Showtime’s The Circus on Sunday. So if you have Showtime, watch it. If you don’t have Showtime, still, like, tweet at the Showtime people and be, like, your guests this week, really handsome.

Boy, that

guy, too. He’s so thin.

Thin. Yeah. Smart. You don’t have to watch it. You just you know what?

You’re gonna get

it. Oh, you know what? Vice is outside my office right now waiting a film with me. So Tim’s not the only one and that’s why I’ve gotta go. That’s weird.

Nobody ever asked me to do any of these things. Look at that ass. Look at that.

Gotta goo. Obviously. Alright. Bye, guys. Yeah.