Netflix’s Soft Earnings and the ‘Barbenheimmer’ Juggernaut

Welcome back to the Bulwark goes to Hollywood. My name is Sunny Bunch from Culture Editor the Bulwark, and I’m very pleased to be rejoined today by Ryan Fonder. Now Ryan is at the Los Angeles Times. What’s the name of your newsletter, Ryan?

It’s called the wide shot.

The wide shot.

Every Tuesday.

Wide shot comes on every Tuesday. I read it every Tuesday. It’s great. Sign up for it. And I I love having Ryan on because, you know, it’s always it’s always good to get somebody who’s who’s out in LA on the show, you know, maybe being based here in Dallas, it makes things hard sometimes to really see what’s going on.

On ground.

To talk to us, people. Yeah.

So let’s talk alright. So the big news this week is probably the Netflix earnings call. I mean, there’s other news going. We got a lot of stuff to talk about. This week, but the the the Netflix earnings call seems to be the big thing.

And I’ll be honest when I saw they had months, I thought, oh, this is good news for Netflix. Netflix says they they added five point nine. Million new subscribers. You know, their their revenue is is stable. They’re they’re actually like slightly more profitable now.

But the market did not seem to respond and kind. What did I what did I miss in the the the or what should I have expected from the reaction to the numbers here?

Yeah. I mean, Wall Street reactions are always a little bit of a puzzle or sometimes a little bit of a puzzle. Sometimes it’s not all that obvious. But this time, it looked like yeah. There was a little bit of softness in revenue growth.

So despite adding almost six million, your subscribers globally for Netflix during the second quarter. Their revenue was just a tad underwrote Wall Street estimates going into the earnings report. So I think But you’re seeing there seem to be like, okay. There’s a lot more subscribers coming on because, you know, partly because of the password sharing crackdown. That didn’t necessarily translate into a ton of new revenue yet.

I mean, definitely definitely a bump, but not not maybe as much as some people were we’re hoping for.

Well, it’s it’s interesting because, I mean, if you look at the the what the the figure that, you know, folks like to focus on here the ARPU, the average revenue per user. Netflix has a different name for it. Average revenue per member or something like that.

Something like that. Yeah. Yeah. But it all means the same thing.

All means the same thing. You what you saw was more again, more subscribers, but a lower ARPU for basically, the static earnings, which I mean, I guess is kind of surprising, but also makes some sense since what, you know, it’s kind of Isn’t this more or less what people expected to happen when they when they started crackdown the crackdown on password sharing?

Yeah. And also, when they added ad sharing or the ad supported tier, you know, because the ad supported tier, you have a, you know, the lower monthly fee, but you also have advertising revenue coming in. So maybe Netflix’s ad revenue hasn’t quite got up to or might be missing out on from the lower monthly fees. It’s also worth noting that Netflix has ditched its basic plan now. It’s basic without ads, it’s basic ad free plan, which I believe is like nine ninety nine a month or something like that.

Yeah. For new members for new new members and returning members. If you’re still if you’re already signed on to that, you can keep playing for it, pay for it. But

Yeah. I mean, that really was one of I I I’ve talked about this before on other shows, but it really is a fantastic deal that is kind of subsidized by a lot of free money and other stuff that I don’t know that they they have the wherewithal for anymore, which is this this basic ad free ten dollar a month plan, so many movies, so many new shows, it it made some sense. But, you know, I I was reading I was reading that the average revenue per user for the Add supported plan once you so there’s the, you know, seven seven bucks a month per month or whatever, but also the advertising revenue. Came out to something like fifteen dollars a month, sixteen dollars a month. It’s crazy.

Mhmm. Yeah. Which is about, you know, let’s what you would hope for. It’s it’s in in some case, we’ve seen that with other companies too, where their ARPU actually increases from having the advertising. And the lower subscription tier.

So clearly, Netflix is succeeding in getting more people in the door. Are getting more people to come back. And certainly, the the the great news for Netflix is that there wasn’t a whole lot of cancellations. When they started cracking down on the passwords. That was that was definitely a risk because you hear all these people online saying, how dare they?

Not allow me to share my password with my ex girlfriend who I haven’t lived with in in three years. Or or share or share it with my in laws or or whatever, shout out to the in laws out there. But the they’re just wasn’t a lot of cancellation. You just didn’t didn’t really see that. That’s what they sent their shareholder letter.

The lesson as always is the Internet is not real life. Don’t listen to people on Twitter, ever.

How dare you burst my Barbenheimer bubble? Internet is absolutely real life.

We will. We’ll get with that.

In one case only.

We’ll we’ll get to that we’ll get to that in a minute. Alright. So this because I I am I am actually really I am fascinated and, like, intellectually and ideologically obsessed with the the argument that folks were making that like, oh, this is actually bad It’s bad business for Netflix to cut off freeloaders because reasons. And I could never figure out what the reasons were. Can what is the argument for saying?

Well, if we’re not we’re not if if you if you a freeloader say, I am not gonna pay for a subscription so I’m just gonna steal the thing for free. How is that Why why on earth would Netflix care? Either way, it’s zero dollars in revenue. That doesn’t make any sense.

Yeah. It seems like it’s kind of an offshoot of that old Internet idea of information just wants to be free, content wants to be free, you know, just the whole thing. It’s sort of a twenty year old idea at this point, but it was bad business. It’s a terrible idea. And Netflix was happy, I think, for a while, to just have people just get addicted, just get on get on that joint, like, just just getting the getting some content for free, sure.

You know, share it with your with your in laws. Share it with your your neighbor. That’s just gonna get people addicted to Netflix stuff. But at some at a certain point, like, it’s the classic it’s a classic idea of you get everybody in the door, you get everybody loving your content, and then you jack up the price, or then you force people to pay eight dollars a month. Or something like that.

So this is probably the least surprising move that Netflix ever could have made.

Yeah. I mean, content Content does not want to be free, but content does seem to want to be ad supported. I I Again, the thing the number that jumps out at me the most is the average revenue per user of fifteen or sixteen bucks a month for the ad supported tier, which is frankly higher than I thought it would be. I I did not. I I was I was a little surprised.

By that. This the the ad tiers do seem to be kind of the future of the streaming model. Right?

Yeah. They’re the they’re the present. They’re they’re they’re certainly what’s happening right now, and I’m sure as as as Netflix goes, so it goes the rest of the industry. And they’ve already, you know, they’ve already done it with with Disney Plus and HBO Max, now Max. Sorry, old habits.

Yeah.

But everyone everyone seems to have a that’s put into your account.

Ads. That’s what That’s that’s how they get you the ads. Alright. So let’s talk let’s let’s shift gears slightly here from streaming to theatrical, big weekend, in the theaters this week, you’ve we’ve got a huge opening for Barbie And — Yes. — a I mean, I I I’m I’m shocked by some of the numbers we’re seeing coming in, but also a huge weekend for Oppenheim.

And then, it looks like we’re gonna have another huge weekend for Sound of Freedom, The Independent Film from Angel Studios about Child Traffic. It looks like, you know, I I assuming that we don’t see mission impossible dead reckoning part one fall completely off a cliff, that movie will probably make another twenty million bucks And I like, I can’t remember the last time we had four movies Prime to make more than twenty million bucks in the same weekend. It’s it’s crazy.

Yeah. And it’s funny because this has become a cultural moment just because there are there’s more than one movie in a theater at the same time, and it’s and there are two really big movies that are brand new and targeting a pretty different audience. But this used to be basically every summer weekend. At the at the box office. Like, I can’t remember.

I saw what was that article? What opened, like, against the dark knight.

Mamma Mia.

Yeah, Mamma Mia. This is I mean, this is a perfect example of how this industry used to work like counter programming. That’s it’s not a new idea, but it is hilarious that it’s just been memed to death. With all the t shirts and everything.

So, what are we, what are the first indications looking at. This is gonna We’re we’re taping this on Friday, just pulling back the curtain slightly. We’re taping this on Friday, so we have some idea of what the the box office weekend is gonna look like. I mean, my my sense from the I I I had thirty minutes to kill yesterday, so I popped into an Alamo draft house and just sat at the bar and had a drink, and while I was sitting there, I saw no fewer than three different giant groups of women clad all in pink. Come in to take photos in front of the Barbie Stanley, which led me to instantly understand that this movie is gonna make, I don’t know, a hundred fifty million dollars this weekend.

Yeah. I mean, it’s not it’s not on the question. The twenty two I think it was twenty two million dollars from Thursday previews. I mean, that’s, like, Marvel movie. Territory.

Right? So easily easily above a hundred million. Definitely, what can I one twenty I mean, maybe it’s front loaded? I don’t know. It seems like the audience response is gonna be it’s gonna be pretty strong here.

So I don’t know. When I saw when I first saw the predictions of a hundred forty, a hundred forty million, I thought that’s maybe a little irresponsible considering the the whackiness we’ve seen would audience tracking lately, but we’ll see. It’s it’s it could do it. Do it.

Do we are we we are still in kind of a weird place audience tracking. Right? Because I do feel like we get a lot of projections that either overshoot or undershoot by eight figures like on a on a fairly regular basis. And I, you know, look, that’s always been part of the part of the box office game. Right?

It’s always been kind of a guessing game, but I do feel like things have gotten especially wonky since the pandemic trying to figure out the behavior of audiences.

Yeah and the comps are kind of off too and I I pointed this out a number of times, but a lot of the stuff that you’ve seen come out recently kinda underperform tracking, these little kinda targeting the same audience and you get a mission impossible, which is a good film. Targeting adult men, you know, open slightly below tracking. And Indiana Jones and Tylodecine definitely coming in on the light side, especially relative to his budget, similar audience there. And then before that, he hit the flash, Transformer’s rise of the beast. There’s just, like, a lot of kinda male oriented things.

So it’s really not surprising at all on that. If you have a movie that is is primarily for women, young women, but, like, definitely across the board. It looks like it’s gonna take off with a lot of demos. And you just market the hell out of it. Like, no kidding.

It’s gonna it’s gonna do huge business.

What do you do you you know, I was just talking about how the internet is not real life, the internet is is not real. And I I do believe that mostly, but I do think that there is modest meme factor going on with, especially the Barbie stuff. You know, I I I do feel like the the opportunity to play dress up and go out and have a nice time with your lady friends. You know, it’s not that that’s not how I roll, but I’m not I’m not a, you know, Woman between the age of twenty and fifty. So, like, I’m not, you know, the target demo here.

That that does It does seem to be playing a real role in driving audiences to theaters. Right?

Yeah. I mean, it really seems so. I mean, I I you you see all the talk about people signing up for double features, AMC put out a press release saying that twenty thousand of its stubs members had already purchased advanced tickets for double features. That was last week. NATO is really the National Association of theater owners, not that other NATO, is really interested in this phenomenon.

And, yeah, the double features probably represent a relatively small portion of the box box office if you do the math, but it does contribute to the sense of, like, there is something going on here, and people are talking about it. Me just kinda hanging out just last night. Just got a glass of wine with with my wife. In in the evening, you know, one of our friends’ WiFi was talking about how they had just figured out their Barbenheimer plan for the weekend. So that’s definitely a thing.

Definitely a thing.

I it’s been a while since The the experience of going to a movie theater was this kind of big cultural event. And I don’t mean I I kind of exclude the Marvel stuff from this because the Marvel movies are doing a very specific thing, you know, kind of kind of unto themselves. I I just mean the idea of like, we’re going to the move. We’re making it we’re making a point of going to the movies. We’re gonna find the best presentation of Oppenheimer that we can find.

You know, I’m trying to track down of fifteen seventy IMAX screen. There’s only nineteen of them in the country. You know, where am I gonna go see? Like, it’s actually really it’s heartening in a way. And, like, I frankly, a real, I think, suggestion to Hollywood that, like, People are tired of a lot of seeing the same old thing over and over again.

We got two original movies out this week. They’re about to do huge, huge business.

Yeah. I mean, original and design for that big screen experience too. I mean, Nolan is is not to beat a dead horse about the the Nolan thing, but, I mean, all to talk about, like, you gotta see it in iMAX or seventy millimeter or iMac seventy millimeter or whichever your choice may be. I mean, there’s only a few presentations of that. David Paul and tweets something that Chinese theater was trying to add screenings at six o’clock in the morning, which is

Two thirty in the morning. I saw a two thirty in the morning showing.

And I’m sure they’ll be packed. I mean, this is this is LA. This is a, you know, movies. This is a movie town. No question about it.

But that is that’s pretty extraordinary to see to see people just kind of yeah. We don’t have lines out the door anymore because of advanced ticket sales. But, like, that kind of need to see this weekend in the in the craziest format possible.

Yeah. Somebody sent me a a press release. There’s a cinemark near me that has the the IMAX seventy millimeter, you know, again, one of the nineteen theaters in the country or in the world or whatever that that has that system. And they were adding, you know, six thirty AM showings. And this is I mean, this is in Dallas.

It’s not Los Angeles or Manhattan. Yeah. Dallas is a pretty good movie going town, but it’s not it’s not that good. And it’s wild wild stuff. I mean, the numbers for for Oppenheimer are crazy.

I’m seeing I’m seeing, again, estimates of in the sixty to seventy million dollar range. This weekend, which would be huge. I I I massive.

For me like this for a three hour historical drama, A lot of it’s in black and white. Yeah. It’s not a really not not a lot of huge stars. I mean, Matt Devis, but, like, Yeah. Yeah.

Well, it’s got it’s got Damon and Robert Downey junior, but they’re not the leads. They’re not — No. — they’re not the guy who’s on the poster, Kelly Murphy is. And like, I I I mean, I again, it’s, you know, that would be, if it opened to sixty million dollars, that fifty percent better than once upon a time in Hollywood did. Which is a crazy idea just, you know, for a movie like this.

It also just speaks to, like, with certain directors, And we talk about brands and IP and everything else, kinda outweighing everything the the the star power and the quality of the movie and everything, but if you there are certain directors, filmmakers, whose movies are events, no one’s one of them. Tarantino’s definitely one of them. Yeah. It’s just it’s and having something having something new and something exciting that people are talking about, you know, it’s it’s it’s that experience. It’s that the idea that your teeth are gonna be shattered by sitting through the the explosions or what and and whatnot?

It is.

I don’t know.

Yeah. It’s — It’s wild. —

yeah. Yeah.

And then there is there is another story at the box office the last couple weeks here. We’ve got Sound to Freedom, which again is is an interesting, very strong word-of-mouth Hit, you know, I I I went to go see it in a theater this week because I figured I should have some idea what people are talking about since it’s so popular. And I wanna I wanna set the scene here for folks who don’t know who don’t know about this. So at the end of the movie, Jim Kavizel comes on the screen and he does a thank you for coming to the movie theater speech. You know, of the sort we’ve seen a lot of in front of movies.

Right? We see it you saw it in front of Mission Impossible Debt reckoning. The the dungeons and dragons movie, the cast is there saying thanks for coming to the theaters as I should see. Movies’s how they’re meant to be seen. But at this this came at the end of Sound of Freedom.

And it’s Jim Coviso on the screen. He said, thank you for coming. This is the best way to see a movie in, you know, in a in a in a large room with other people. We’re all we’re all here together. We don’t want anyone to not be able to see this movie because they can’t afford it, so we’re gonna give you a chance to pay it forward.

QR code’s gonna come on the screen and if you feel so inclined, you wanna help somebody who who can’t afford to see the movie, come see it, scan the code by ticket, we’ll get it to them. And I swear to God, hand to God. I saw a woman who was who was exiting the theater turn around when he started talking. Watch him. When the QR code came up, she pulled out her phone scanned it, and as best as I could tell from two or three rows back bought a ticket.

I I’ve never seen anything like that before in a theater. It’s it’s absolutely wild. Yeah. Is there is there is there any chatter about the sort of the surprise or, you know, what what people make of?

It’s I mean, it is the biggest other than the Barbara stuff, it is the biggest story at the box office. Right now. And I think a lot of people are sort of baffled by it in in a way and sort of trying to figure out this like, explain away the phenomenon a little bit. And I think, you know, there’s there’s a lot of questions about how much of the box office is this kind of pay it forward. Dynamic, you know, there’s with with movies that are faith based or faith based adjacent, There’s the whole group buying phenomenon where people will buy it a whole theater for people to see it.

So I’m sure there’s some of that, but it does seem like it’s an organic thing in a lot in a lot of ways. Like, there is definitely a lot of word-of-mouth here. There’s kind of an underserved audience element to it. And but I I but I can’t dismiss it. You know, we we can’t dismiss it as just kind of a as one of these sort of cause type of films because, you know, just the the week it came out, that Monday just anecdotally, like my son’s my my son’s nanny came in the house, and the first thing she started talking about was that she had seen this movie called Soundafraid.

I’ve been like, what is this? And was very moved by it, so there definitely seems to be a real groundswell here.

Yeah. Totally. I I I mean, again, I’ve never seen anything in the theater. Yeah. People literally people literally buying tickets for strangers to go see this movie that they were so moved by, which is you know, again, it’s a it’s a testament to the power of theaters.

Let’s see.

Alright. So what else is going on? Speaking of theaters, we’ve got strike news here. The studios are starting to pull releases just before we started talking. Eight twenty four announced that they are pushing pushing back the release date of Problemista, which is was gonna be one of their September, October, award season type films or I think maybe August.

I can’t remember when it was gonna come out. Point is they’re pushing it back. The look at Guadranino film challengers is getting pushed back, the the aka, the Zendaya, tennis threesome, movie getting getting pushed back. And Warner Brothers is now kind of hinting, well, we might have to push back Dune two, you know, if the if the people aren’t here to promote it. What does what does the rest of the year look like in terms of release strategy?

Are we gonna see an empty September, October, November, December again like we have the last couple of years, just because studios are too afraid to put things out without promotion?

I don’t know about empty, but you’re definitely gonna see some stuff shuffle when you need, especially with movies that aren’t, very IP driven or don’t have a brand or don’t have a sequel sort of fueling its interests. Like, you need Zendale, walk in the red carpet. You need, like, pretty people talking to the press and posing for photographs and doing TV spots and and all of that. Especially especially for smaller films. It’s it’s really essential to the publicity machine.

So it’s not it’s not surprising at all that things are starting to to move, especially on the Indy front. I do think it sort of speaks to this issue that I’ve been pushing back on a lot, which is that people saying this sort of Wall Street brain like, actually, the studios are happy about the strike because they’re able to save money on production because they’re and they’re able to to cut out all their writer deals And there might be some truth to that, but the fact is that this strike is really, really gonna hurt everybody in the industry, like the studios. Like stuff’s just not getting done and studios like can cut revenue or cut costs all they want. But they have to bring in revenue, and theaters are a huge way as we see. They’re an essential part of the equation for for legacy media companies.

To build the profits.

Well, I mean, I the the people I feel, you know, worse for, the the the folks who are stuck in the middle You’ve got your theater, employees, and theater owners who are looking at essentially the second a second COVID like shutdown. In in movie releases, not quite as Stark perhaps, but still pretty pretty bad. You’re looking at, you know, folks in folks in supporting industry trees. You know, the I have a friend who does closed captions. And he’s like, we’re maybe gonna get laid off.

Like I because we don’t have we don’t have movies to close caption. I like, I I think it’s I I mean, you know, I understand that that labor discussions are difficult and everybody wants to everything and, you know, the the studios don’t want to give up precedent setting deals and all that, but after having just lived through an An unexpected disaster in the form of COVID, it really feels like we’re rushing towards another self inflicted one.

Yeah. I mean, we saw Barry Diller saying that basically it’s gonna it’s gonna destroy the business for for for and have a lot of long term ripple effects When you talk to people who are below the line, crew workers, and Iyatzi, you know, just writing a big story about this now, actually, that I’ll publish soon, is that the is that generally, when you talk to hairdressers and set designers, they’re definitely supportive of striking the writers and the and the actors and what they’re demanding. Are all facing the same problems. On the flip side, like, they are hurting. Like, they are having to go to the act respond or these various bonds that that that support people who are out of work for a long time in the business.

It gets not easy to live in some place like Los Angeles and not work for six months. Unless your parents are rich, and that’s like a whole other issue with entertainment and access and diversity and the whole thing.

Yeah. Yeah. It’s it’s it’s crazy out there. I mean, and to the extent that now, there was a big story this week. About Universal literally cutting cutting down tree shade to to, you know, burn burn the protesters out.

Burn the burn the the picket ears out. What was that all about?

So there’s no real way to know yet. Intentionality. This feels silly to even say it out loud, but but it’s it’s it’s it was kind of the most LA thing to happen. Yet a ninety degree plus heat wave during the summer, sun blazing down, and people are going on a strike. And it’s the it’s it’s the universal corner, like where where that pick is happening.

Is one of the hottest one of the hottest places that you could pick it in in LA. So the fact that this tree cover came down, it became kind of a meme, it became kind of a a a point of of controversy. And people actually came out and picket lines. Like I saw one woman come out wearing, like, wearing, like, a a kind of a tree crown on her head with a sign that said never forget. And it was just it just became this whole thing.

And the city controller said they were gonna investigate it because apparently their who whoever was responsible for trimming the trees haven’t taken out permits for that location in, like, three years. Universal says it was all just a big misunderstanding. They do annual tree trimming to sort of avoid. Safety problems when the winds come through. So I guess so that the the the tree branches don’t get knocked down and destroy cars and stuff, But, man, the timing of that, it it could couldn’t have been couldn’t have been worse, couldn’t have looked worse.

Yeah. And universal I I think I just saw that universal did actually set up tents.

They did.

Outside, they were like, ah, we we messed up. We we went a little too far this time. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We messed up trying to burn out the the the protesters, but you know, the and so the so the WJI was able to declare victory, at least on that one.

Yeah. What do you I well, just as a as an outsider or as an on the ground but outside observer, what what do you what do you think the odds are of this getting settled anytime here in the next few months? I mean, I I get the sense we’re in for a long shut down.

The the word I keep hearing is December. Whereas I, you know, you asked me a few weeks ago, the word I was hearing then was November. So we just keep getting pushed back four weeks of time, I guess. I I I I don’t know. But, like, if this goes on through the holidays, it’s gonna be it’s gonna be a big problem.

Yeah. It’s not not ideal. Alright. As you as you know, I like to close these interviews by asking if there’s anything I should have asked if you think there’s anything, folks should know? About what’s going on in the world of the business of showbiz.

What’s what’s up?

God, you know, you ask me this question every time. So I should probably be more prepared for it. I don’t have anything right now. I’m trying to Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

It’s fine.

I mean, I guess, you guys talked about the you guys talked about the the Bob Eiger stuff and all all that.

We could talk about Bob Eiger. What’s going what’s going on? Yeah. So Disney is looking to to possibly sell off portions of the Empire Bob Eiger’s in spin off mode? What’s what’s happening there?

Well, what I what I what I had think it what I was thinking about most recently was this, you know, idea of who’s gonna play the leadership role in the strike situation. Like, in the past, you had sort of like the Lou wasserman type of elder statesman, that would come through and bring the sides together during a strike and hammer a deal. And, yeah, even five, three years ago, you would assume that person would be Bob Eiger, but he kinda stepped in it in that c n b c interview where he talked about how the the writers’ demands were were unrealistic or ex you know, not realistic, he said, technically. But but, yeah, he’s kinda he’s kind of in hot water over over that and kinda do a little damage control. So it can’t be him right away.

He could still totally swoop in, you know, once things kinda tamp down a little bit in terms of the rhetoric, but Now it’s like, okay. Is is Netflix gonna be leading the way in terms of determining when this happens? Because right now they’re doing, you know, like everybody, they’re hurting from the strike, but they’re the ones whose stock price is is is still climbing. So I don’t know. It’s kind of my big question.

Is there any I I know this is this is something that the the folks on the side of the the actors and the writers are constantly asking, and it seems like the answer is always no, but is there any chance of splitting off? The a m p t p into smaller, you know, picking off Warner Brothers or something like that and making a deal with them. Or or does it look like the producers in the studios are gonna stick together throughout?

Well, for now, it’s a united front, of course, but you know, I mean, it would be a very extreme circumstance to have, you know, Netflix break off and, you know, like actually, here’s everything you want. Writers and to actors, and we can resume business without the without the rest of the studios. And that’s the thing that has been floated that could could potentially happen. I’m not hearing any, like, actual rumblings of that happening yet, but that would be

Yeah. It definitely seems to be a lot of wish casting from Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. A lot of like, well, this would be great if this did happen, but I don’t I don’t see the I don’t see the studios cracking on that front.

No. No. Not anytime soon anyway. Maybe if it goes into next summer, that would be don’t mean to take them. Alright.

If it goes into next summer, we might as well shot Hollywood down forever because I, like, I I just don’t understand how how everyone would survive. Alright. Thanks, Ryan. Thanks again for being on the show. I always love having you on.

Author of the wide shot newsletter at the Los Angeles Times. Free newsletter goes sign up for it. It’s great. I’ll have a link to it in the email. Ryan, thanks for being on the show.

Yeah. Thank you, Sunny. Talk to you later.

Again, my name is Sunny Bunch. I’m called your editor at the Bulwark, and I will be back next week with another episode of The Bulwark goes to Hollywood. We’ll see you guys in.

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