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MAGA Learns Chaos Isn’t Alway a Ladder

October 18, 2023
Notes
Transcript
The disfunction on The Hill continues with Jim Jordan the latest GOP hopeful to get rejected for the Speakership by his own party. What will finally make them work with Democrats to re-open the government?

Plus, Nancy Mace’s weirdness could stem from a desire to be Trump’s VP, DeSantis and Haley spar over U.S. policy towards refugees (and the difference between citizens and terrorists), and JVL and Tim debate who is better: Taylor Swift or Beyonce.

This episode is brought to you by BetterHelp. Give online therapy a try at betterhelp.com/nextlevel and get on your way to being your best self.

Watch the gang record this episode on The Bulwark’s official YouTube channel here: https://youtu.be/DlPRYN-EoxM

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors and omissions. Ironically, the transcription service has particular problems with the word “bulwark,” so you may see it mangled as “Bullard,” “Boulart,” or even “bull word.” Enjoy!
  • Speaker 1
    0:00:05

    Hello, everyone. Welcome to the next level. I’m J VL here with my best friends, Tim Miller and Sarah Longwell, of the Boat Walk. Hit subscribe. Give us five stars.
  • Speaker 1
    0:00:16

    Do thumbs up. Do all the things. We got a big power pack show today. I can already tell it’s a good show and a long show. Lots of important issues, lots of news happening.
  • Speaker 1
    0:00:27

    Sarah, where do you wanna start? The Philadelphia Affili’s or Taylor Swift?
  • Speaker 2
    0:00:33

    Don’t make me choose between two things I don’t wanna talk about.
  • Speaker 3
    0:00:37

    We’re gonna get to Taylor. Alright. People are gonna get to Taylor.
  • Speaker 1
    0:00:40

    So we have to talk about the speaker’s race because we are on week two, I guess, the end of week two of the the people’s house. The people’s body note not having a speaker because the Republican Party isn’t great at at governing. I do I do wonder though.
  • Speaker 3
    0:00:55

    I am sick of that phrase, the people’s house.
  • Speaker 1
    0:00:57

    It’s the people’s house, Tim.
  • Speaker 3
    0:00:58

    To watch these floury floor speeches from people that can’t pick
  • Speaker 1
    0:01:03

    a team
  • Speaker 2
    0:01:03

    captain talking about
  • Speaker 3
    0:01:04

    the honor of serving the people’s house. Just stop. I can’t hear it anymore.
  • Speaker 1
    0:01:10

    I would like to start by asking Sarah Longwell the vote yesterday. Hakim Jefferies got two hundred twelve votes. Jim Jordan got two hundred votes. Why, have the Republicans not for the good of the country broken off to join with Democrats to make hakeem I mean, don’t they bear some responsibility in all of this?
  • Speaker 2
    0:01:32

    Concern.
  • Speaker 1
    0:01:32

    I’m kidding. This is just concerned trolling.
  • Speaker 2
    0:01:34

    I know. Can I actually, can I tell you just real quick? I’ve had the strategic play. This is what I think they should do. Why don’t this is the problem with not exactly the moderates, but like the kind of people who sort of wanna govern because I don’t think they’re exactly moderates.
  • Speaker 2
    0:01:48

    I think I was on the phone with a reporter, and they were trying to tell me they were moderates. And I was like, actually, some of them are are conservative. Yeah. They’re not moderates. They’re just No.
  • Speaker 2
    0:01:54

    People who still think governing, like, should happen. And here’s what I think they should do. They should go to, like, the chaos caucus and be like, make one of us speaker or we’re gonna work with the Democrats. Like, they don’t, like, we keep talking about, like, they have to work with the Democrats. Why?
  • Speaker 3
    0:02:11

    Week to News Max in, like, one second. It’s not
  • Speaker 1
    0:02:13

    a credible threat.
  • Speaker 2
    0:02:15

    The you can’t
  • Speaker 1
    0:02:15

    because they’re not gonna work with Democrats. The only unforgivable sin. The reason Kevin McCarthy isn’t speaker is because he worked with Democrats. You can be indicted on felony Charlie Sykes can do anything you want and still basically be okay.
  • Speaker 2
    0:02:28

    You and I normally are in opposite roles here. I’m usually accusing you of Fantasy politics, but like, This there is a situation where because this is a negotiation. So you can go to Democrats and say we’re gonna we’re gonna switch to independent and you’re gonna make sure no Democrats run against us, for our seat. And, you know, we’re gonna work together and we’re only gonna do these five things. Like, we’re gonna keep the government open, we’re gonna pay the debt, you know, whatever.
  • Speaker 2
    0:02:54

    There are just a world where you could be having a conversation. I think that’s much more productive than the one they’re gonna have, unless so I have a bunch of things to say on this, but and I wanna give too many chance to talk, but like I just I I don’t know what we did good, to deserve, to get to watch both Kevin McCarthy and Jim Jordan go down the way they’re going down. Steve scalise.
  • Speaker 1
    0:03:19

    Don’t forget Steve scalise going down too. We got to see all three of them.
  • Speaker 3
    0:03:21

    His cancer has been shot. So it’s a little less satisfying.
  • Speaker 2
    0:03:25

    So right now as we tape, it’s like nine ish AM. They’re supposed to hold this vote at eleven. I’m interested to know whether you guys think they’ll actually even do it. Because it looks like he’ll go down again. And then I think what would what may end up happening with starting to be floated is McHenry.
  • Speaker 2
    0:03:41

    Yeah. And I just wanna say one thing about McHenry. Mhmm. Who is quite conservative and like not somebody I’d normally be like, yeah. But he certified the election, and he didn’t sign on to the Amicus brief.
  • Speaker 2
    0:03:52

    So we’ve got this like report card that our team has put together. Not nothing. Democracy report card. And so, like, I can go look at all their votes really easily. Those are, like, the two things that I think separate.
  • Speaker 2
    0:04:02

    Like, he is not a and a a hardcore election denier. And I think the low, low, low bar we live by now, like, that would be okay with me.
  • Speaker 3
    0:04:10

    Okay.
  • Speaker 2
    0:04:11

    Yeah. Sure. That’s the end of it. That’s the end of it.
  • Speaker 3
    0:04:12

    That’s fine. Yeah. No. Please. I I think we have more to rent out.
  • Speaker 3
    0:04:15

    I do wanna say, so since we are taking this before eleven, I can I I wanna stay out of the prediction business because these these guys don’t even know what they’re gonna do? Right? Like literally Kay Granger Granger doesn’t even know how she’s gonna vote in two hours. So why should I predict how Kay Granger? Just gonna vote in two hours.
  • Speaker 3
    0:04:29

    But, we we do have a pretty hot YouTube page lately. I don’t know if you’ve noticed it. The people should be subscribing to. So with with more, you know, kind of on the minute commentary. So, maybe, you know, maybe pop over to there if anything, happened after we taped that that required, you know, my hot takes.
  • Speaker 3
    0:04:43

    But, here’s the thing. I I just I don’t think they they don’t have two seventeen votes for anything. And here’s my problem with the McHenry thing. And maybe it’ll happen as a very short term item. And and maybe JBL can explain this to me because he’s the game theory expert.
  • Speaker 3
    0:04:59

    But I don’t understand why there would be I mean, how many votes are they gonna need fifty for McHenry? Sixty? Well, I why would sixty Republicans do something that Steve Van and Sean Hannity Fox, Matt Gates, Jim Jordan, a condemnedagogue about? But five wouldn’t. Like, to me, the the McHenry thing seems very challenging to figure out.
  • Speaker 3
    0:05:22

    Now, is it that child could they figure it out for two weeks? Is there strength in numbers maybe? Which what
  • Speaker 1
    0:05:27

    do you mean
  • Speaker 2
    0:05:27

    by that?
  • Speaker 1
    0:05:27

    When you say do the McKinery thing, do you mean switch and decide to make him speaker or just expand his interim powers?
  • Speaker 3
    0:05:33

    Expand his interim powers. Yeah. Maybe the Democrats and and some
  • Speaker 2
    0:05:37

    percentage of the Republicans come to
  • Speaker 3
    0:05:38

    some agreement that’s like we can do the budget and Israel and whatever, something. And, you know, he’s limited in that regard. But the problem is that there I think there are gonna be some people that that are that could object to them that that he he would then be subject to the motion to vacate. Right? And then other people could to the fact that the speaker pro tem does not have this power, and then you go into all these votes and are the Democrats gonna have to keep bailing them out?
  • Speaker 3
    0:06:07

    The Republicans are gonna have to give the Democrats something juicy. In order for the Democrats, and maybe just to vote on Ukraine is enough because the the Democrats are rightly worried that whoever ends up getting the speakership won’t do that. But then if the Republicans give the Democrats something juicy to expand McHenry’s powers in the short term, a, why does Patrick McHenry wanna do this? He’s gonna be just annihilated from the Magga world, anyone even get a portrait out of it. And and b, again, like I’m saying, how do you whip through enough Republicans?
  • Speaker 3
    0:06:37

    For this. I’m not saying it’s not impossible not predicting it, but I, like, my feeling right now is that these guys just don’t have two hundred seventeen votes for anything. And that’s why I do not agree with Sarah’s Fantasy politics. Like, I think for the good of the country, five people would work with Democrats, but I’m a little curious why there is at one Kevin McCarthy style egomaniac in the problem solver’s caucus. Like doesn’t?
  • Speaker 3
    0:07:00

    Brian fit Patrick or Don Bacon look in the mirror and say, I could get a portrait. I’d be gone next year, but I could get a portrait right now. Like, if I just if I just pulled over four people and and got all the Democrats, the fact that there hasn’t been anybody with that kind of ambition is is is a little bit not so surprising, but but a little bit surprising. But to me, that seems like a smaller lift than the than the short term McKinery thing.
  • Speaker 1
    0:07:27

    Okay. Let’s just pretend that Don Bacon did that. Right? He’s in went and became speaker. I mean, obviously, he would be primary and would lose his his reelection.
  • Speaker 3
    0:07:37

    You get a portrait out of it.
  • Speaker 1
    0:07:39

    He would get a portrait. He would then, get to get a bunch of law being dollars, maybe Bored. But maybe not. Because once he’s at off, I mean, he then is viewed as the Benedict Darn, the modern day, Benedict Darnold.
  • Speaker 3
    0:07:51

    No. The corporate what corporate would put him on board? Yeah. J. P.
  • Speaker 3
    0:07:55

    Morgan Chase and all these. Do you
  • Speaker 2
    0:07:56

    know how desperate people are for, like, a good Republican, any bipartisan thing? I think you you live a great life. You do you make one move. So I I mean, I agree with Tim. I just want them to do something.
  • Speaker 2
    0:08:09

    Like, I guess Ten bucks
  • Speaker 3
    0:08:10

    try to doing this. Section.
  • Speaker 2
    0:08:11

    Well, but Ken Buck, but here’s the thing. What’s Ken Buck’s next move?
  • Speaker 3
    0:08:14

    TV. You know what’s the CNN?
  • Speaker 2
    0:08:15

    Yeah. He’s the CNN contract. Yeah. But like, good. Go live that life.
  • Speaker 2
    0:08:18

    Like, you can’t find five people that, like, wanna have that life. And also the and this is the thing that always makes me crazy when people are doing like real politics. They’re like, well, the real, they’re all gonna get primary. And I’m like, or or just hear me out. You can do the right thing, and then go off into the sunset, be rich and a whole bunch of people will bow to you forever saying you’re somebody who tried to save democracy and act like an act like a grown up at time.
  • Speaker 3
    0:08:45

    Get invited to these fancy Georgetown cocktail parties I keep hearing so much about. I mean, there’s just there’s a lot of upside. Did you like, our boy came back? Did you see his interview at Danabash yesterday? It’s it’s like my favorite interview that a politician has given a long time.
  • Speaker 3
    0:08:58

    So he voted for Tom Emmer. He’s like some random lead, you know, at the bottom of the lead chip chain for speaker and Dana says to him. She’s like, so why’d you vote for Tom Emma? And he, like, doesn’t give an answer and she’s like, do you even like Tom Emma? And he goes, no.
  • Speaker 3
    0:09:12

    And she goes, really goes, it’s kinda why I voted for him. It’s a terrible job. She’s like so you were sony for speaker that you actually don’t that you actively dislike. There’s something about that kind of spirit of spite and principle and Ken Buck that I, that I appreciate. But like, these guys don’t have a plan.
  • Speaker 3
    0:09:31

    It’s the it’s the real. The other part of the the fantasy politics thing is like at least the the crazy eight You know, remember back in the initial January vote. The first, they were trying to get Jordan, and then Jordan endorsed Mc McCarthy, And then they did the Byron Donald’s gambit, which was pretty fake and like pretty obviously tokenizing Byron Donald’s because he was black and like, hugging Jefferies is black and, like, that was pretty transparent, but, like, at least, they had a figure that they were putting forth. Like these guys aren’t haven’t even done that. Right?
  • Speaker 3
    0:10:02

    Like, the people pushing back on Jordan, they’re not offering an alternative. That’s why we’re flying back on this McHenry temporary speaker pro temps to because they don’t have it because they’re because here’s the fundamental thing here. No one can get two seventeen. Nobody can get two seventeen.
  • Speaker 2
    0:10:17

    But the point is is, like, if that the case, then why can’t you start? Like, at some point, there has to be something is going to happen. There’s going to be a path forward or orthogonal, whatever. Like, something’s gonna happen. So, like, This is the point where I do start to play a little fantasy politics because the reality is there’s no, like, obvious other thing that has If they just can’t get to two seventeen, so then what?
  • Speaker 2
    0:10:39

    Then what?
  • Speaker 1
    0:10:39

    The I think McKinry. I I think the McKinry thing is the obvious thing because nobody has to take credit for that. Right? It’s like, well, he’s just he’s there already. They’re like, we moved into this house and there was this bookcase there.
  • Speaker 1
    0:10:52

    And, we just decided to put the gavel on the bookcase. Right? We’re gonna put the gavel on the bookcase, and we’re not doing anything affirmatively. We’re just, you know, just trying to, you know, whatever. And we can have this fight later.
  • Speaker 1
    0:11:04

    I mean, the deeper problem I know this is that, of course, the Republican caucus is also riven on the actual, you know, we said there are five things they have to do. The problem in caucus does not agree with itself on what to be done about those thing. They don’t agree about what to do on Ukraine. They don’t agree about the government shutdown. And so But eventually, do what
  • Speaker 3
    0:11:21

    you’re saying requires Democrats. So, again, Like, at the end, eventually, you have to get to Democrats. And the question is how many Republicans actually care about this stuff because there’s a huge the advantage that Jordan has throughout this entire process. Is there’s maybe not a majority of of the conference, but, like, a substantial, like, once you count the Freedom caucus, plus the twenty that opposed McCarthy, plus the eight. There’s some overlap and all that.
  • Speaker 3
    0:11:45

    Like you’re getting to forty or fifty people that literally don’t care. If the house does nothing. Right. I there are at least, you know, a few dozen Republicans that do not care and they will go to the mat and they will not vote for a McKinry temporary solution, and they will not vote for a McKinry permanent speaker, and they will not vote for Steve Scalia Alec because they don’t give a fuck. They don’t what?
  • Speaker 3
    0:12:07

    So what? They’re not we’re not gonna fund Israel and Ukraine and we’re not gonna fund a, you know, and and we’re not gonna fund the deep state. Oh, well. So Jordan, I always thought that Jordan might be able to get this and and, you know, I think maybe the personal interpersonal issues are Maybe an understatement is maybe the reason why not is that he could at least horse trade on that stuff. Right?
  • Speaker 3
    0:12:28

    Where maybe these guys would go along with him because he could horse trade because he’s Jim Jordan. He has the credibility from, you know, his time, attempting a coup and, trying to get Hunter Biden arrested and impeach Right. Like, he has for all the crazy shit he died. He has these chits, but like, so those guys don’t care. So eventually you get to a point where it’s we do nothing in the government down or you need Democrats?
  • Speaker 2
    0:12:49

    Right. You need Democrats. So that’s, to me, that is, like, sort of where you wind up in your analysis. And, like, so there you where
  • Speaker 3
    0:12:55

    the government shuts down, though, not like today.
  • Speaker 2
    0:12:57

    Yeah.
  • Speaker 1
    0:12:58

    Right? Yeah. And who needs Democrats? That’s the other thing. Right?
  • Speaker 1
    0:13:00

    So who gets blamed? If you do the McHenry thing, there’s nobody to really blame for working with the it’s just like The call the Republican caucus is an amorphous thing decided to work with Democrats. You could
  • Speaker 3
    0:13:12

    have voted for it because while all that is happening, ju Jordan, if the conservative media complex is going, no. We cannot the demo, we cannot do this. We cannot fold to the damn site. I was in a Uber yesterday when the guys listened to Sean Hannity. Oh, how lucky for you.
  • Speaker 3
    0:13:27

    Pluses and minuses about moving to Louisiana. A lot of pluses. A lot of pluses. And by the way, this is not inviting your opinion on my move. A lot of people a lot of strangers would like to give me their opinion on my move.
  • Speaker 3
    0:13:37

    It’s been a wonderful move, but one of the downsides on the chit is that the Uber driver has Sean Hannity on. But it allows me to provide this content to you. Sean Hannity was like going hard on the McHenry thing. Like, this is this is what Dembs want, you are giving into them. Everyone needs to get in line.
  • Speaker 3
    0:13:53

    Dah dah dah dah. So, you know, so there will would be repercussions politically for Republicans that did it.
  • Speaker 2
    0:14:00

    But this is where there’s safety in numbers. I mean, this is why if you did it, right? So if you got fifty people that don’t care, you know, this is we were talking about this last time. Like, I think you’ve got fifty people who do care about funding Ukraine, funding Israel. And, like, part of the way, like, I just think that everybody asks for not that much.
  • Speaker 2
    0:14:20

    Like, they ask for things that are sort of broadly popular, like keeping the government open. Funding Ukraine in Israel. And, like, they can horse trade a little bit because I, you know, they’re not all the dems are gonna wanna fund Israel. And so, like, you could find In this moment, why couldn’t you find that? And and the punishment because I you’re right.
  • Speaker 2
    0:14:38

    There are repercussions, but like, when there are ten of you or five of you, they can single you out. When there’s eighty of you, it’s much harder.
  • Speaker 3
    0:14:45

    But McHenry, why does he want this to do this? No. Is it is it McHenry lighting himself on fire in the same way that Don Bacon would? What’s I just don’t understand what’s different about it.
  • Speaker 1
    0:14:55

    I don’t know. Because if you’re him, the future is uncertain and in chaos, there’s opportunity. And if you’re just if you’re the guy sitting in the chair, possession is nine tenth of the law, and who knows what happens twelve months from now? Yeah. Right?
  • Speaker 1
    0:15:09

    Maybe he winds up as, like, the a little speaker and a massive some power, I mean, or maybe it gets tossed out on his ear. I don’t I don’t know.
  • Speaker 2
    0:15:16

    No one knows your name and now everybody does. I mean, there’s some some of that.
  • Speaker 1
    0:15:19

    The Dems on ask for DC statehood.
  • Speaker 3
    0:15:22

    Pretty amazing.
  • Speaker 1
    0:15:23

    That ought to be the price.
  • Speaker 3
    0:15:24

    It’s it’s pretty amazing. Are you a couple of demos listening to this? I agree with this. Don’t go in, you know, out of the deal this fucking thing. Okay.
  • Speaker 3
    0:15:32

    Go in, Big.
  • Speaker 1
    0:15:33

    We’re happy to help you guys out.
  • Speaker 3
    0:15:38

    And, and we’ll start negotiating. Like, our opening bid is DC and Puerto Rico. Okay. Then we’ll start moving. We’ll start moving from there.
  • Speaker 3
    0:15:46

    Right? I agree. Like, why? There there there is gonna be pressure on Tims to bail these these people out because, like, you know, the responsible median pun. You know what I mean?
  • Speaker 3
    0:15:56

    Bob Costa and and the CNN pundit table. You know, it’ll be like Democrats need to be the adults here, and we just live through all this, but it’s like, do they?
  • Speaker 1
    0:16:04

    I why? They’re always the adults. They are the adults.
  • Speaker 3
    0:16:08

    They can’t choose a team captain. Like, they’re they’re they’re a children’s soccer team that is forfeiting because they cannot choose to accept them.
  • Speaker 2
    0:16:17

    But this is, like, forget, like, the idea that Democrats should just do it, like, for the good of the order, I think that’s, like, kind of a b s to ask them. And even and I’m sympathetic to some of that stuff, like, because I want things to be done for the good of the work.
  • Speaker 3
    0:16:29

    I love that about you.
  • Speaker 2
    0:16:31

    However, like, actually the way to be an adult here is to go in and be like, guys, we’ll bail you out. Here’s what we want for it. And just to start going hard, like, put the and you know what? They should do it publicly. They should start publicly putting things on the table.
  • Speaker 2
    0:16:44

    Say, like, The Democrats would be happy to work in a bipartisan way. We would love to do these things. And here’s what we we’re asking for for not that much. You guys gotta fund the government and keep it open. You gotta support our democratic allies, and you gotta give, yeah, give us one or two other things that we want.
  • Speaker 2
    0:16:57

    Like, do it. I think
  • Speaker 3
    0:16:58

    you need a little more. Yeah. Because Ukraine is gonna I mean, Ukraine is the thing that you really want in the end, I guess, because that’s that’s the thing that’s on the chopping block. You know?
  • Speaker 2
    0:17:09

    Right. Like the idea that it’s the Democrats that would have to negotiate to get us to support our Democratic allies who’ve been invaded by one of our biggest geopolitical foes is insane, which is why I agree they should ask for some other stuff that’s just for them. It’s not the world we grew up in.
  • Speaker 3
    0:17:27

    Yeah. They should ask for some other stuff that’s just for them, like, I don’t know, bring back the child tax credit or, you know, you know, paid leave.
  • Speaker 1
    0:17:37

    Before we go on to Nancy Mason, very quickly, this show is sponsored by Better Help. You know, staying up to date on all the craziness that is today’s American political system can take its toll on your mental health. I know it’s chipped away at mine. And when your mental health suffers and you feel like your brain is getting in the way of the life you want to live, therapy can be a great way to work through your issues. And can empower you to be the best version of yourself.
  • Speaker 1
    0:18:01

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  • Speaker 1
    0:18:23

    That’s betterhelp h e l p dot com slash next level.
  • Speaker 3
    0:18:29

    Therapy is so great. Can I just say this? I just you know, a lot of men out there. We you know, I I’m just I can just speak for experience. I’m sure that women also, you know, sometimes question, the value of therapy or maybe they don’t.
  • Speaker 3
    0:18:42

    I don’t know. But a lot of men out there are stubborn about this. I was. I was like, I shouldn’t do this. I don’t need this.
  • Speaker 3
    0:18:50

    I’m tough. I’ve got a strong brain. No. You have a weak brain. Out there, men, middle age men, go get go get a little help.
  • Speaker 3
    0:18:58

    Spend an hour away from your kids and talk about your problems. I rec I do recommend it. It’s great.
  • Speaker 1
    0:19:04

    That’s one option. The other option is to take everything that bothers you
  • Speaker 3
    0:19:08

    Yeah.
  • Speaker 1
    0:19:09

    And that you struggle with and just push it down. Over and over hour after hour, day after day, year after year. That is another option that some people choose. It works fine for them.
  • Speaker 2
    0:19:19

    Yeah. You know what I do for my mental health Well, this is me next week. I don’t well, I was gonna say skip the triad because, yeah, I didn’t need therapy until JBL started just telling me the darkness. I used to have, like, a good positive outlook, and now I just think everything’s terrible and, put me in therapy. And you know what?
  • Speaker 2
    0:19:37

    I’m getting you back for YouTube on the Secret Podcast. You said that I wasn’t your best friend anymore.
  • Speaker 1
    0:19:41

    I didn’t say that really.
  • Speaker 2
    0:19:44

    I I I You said you were in the market for him. I said
  • Speaker 1
    0:19:46

    a lot of things.
  • Speaker 2
    0:19:47

    You gave it to Tim.
  • Speaker 1
    0:19:48

    I said a lot of things.
  • Speaker 3
    0:19:49

    I didn’t have a lot of best friends as problem a month. I’m pretty popular.
  • Speaker 2
    0:19:53

    You’re the worst.
  • Speaker 3
    0:19:54

    I’m not like in the market for an additional one.
  • Speaker 1
    0:19:57

    Alright. Talk to me about Nancy Mace. Sarah Longwell had a nice long conversation about Nancy Mace in the, in the secret show.
  • Speaker 3
    0:20:03

    I heard.
  • Speaker 1
    0:20:04

    What were your thoughts, type of thing?
  • Speaker 3
    0:20:05

    Jake, I’m gonna I’m gonna butcher his last name. So I’m sorry. Jake Jake Lahut, Lahut, over at the Daily Beast caught a little tip that really just like, the shingles fell from my eyes when I so when I when I heard this tip. And it was like, because I was like, what is Nancy Mae’s doing Like, this this woman, it was a, was, like, positioned herself as a moderate and, like, a truth owner, and she, like, picked the, He’s the most random reasons to go against Kevin McCarthy. It’s like he’s not nice enough to women, so I’m gonna endorse Jim Jordan.
  • Speaker 3
    0:20:39

    He doesn’t care enough about sexual assault. So I’m gonna endorse Jim Jordan who covered up sexual assault.
  • Speaker 2
    0:20:44

    Like, yeah,
  • Speaker 3
    0:20:45

    I’m gonna wear this a shirt that is rather revealing. And like, I’m like, what is what is this person doing is she had a mental break. And then Jake’s tip came to me. She thinks she can be Trump’s VP. And here’s the thing, everybody said that this was crazy.
  • Speaker 3
    0:21:01

    Trump endorsed her opponent. She she she she opposed him and spoke out against him. He wants somebody that’s loyal, doesn’t want another Mike Pence. All that stuff makes sense. But, she looks the part.
  • Speaker 3
    0:21:11

    Donald Trump likes to cast. And, and I, you know, I was watching a leaf sta leaf stefana give her nominations feature, Jim Jordan, and I just don’t know if that’s the person he’s gonna cast. That’s just that’s just me projecting onto Donald Trump that says nothing about at least Definaco, I think, is very ugly on the inside, and I’m not commenting at all about her outside looks. But she just the VP, does she have the VP look? Christie Nome was out there.
  • Speaker 3
    0:21:35

    People were mentioning her. Okay. But, you know, the Corey Lewandowski thing is pretty big mark against I mean, I mean, Donald Trump has to, like, really disrespect Corey Lewandowski, and he’s gotta think that anybody that had an affair with Corey Lewandowski, that So that I you know, just getting inside Trump Brain, like, this is how he thinks. The list is kinda short of women. I guess he could go to other men.
  • Speaker 3
    0:21:57

    I’m NTG and Carrie Lake. It’s just Maybe, but, like, does he worry they overshadow him? Are they a little too crazy? I mean, he he did make a realpolitik decision in in Mike Pence you know, someone that brought a little bit of balance. I don’t know.
  • Speaker 3
    0:22:12

    All of a sudden, I started thinking it. And I was like, I don’t think it’s crazy that Nancy Mace thinks she might be his VP pick. Actually. I’m not predicting that’s gonna be her, but I think that that’s a rational it it took her actions over the last few months from totally irrational and random. Like, why is her and Matt Gates?
  • Speaker 3
    0:22:29

    Like, on the Secret Podcast? Like, like, what is happening? It it went from totally irrational to, like, I don’t know that you’re gonna get it, but this I think makes sense. I think that I think it’s a rational calculation that she could be could
  • Speaker 1
    0:22:41

    even be the next missus Trump.
  • Speaker 2
    0:22:43

    Of the other things we know Trump likes is to make people bend the knee. Right? He actually it’s it’s an asset to him when somebody has criticized him in the past. It is not a liability. Because what he likes to demonstrate is, oh, did you hate me?
  • Speaker 2
    0:22:57

    Did you say the things? And now you love me? That is he meets he needs a stand at what? What are you what is it? Are you doing with your face?
  • Speaker 1
    0:23:05

    There are a lot of metaphors.
  • Speaker 3
    0:23:06

    I’m so sorry. I don’t know about that lady.
  • Speaker 1
    0:23:09

    Back off of that particular metaphor at this moment.
  • Speaker 2
    0:23:12

    I hate you guys. It is like, I can’t even just like talk like a normal human without being Like being with, like, ten year olds.
  • Speaker 3
    0:23:21

    I’m sorry. I’m sorry. I’m sorry. It’s Tim’s fault.
  • Speaker 2
    0:23:24

    Weren’t even on the Secret Podcast. You should have seen JBL’s eyebrows, what we talked about Nancy based. He’s doing he’s doing this face right now. It’s very interesting.
  • Speaker 3
    0:23:33

    You interrupted you. You’re you’re pointing out that Trump likes it when people.
  • Speaker 2
    0:23:38

    Yeah. I was just saying that I don’t think it’s at all disqualifying that at one point, she hated him. I think what he wants to demonstrate to other people is that, oh, no. People who hated me now like me, you may hate me, but you too could like me. If you just got to know me.
  • Speaker 2
    0:23:51

    Look at Nancy Mace will be here to validate that.
  • Speaker 1
    0:23:54

    Yeah. I think that if we were to take this idea seriously for five seconds, I think he would ultimately decide that she is too much of a lightweight. She looks the part,
  • Speaker 3
    0:24:06

    but It’s so weird getting trying to get inside Trump’s head. Like, the ultimate trump’s like, oh, she’s a lightweight now.
  • Speaker 1
    0:24:13

    No. Right. And I think he would he would think, like, no. Actually, my Amorous. My my VP should carry herself like Nikki Haley, but would have to be loyal.
  • Speaker 1
    0:24:25

    Like, you know, this is like the Carrie Lake. Carrie Lake would have been perfect. Had she won her Senate seat, right, or the governor’s race.
  • Speaker 3
    0:24:32

    That’s a shame.
  • Speaker 1
    0:24:33

    Okay. Yeah.
  • Speaker 2
    0:24:34

    I I
  • Speaker 3
    0:24:35

    I’m taking it seriously. I’m monitoring it. That’s all I’m saying.
  • Speaker 1
    0:24:37

    I’m
  • Speaker 3
    0:24:37

    just putting it on the radar.
  • Speaker 1
    0:24:39

    You take it seriously.
  • Speaker 2
    0:24:42

    I think Tim’s point is well taken that not not that Trump would choose her, but that it is a that somebody put it in her ear and the idea in her mind and that that now explains her behavior. And that that makes sense to me.
  • Speaker 3
    0:24:54

    I hate having to say this on the TDS podcast because everybody knows that we think this, but just to be explicit about it, While it’s a rational calculation, if you want to beat Trump’s VP, it is fundamentally irrational to want to be Trump’s VP given that the last person he tried to have hanged.
  • Speaker 2
    0:25:11

    Right.
  • Speaker 3
    0:25:11

    So Yeah. Well, that’s a little I mean, it’s a little This time it’ll be just a little odd. This talent
  • Speaker 2
    0:25:16

    this talent
  • Speaker 1
    0:25:16

    will be different. The leopards will not want to eat her face at any point. It’ll be okay. Joe Biden is in Israel. Right now as we are taping.
  • Speaker 1
    0:25:28

    I tweeted there’s a Maris poll this week, the end of the week. Do you see this, Sarah? Probably not. I wrote about it, so you wouldn’t have seen it showing that two thirds of the country, sixty fives, six percent of Americans think it’s very important for America to be publicly supporting Israel in this moment. And a majority of the country thinks that Joe Biden is doing a very bad job handling Israel.
  • Speaker 1
    0:25:53

    Now in Israel, there are billboards all over the country saying things like thank you president Biden. The Israelis are, you know, We have testimony in the Sunday show with, with your buddy’s name is escaping me.
  • Speaker 3
    0:26:06

    Blake Clayton.
  • Speaker 1
    0:26:07

    Who is over there right now. He was talking about you know, watching the Biden speech with his friends and how moved they were by it. But Americans are not, you know, the American voters look at this this Biden stuff, and they’re very Yeah. I don’t know. Could do better.
  • Speaker 1
    0:26:21

    I can’t wait till you focus group this, Sarah Longwell I can’t wait to hear what the swing voters are saying about Biden on issue.
  • Speaker 3
    0:26:27

    Have you all ready? Do you have anything for us on there?
  • Speaker 2
    0:26:30

    We did ask a group the other day, and you are not gonna love this. It was swing voters. But only one person had heard Biden’s speech and zero people had heard about Trump’s comments around Hezbollah. So Trump called Hezbollah smart. Nobody knew that.
  • Speaker 2
    0:26:46

    Nobody’d heard anything about that. And then, yeah, they just only one person had heard anything about Biden’s speech.
  • Speaker 1
    0:26:52

    And Biden gave The most historic speech concerning the US Israeli relationship by any American president, possibly ever. And nobody okay. Do they have thoughts about Biden’s handling of the situation?
  • Speaker 2
    0:27:07

    I would say the biggest problem is that part of what’s happened because of the discussion around Ukraine, people have, like, the real America first live, like, internalized a lot of that. So, actually, what you get are a bunch of comments about, like, we don’t wanna get into any war, and, like, we need to take care of things here before we do anything else. So I would say that tends to be where people are on it. Awesome.
  • Speaker 3
    0:27:32

    That’s frustrating. It’s a little frustrating.
  • Speaker 1
    0:27:35

    Awesome. He
  • Speaker 3
    0:27:35

    is doing a really good job. He’s doing everything that you’d want him to do going over there. His speech was fantastic. And we talked about that a little bit last week. And the polling is unbinding is bad, but it’s it’s pretty encouraging, actually, on the just the conflict in general.
  • Speaker 3
    0:27:52

    Like, there’s not you know, if you look at I forgot which what it was, but, this isn’t really an apples to apples comparison, but but just just as a baseline, you know, if you look at, who Dolas is Quinnipiac, you know, the Republican party is like straight split on Ukraine. Like, it’s a good half of the Republican Party, a straight half. It’s like, we should we should just kinda let Russia take them over, basically. And that is not true when the Democratic side on the Israel conflict. Like, there is a divide on the Israel on the democratic side, but it’s much more like sixty, fifteen.
  • Speaker 3
    0:28:25

    Like, you know, there’s a loud vocal minority. That, you know, once whatever it would be deescalation. At this point, while there’s still hundreds of hostages out there. So that part is encouraging Biden has been good, but translating it. I guess not.
  • Speaker 3
    0:28:41

    I don’t know. I guess it’s not on TikTok. I I I do think the media has done a pretty horrific job of covering Trump on this stuff. Like, Trump’s comment. It’s not as if they they weren’t covered.
  • Speaker 3
    0:28:49

    People did cover his comments, but, like, if Joe Biden had said that, You know, you it would have been mass hysteria on every Bulwark, and and that isn’t the case for Trump anymore, and and that’s frustrating.
  • Speaker 1
    0:29:01

    Can I point out that one of the criticisms we hear all the time of Biden is that he is just being led by the nose of the radical left? And And here, again, the, you know, the the radical left to the extent that exists in America is quite separate from the main body of the democratic party. And Joe Biden has publicly rebuked them and is doing like, he’s no credit from anybody for doing and I don’t understand it.
  • Speaker 3
    0:29:29

    I don’t get a credit from Jews.
  • Speaker 2
    0:29:31

    Yeah. I think that’s right.
  • Speaker 1
    0:29:33

    I hope so.
  • Speaker 2
    0:29:33

    An Israelis. I I mean, I think this is where the fractured media environment, like, if you are on the right, center right, the only thing you’re hearing about I mean, is what any lunatic on a college campus is saying? And you’re not hearing a lot about Biden. It’s like In a different world, in a world of twenty years ago, like, even on Fox News, there would be a bunch of commenters being like, this is good. Like Joe Biden is saying the right thing.
  • Speaker 2
    0:30:03

    But today, they just ignore what Biden says, and they just talk about, like, they find whatever whatever the crazy people are saying. Yes.
  • Speaker 1
    0:30:11

    So long as there’s somebody on a college campus or TikTok or Twitter or something.
  • Speaker 2
    0:30:16

    I don’t think it’s just college campuses. I don’t wanna, like, I think there’s
  • Speaker 1
    0:30:20

    But the point, I’m I’m not saying that there there isn’t. Like, this is a substantial thing, but this is a case where Biden is trying to get the Democratic party right on this stuff.
  • Speaker 2
    0:30:28

    Yeah.
  • Speaker 3
    0:30:28

    Yeah. This is my not my party this week. It’s like whatever your opinions are about all the stuff. It’s just like, if if you are of the view that where the squad is on this is extreme, Like, that’s still the squad, and it’s still college campuses. And over in the Republican party, like they’re looking at two, you know, two hundred members of the house wanted Jim Jordan to be the speaker.
  • Speaker 3
    0:30:49

    And and and Donald Trump is winning overwhelmingly in the primary. So it’s not to say that there aren’t, like, some crazy people, you know, in every party. It’s just, like, in one party, it’s the people who are in charge that are the fucking crazy ones. And and that’s that’s notable. The other thing is, like, my friend Tom Nichols might get mad at me, but I’ve got a little I just got a little comment about this.
  • Speaker 3
    0:31:08

    I wanna bring up. Like, the expertise side of this stuff where, you know, there’s folks that get upset. Like, I I’m like Sarah. I don’t I’m not doing TV on this. Like, I I know my limitations on all the stuff.
  • Speaker 3
    0:31:20

    I’m trying to just get book interviews with people who know more about me where I I ask and learn more about them. But I have to have a little bit of skepticism about the experts on this because if you look at the Trump at foreign policy, The one thing that all the experts said were good were the Abraham accords. And I didn’t really have strong views on them. Like, I I think I literally wrote in my book one line that was like, Maybe they were good. I don’t know.
  • Speaker 3
    0:31:43

    Like, they seemed fine to me, but I I don’t know. I’m not an expert. This is where all the experts are. But the more I listen to smart people on these podcasts, and read smart stuff about this. Like, it seems like that again, I I’m not blaming the Trump administration of the folks that were for this, but like the unintended consequences of that of that.
  • Speaker 3
    0:32:02

    Like, led to this kind of. Right? Like, there are concerns among, from Hamas in Iran that the Arab worlds, you know, whatever you wanna call it, normalization with Israel was like changing the balance of power. Right? And that had to be shaken up.
  • Speaker 3
    0:32:17

    Now there are a million, like, there are a million core reasons for why this stuff happens, but I I just what you’re not seeing out there, like, on the left, there are all these recriminations about like, oh, should we’ve done this? Should we’ve done that? Did it usually do this? Like that does not happen with the Trump world? Like, I look I look at this thing and I was like, if we’re if we’re just running demagogic anti Secret Podcast.
  • Speaker 3
    0:32:37

    Like, we could do, like, the Abraham records kind of caused this and, oh, by the way, if you’re a big fan of building walls, I don’t know. The Israeli border with Gaza is pretty small and and had a pretty thick wall with pretty good security and that they’d spent a lot of money on it and and done everything. And, like, Didn’t see that didn’t seem to work. Right? So, our all our Mexico border thing.
  • Speaker 3
    0:32:59

    So, like, there would be ways to to demagogue the where where the trump folks are on all the stuff, but, like, there there’s no seriousness. Like, there’s no there’s no reflection on and and like they get this. This goes back to the asymmetry. They get this where like center left experts, like, gave Trump credit on this. And, like, that never happens the other way.
  • Speaker 3
    0:33:19

    Like, that never happens. Yep. There’s no MAGA world people that are like, Joe Bine’s doing good right now. You know, and, like, center left people gave total credit on this thing that, like, actually, might not have ended up being that good. You know, like, less out of worked out unintended consequences, good intentions and all that, but, like, Here we
  • Speaker 1
    0:33:34

    go. Everybody in the center left and and the left and Democrats gave operation warp speed. One of the few good things that came from the Trump administration, lots of credit. Right? It says there is no version of that.
  • Speaker 1
    0:33:45

    There is there is no, like, you know, serious Republican person who goes, actually, the inflation reduction act, has turned out to be a pretty good policy. Actually, the infrastructure bill has turned out to be very helpful. There there there is that that doesn’t exist. I mean,
  • Speaker 3
    0:34:02

    anti trump people, like Jay Pod wrote a good thing about Biden’s speech in commentary. Right? But, like, he’s he’s Trump. But, like, nobody from the actual naga world. From Trump world.
  • Speaker 2
    0:34:11

    So one of the things when Trump did that speech, the insane speech recalled hezbollah smart and, like, kinda ranted about Netanyahu, which I got no love for Netanyahu, but I did think, like, it was, like, Trump was, like, weirdly blaming him for like the like, I was just like, what are you even talking about? It did seem like he got some angry phone calls because he definitely started to walk that back Instead of doubling down, he’s he kinda recommitted to the pro Israel thing. Do you think this any of the Hezbollah smart, any of that stuff hurts trump at all?
  • Speaker 3
    0:34:44

    No. I do think he got angry pushback. He’s got some big donors who are and and big supporters and all that. And I do think he got angry pushback and and he sent out a bleach that was like, I love b b hashtag. I got, you know, and he has all the subtlety of like a sledgehammer.
  • Speaker 3
    0:34:58

    And I do think he gets private pushback. And, like, I think he responds. I do a lot, you know, Maggie, this is all Maggie’s porting always. Like, it’s like, he’ll do whatever the last phone call he got. Like, you know, he’ll send something out if one of his Tom Barrett calls him and tells him he should have done this instead.
  • Speaker 3
    0:35:11

    Right? So but but not publicly. Yeah. And not with voters.
  • Speaker 1
    0:35:15

    Meanwhile, just
  • Speaker 3
    0:35:16

    just really quick before you get to that transition, I just wanna read the recent Nancy May’s tweet that Sebastian sent.
  • Speaker 1
    0:35:20

    Sure.
  • Speaker 3
    0:35:21

    Hearing the establishment is desperately trying to tank Jim Jordan. I’m so tired of the establishment dictating what goes on in this town. It’s time the people have a voice. It’s time the people have representation that isn’t dictated by a few Power, hungry players.
  • Speaker 2
    0:35:39

    It’s a pot call in the kettle Bulwark right there.
  • Speaker 3
    0:35:42

    Sounds like, Maga VP tweet to me, just sand anyway.
  • Speaker 1
    0:35:46

    Wouldn’t the Nancy Mae thing all just be more explicable if it turned out like, oh, she really has developed a taste for edibles. Right? Then you’d be like, oh, yeah. Okay. Now it all makes sense.
  • Speaker 2
    0:35:57

    I don’t think you’ve done much with edibles, JBL. I think you’re a lack of
  • Speaker 1
    0:36:01

    I don’t know. I don’t know how how that how that stuff affects people.
  • Speaker 2
    0:36:04

    You just stop tweeting and go to sleep, dude.
  • Speaker 1
    0:36:10

    Okay. Meanwhile, we have a DeSantis Haley war, which has broken out. This is amazing to Ron DeSantis Super PAC put out an attack ad on Nikki Haley. Here is the line of Haley’s that they take and they, you know, they put them through the the dark filter with, you know, can you believe what Nikki Haley is saying? Nikki Haley says.
  • Speaker 1
    0:36:32

    America’s always been sympathetic to the fact that you can separate civilians from terrorists. That is the line, which the descent just kept using. Is that
  • Speaker 3
    0:36:40

    what? Is there more?
  • Speaker 1
    0:36:41

    No. That’s it. That’s that’s what she said.
  • Speaker 3
    0:36:43

    Because you reread it one more time.
  • Speaker 1
    0:36:45

    One more time. So you have Ron DeSantis. The ad is Rhonda Sant just talking about how, you know, he is never gonna let refugees from Gaza in the United States. Never. And then they give Nikki Haley, and Nikki Haley says America’s always been sympathetic to the fact that you can separate civilians from terrorists.
  • Speaker 1
    0:37:04

    And then Rhonda Sanchez comes back on and says, yeah, that’s right. She’s just trying to to kiss up to the the liberal media and be political correct. And I don’t care about that. I’ll tell you the total number of refugees from Gaza you’re gonna see in America is zero. And, you know, if I were to say, Republican voters think that you can’t separate civilians from terrorists and they really just wanna see all the brown people killed.
  • Speaker 1
    0:37:28

    You would say, oh JBL. There you are being, you know, calling these people racist, etcetera, etcetera. I would submit to you. Nobody has a lower opinion of Republican voters. Than Ron DeSantis because he thinks this is what they want to hear.
  • Speaker 1
    0:37:44

    It’s wild. It’s one of the wildest ads I’ve ever seen.
  • Speaker 2
    0:37:47

    I think that, the main takeaway from that is that Ron DeSantis is now fighting for a second place with Nikki Haley. And that he knows it. And I don’t know if you’ve seen the donors are starting to demand consolidation, right, because people are panicked that nobody’s getting anywhere near Trump. And so the one thing they have some control over, right, is that they can start pulling the plug on other campaigns. And so you got Tim Scott’s pack, coming out and saying they’re gonna, you know, they’re gonna kinda fold it up, which does that mean Tim Scott’s gonna drop out the fact that his pack is gonna stop spending money.
  • Speaker 2
    0:38:22

    Like, I I assume that’s what it means. So, like, now they’re in a fight over, like, who needs to drop out? Because who’s gonna be the other who’s gonna be the one alternative to Trump as the consolidation happens? So my guess is is you start seeing Scott and Pence, the donors start saying like, get out. And maybe even Christie.
  • Speaker 2
    0:38:40

    And so Nikki Haley and DeSantis are now in this this fight for second place. I’m sorry. So, and DeSantis is making the argument that if Nikki drops out, her votes come to him. If DeSantis drops out, his votes go to trump, and that’s why he needs to be the alternative. And that’s interesting, and probably a little bit true.
  • Speaker 2
    0:39:01

    But I do think that the donors have taken, like, a real second look. Like Nicki’s arguing she’s the only one with momentum. Forward momentum. Also probably true. Well,
  • Speaker 3
    0:39:11

    there is a problem with I mean, I guess, let’s just say it’s true. Let’s just say it’s true. I’m not sure it’s true. Let’s just say this. K.
  • Speaker 3
    0:39:19

    So thirteen plus seven point seven. I get you to twenty point. Like, Okay. So I I consolidation is not the problem. Alright.
  • Speaker 3
    0:39:28

    Like, this was a this was a conversation for twenty twenty two. In early twenty twenty three. When all of us rightly, we’re saying these so many people shouldn’t get in this race. Yep. You know what I mean?
  • Speaker 3
    0:39:39

    But, like, and and I, Sarah, you even more so than me, on that front. You know, I thought this was important. But, like, we’re here where we are now. Like, Trump is above fifty. Like, the problem is get eating out of Trump.
  • Speaker 3
    0:39:51

    It’s like fighting amongst themselves, and it’s just twenty sixteen reducts, and I just like, on the substance of all this, again, it’s like DeSantis doing the same shit he did when he started this thing. I I will say I Ron DeSantis is plane flight from Israel. Thing this week. Yeah. Like, to me, like, that was the kind of thing that DeSantis needed to be doing early to be like, look, Trump is obsessed with himself.
  • Speaker 3
    0:40:12

    He’s bleeding. Like, I’m gonna be I’m a problem solver. I’m gonna own the libs Joe Biden’s tool. Like, regardless of what the merits of all this are true. I’m just just speaking from a political standpoint.
  • Speaker 3
    0:40:21

    Like Joe Biden’s too old to save the Americans over there. I’m gonna send air to Santa San and bring people out. Like, trump’s bleeding about himself. Right? Like, here, like, this, that was a good trust for him.
  • Speaker 1
    0:40:31

    He could’ve put some, some Mexican refugees on the plane over. Back. And then dropped them in Israel and then brought real Florida patriots back.
  • Speaker 3
    0:40:40

    That would have
  • Speaker 1
    0:40:41

    been a twofer.
  • Speaker 3
    0:40:42

    That would have been a twofer. And that would have been good. So, like, that’s a real contrast. This stuff Like, trying to sound like Trump on the Muslim ban and getting to Nick and attacking Nikki from this. It’s just like, here’s what he said, the Biden campaign put this out.
  • Speaker 3
    0:40:55

    He said this on Fox. About Nikki. When it comes to bringing refugees from Gaza, you’re bringing in the culture that they’re coming from. Just like really I mean, these kids who pour little babies that are like are, you know, need a place to live. Like, what the culture you’re bringing in?
  • Speaker 3
    0:41:09

    What? What are you talking about? Like, you think that they’re gonna be terrorists? This is an argument by the way for Georgia building a wall on its southern border to prevent panhandle Florida for bringing its culture to Atlanta I I these these fucking people, like, it is it is old school, Charles Lindbergh, Nativist, horrific nonsense, and he’s advancing it, because he thinks it’s gonna help him get to Trump’s right. You can’t get to trump’s right on this can’t get to Trump’s right.
  • Speaker 3
    0:41:38

    Trump was the guy that said no Muslims allowed.
  • Speaker 2
    0:41:41

    Also, sometimes I just wanna be like, do you guys know we live in America? Like, do you do you guess people bring their cultures with them? That’s why we’ve got every kind of food that’s here. That’s why we’ve got, like, we let a bunch of religions worship, like, this is what we do here. It’s called pluralism.
  • Speaker 2
    0:41:57

    And the it’s all in our money. It’s all in our money out of many one that they people bring their cultures here. I don’t know how Ron DeSantis Ron DeSantis. Meatball. What do we say?
  • Speaker 2
    0:42:09

    That’s probably Ron DeSantis. Nice Italian.
  • Speaker 3
    0:42:12

    Like See how you assimilated. You even changed how pronounce your name. I got that’s the the the the same thing will happen with the Gaza refugees.
  • Speaker 2
    0:42:20

    I don’t like to swear too much on these podcasts, but f that guy.
  • Speaker 3
    0:42:24

    F that guy. My street has Vietnamese, Japanese pizza. It’s a wonderful street.
  • Speaker 1
    0:42:29

    I I would like to put a little context in here right now. So we we we are talking about how Nikki Haley is surging. Right? This is the general the general view is that Nikki Haley is surging.
  • Speaker 2
    0:42:40

    I didn’t say I didn’t say surging. I said she has momentum too.
  • Speaker 1
    0:42:43

    Okay. So she deal with some of
  • Speaker 3
    0:42:45

    the circus last week. She every, like, you know, because you need that media needs to have something to do. And so I love the circus guys, but they kept being like, okay, And you can really feel it. And I was like, can you feel it? I was like, in every clip, I’m like, are we sure?
  • Speaker 3
    0:42:59

    Is there something happening?
  • Speaker 1
    0:43:01

    So Nikki is at seven point seven points. Okay? Which is great. Good for her. Since April sixth, Trump is up eight points.
  • Speaker 1
    0:43:13

    So Donald Trump has added more to his total since April than Nikki’s entire number. Do you see what I’m saying? Like, it isn’t just like, well, she’s sort of do you know who’s really searching actually when you look at the race, you look at just look at the lines going up? Don’t know how Trump is surging. Donald Trump is near his high watermark right now for the entire campaign.
  • Speaker 1
    0:43:35

    He’s at fifty eight percent. He’s closing in on sixty. He’s closing in on sixty. It’s almost November. Right?
  • Speaker 1
    0:43:42

    You know, we we’re we’re what? Fourteen weeks away from Iowa?
  • Speaker 3
    0:43:45

    Sure. Ron DeSantis Haley slap final resolve That’ll change things up. Change up the dynamic.
  • Speaker 1
    0:43:50

    The person who is actually surging and who has the momentum is Trump He is much stronger than he was, even as recently as July. He’s up eight points from July or six points from July.
  • Speaker 3
    0:44:03

    It You
  • Speaker 2
    0:44:03

    know, I think that one of the things that is clear, does Santa’s, like, I’m not sure that his campaign that this, like, this stunt. I I hear you, Tim, that, like, he should’ve been doing this stuff all along. Like, they never figured out how to run against Trump. Even though they had all this time, I think they just thought people were gonna wanna move on. They were just gonna fall into Ron DeSantis lap.
  • Speaker 2
    0:44:24

    But Trump is running an extremely good and extremely smart campaign. And Susie Wiles and Chris La Savita are real pros who I have I have like real doubts about the or their insides, like the moral parts of their insides that they could work with Donald Trump. But actually, just since since the theme of this show I think is is how if you put something in context, suddenly, sometimes people’s actions make sense, Susie Wiles must hate Ron DeSantis so much. She worked for Ron DeSantis, and they kinda dropped her like a bad habit at one point. Then they kinda tried to end her.
  • Speaker 2
    0:45:05

    Like, they were mad at her. Kinda tried to, you know, shit on her. And now she’s like, you know what I’m gonna do? Not just gonna beat you. I’m gonna crush you.
  • Speaker 2
    0:45:14

    I’m gonna end your political career. And they’re out there with Trump like if you look back now, like, when DeSantis came to DC to try to get some congressional endorsements, and that day, while he was up here, they released all of the Florida delegates supporting Trump.
  • Speaker 3
    0:45:30

    Yeah.
  • Speaker 2
    0:45:31

    And the way that they are behind the scenes, making sure that the rules, just the regular rules in the state, like, it’s making it really hard for somebody else to to come after him. Like, they are ten steps ahead of DeSantis and of the donors. And, like, They’re just real pros. The
  • Speaker 3
    0:45:48

    donors aren’t even in the game,
  • Speaker 2
    0:45:49

    actually. Yeah.
  • Speaker 3
    0:45:50

    They’re not.
  • Speaker 2
    0:45:50

    It’s like they’re just playing a bunch of fantasy stuff.
  • Speaker 3
    0:45:52

    Forgeting ten steps ahead, you know. Like, the donors are on the sidelines playing shuffleboard. Yeah. Well, you know, if
  • Speaker 1
    0:45:58

    we could move Mike Pence out and his two point one points, then go to the alternative. And
  • Speaker 3
    0:46:04

    I don’t know.
  • Speaker 1
    0:46:04

    And all these people are gonna Chris Christie
  • Speaker 3
    0:46:05

    is mad at me, apparently.
  • Speaker 1
    0:46:07

    Why are
  • Speaker 3
    0:46:08

    you saying this? I’ve I did an interview with a local New Jersey paper where I brought up the fact that Chris Christie is out there saying that he’s helping that that he’s here to stop Trump, and he’s actually helping trump, and he’s helping trump in his ego. And he needs to get out. If you wanted to actually help trump because he’s no chance of winning and, give this interview to the New Jersey paper. You can re you can see it.
  • Speaker 3
    0:46:28

    You can go there if you want. And, the guy’s like, Christie yelled at me, and he’s like, that Tim Miller. That Tim Miller isn’t doesn’t know he’s an idiot. He’s a moron, point pointing his stubby little finger at him. I was like, sorry, bro.
  • Speaker 3
    0:46:43

    Like, these guys, like, don’t, like, none of them are none of them are doing anything. None of them are actually doing except making themselves feel good.
  • Speaker 2
    0:46:49

    I think you’re overly hard on Christie because I think he’s been, like, about his I think he’s been the best of the whole bunch in terms of, you know, saying true things about Trump here. And That being said, Christie’s whole, I think pitch really was like he’s gonna get on stage with Trump, right? And he’s gonna cut him down. He’s not getting on stage with Trump. Like, that’s just clear.
  • Speaker 2
    0:47:12

    And so I do think these guys gotta start getting out. I just Could
  • Speaker 3
    0:47:16

    be better served to stand outside Mar a Lago? And shout at him. Yeah. You pussy. Get out here.
  • Speaker 3
    0:47:23

    If you’re a real man, you get out here with a Bulwark, that’d be his best. That’s his best play. Point. I’ll I’ll apologize for to everything if Chris Christie gets out there and does that.
  • Speaker 1
    0:47:32

    Okay. Taylor Swift. Tim, you wanna have this fight. I’m I’m all fighting.
  • Speaker 3
    0:47:36

    It’s it’s not really a fight. It’s not really a fight. It’s just, it’s fine. If you if people like Taylor swift, that’s fine. I’m totally with you on the entrepreneurial spirit.
  • Speaker 3
    0:47:43

    I’m just saying, men are bad. I get that. Straight men are horrible. Like, ally total ally ship on this. Straight men being horrible.
  • Speaker 3
    0:47:52

    But, like, If you have had eighteen boyfriends, and they’re all famous, and at the end of every relationship you write a song about how they’re terrible. Maybe the problem is maybe the problem wasn’t the eighteen boyfriends. Maybe, or maybe maybe you just maybe you picked eighteen really terrible people. That’s all that’s all I’m saying. I just I’m a little bit confused about the girl power element of this.
  • Speaker 3
    0:48:11

    I get the girl power element of the of the entrepreneurship and saying f u to what’s his name to try steal her masters and like the fact that she’s getting rich and I I love that and the pro economy stuff and that’s all great. But like I don’t know. I was watching an interview with Donna Kelsey. Savannah Dothridge was doing this inter interview. And, Savannah was like, must have must be nice to have gotten to hang out with Taylor.
  • Speaker 3
    0:48:37

    And Donna goes, and I was like, Donna gets it. Donna gets it.
  • Speaker 1
    0:48:44

    I mean, I She’s fine. She’s probably
  • Speaker 3
    0:48:46

    fine. She’s probably fine, but, like, I don’t know. That’s all I’m saying. That’s all I’m saying. I everybody can do what they want.
  • Speaker 3
    0:48:52

    I’m happy. If you wanna just, life short, if you wanna use your one Life, making out with every celebrity in the world and writing a song about how they’re terrible. That’s a way to live a life. That’s a choice, but I just I’m a little bit confused about the about the girl power side of it.
  • Speaker 1
    0:49:07

    Why do you think it’s all real? I just assume it’s all k Fabe, and it’s, it’s like a giant
  • Speaker 3
    0:49:12

    It’s all safe.
  • Speaker 1
    0:49:13

    For her, which is, again, awesome. I’m I’m there for it. I love pro wrestling. I watch pro wrestling. I’m happy to be there for, you know, a work or a shoot.
  • Speaker 3
    0:49:23

    I tend to be happy. Just wanna I just I just wanted to be satisfied.
  • Speaker 2
    0:49:26

    I can tell you take care of it.
  • Speaker 3
    0:49:27

    I want her to be happy. That’s all.
  • Speaker 2
    0:49:28

    I don’t care about any of this, but it does sound to me like there’s a little bit of shaming on your part for Taylor. Like, let her have all the let her she’s a big celebrity. There’s every dude who, has ever, you know, had a decent a charting song, dates a gazillion women. So she’s a serial monogamous. God bless her.
  • Speaker 2
    0:49:50

    I that first of
  • Speaker 1
    0:49:51

    all, I
  • Speaker 2
    0:49:53

    do not care about Taylor Swift. I do not care about Taylor Swift. I do not care about any of this. I can’t believe that you guys invest in the psychology of these people. Like, she has some good music.
  • Speaker 2
    0:50:03

    And yeah, if she’s
  • Speaker 1
    0:50:04

    got some good music and she’s the ultimate girl boss. What’s not to love? This is like your sweet spot. I’m not ashamed.
  • Speaker 3
    0:50:10

    I again, like I say, I think everything I think it’d be fine. I just You know, I I don’t know. There’s the there the whole vibe I just don’t I’m not vibing on. The music is just okay for me, and the story of, like, every album is, like, why my last boyfriend is terrible. Okay.
  • Speaker 3
    0:50:27

    I guess. That’s fine. Maybe it’s k fave. I don’t know. I just wanted to be happy.
  • Speaker 3
    0:50:30

    That’s all. Can I I just think that, like, a real happy girl boss story would be, I overthrew the patriarchy? I got my masters back. I did Taylor’s version. And I’m very happy and satisfied.
  • Speaker 1
    0:50:41

    When you found out that that hacksaw Jim duggan and the Iron Sheik were actually buddies in real life, did it make you not wanna watch wrestling anymore? Because if that didn’t bother me
  • Speaker 2
    0:50:51

    Well, hold on. Well, you’re thinking the wrong comparison. So Tim loves Beyonce.
  • Speaker 3
    0:50:56

    I do.
  • Speaker 2
    0:50:56

    And as best my from what I’m aware of, that lemonade album that she dropped was all about getting cheated on
  • Speaker 3
    0:51:02

    Mhmm.
  • Speaker 2
    0:51:03

    And then like forgiving Jayzy.
  • Speaker 3
    0:51:06

    Yeah. I thought I
  • Speaker 2
    0:51:07

    I don’t I don’t find that to be nearly I don’t I don’t find that to be an empowering story.
  • Speaker 3
    0:51:12

    Well, you know, life is hard and long and, like, you know, she’s got a partner and then got a kid, blue Ivy that comes out on stage, and she seems to have a good life. And I mean, beyond it, it’s nice. I mean, it’s tough. They these people are all living different lives and all the rest of us, you know. So, like, She’s got a lot of
  • Speaker 1
    0:51:26

    Speak for yourself. I guess. My life is a lot like JZ’s.
  • Speaker 3
    0:51:29

    And Beyonce’s. But I but I I hear I hear that. I don’t again, I it’s not a judgment thing. It’s just like And that’s fine if you find that Nikki. It’s just a
  • Speaker 2
    0:51:38

    little I know you seem to be taking, like, the the Beyonce, you know, it should just, like, accept being cheated on and Taylor. You know, can’t date eighteen guys when she breaks up with them.
  • Speaker 3
    0:51:49

    You don’t think beyonce also cheated on JZ. Isn’t she? I don’t know. I don’t care
  • Speaker 2
    0:51:53

    about this. I’m just decided. Side, I’m gonna fight about this. Yeah.
  • Speaker 3
    0:51:55

    Fight about it. Yeah. Okay. I hear you. Again, Taylor Swift,
  • Speaker 1
    0:51:58

    I want readers to do what’s right
  • Speaker 2
    0:52:00

    for them.
  • Speaker 3
    0:52:00

    I’m just saying it seems to me like Beyonce has found has is telling an empowering story. I like that. And and Taylor is telling the story where, like, everybody is terrible to her. And I can be And
  • Speaker 1
    0:52:13

    meanwhile, she’s raking Spotify and bending Apple. She’s killing it. I know. I don’t care. To her will.
  • Speaker 1
    0:52:20

    What’s I don’t know if that’s not inspiring to everybody at every level. Right? Because we are all just cogs in the machine.
  • Speaker 2
    0:52:26

    All of this just means teenagers have too much power. Too much purchasing power. And and, you know, actually, here’s the thing about Taylor Swift, and she’s done this better than Bieber, but it’s these ones, these kids that started so young, Right? Like when you think about the eras tour, you’re like
  • Speaker 3
    0:52:42

    Mhmm.
  • Speaker 2
    0:52:42

    Eras, you’re like thirty three. How do you have errors? And then you realize, like, she released her first, like, hit album at seventeen and like she does have, you know, some time under her belt. And that means that she’s failed. She started
  • Speaker 1
    0:52:54

    her career at thirteen. Mean, she was signed to a development table at thirteen.
  • Speaker 2
    0:52:57

    Yeah. So, like, I’ve I’ve Taylor Swift does feel as young as she is. She’s been around long enough that there’s a generation of teens right now and tweens who can love her and like we in our forties still, like, she was still a soundtrack for us in our twenties.
  • Speaker 1
    0:53:14

    This is one of the things that I found so wonderful about the the eras movie concert is that it is a, like, a mass culture event. Like, she had crossed over and she white culture event. You know, there you get like three. Our colleague, AB Soddard, went with three generations. Of, of women from her family to go see that.
  • Speaker 1
    0:53:36

    That’s great.
  • Speaker 2
    0:53:37

    Her first album came out in two thousand six. Yeah. So I’m twenty six when that happens.
  • Speaker 1
    0:53:41

    Yeah. It’s a it’s mass it’s mass culture. It’s it’s like when Barbie and Oppenheimer, you know, dominated the box office for a month.
  • Speaker 3
    0:53:51

    There were just the It was all it was all parts of American culture. We’re in that theater with you in New Jersey. There were Italians. You know, there are Italian Americans. They were Irish Americans.
  • Speaker 1
    0:54:02

    Yeah. They’re both there.
  • Speaker 3
    0:54:03

    There are Scotts. There are Scotts Irish Americans, probably movie theater.
  • Speaker 1
    0:54:07

    Probably not. There are probably some Polish Polish A handful of Polish Americans.
  • Speaker 3
    0:54:11

    Just all just cut cut across all of American culture.
  • Speaker 1
    0:54:15

    We we have very, very few mass culture events anymore. Right. We’re down to basically, like, the Super Bowl. That’s it. Right?
  • Speaker 1
    0:54:22

    And it’s nice whenever we Sure.
  • Speaker 3
    0:54:24

    Doesn’t even watch that.
  • Speaker 1
    0:54:25

    It’s nice when we
  • Speaker 2
    0:54:26

    have something. The first
  • Speaker 1
    0:54:27

    half in every country. Watches and is into. I like that. I like feeling like we have a mono culture for a minute every once in a while. We don’t need to live in a mono culture.
  • Speaker 1
    0:54:36

    But it’s nice to have monocultural moments.
  • Speaker 2
    0:54:39

    I just wanna say that I don’t think we should have to pick between Beyonce and Taylor. I think they are both icons.
  • Speaker 1
    0:54:47

    One of them is better than the other. Clearly.
  • Speaker 2
    0:54:49

    In both cases, I know enough of their music, which means they’ve permeated the whole I love them both.
  • Speaker 3
    0:54:56

    I love this. This is a this is a perfect ending to the next level podcast, a strong fiance, a strong tailor, and somebody that wants to unite us altogether. That’s kind of that’s the spirit of the show, really. Yeah. They may have They
  • Speaker 2
    0:55:08

    may have together kept us out of a recession.
  • Speaker 3
    0:55:11

    Yeah. I am in no way that the I I wore a Beyonce shirt. One of the days they were filming the circus, and that was the day they cut. Oh. It’s just like, you fucking assholes.
  • Speaker 3
    0:55:19

    I was like, I was representing Team Bay on showtime to the but no. Anyway, so I had to do it right here on the on YouTube and the next Secret Podcast.
  • Speaker 1
    0:55:29

    Good show, long show. Great. Go ahead and subscribe. Talk to us in the comments. Whatever.
  • Speaker 1
    0:55:36

    Do do all the things. We’ll see you on Sunday.
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