It Follows (The Secret Podcast Preview)

Hey there. It’s JBL on the Secret Show with Bill Crystal today. We talked about Joe Biden’s memory and whether or not it’s even possible for Democrats to come up with somebody else at this point, and just how bad and crazy this moment in American history is. I’m I’m just gonna be flat straight with you. It’s not a happy episode.

Here’s the show. Yesterday, and the special counsel’s hotel exoneration of Joe Biden, which is somehow terrible news for Joe Biden because Trump can get indicted, and it makes him stronger. Joe Biden gets exonerated, and it’s a disaster. And I I I feel like I’m living in a world that is totally upside down. And part of the problem is that we have to take all considerations of truth and morality and fairness and set them to the side, which creates cognitive dissonance because you think to yourself, well, hold on.

Wait a minute. I’m sorry. Joe Biden holds a press conference last night. He looks reasonably sharp to me, like, you know, beats up Peter Ducey in a sort of little funny exchange with him, you know, how bad my my memory is so bad that I called on you, you know, And yet we we just have to put that aside. And, you know, he misses makes mixes up what Egypt to Mexico for half a second Trump Trump is just like, you know, doesn’t know who Victor Abaughn is, mixing up Nancy Pelosi and Nikki Haley all this stuff all the time and nobody cares.

So we just we just have it’s the asymmetry. It’s all I ever write about is asymmetry. I guess just, like, tell me what you think of all this.

So, a, I wanna start with thirty seconds of optimism that to the set it is, got closer out of the, the support for Ukraine, Israel, and Taiwan bill. We might end up passing it, I think, next week in the Senate. I think it can get through the house despite the speaker. And I think we may not abandon Ukraine, which really would be just an unbelievable disaster, swamping almost everything every other disaster. Accept losing democracy here in the US, which is even worse, but we’ll get we’ll get to that in a minute.

So I’m that is the one piece for me of really good news is we get a kind of weird reversal. Right? They they gave the Republican the border, the Republicans turned against the border, and then in a way he might end up with a a bill that doesn’t involve include a border stuff, something which is pretty bad, honestly. And, just has a sensible national security support for our allies. Okay.

So that’s a good news Look, I think the asymmetric point is so important. You made it tough before many times, but really, you yourself have speculated on sort of how how deep does it go. You know, and how much of a new moment is this? And I think that for me, this is what we are learning over at Over River. It is when you have an authoritarian movement, And it’s taken over one political party and threatens to and some chuck in the country and threatens to take over the country.

I mean, things are different than they were. Truth is not the normal back and forth of political debate isn’t the normal back and forth. And I I and I was reading a little bit about this in the twenties and thirties and again not to go to the worst cases and so forth, but people sat around thinking this is crazy. This is ludicrous. I mean, I have a rebuttal to this argument in Germany or Italy, or incidentally, the Soviet Union, I mean, it’s not just right, right wing, but left wing, totalitarianism, and authoritarianism, and it didn’t matter.

And I I you do feel that sometimes in the courage. Moment. And nothing is beyond the bounds on the on the third journey in right. Tucker Carlson goes to interview. I mean, not interview goes to have a friendly conversation with Vladimir Putin, and it’s not to parse, I know as a single person who is a buddy of Tucker Carlson criticized him for doing that saying, gee, the guy is kind of a a murderer of his own citizens, his own journalists, a guy who’s imprisoned American, journalist says, has them right now in prison, and, of course, has launched an unbelievably criminal war against Ukraine and other things.

And not a peep, except from, you know, us and Democrats, criticizing Tucker. So did the asymmetry, the total collapse of standards on the right, the collapse of the guardrails, because the guardrails depend on guardians. Or, but but again, the I I kinda feel like we well, kind of feel it. I really do think we’re we’re living through an authoritarian movement that is damaging and corrupting the country. What was your face?

By way back in twenty sixteen, Trump Trumpism corrupt and Trumpism corrupts, corrupts everything it touches. Yeah. And it really is that it you just did the depth of it. This is why we were, of course, an anti trump if I could just say for a second, I mean, people, why are you so never child with? He’s done some good things.

He’s got some issues. You might even agree with him. Liberals aren’t perfect. We were anti child because I do think This, we may have been wrong about a lot of things. This we were right about.

Once you unleash this, it becomes added to is allowed to survive and prosper and take over one of our two major political parties when the presidency now is gonna be nominated for the third time. By that party, it has this huge damage to the country.

Yeah. It’s, you know, we talked a little bit about this. The, the other day. Just the fact of having the same guy nominated three times in a row by a party is so ahistorical for America. Right?

This is you you would expect this in Bolivia. Right? Or you and, you know, and with no signs that he wouldn’t be nominated for a fourth time. Right? You know, if god willing Joe Biden wins this, who is the odds on favorite to be the Trump of the nominee in twenty twenty eight for the Republican Party?

Donald Trump. Okay. Obviously. Right? But I don’t so what is the way to What is the way to encounter this upside down world?

Because my I mean, my working theory all long has been. Well, let’s just do it. I had thought early in the Biden term, that the answer was that Biden should have gone full bore in an attempt to trump proof America as much as possible, meaning he should have turned DC into a state He should have done whatever was necessary, broken the Democratic majorities if necessary to pass HR one, and try to build actual guardrails, more guardrails into the system. Maybe I I guess I’m not four pack in the court, but You know, like, I’ll listen. I’ll listen to back from the court arguments.

And, and Biden chose the sort of, I’m gonna take the temperature down, and we’re gonna turned to normal. We’re gonna govern as if it’s normal. And by doing that, which was, like, the Sarah Longwell, the idea. Right? Was popularism, do popular things, govern well, make bipartisan deals, and bring America back to a normal place.

And that’s what he’s done, and he’s been super successful at it. I think much more successful than anybody could have reasonably suspected. I mean, I I just don’t think anybody could could look at where we are now and have thought, yeah, no. This is, you know, Biden could do could have done all these things. The economy is fantastic.

Right. Which is supposed to be dispositive in American politics. And, you know, Trump Trump is stronger now than he was in either twenty sixteen or twenty twenty. So what do we what what I guess, first of all, what should have been done?

Yeah. I don’t know. I mean, as we don’t, obviously, don’t really get

can’t run, can’t run the counterfactual? Yeah.

I mean, I, I think the downside to what you’re saying is you could end up trying to doing, let’s call them radical things, confidential things to try to trump proof the system. You wouldn’t really trump proof the system anyway because once their movements won won Congress they’d roll some of it back. And once Trump if you want a twenty if it alienating a photo, so Trump would win in twenty twenty four. Of course, he would overcome a lot of these guardrails quite quickly. So that’s the argument I’d say the limitations of of the, more radical approach, not to say that some of those things though selectively done and and explained and, you know, persuasively might have been wise to do.

I do think there’s some case from that. I mean, people treat Roosevelt in thirty seven. The court packing is, what an idiot. I’m crazy, you know, in all this. First of all, kind of worked, the court would famously switch afterwards.

And secondly, he wasn’t like being just a willful guy who won a huge reelection. It was a little all bad, but he he actually was stopping a new deal and he really thought, okay. Maybe I need to go for a more radical solution. He hadn’t started off that way. So I think there’s some truths to what you for arguing for, I think this, you know, I retreat to the the the more build of broad consensus.

I don’t know that he’s done it he’s governed pretty well on policy whereas the administration is governed pretty well on policy. The policies worked out pretty well. But I’m not quite as enthusiastic as you, but no, but but certainly more like a b plus that a c minus, that’s for sure. But I would say two things. If you want the return to normal c, you need to win in twenty twenty four.

Obviously, that always should have been a key factor. And normalcy is not Joe Biden running free election. I hear you and I have just always you think successful winter resident, you become you run for reelection. I think he is too old. He’s evidently too old.

He’s getting older. You got a very good bench. You would make do the hand off. It’s a little complicated and messy, but I think it would succeed to the Whitmer Shapiro generation. And that is returned to normal American politics, not having an eighty two year old.

Now, he gets a seventy seven year old and opens you up so much leading to everything else aside it opens you up so much the third party stuff into people saying we need to generate real change and and peeling off some of the non trump, the anti trump vote. Say nothing about the things. So I guess that’s where I think the the church and normalcy, failed, or at least it’s not as normal as what would like to think that he’s running for reelection in this circumstance plus incumbents or so in fact, if the Kakashi’s got some crazy, was so unhappy about things. Maybe they’ll get persuaded the economies better than they realize, but, you know, maybe they won’t, and it’s just better not having any incumbent running. So these governors who won in the swing states, I think, are the the the normal the really aggressive normal the the the not so normal normal strategy would be find your best find your best governors on the ticket in the key state, best governors from the key states.

And let them defeat trump in twenty twelve work. But at the end of the day, you gotta beat trump in twenty twenty four. I mean, that’s the key and whether it’s Biden or someone else.

Well, here’s the I mean, I I have a couple objections to that, but one has always been that you can’t just put Josh Shapiro and Gretchen Whitmer on the ticket. And that if I so Sarah and I talked about this last last week, and I I’m interested in your take on this. It is one thing to say if we could hop into an alternate timeline where Josh appears the nominee, that would be better. But what are the odds of that? Right?

I mean, realistically, let’s dial it back to twenty twenty two and say Biden gets out. I actually think the there’s, like, a sixty percent chance that the nominee is either Gavin Newsom or Kamala Harris. And do you think either of those are preferable to where we are now

I don’t. I think sixty percent is too high. I think a vigorous primary competition, which one of them won over prevailed over Josh Shapiro and Booter judge and everyone else would be it. Yes. I think that candidate would have ended up stronger than Biden is now.

Okay. And incidentally, I let convince that Harris isn’t stronger, Biden, and I say this is a big Camla Harris doubter. I think all of us who are close to it and realize that, yeah, he’s forgets a few names, but he sees okay. I I think we’re too close to it in this side. In this, in the visual age, in a TV, it’d be in the West TVs, old fashioned, what do you call it?

Video, age of seeing snippets on video. I just worry so much about maybe I’m I hope I’m wrong, incidentally. I hope that, you know, as the campaign progresses, people kinda calm down and they reelect Biden and be assuming Biden’s remains the candidate. No. But I I guess that would be my answer.

My answer is normalcy is a healthy primary contest in which the party, selects someone who’s fifty five years old, and they put together a ticket, and it’s not perfect. But I think that really does beat Trump in a way that I think Biden looks it it it is more harder. That’s just what I thought. My my my my unprovable theory.

Yeah. And what about the again, this is this is weird because it’s talking about fairness, which we shouldn’t bother with. But so You do the split screen between Biden and Trump. It is not clear to me that Biden is any more disqualifiable in the You know, if I if I am an observer looking at them, and I mean, I have trouble honestly even putting myself in the mind of somebody who looks at the two and can’t make up their mind, We we got to see Trump as president. Right?

I mean, it’s not like, like, it’s not a fresh face. Right? Normally, when you have an insurgent campaign against her, an incumbent president, It’s a fresh face. You can project on to it whatever you want. We we all saw it.

Right? We all saw six percent unemployment and the stock market imploding. Like, we were there. And you see him with his man woman camera, Nancy Pelosi. I’m running against Nancy.

Well, all this other stuff, you put it Again, just visual aid, put them on a split screen together. It’s not clear to me that Biden is appreciably worse, but yet somehow, I guess everybody thinks Biden is appreciably worse because Trump has just always been crazy and always been a pathological liar and has always known nothing Now people are like, oh, Biden doesn’t remember that helmet coal was dead. Trump doesn’t know who the fuck helmet coal was. You know?

Yeah. But as you say, he’s insulated from that a little because he’s been president. I mean, a, which is maybe wrong, but, you know, they said, well, he was president four years. So what if you remember? He did okay.

I mean, the decree to which they were able to whitewash is four years. And and what’s the right word for that? In retrokaw, eureka, load so to say

How is that possible?

That was a big achievement of theirs. I’ve gotta say it all for all that, you know, right wing media is idiotic and stuff. They did a pretty, unfortunately, a pretty good job with Look, I wanna make I don’t think mine is actually losing votes because people think he’s all. I think his being old is such an excuse for all those people we know some of them who are in between, who don’t wanna comfortable with the Democratic party, who have by some of the other arguments about immigration, whatever it is, This gives them a place to go that doesn’t make them complicit they would they think in Trump and trump is you know, that that for me, that’s it’s it’s an excuse. Now maybe they’ll find another excuse.

I’m I I totally accept that point that, you know, they’ll find an excuse to me against Gretchen Whitmer because something she did discover her mission to them. Finding excuse god knows to be against Kamala Harris. So I I may be exaggerating just the importance of age as is, but it’s kind of a neutral excuse, you know, that it’s it’s a good excuse for a certain type of voter to move away from from from Biden because it’s not, you know, it doesn’t require engaging any of the things you just said. It just requires saying, well, obviously, he’s not up to it anymore. And I do think those of us who think he’s done a pretty good job and, of course, strongly strongly, strongly, strongly prefer him to probably underestimate just the physical appearance thing, the shuffling and so forth.

So I don’t know. I mean, I don’t know. I guess we’ll we’ll see what happens over the next few weeks in advance. I still think, I think this shutting down of a contest not having a vigorous primary. I feel like that would have rejuvenated in the sense of being re energized the Democrats and the anti trump forces.

The other thing I would say about Biden is he hasn’t done as much as you I think as he could have to really make this a coalition of democratic forces. He’s governed as a moderate democrat in most ways. But there hasn’t been a lot of explicit, you know, Mitt Romney’s in the White House. I’m gonna, you know, you know, Tony Blake’s exhausted. Mitt Romney’s gonna be state.

Now would that get a lot of Republican votes for Republican statement, Romney at this point. On the other hand, there are those for that ten, twelve, fourteen, fifteen percent who are gettable. I think that would say, okay. It’s it you know, this is the equivalent of FDR taking Republican’s in for secretary of war and secretary of the Navy in nineteen forty. It wasn’t clear that you really, you know, they were gonna be great secretary as a warrior of the navy, but they were competent and it showed, okay, we’ll go into wartime footage.

There, I don’t think I think Biden’s done a pretty good job in Ukraine and and on Israel for that matter, but he hasn’t sort of somehow, you know, FDR like ways. This is a I’m a wartime president, and I’m adjusting my normal way of doing things to take a care of that. I think they would help him because I do think people like in nervous about Trump given that these wars are going on. But as it is, as there’s focus groups show, they just say, well, there weren’t these wars going on with Trump I mean, it is it is awfully unfair. It is awfully unfair.

You know, let’s just blame the incumbent for everything we don’t like about the current state of America in the world. Unless, like, in credit for anything we do like. I was a very intelligent, not from middle class guy. I’m quite well off guy. Actually, the other night at a dinner of some other people.

And I made the degree to which on the border, he wasn’t quite he was repeating just He made it sound like we were all like quaking in fear here in Northern Virginia that we couldn’t go out because, you know, because five thousand people are coming across the border instead of two thousand. I’m not Obviously, there’s some problems with five thousand a day coming across the border. Incidentally, five thousand a day coming across the border for the rest of this year. America will be virtually unchanged. You know what I mean?

It’s like it’s not a huge number in a country with three hundred thirty million, most of it will be Bulwark working jobs and filling labor shortages and you know, sending money back home to take care of their families and so forth. So the whole thing is, nonsense. In my opinion, the whole thing, mostly nonsense. There are problems in the big cities and stuff. Did agree to which they’ve just they’re the Biden administration.

Doctor. Think has not done a good job. They either had to go as you first said a while ago, go right, you know, go in effect. Be tough on the border. Go right wing if you want to simply say it too simply on the border or they had to fight back against the disinformation about the border.

And they kind of didn’t either for quite a long time. And I think the same on inflation, some of these other issues, they’ve been sort of passive from a kind of communications point of view. You either have to sit give in basically and say, yep, that’s very bad, and I’m doing the following to crack down inflation, or it’s not as bad as you think in years’ wise.

Is your view that it’s too late to switch?

And my view is that it’s not. That’s a very minority view, and I I couldn’t honestly, you know, give you chapter and verse of how exactly it would work out. I just have this general dislike. Here, I think you and I very much the same place for for a kind of a fatalism that says We can’t do anything about anything. It’s like, we can’t, what would you expect the republicans to do.

Trump’s, you know, for so popular, would you expect anyone to do? I mean, it’s how long has it told the election? Nine eight months?

Nine months.

Nine months.

Enough time to grow a baby.

Yeah. Nine months. It’s quite a lot of times that we’re gonna commit. There are rules in place. It’s hard to get on the ballot.

Are those rules, like, in the Constitution? I don’t think so. Could the Democratic National Committee show them? Could they are writing votes allowed? Could biden step aside and urge people to vote for his delegates and then urge his delegates to, you know, think about certain candidate could he could you have even referendum formal kind of almost online referendum for certain, you know, but which candidates democrats prefer?

I think there are a lot of imaginative things one could do if done I just felt they had agency. I’ve been thinking about that to roll out. I’ll come back to them. I was like, and and anyway, so but having said all that, I’d be so unconventional where, I mean, it would have been incredibly much easier to get the feed steps aside before the filing deadlines and and all that. The agency you’ve written about this affair amount.

I mean, what is going on, Everyone just watches these trade racks happening all over the place and feels like they can’t do anything. And I understand why you know, quote ordinary citizens feel they can’t do much. They’ll still don’t really do stitches to try. But I know you talk to members of Congress, governors. It’s all like I’ve bought just in both parties incidentally.

Right? They’re all they’re all there there’s no feeling that she, maybe I should spend some time over the next weeks, months, a year, you know, try to do something about this problem. So in this respect, I said, I don’t blame Biden. I mean, Biden didn’t want her who wanted to run again. I think that was a mistake, but I also blame an awful lot of people who were unwilling to to run against him.

To even seriously explore running against him, to go see him and tell him he shouldn’t run again. I feel like James Garvel and I said it, you know, whatever we’re worth. But, I mean, No one said what said it. My impression, no one actually walked into the Oval Office and had the guts to just look the president in the eye and say, sir, I really think you shouldn’t write again. You know?

I mean, so there’s a lack of agency all around, which is bad for a self governing country. Right?

It’s, it’s one of the symptoms of decadence. Right? This is,

And authoritarianism is successful for a Thursday movement, abroads people’s senses, sets of agency, and it’s one of the main points of it. Right? And you can’t Well,

should that I mean, could you think we beat this guy twice? Why, you know, we we’ve already beaten why is it still here? Why do we have to do this again? Right? Right.

You feel like you’re stuck in groundhog day.

Right.

Alright. So, let’s keep a conversation here.

Alright. We need to say our bad words.

It’s gonna be a worse No. I don’t want Sarah back because, you know, at least you’ve read my newsletters. No, I’m kidding. Yes. Don’t get upset in the comments.

I see you.

And Sarah, don’t get upset.

Yeah. She? No. She wan’t listen to this. More importantly.

Do with all due respect to the commenters, right?

No. Sarah Longwell listen to this. So The, Supreme Court here’s the fourteenth Amendment case. Everybody seems deeply skeptical of it now. And, I guess we’re just gonna we can’t use this guardrail This guardrail is too terrible.

We’ll use the next one. I don’t know. Like, I I what are your thoughts on this?

Mean, I was always skeptical of this particular guardrail, I guess, just I mean, for actual reason, some constitutionalism and judicial role and so forth. But, but I agree it’s kind of a I mean, I was a bit of a I was a skeptic. Got it in the various, definitely write about it, not an expert, but and in the but in the various groups, I’m some just made it. There were a huge number of people who were gung ho for it. Like, huge number, a lot of people, and included a lot of smart lawyers and serious cuss.

And what’s amazing to me is, like, the day after the argument went bad news from court, they’ve got to throw it in the towel. Right? I feel like, yeah. Fifty algorithm was good three days ago. It’s still a good argument.

And maybe the Colorado had a didn’t have a, you know, Supreme Court class. Lawyer are doing oral argument. But this is a problem too, the degree to which everyone just fades, you know, capitulates on everything that I think got immunity, the Trump won’t win that and so the screen court will kind of, you know, let him stay on the ballot, but not give him immunity. And maybe that DC case will finally move ahead. After a couple of months of delay.

And if maybe that’ll happen in effect, that’s the one case. But again, I there’s not too so much thought though. Do you think they’ll

deny cert on the immunity or do you think they will hear it? Because I I suspect they’ll accept it but then sit on it.

I think they’ll accept it. No. But I think they would hope they would hear it quickly and, and let the truck happen in the summer. Sitting out, it really would be just Well, that’s yeah. I’m gonna say something stupid.

It would really be terrible. It would really be against the the way the court should work, but of course, maybe tends what faith one has in sort of the Roberts swing justices if there are some on the on the Supreme Court. So I don’t know. We’ll we’ll know that in about a week or two. So a little bit more sense of what what the calendar looks like over the next months.

But yeah, I but they could deny CERC because it’s a seems like a very strong DC Circuit opinion. They have nothing more to say, and if the majority agrees with it, why bother having a rearguer when they’re just gonna affirm it? The contrary cases, you know, it is to kind of avoid gays as Trump. Usually, you expect a supreme court opinion on it. Maybe not.

I’ve been skeptical that they were denied sir, but some of my friends who know much more about this than I do think they might just did I cert in which case you couldn’t get a trial, even then you get a trial beginning around memorial day. I don’t know. You you’ve what do you think? You get a trial beginning memorial day? Is that doable?

I mean, could can we imagine June, July, jumping? And, I mean, my, my legal friends say, I say it can’t fully happen, Kenneth, and this is how the legal system works. They don’t care about the primary schedule, the convention schedule. It’s if it’s a trial, the judge has discretion. But in this case, she’s made clear she wants to go to trial, which is she’s giving Trump a day, you know, extended the the the the beginning of the trial and, you know, for this delay for this stay, so she’s been careful to be proper in terms of Trump’s ability to prepare his defense.

But she’s gonna go and doing first the trial begins. I don’t know. Is that that’s the upside. And that’s the most positive case now. Can you realize the negative case is like, oh, it’s first or something like that.

So September first. Do you think it’s possible? I I feel like somehow. That would be why the court would sit out sadly, if Roberts and those people speak to you.

No. This is this is why I think they would sit home because they don’t want a trial. Before the election.

Yeah.

And they they will tell themselves, we will affirm this decision after the election. Well, or

And so this way, we’re enough that it can’t believe.

Right. No. You’re I’m sorry. Yes. We’ll we’ll affirm this decision late enough that they can’t have trial.

And this way, we’re getting the best of both worlds. We are clearly stating that we’re holding Trump accountable, but we will, not let the trial influence the election at all. That’s that I mean, that just seems obvious to me what what they will do. Interesting. We, we, we, being America, will get the worst of both worlds.

As as we do seem to do quite a lot. Yeah. That’s interesting. I hadn’t I would have thought about that, of course, right? That’s a good way of thinking about good putting it.

I would say, it’s how he could wow. We’re just doing outrage though on it. So this judge Canon, who Trump appoints right at the end of his term, and gets real real, yeah, out through the senate by Soon

to be the associate justice of the Supreme Court.

Yeah. I mean, but seriously, she’s doing things that are just, so I was on a couple of, you know, us callers with lawyers, the usual stuff. And I remember early on is that she seems like, could she just really just delayed this thing? And this is like, well, clear cut case. This is I’m sorry.

Yeah. This is the one where your doctor writes. This is a classified documents case, in Orlando, Florida. And they’re, oh, no. She can’t do that.

I mean, is a circuit court of buffer. Yeah. And she’s in charge. He cares about the respect to her fellow judges. And I think I may have invoked you in saying that, you know, I don’t know.

We’re in a different world.

Care about that.

We’re what she cares about is is the the the respect or the the praise, the support of Donald Trump and and and Trumpists, and including trumpists Ron DeSantis and trumpists in the private sector. And I remember having a very interesting discussion. Oh, no. You don’t understand the Moore’s bill of the courts and the legal establishment, she won’t be reputable. And I I this is where I come back.

People have not internalized. The power, the scope, the extent of the new trump establishment, the new Maga establishment, Tim was one of the first to to to bride about this. Right? And that these people are doing well. And and Debbie’s I mean, you’re right.

Judge’s doing great. To the point of view of her self interest, is judge candidate better off being one of many you know, I’m not conservative ish judges who, you know, does mostly the right thing about Trump, and it’s just, you know, doesn’t have huge allies on the left and is certainly is is attacked by all the Trump supporters, or is she better off being one of the trump, you know, a a a a a key character in Trump world? Or a well thought of character in Trump world, whom they owe something. I think the answer is right now, obvious. Now two years from now, maybe if the whole thing is discretion, then it won’t be obvious, but They have all done well.

Everyone I mean, not all, but most of the people who have sold out to Trump have not paid a price. That’s a huge No. Huge trouble for the last seven weeks.

Yeah. When people have paid a price are the people who signed up to him. Right? If you’re Adam Kinzinger or Liz Cheneyake or any number of people, right, if you if you were at Jim Langford, who, you know, in defiance of Trump, said that I’m gonna negotiate a good conservative Republican deal. Yet, you pay a price for Right?

All the manners

are the

same with the staff types.

Right? The strong man thinks. And again, it’s it’s all asymmetry because the same is not true for the other side. So if you are a normal judge, who or you are a you’re a democratic liberal judge, and you do things that are proper with the rule of law, but things that are, you know, benefit your There is no no brass ring for you. There’s no prize for you for doing that in the American Garland.

Joe Biden is not gonna nominate you to Supreme quirk because you You did something that pleases him, that’s not it’s a real problem. Hey, again. It’s JBL. The conversation goes on from there. If you wanna hear the rest of the show, head on over to Bulwark plus and subscribe.

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