How Anime Can Help Save Theaters

Welcome back to the Bulwark House. Hollywood, I’m very pleased to be joined today by Mitchell Berger, who is SVP of Global Commerce at Crunchy Roll. And I’m really excited to talk to to Mitchell today because Crunchy Roll is one of the most interesting and most really underreported stories, I think, in the business of Hollywood right now. You know, they I think folks every every few months are, you know, they’re surprised that another anime movie has debuted to twenty or thirty billion dollars at the box office. What’s going on?

Why is this happening? So I wanted to get Mitchell on to talk about that and and talk a little bit about, you know, activating these kind of niche core groups of fans and just how the business model works on their end because everybody kind of understands how a big blockbuster movie works. I think fewer people understand how this sort of thing works. So Mitchell thanks for being unsure. I really appreciate it.

Great. Thanks

for having me. I’m excited.

Let’s talk a little bit about the history of crunchy roll and funimation and how they kinda came together and and and how we got to a place where you guys can open a movie like dragon ball super super hero to twenty million dollars and shock the world every three months. Great. So it definitely been a a long and winding road to get here. It’s been a fun journey.

You know, both funimation and crunchy roll were very active in the in the anime space for quite some time. You know, I think, animation was in the space for twenty five plus years, crunchyroll has been around for quite some time. What really I think kind of started to bring things together not only the advent of streaming, which I think grew both businesses up pretty substantially. But, really, it was about Sony who came in. I wanna say it’s four years ago now, could be wrong with the date, but acquired funimation.

So brought them into the the Sony family. And Sony has a, you know, rich history in Japan, obviously, has a rich history with anime, and really, I think, understands the space in a very unique way. So they they got into that space with the funimation. Last year, they completed the acquisition of Crunchy Rolles. We’re able to bring both of those together along with some other acquisitions internationally.

And and really I think what they’re doing is trying to to build a really great place to service anime fans on a global basis. You know, they they looked at the space, they understand how popular it is with those fans, what the opportunity is there and really wanted to to lean into that, and they’ve done that. And I think that really is what set us up in large part to show the successes that we’ve shown now across all of our omnichannel businesses, including theatrical.

Yeah. I mean, it it’s interesting too because Sony, you know, Sony is kind of among the major studios, Sony is the one that has kind of said, you know, streaming necessarily for us. We’re gonna get away from from Crackle or we’re gonna, you know, we’re gonna we’re not gonna do the the video store in Playstation, but Crunchy Roll is a huge hit. Like a huge, huge streaming hit, which is really interesting to me. In terms of, you know, how do how what was it that they saw with you guys and and automation and everything else that made them think?

Like, okay. Here’s here’s a niche that we can that we can we can jump in and kind of activate and dominate. I think it really starts and ends with the fans. And that really is the the value here. We have such

a dedicated and passionate fan base on a global basis. And it it really if you look over the last five, ten, fifteen years in the the growth of anime, the evolution of anime. It’s a it’s a fairly major force right now, especially with with younger media consumers. They’re very, very passionate about it. You know, I, you know, for example, myself, I worked in the in the movie business my entire career.

My children never cared what I did until the day I started working in And suddenly, they were like, wow. That’s kinda cool. And let’s talk about this. And can I go to the office? Can I see how they dubbed stuff?

You know? And that was a real eye opening moment for me where you you see how important it is to this segment of fans and how passionate they are. And, you know, when we talk about theatrical and then I’m sure we’ll build into a good part of that success is because they are passionate and wanna come together as a community. I think Sony saw that and recognized the power of that community of interest there amongst anime fans. And thought they should they could bring something very powerful to the party there and they they have.

They’ve really helped us globalize this and bring anime to an incredibly wide audience.

Yeah. Let’s talk let’s talk about the fandom a little bit because I, you know, one of the things that’s really interesting to me is the expo, the crunchy roll expo, which, you know, is I mean, I I don’t I don’t know how to kind of parse these things out in terms of size, you know, when in my head, it’s like, okay, you’ve got San Diego comic con and then kind of everything else, but I assume you’ve been to the Expo. Yeah. You’ve been you’ve — Yes. — you’ve interacted with the fans.

What is that what is that like? What is it? What is that feeling of community like when you’re there.

I’ll tell you, if you if you want to understand anime, there’s no better way to do it than to go to an anime convention because you get this fully immersive experience. And, you know, whether you’re an anime fan or not, I think what you understand when you go with a kind of open mind into a expo is, the passion that people have. You’re in this space with tens of thousands of people who all share this love of this medium that called anime They’re doing cosplay. They’re buying they’re, you know, buying goods. They’re buying merchandise.

They’re going to panels. They’re talking to each other. They’re meeting up. A lot of times they’re meeting people in real life for the first time that they’ve been working and and communicating with online all this time that shares this fandom. So it’s just real sense of of community and festival and sharing and belonging.

It it’s just it’s it’s amazing. And what I really take away from it as a, you know, a lifelong media consumption person is the passion. Like, these these fans just live and breathe and love anime. It helps in some ways define who they are. It helps them find folks they share interest with.

And it’s just this powerful force of bringing people together. And when you go to the conventions, you kinda get immersed in that and you can’t help but feel the value that anime’s bringing to this entire community.

That it’s really interesting point that you make about people wanting to come together and and, you know, experience and celebrate this stuff together in person, which I think obviously is a big reason why the the theatrical releases have been such a huge success. So let’s let’s talk about that a little bit. When you are when you’re sitting around in the office, you’re trying to figure out, okay, this is what we’re gonna is what we’re gonna put on streaming. This is what we’re gonna put on, you know, fathom events. This is what we’re gonna do with fathom event four.

And this is what we’re gonna do a wide release. Kinda more traditional distribution for. How do you guys sit down and break that out? I think

it starts with, you know, I’ll say this as a starting point of how we go through that selection process. We at crunchyroll and Sony as well are big believers in the theatrical experience. So when you look at when we get films, we really believe in that communal theatrical experience. I mean, look, there’s nothing like seeing a film on the big screen, I think. I I know that.

You know that I’m assuming your listeners feel that way. It’s a special kind of event, and we really wanna bring that to our fans. So from a theatrical standpoint, we wanna look at every opportunity we can to give them that experience. And then I also think that that community part is something around it. And when you look at anime fans, they love to come together, they love to share their passion, they love to talk, they love to debate, they love to experience things together.

And doing that in a theater, there’s just nothing like it. There there is nothing like sitting in a darkened theater with two hundred or three hundred people who share your passion watching something that you love and experiencing together in real time. That just can’t be replicated anywhere else. And we really believe in that experience. So we try to bring that to them as often as we can.

Yeah. So again, like in in how do you how do you guys decide, like, which of the the

movies or shows will be the best to create that experience? So so a lot of it comes from when we can acquire content. So all of the content that we release, we acquire with partnerships from licensors in Japan. So they are looking at content, whether it’s an extension of a show, original content, things like that with an eye towards, you know, what is gonna work from a theatrical experience. We then work with those licensors as those movies are made or in production to acquire the rights to distribute them, you know, for whatever suite of territories we get, whether it’s globally outside of Japan like we’re gonna have with the sushi made.

It’s coming up next year like we have with Dragon Ball, whether it’s some subset of that We work with them to identify films that we think are appealing, that are quality films, that are something that fans are gonna love. We then acquired the rights, and then we worked on a distribution plan based on territory, based on demand, based on opportunity to bring it to theaters where we can.

Yeah. Do you guys ever worry a little bit about about piracy? Because I know, you know, when I I mentioned, I I was talking about going to see Dragonball in the theater with, you know, with with somebody, which I did this this weekend. And it was fun. It’s always it’s you know, as somebody who grew up, you know, this is me being personal.

Grew up watching Dragon Ball on my TV as a, you know, fourteen, fifteen year old. Seeing it on the big screen is a very different sort of experience and very, you know, kind of amusing and fun. But there there you know, some people did say, like, you know, the the one reason the gross isn’t higher than it is, is because it’s been out in Japan for a couple of months. You know, the people people have pirated it. It’s we’re we’re we’re losing revenue that way.

What do you guys ever worry about that when you’re making these deals? Sure. Piracy is always a concern. I think that piracy is a

concern for for media in general across the board. It’s definitely concerned in the anime space. When we look at it, look, we do everything we can to make sure that we’re giving people a safe legal, you know, value conscious way to consume content. I think that’s where you have to start to give people those options. For us, it’s really about ultimately wanting to make sure that we’re supporting the creators in Japan.

You know, so much of the creation of anime in Japan. It is a a wonderful industry. It’s a labor of love. But we wanna make sure that those creators and those artists in Japan get rewarded for the amazing content that they create. So For us, it really is about making sure that we do the best job we can to bring it out there to give you this big screen experience for theatrical specifically.

Also make sure that fans understand that look, by by supporting those legal ways, by going to a theater and seeing a movie like Dragon Ball, you’re supporting those artists and those creators back in Japan, and that in turn allows them to create even more of the amazing anime that you want. And I think that’s important for the industry important for the ecosystem.

Yeah. Yeah. For sure. I I haven’t talked to anybody who has worked closely with Fathom before, which is a is a business model, I find I find really interesting because it, you know, everybody thinks of big theatrical releases like, oh, you’ve got the massive ad campaigns and But Fathom is more targeted and it does in a more in a slightly more limited sense And I don’t mean limited in terms of small. Just mean limited in terms of like you’re doing one or two nights and that’s that’s you gotta get people out for that for that thing.

What is it like working with them? Both just in terms of, like, the actual pure mechanics of distribution because, you know, I like, in terms of making insuring image quality and all that sort of stuff. But also just in terms of, like, getting the word out there that, hey, we’ve got a we got an event coming up. You gotta go see it.

So so at crunchyroll, we do those events directly ourselves. So we do everything direct ourselves whether it’s an event style release or a traditional wide release. And we’ve built up that capability over the last eight years or so from the theatrical business and when we started the division.

What we

really focus on is when we look at you know, every film has an audience, and every film has a scale that it can support. And that changes over time, that changes by property, it changes by time of year, those kind of things. So we spend a lot of time understanding what the fan base is for the film, what the opportunity is for distribution. And then we will evaluate where do we want to go? One of the things that we’ve done a lot of that we started with Dragon Ball Browley and Dragon Ball Resourcing App is working with our exhibition partners on a hybrid model.

So traditionally, if I go back eight years ago, most animated films were released on this event style release where it was three, five, seven days, but it’s, you know, one showing a day, it’s appointment kind of viewing. It’s, you know, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Saturday, matting, eight, those kind of And that work that helped us build an audience, I think it helped exhibitors understand and and see the value of those anime fans that we could bring into the theaters. So as we have scaled this business, what we did for a while was really look at a hybrid model where we run a event style release, and we put it out there. We we do market to that. But what we’ve told exhibitors is, look, if there’s demand, if you see advanced ticket sales are going through the roof, if you see that, you know, fans are are really buying out the screens and you know there’s capacity for more, you know you can run it for a full run for the week, do it.

We the last thing that we wanna do is constrain the supply and the access in the market. To those films. Not every screen, not every city, not every town in the US can can bear a full run. It doesn’t always make sense. But there are anime things there and we wanna make sure that we have those opportunities to play even if it is just one or two nights.

What we’ve seen now over the last you know, say, four years or so is there’s much more demand now for a full run. There the ANMA has definitely grown. I think exhibitors have seeing the value of that fan base and how we can bring them in. So we are, you know, still doing event style releases, but we’re also doing wider release as you know, the the the race that we just did of Dragon Ball, super super hero, was a fairly wide footprint. We had great distribution across, you know, think it was was close to four thousand screens.

Yeah. That’s a testament to the fan base. That’s a testament to to exhibitors believing in us what we do. And then it’s, you know, us marketing and making sure that we can get fans into the theaters on opening weekend. Yeah.

I wanna I wanna talk about the relationship with exhibitors a little bit because it it is an interesting time in the world of theatrical distribution in the theatrical model. Right? I mean, I, like, for instance, this, you know, there’s a the national cinema day is coming up on September third. Right? There are three dollar tickets for any showing in any format, which is all well and good, except for the fact that, you know, I have a three year old and a six year old, three year old and a seven year old now.

Sorry. Sorry, my seven year old. Three year old and the seven year old, and there’s nothing in the theater. There’s nothing to take them to in the theaters, really. You know, except for DC League of Superpads.

I they’re they’re still probably too young to see dragon ball. Like, doesn’t doesn’t doesn’t doesn’t quite work for them. The lack of product is is very striking right now. And you guys are creating a product that is not only, you know, I mean, it is product, but it’s a product that has a real built in fan base. Mhmm.

And how have the exhibitors reacted to that from your POV. I mean, are you seeing more requests for movies? Are you seeing more more request for longer longer plays? What are what are you seeing from them? I

think two things I would say. One, the the the most exciting thing for me is we’re we’re not having to spend as much time educating people on what anime is and convincing them that it matters. I think that the exhibition community in general has seen the performance of things like demon slayer or my hero or Dragon Ball and they understand what that demand is there. And there’s there’s a a history now. You know, one or two of these films is kind of an interesting one off.

But as we have three or four of these, it’s a trend and I think that they appreciate what anime is and where it sits in the theatrical community now. So it’s great for us that we’re not having to convince people as much anymore the value of anime. We can talk more about, okay, what does it make sense? How can we make this bigger? How can we promote market together?

How can we make this as as big as possible? I think that’s that’s great. And then from our perspective, we are looking at you know, how much content can we bring to the to the theater? What’s the right number? What can we do to make sure that fans have something to come see what they want to?

But we always wanna make sure it’s a good experience. We’ll make sure that it’s good quality films that we market it well, that it’s it’s it’s something that that delivers on that promise of a theatrical experience. But I will say the exhibitor community has been amazing and are great partners for us. I mean, they’ve really worked for us and grown this business again over the last seven or eight years. And it’s a big testament to them because there were times when, you know, we were building this business that we had to get people to take a leap of faith, had to get them to trust us had to try some things out to prove that, yes, things will show up on a Tuesday afternoon and see something.

But they did it, and then they came back. And every six begets a little bit more success and a little bit more opportunity.

Yeah. So in terms of your release schedule over the next next year or so here. In terms, how many titles are you guys looking to do both event style and and wider? So if you know, if you if you’ve already got it planned out, you know. Yes.

We

we have a little I mean, we we’ve got, I think, four or so films that are either dated or we’ve been out that are coming, you know, between, say, now in April, and we’ve we’ve announced it. Suzime is coming early next year, which is Shinkai’s new film out of Japan. We were gonna have a one piece film later, I think, in a couple of months. There’s a few things that are coming along the way. We’re we’re not in the same situation because we acquire all of our content.

I don’t always have firm dates three years out. You know, I wish I could announce — Yeah. — phase six of what I’m doing. It’s just it’s just a different business model. So we we are, you know, sometimes opportunistic.

But I think what is I can say with with clarity is the flow of content coming out of Japan theatrically is as good as it’s ever been. And I think we’re gonna have a lot of amazing opportunities over the next twelve, eighteen months and beyond, to keep a steady flow of content coming to theaters, to keep things there that fans wanna see And honestly, for exhibitors to also have something that we know people are gonna come to month after month after month that we know we can open. So I don’t have a ton of specific dates and specific titles, but I can tell you we’re gonna have a regular cadence of films and we’re we’re really excited and bullish on the theatrical experience. So we’re gonna be leaning into it.

Yeah. I, you know, it’s interesting looking at news about theatrical and and distribution and everything because it’s always it’s always bad news. Everybody talks about, you know, bad. It’s all it’s always bad. And then sometimes you get, you know, the last for the last month or so, I’ve read nothing but stories about a twenty four, the, you know, successful indie distributor a twenty four.

And I love a twenty four. I I watch twenty four movies are great. But it it’s it’s a small scale success. And the way I kinda crystallized that recently just to myself was Look, the dragon ball super superheroes opening would make it the tenth highest grossing a twenty four to film of all time. That’s in one weekend.

In one weekend, they did that. And I’m I’m just curious from your perspective as somebody in the company, have you have you been noticing more people paying attention to this? Are you still feeling kind of ignored. I I I just feel like this is a big story in a world where theatrical is in some amount of trouble here’s something that was coming along to help it. And nobody’s really talking about it.

It’s a great question. I think we we don’t we don’t sit here and I think worry about being ignored. I think when you look at what we’ve done to a large degree, it speaks to itself. I mean, it speaks for itself. And really for me, what what I take away from and what I would love to see is I think it’s very validating for the fans.

You know, anime fans for years and years and years have been passionate about what they do. It’s not always been mainstream. You know, it’s it’s an interest a big journey as an anime fan. There are definitely some huge mainstream hits. There’s a lot that are a little bit below the mainstream.

But what we’ve seen is anime is becoming more mainstream every single day. And I think this theatrical experience is a great way, you know, when you when you see Dragon Ball super super hero being talked about in major media outlets and people in Hollywood talking about the opening. In a lot of ways, it helps validate as a fan like, hey, this thing that I love is is is being talked about in broader pop culture. And that’s a fun feeling. That’s a really cool feeling as a fan to say, yeah.

I’ve been on this for for years. I love this. Now people are seeing just how amazing this is. That’s what what really I focus on and what’s what’s great for me is helping the fans see that love come to fruition and other people see it and understand it. And then bring them in, you know, the what’s the I think the other great thing about the last two weeks of Dragon Ball and then the films before it is, every time one of these things hits and it becomes a topic of conversation for a while, People who aren’t in the anime space hear about it.

And some of those people were like, wow. I I should really go check that out. Like, oh, I wanna see what what is so special about dragon ball. Why are everybody going to see a demon slayer? Like, I’ve never heard of this thing.

What is it? And it gives us this great opportunity to expose new people to the medium And that is, I think, the magic of what goes on. Look, when you take a step back and you look at anime, like a lot of folks wanna talk about anime as a genre. And it’s really not. It’s a medium.

It is a way of storytelling. It’s a visual style. It’s a storytelling style. It is a medium that artists use. And within that medium, you’ve got every genre you can imagine.

You’ve got action films. You’ve got dramas. You’ve got slice of life and really emotional character driven studies. So there’s something for everybody within that medium of anime. And we have these moments when people outside the community are talking about it, they get curious and come in.

And if if you’ll come in and look at it, I guarantee you can find something that you’ll like and appreciate what what the artist and the creators are bringing to the to

the table. Yeah. Yeah. Mitchell, I wanna ask possibly not a personal question, but I I’m just curious from your perspective. As somebody who I I just find out before the start of you, you’re actually based in Dallas.

Correct. You are based in Dallas. So I am based in Dallas. There are not a lot of you know, film, TV oriented people based in Dallas. It’s it’s a I I’m curious from your perspective what it’s like just working as a film studio distribution executive in Dallas trying to trying to do all this stuff, you know, mostly on the coast.

What what what is your day to day like? What do you when you wake up, do you have a call in New York City and then a call in LA immediately after that? How does does it work for you?

I think everybody, I wake up. I go on Zoom. I stay on Zoom until I take a break to eat. And then, you know, maybe at some point, I can take them off. That that’s the world that I think we all live in.

A little bit. It it’s actually it’s great. Like, I love living in Dallas. It’s it’s a wonderful place and and I love I love being there. What’s amazing about us now in crunchyroll.

And again, as Sony has brought us together, is we’ve really become a global company. You know? And it’s it’s a time now where I can have a call. I can have a meeting at any time of day. We’re talking with our European team.

We’re talking with our team in Japan, in Australia, in Latin America, here in the US. Is always somebody on and working. So in in large part, yes, I’m based in Dallas, but we’re working as a as a global entity. So between travel, between, you know, video calls and things like that.

It’s a

it’s a great time to be in the business because I think you can you can connect with people it’s funny. I as a a personal story, we were talking as after the pandemic hit and we all, you know, spent every every single meeting on Zoom and all those kind of things. In a strange way, it actually brought us much closer together with our international teams because we were all equal footing. There’s something about everybody being on a screen that, yes, it’s it’s not personal, it’s not connected. But the team in Australia, the team in London, and the team in the US, all together on a call, you blur those boundaries then and you don’t be honest as cognizant of where someone is except, you know, the guy in Australia, it’s it’s two AM in the morning.

He’s a blue blurry guy. But it it helps you bring it together and really operate as a cohesive global company. I love that. Absolutely love that part of it. And you’re like, hey, travel a lot, you know, go go here there and yonder.

But, you know, the work is, what the work is, and and we can get it done from where we are.

So Yeah. And it feels like the modern motto right there.

Yeah. Absolutely.

Yes. You know, I always like to I always like to close these interviews by asking if there’s anything I should have asked. If there’s anything you think folks should know about crunchyroll, the distribution of anime, you know, anything about anything about this entire world? Or or something else entirely unrelated if there’s just something to think folks, you

know, a wide open point page to to write upon there. Look, the only thing I would say is, you know, as I as I mentioned earlier, I think anime is is something special. It is it is a community. It is fan based. And really, when I look at what our job is here, you know, a lot of media companies and a lot of, I think, creators in general, they’re trying to figure out a way to be everything or something to everyone.

Like, you you’re trying to crash the wide net. You really wanna be something to everyone to to find an audience. What’s different about us is we’re really focused on being everything to someone. That that’s the magic for us. And if if I can figure out a way that someone’s sitting in a theater in the the middle of Texas on a Friday night, and there were two hundred friends and they’re watching Dragon Ball.

And in that moment, that movie is everything to them and they can share this moment with friends and it brings just a sliver of happiness into their life. Then that’s what we’re here to do. And I will consider that a success. With that, I think is our our North Star. Everything else just makes sense.

It it is about bringing stuff to those fans. And as long as we keep those fans firmly in mind and what we’re doing is about the fan, I think the sky is the limit, whether it’s theatrical or selling home video or selling licensed goods or streaming service, It’s all right around that fandom. And that’s why I love being here. That’s what gets me up every morning. That’s what gets me excited.

That’s why I still love my job every single day.

Well, let me I I let me just ask one follow-up on that. It’s something I’m very interested in just in general. And I I don’t actually know about from your from your guys’ POB. So maybe this is a dumb question. But in terms of physical media sales, home video sales.

Are you guys still, you know, committed to the reality of Blue array, four k, DVD. What what does what what does that look like from your guys’ end? Very very much

so. And I would tell you our physical business is is pretty healthy. All things considered especially globally. U. S.

Germany, France, Australia, UK. There’s a lot of great markets out there. We’re we’re a big believer in the the what we call the omnichannel business or three sixty or whatever the buzzword is today, but it’s this entire lifestyle. And it it it gets back to fans. I talk about the fans a lot, but it really all does come back to the fans.

For us, I think what’s interesting is and and I’ve I’ve worked in in physical media a a good chunk of my career, so it’s near and dear to my heart. A lot of physical media is about buying a package to watch a film. You’re you’re buying a Blu ray because you wanna watch the film at home because you didn’t go to the theater, you wanna see it. That’s great. There’s a there’s a wonderful market for that.

For us, we’ve got these passionate fans. It’s about collecting. So it’s not necessarily about buying the Blu ray to watch the show, to watch the movie. Yes, that’s part of it. But it’s about the packaging.

It’s about the extras. It’s about this way that that as a and I’m a I’m a big collector of all things. Books, CDs, final comment books. Like, I’ve I’ve got a storage space full of toys. Like, okay.

Go on an episode of hoarders at this point. I love physical things. As a collector, and and a lot of our fans are collectors, it’s having the shelf and being able to put something up there that shows and talks about your fandom. It’s a way to express your fandom of the show. That’s why our physical business is healthy.

And I think gonna be healthy for a while. That that collectible mentality is really, really key and and we’re really leaning into that and feeding that. We could spend another whole hour talking about what we’re doing there, and maybe we should at some point, it’s a great business. And rumors of its demise are far,

far I would love to do another hour on physical media. We can do it in front of my I mean, you can see the books behind me, but I got a little blue erase shelf over there that we can we can we can do it in front of because this is again, it’s a topic that’s near and dear to my heart. I’m a big believer in the idea. And I and I’m I love to see I love to see companies like crunchy roll that manage to merge all of these different viewing formats into a successful business. I mean, streaming is should obviously be any component of any studio’s plan going forward.

But, you know, so should theatrical and so should come video sales. That’s you can make money with all of them. Yeah. Right.

But I’ll tag one last thing and then I’ll and because I’ll keep going for hours on this. The way I look at it is if if you’re a fan of a show piece of content, you’re gonna wanna then go so let’s just say you’re streaming a show, you become a fan. You’re gonna wanna go out into the real world and your real life and intersect with that. You’re gonna wanna buy good. You’re gonna wanna buy this and go to a theater and all those kind of things.

Wherever that fan wants to go interact with that content to express their fandom, I want us to be there. I want us to be there with them with an authentic crunchy little experience that says, hey, if you want to buy some action figures to put on your shelf, here’s an option. You wanna buy a blue ray box set? Here it is. You wanna go to the theater and see it.

Here it is. We wanna be everywhere that that fan is to go along the journey with them and give them a way to express that tandem.

That’s great. That is great. Mitchell, I really appreciate you being on the show today. And everybody should go check out dragon ball super super hero. It’s in theaters right now.

Sign up for a streaming membership and crunchy roll if you can do it all. It’s a it’s an exciting time exciting time out there. My name is Sunny Bunch. Culture editor at The Bulwark, and I will be back next week with another episode of Bulwark goes to Hollywood. See you guys then.

Get an inside look at Hollywood with Michael Rosenbaum. It’s get inside Debra and Whoa. If you had to choose between True Blood daredevil to do again.

Partially because the Marvel series feel unfinished to me because we got canceled when we thought we were gonna have more. Whereas true blood, we did get to wrap it up. I knew that we were wrapping it up. I could say goodbye to everyone. I stole something from a set.

I know I didn’t go steal anything from our daredevil set. Inside

of you with Michael Rosenbaum, wherever you

listen.