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Genuine Patriots and Useful Idiots (The Secret Podcast Preview)

February 16, 2024
Notes
Transcript
A study in contrast.

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This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors and omissions. Ironically, the transcription service has particular problems with the word “bulwark,” so you may see it mangled as “Bullard,” “Boulart,” or even “bull word.” Enjoy!
  • Speaker 1
    0:00:01

    Hey there. It’s JBL on the Secret Show with Sarah Longwell today. We talked about the death of the Russian patriot, Alexei Navalani, And we talked about Tim Miller’s interview with Dean Phillips. And, yeah, we actually talked a little bit about, the iron claw too. Here’s the show.
  • Speaker 2
    0:00:22

    I am I don’t And the reason is is that what just happened in America that might have left Putin feeling so emboldened that he could kill his number one critic. The number one the leader of the opposition party in jail who voluntarily went back to Russia knowing he would be jailed because he wanted to continue to speak out, right? They tried to kill this guy before. They were unsuccessful. The West has certainly lionized him, the media has talked to him.
  • Speaker 2
    0:00:54

    And yet, Donald Trump said maybe a week ago that he told this charming anecdote about, oh, if people didn’t pay their NATO bills exactly that yes Russia should and be encouraged to invade Europe, which is not how NATO works by the way. Okay? But Donald Trump made it clear that sure are are no. Yeah we’ll let we’ll let them have their way with you guys. That happened and then Mike Johnson speaker of the house refused to allow aid to Ukraine who is a sovereign nation that Russia invaded They refused to to and and it got immigration for it.
  • Speaker 2
    0:01:41

    The toughest immigration bill in decades, they were getting that for it. Used to hold the vote. Okay? What else happened? An American quote unquote journalist Tucker Tucker Tucker, went over there, got bent over by Putin, humiliated by him, gives him a soft soap interview and then walks around Russia talking to what the Russia I don’t even know what they’re like government bodies talking about how much better it is in Russia than in America.
  • Speaker 2
    0:02:16

    Going to a Russian grocery store to be like, look how much better things are here? So it is not shocking to me that in this moment Putin thinks he can get away with this. And that no one will push back because everything America has demonstrated everything the Russia files in the Republican Party who by the way now dominate Congress dominate the House of Representatives There’s still decent people in the senate but here’s the thing. I think Tim said this on the next level that that Mark what’s his name?
  • Speaker 1
    0:02:47

    Mark Wayne.
  • Speaker 2
    0:02:49

    Mark Wayne Mullens. Mark Wayne Mullen. Right? This guy, the one who’s like, get up and I’ll fight you during know, one of our best and brightest that we’re sending to the Senate these days. He noted how none of the senators, the Republican senators under five voted for the aid to Ukraine bill, which is very telling about the new generation of Republicans.
  • Speaker 2
    0:03:10

    You know, Vladimir Putin comes out and says, oh, no, no, I want Biden be the president. Sure. Sure. Okay. So this is where we are.
  • Speaker 2
    0:03:19

    They’ve interfered in our elections. They own a substantial stake in the new Republican Party. Yeah. So now Putin thinks he can go ahead and in broad daylight after every like novaney, he is a he is a known quantity here in America. They think he can offer him with no consequences.
  • Speaker 2
    0:03:39

    And it is it is sickening. This is one of those days where like it should be stark to all the anti anti It should be a stark moment for all the people who like to be like, man, man, man, man, man.
  • Speaker 1
    0:03:51

    It’s even worse. It’s even worse than all that.
  • Speaker 2
    0:03:54

    Okay.
  • Speaker 1
    0:03:55

    Because all those people who this should be a stark reminder to are instead gonna blame Biden for it. We’ll see, look how weak Biden is. Putin thinks he can just kill Navalny. It’s not, you know, when Donald Trump was, was president he was so strong. Putin didn’t invade Ukraine.
  • Speaker 1
    0:04:15

    That’s the worst part. The worst part is that the people who have made this possible are then gonna blame Joe Biden for it. That’s how perverse it is. It’s I mean, you know, dictatorship has its advantages. Right?
  • Speaker 1
    0:04:35

    You can you can do stuff like this. It’s brittle. I mean, this is in the in the giant political science view, the not the thirty thousand foot view, but the the orbital view from space. Detator ships can move with singularity of purpose. They don’t have to deal with opposition.
  • Speaker 1
    0:04:53

    They can kill people who are inconvenient. They don’t have to build coalitions. They don’t have to do any of the the messy stuff. They’re not constrained by anything. Except the imagination of the strongman.
  • Speaker 1
    0:05:05

    And they’re very effective at stuff like this. You know, There were a lot of times during the cold war when I would sit around going. Well, that’s not true. I wasn’t like really live. But when you look back in the history of the Cold War, you just think, how did we ever win?
  • Speaker 1
    0:05:22

    You know, like, the Russians had a lot of advantages. How did we win? And, it’s it’s very, very bad. And the useful idiots thing what Tucker is done here. I mean, it’s not it’s not just the interview with Putin, which is itself reprehensible.
  • Speaker 1
    0:05:44

    It’s not just the lying about the interview with Putin by saying that the reason he’s done it is cause no real journalists have have tried, which of course is a lie. A lie. It’s not that the the interview itself is, as you said, utterly soft serve. I’m just sat there. Let Putin Philobuster for twenty five minutes.
  • Speaker 1
    0:06:08

    And by the way, there are people who looked at that interview and somehow said, yeah, look how together Putin is. Joe Biden couldn’t give a thirty minute lecture on on, you know, American history, the way Putin did on Russian history. I am sorry, but Putin’s Putin’s lecture on the history of the Russian empire is totally fucked up. Yeah. Like, it’s the reason he knows
  • Speaker 2
    0:06:32

    it is it’s his alternate reality that he’s constructing very good at articulating the alternate reality.
  • Speaker 1
    0:06:37

    He could just sit around and say words. Okay. Sure. And and then to be used in and this is what I go go back. I mean, you know, a a large part of my my formation in thinking about the world in foreign affairs was is cold war based, even though I’m not I’m not that old, but you know, the cold war was a former thing.
  • Speaker 2
    0:06:58

    The whole people taught us were. Right? All the people who who taught us about politics really learned a lot because they lived through the cold war.
  • Speaker 1
    0:07:08

    And there was this thing that would happen all the time throughout the cold war where the Soviets would bring a bunch of red or pink commie leaning Americans over to Russia, and they would show them around, like, they take them to the party grocery store, right, and say, see how everything nice everything is here. And the these people then come back and write pieces for, I don’t know, whatever the lefty mags were, probably not a
  • Speaker 2
    0:07:38

    man bun. Thing.
  • Speaker 1
    0:07:39

    Maybe it was ramparts. Walter Duranti famously won, a Pulitzer prize for the New York Times for writing about how amazing everything was in Russia. And, these people are being used and used by America’s enemies. And this is the same thing. Like tucker going to Bullshoi, tucker going to grocery store, tucker saying how clean the subway is.
  • Speaker 1
    0:08:01

    Tucker saying how it’s all, you know, the nicest city in the world, you gotta be fucking kidding me. Kaffeevony. And the the lot and the one of the things he said, especially when he was talking about the subway, he’s like, this is why so many people are afraid to ride the subway in your five point five million people take the subway in New York City every single day. It is not the case that people locked in to their homes in New York City. It just It’s just fantasy, but it is exactly what happened during the call.
  • Speaker 1
    0:08:30

    It’s it’s exactly it, except the switch places now, and now it’s the Christian Jonathan Last right that is doing the propaganda for America’s enemies and not the socialist left. And it’s, it’s disgusting. So I don’t, you know, I I look at this, and I k. I got one more thing. I really, really there is a class of people who run around talking about the Biden crying family and how Joe Biden is a dictator and look at the urbanization of the American political system to go after the Donald Trump, the former president.
  • Speaker 1
    0:09:12

    And I have no patience for that because the Biden Administration has been if anything too much of a boy. I mean, not not I don’t believe they’ve been too much of a boy. I believe they’ve been exactly proper. Like, I understand that Merrick Garland, people think he should have moved faster. On the other hand, Merrick Garland didn’t know that Donald Trump was gonna be running for president again.
  • Speaker 1
    0:09:33

    Working to the assumption that, like, maybe we don’t have to do this. When Trump declared, he turned the investigation over to, a special council who’s independent of him. I mean, there are layers of walls of separation between Joe Biden and and what’s going on. You look at the justice system where, you know, Eileen Cannon is basically, you know, she’s the judge presiding over a case is essentially working as a crisis manager, crisis comms manager for the the most serious of the cases against Trump. I mean, it’s, you know, this is what it looks like to have an adversarial
  • Speaker 2
    0:10:10

    case against Trump is the January sixth case, but she’s the documents case.
  • Speaker 1
    0:10:14

    Well, I think the documents, so the open and shut case, the most open
  • Speaker 2
    0:10:18

    and shut case. The most likely to get a conviction.
  • Speaker 1
    0:10:20

    Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And this is what an adversarial system I’m not saying this is bad. I’m saying this is this is good, right, in an adversarial system of justice that is impartial you’re gonna have stuff like this, and it’s gonna be heavily weighted in favor of the defense and what, you know, these these are all the good things about America’s liberal system.
  • Speaker 1
    0:10:41

    Russia, at Lexi Novani, who gets poisoned with nerve agent in twenty twenty. By the government of Russia. He then gets put in jail, then shipped to an arctic penal colony in the arctic this is, you know, like it’s out of a James Bond movie or something, where he then put in a punishment cell, three of his lawyers are also jailed just for just for defending him. Two others flee the country and are arrested in absentia, and then he’s killed at eight forty seven. That’s what a crime family looks like.
  • Speaker 1
    0:11:18

    That is what the deep state the do you do you see what I’m saying? Like, it’s not like these people who running around yelling at Deep State don’t have an example in the world that they could look at and say, oh, that’s what that thing is. It’s not like they’re trying to imagine.
  • Speaker 2
    0:11:31

    Right.
  • Speaker 1
    0:11:32

    And it’s it’s it’s like we’re living in the upside down. It’s like we’re living in the upside down, Sarah.
  • Speaker 2
    0:11:38

    So on the upside down, one of the things you were just talking about like you you learned about this, from cold war history, but most importantly, like, we are you are a little, like, late seventies. I was born in nineteen eighty. Right? Like, our conservatism and our political my earliest political memories are about the cold war. Right?
  • Speaker 2
    0:12:02

    It’s like Yeah. And and and sort of being like a Reagan baby, what is so strange is to watch the Republican party actively be enthralled to Putin and Russia when so much of the identity of the Republican Party well into the nineties, in two thousands was as an anti Russian party as an anti communist anti dictator party. The kind of party who would accuse other people of being too soft on these things to accommodating that this was about right and wrong. This was about moral clarity and like that defined so much of how I thought about what the Republican party was supposed to be that it’s it is breathtaking to watch what is happening right now. I I just people I told this story already but I’m just gonna quickly tell it again a little bit about because I it’s been bugging me so much about how that her report came out being like, Fine’s a nice old man.
  • Speaker 2
    0:13:08

    And my phone just like blows up with reporters who want to talk about whether or not the how do the focus groups feel about Joe Biden’s age, which is like a question I’ve been answering now for a gazillion years. And it’s all the voters know about it. They had may have strong feelings about it. They think he is too old. They did not need their report to tell them.
  • Speaker 2
    0:13:27

    Right? Joe, Donald Trump gets on stage and says, yeah, open season on Europe Russia, go for it, unless you do exact unless you do what I say. And nobody calls me to be like, isn’t this insane? Isn’t this the crazies? Like, what do your focus groups think?
  • Speaker 2
    0:13:46

    About Trump just inviting state.
  • Speaker 1
    0:13:47

    It should end his candidacy. It’s
  • Speaker 2
    0:13:49

    and and but it should have been ended. He stood on the stage. With Vladimir Putin inside it against America’s intelligence community back in twenty seventeen. I mean, there’s a million disqualifying things in here. Not to mention just since you brought up the the DOJ, Comer, they’re impeaching Biden.
  • Speaker 2
    0:14:09

    Right? Their witness who said he had he’s being prosecuted for lying now.
  • Speaker 1
    0:14:14

    Yeah.
  • Speaker 2
    0:14:15

    He’s lying.
  • Speaker 1
    0:14:16

    The entire thing is based on lies.
  • Speaker 2
    0:14:18

    He’s fabricated a bunch of stuff, like documents and everything. Yeah. He’s gonna go to jail for lying, and Joe Biden’s been impeached Tucker, you know, Sean Hannity, they’ve been talking about it on Fox News endlessly on repeat Jesse Waters, telling people that Biden is corrupt and the whole thing is based on a lie, but it is not a lie that Donald Trump, we all heard it with our own ears and everybody acts not surprised by it.
  • Speaker 1
    0:14:45

    Yeah. Marco, did you hear little Marco’s, defense of it on the Sunday shows? Did you hear that?
  • Speaker 2
    0:14:50

    Yeah. I did. It was like he didn’t do it while he was president. He didn’t pull us out of NATO.
  • Speaker 1
    0:14:54

    And, you know, like, he’s just not a traditional politician. He talks differently than you people. I can’t believe you people are still falling for this. That was Marco. I was like, you know, we all know how you know, it’ll be fine.
  • Speaker 1
    0:15:06

    Other presidents have asked European partners to pay pay more of their share of defense, and that’s really all he was doing. Like
  • Speaker 2
    0:15:15

    You know what? It’s great. Let’s ask people to they should. They should. They should but you know what we never say?
  • Speaker 2
    0:15:22

    This and this is the thing. I I saw this defense. This defense of what do you it was a story about telling our allies in NATO to pay their fair share. There is a way to tell our allies in NATO to pay their fair share. It’s to say, Hey guys you’re not paying enough.
  • Speaker 2
    0:15:37

    I’m gonna make and and he does this, right? He’s been said this before. I think NATO allies pay more America shouldn’t have to do as much as it’s doing. Now, you and I might even just disagree with that as a policy matter and say, actually, America likes to be in the driver’s seat on these things. You know and that’s okay with us but like forget it.
  • Speaker 2
    0:15:56

    Let’s just say let’s take it at its value. Okay. Say that they should pay. That is planets apart from saying that the repercussions for not doing it is to actively say Russia can invade Europe. Like this is not this is not like funny game time.
  • Speaker 2
    0:16:16

    These things are the most serious things that could be. He can’t This’s like the the the what is it? The gaslighting by Marco that this is just oh you don’t have to take him seriously. You know who’s taking him seriously? Putin, Russia, Orban, every enemy America’s ever had.
  • Speaker 1
    0:16:34

    And it’s not like we’re it’s not like we’re talking about hypotheticals. It’s not like, you know, oh, well, you know Sounds like they
  • Speaker 2
    0:16:41

    didn’t just invade another democracy.
  • Speaker 1
    0:16:43

    It just happened. It’s happening right now. It’s really you know, once again, the contrast is as clear as possible. The facts on the ground, we aren’t talking about hypotheticals. We we have a real actual invasion with real war crimes and crimes against humanity and the real kidnapping of more than twenty thousand Ukrainian children and the expirations that And
  • Speaker 2
    0:17:10

    a real vote among American congressmen not to support them and and in exchange for for something that they say they desperately want.
  • Speaker 1
    0:17:20

    And, and we have a president who who has now made explicit that he views he views the world as A mafia Don. Right? This is I mean, the the the we you and I didn’t get to talk about this last week.
  • Speaker 2
    0:17:34

    You don’t mean Biden, our current president.
  • Speaker 1
    0:17:36

    No. I I mean The previous
  • Speaker 2
    0:17:39

    president. To be president.
  • Speaker 1
    0:17:40

    Who views it as protection money? I mean, to listen to him talk about that, Williams, like, oh, you’re delinquent. You’re behind in your payments. So I’ll I’ll encourage them to to fuck. That is literally like, mobster in New York making his rounds through the various restaurants for their for their protection racket.
  • Speaker 1
    0:17:59

    Otherwise, they might have a fire. Right. That’s that’s his view of the world. In the same way, but I don’t think anybody for his his I think people have forgotten this. Do you remember when there was the moment here, it was like, well, why aren’t we taking the oil from Iraq?
  • Speaker 1
    0:18:12

    Do you remember this back in in twenty sixteen, and he was like, well, we should be taking the oil. Like, we went and we, you know, we went to war in there. Like, it’s as if spoils like, this was his view with the world. This is everything is like it’s the mob. And, entities you know, at best in the best possible world, he will lose by five points.
  • Speaker 1
    0:18:35

    That’s it. That’s where we are.
  • Speaker 2
    0:18:42

    I’ll take it. I will take that.
  • Speaker 1
    0:18:44

    I’ll take it too, but it’s not sustainable in the long run. You can’t you can’t have a stable liberal society. Where every four years, you are rolling the dice and you have to come up with double sixes. You know? Like, you can’t it it doesn’t work.
  • Speaker 1
    0:19:06

    It doesn’t work.
  • Speaker 2
    0:19:07

    Yep.
  • Speaker 1
    0:19:09

    Alright. Can we talk about Dean Phillips and Tim’s interview with Dean Phillips, which was tremendous.
  • Speaker 2
    0:19:16

    Awesome.
  • Speaker 1
    0:19:18

    And I I wanna ask you your thoughts, but I two things I wanna set the table with. The first is that Tim was absolutely respectful and polite. And yet he did not let anything that Phillips said go past. And this to me was what every Sunday show interview should have been should be. Right?
  • Speaker 1
    0:19:40

    Every like, I don’t know how Kristen Welker should take notes from Tim Miller. And it was an utterly devastating interview. But the the real skills, like, anybody can be devastating if they just wanna be an asshole.
  • Speaker 2
    0:19:56

    Right.
  • Speaker 1
    0:19:56

    But Tim was utterly devastating while being just working in good faith and and being perfectly collegial, which was was outstanding. But this second thing is Phillips, his entire shtick is to attack Biden. And the Trump aspect of it is, of course, Trump is terrible. Blah blah blah. Let me tell you how horrible Joe Biden is.
  • Speaker 1
    0:20:21

    Let me tell you all the ways Joe Biden has failed. And the contrast of that with the Republican primary is amazing to me. That’s the the thing I most wanted. And also, I think most of his Biden criticisms are absolute Bulwark. Like, you know, Biden wasn’t bipartisan enough.
  • Speaker 1
    0:20:43

    I’m gonna bring bipartisan and shit, like, what the fuck are you talking about, dude? Like, but Anyway, but what what were your thoughts on it?
  • Speaker 2
    0:20:53

    I agree with you. And, you know, Tim, Tim’s interview style, which I I personally just works the best for me is that he talks to people like humans. Right? Like he he’s not have he doesn’t sit there with like a list of questions and then like let’s the answer happen and I remember, like, he inter like, he people get mad at Tim for interrupting, but, like, when Dean Phillips would do his, he would sort of go on his preplanned Ron DeSantis would interject and be like so, see, be like, see, this is the thing that you do. You’re not telling me right now why people should vote for you.
  • Speaker 2
    0:21:23

    You’re making a speech about why what you think is wrong with Biden. That’s not a pitch for you. And like Dean Phillips also walked away from the interview by being like, I will take your feedback because you have given me good feedback and this is, you know, like, but I gotta say I, here’s the thing, you know, I’m a real softie for the old problem solvers by partisan pitch. And he actually from a policy standpoint when he’s kinda rattling off some of the things that he wanted to do. I was like, these are interesting enough ideas, and many of them I agree with.
  • Speaker 2
    0:21:55

    And I, I especially agree with him that I think I’ve sort of been as I’ve been talking to Democrats as I’ve moved into more of a world where we have conversations. Like, one of the things that I’m always saying is, like, you guys have no idea, how big a problem immigration is you. You just don’t realize how how how much you are being held cat. Like it’s a third rail for them. There gets it’s It’s like you’re watching the Israel Palestine thing be one of the things that splits them apart.
  • Speaker 2
    0:22:23

    Immigration is also a thing that splits them apart. Because a huge number of Americans are like, just secure the border. Like, don’t have people pouring over it. That doesn’t make any sense. It looks like incompetence.
  • Speaker 2
    0:22:34

    And there’s other people who are like, well, you can’t talk that. Like, we need, you know, we need to let people come. However, they come and we need to, you know, help them and set them up. And, if it’s racist, if you don’t. And you know, I think that and then and then there’s a world in between.
  • Speaker 2
    0:22:49

    But the fact is is that that is a real minority position that any that our borders should just be not just open, but that we should sort of turn a blind eye and, like, find a pathway for everybody. And, and here’s the thing, I am a I am really pro immigration, like personally. I think it is good for America. I think it’s who we are. I think it’s our character.
  • Speaker 2
    0:23:10

    I think people I think Americans can be born all over the world. And if they got freedom in their hearts and they could come here, and I think we got a reformer immigration system to make much easier for people to become Americans, but like, that’s not the conversation Democrats have. They just don’t talk about it. And I think that is a prompt. Anyway, So I agreed with him on some of the policy things.
  • Speaker 2
    0:23:31

    But at no point did he make a big affirmative pitch for himself? His his argument was Well, I tried to get JB Pritzker, and I tried to get Rich Gretchen Whitmer, and they wouldn’t do this. So this is me being brave. And I gotta tell you, he sounds like, like what I took from it, from a character standpoint, do you know how people like, he’s got I think there’s a quality, not in all politicians, but you can feel it on a lot of them where the desperate need to be liked by your opponents is just like your animating characteristic. Right?
  • Speaker 2
    0:24:08

    This is a guy who wants to go on Fox News and have them be like, Yeah. Isn’t Biden isn’t Biden’s senile? And like Tim was playing him clips. I love this. Tim had the receipts who Tim was playing him clips And Deep Phelps is like, well, I push back on that, and you hear him absolutely not push back on that with Jesse Waters.
  • Speaker 2
    0:24:30

    You just hear him.
  • Speaker 1
    0:24:31

    Yeah.
  • Speaker 2
    0:24:32

    And so I what I love I loved about the Tim interview was, like, it was just cathartic for me, because Dean Phillips is behaving like a fraud right now. And his whole I’m
  • Speaker 1
    0:24:42

    very nice fraud.
  • Speaker 2
    0:24:43

    No. He does. He seems like a perfectly nice person.
  • Speaker 1
    0:24:46

    Great. This great neighbor. Love to have
  • Speaker 2
    0:24:48

    his neighbor. I don’t think he’s a bad human. I think he is, I think he’s making a very I think he has dressed up something as honorable that is actually quite self serving and ultimately silly. Like, Tim, the things that were cathartic that Tim was doing is you know, Dean Phillips is saying, there’s this enormous, you know, group of that there first of all, he everything he was doing was about polling. Right?
  • Speaker 2
    0:25:14

    It was like he was using, like, this chicken and egg logic of, well, people don’t want Biden because the polls say they don’t want Biden and Trump’s definitely gonna win. And Tim’s like, okay. Do you say there’s this enormous appetite for an alternative? And yet here you are and nobody seems to watch And, he was kinda like, yeah, but that’s because MSNBC won’t let me on to get my message out. And it was like, Sorry dude.
  • Speaker 2
    0:25:39

    If you say there’s a nobody wants to abide and they want somebody younger, they want an alternative, and you’re sitting right there and nobody wants you, like, That says a thing. That says something. Just the way that it said something that Republican voters wanted Donald Trump.
  • Speaker 1
    0:25:58

    Yeah. It’s a I maybe I’m wrong about this. I got the sense that Dean Phillips is a nice guy who got himself into a bad idea here and is now pot committed to it. Yeah. Way past, you know, in a way that he should have climbed down from this months and months ago, feel now feels like he can’t.
  • Speaker 1
    0:26:33

    Or has started to believe all of his own stuff, or maybe maybe it is that he, you know, politicians go where the approval is, and he feels like he’s getting approval from the right now because Yep. That he’s making trouble for Biden. And so he’s now thinking that his constituency, you know, which I think is probably I mean, unless he’s willing to change a whole lot of his policy views, and maybe he is, I don’t know. Then that’s not gonna be his natural constituency past the day when he endorses Joe Biden. And, the whole thing just sort of feels unfortunate.
  • Speaker 1
    0:27:10

    Yeah. In a little sad, in a way, maybe. I don’t know, because you could see a world in which he could have been a very helpful part of the Democratic caucus.
  • Speaker 2
    0:27:21

    Totally. He had a really and, like, Look, I think we should live in the world where he’s not there, you know, it’s not he’s not dead to everybody. Like, I do think that there’s democrats are pretty good at like circling the wagons and being like, you are. You’re done, bro. And so he probably never gets back let back in to Democratic politics, and he could have been a really good rising star.
  • Speaker 2
    0:27:47

    Although I will say listening to him talk to Tim. Nice guy. I wouldn’t say like a political talent.
  • Speaker 1
    0:27:54

    No.
  • Speaker 2
    0:27:55

    And and in large part because I didn’t think He had very good instincts about, like, I did not find him compelling. I did not find him engaging it’s all a little smarmy. It’s a little slick. And, I don’t know. I I just I didn’t necessarily think like, boy, this guy had the brightest future.
  • Speaker 2
    0:28:20

    He just he like could have been a good player.
  • Speaker 1
    0:28:22

    Yeah. Here’s so here’s the thing. So he could have as as Tim suggested, he could have made a name for himself by being the total agro attack dog on Trump. Right? And if he had decided to do a Gavin Newsom on steroids, I’m gonna go everywhere, and I’m gonna be the one saying all of this stuff about Trump that Biden doesn’t because Biden’s trying to be above the fray.
  • Speaker 1
    0:28:51

    Maybe he could have found ten percent for himself or eight percent for himself or something like that. But instead, he decided he was gonna go after Biden on that and just leave the Trump stuff kind of there. And so that speaks to his native political instincts, I think. I think they just aren’t very good. But the other the other thing that I I really, really bugged the crap out of me.
  • Speaker 1
    0:29:19

    Was his his attacks on Biden for not healing the soul of the country and not doing bipartisan. It was like he was coming from an alternate universe.
  • Speaker 2
    0:29:30

    Yeah.
  • Speaker 1
    0:29:31

    And there are god knows. There are things that Joe Biden can be criticized for. For for sneering at Trump voters is not one of them. Right? This is, you know, he he he was taking things that the, you know, the progressive Bernie Bro types well, not in Bernie Bro, the progressive elites on threads say when they’re being mean about Trump voters and ascribing it to Joe Biden, which is which is stupid.
  • Speaker 1
    0:30:03

    I mean, I mean, it’s it’s well, I’m It’s either dishonest or stupid. I’m not sure which. Yeah. Because Biden doesn’t do any of that. Hey, Sarah.
  • Speaker 1
    0:30:10

    Do you know, there’s there’s actually more of the show.
  • Speaker 2
    0:30:13

    Oh, there is how much more.
  • Speaker 1
    0:30:15

    There’s more so much more. All of the more it goes on for hours. If people want to get the rest of the show, you you know what they have to do. Right?
  • Speaker 2
    0:30:22

    I think they have to go to Bulwark Plus. Do they have to subscribe? What do they need to do?
  • Speaker 1
    0:30:26

    Yes. They have to pay us money. Oh. Pay did me in his money. And go to the Bulwark dot com and subscribe to become a member of Bulwark Plus.
  • Speaker 2
    0:30:36

    All the good stuffs on the other side.
  • Speaker 1
    0:30:38

    Bye.
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