Errin Haines: A Not So Super Tuesday

Hello, and welcome to the Secret Podcast. I’m Tim Miller. This morning, one thousand one hundred fifty five days after Donald Trump incited a deadly riot on the United States capital in an attempt to overturn a free and fair election, he stands alone in the GOP primary and root to a third presidential nomination. That he’s won in a landslide with no modern precedent. His final opponent, Nikki Haley suspended her campaign this morning during remarks in South Sarah Longwell

have always been a conservative Republican and always supported the Republican nominee. But on this question, as she did on so many others. Margaret Thatcher provided some good advice. When she said, quote, Never just follow the crowd. Always make up your own mind.

It is now up to Donald Trump to earn the votes of those in our party and beyond it who did not support him. And I hope he does that. At its best, politics is about bringing people into your cause. Not turning them away, and our conservative cause badly needs more people. This is now his time for choosing.

I end my campaign with the same words I began it from the book of Joshua. I direct them to all Americans, but especially to so many of the women and girls out there who put their faith in our campaign. Be strong and courageous. Do not be afraid. Do not be discouraged.

For god will be with you wherever you go.

Wof. That is a depressing state of play, but I’m delighted to have my friend, my former co guest host Aaron Hanes to break it all down. Aaron is the editor at large. Of the nineteenth news, a nonprofit newsroom reporting on gender and politics, it’s the subject of a new documentary on PBS called breaking the news, She’s also the host of the Amendment Secret Podcast, Aaron. Thanks for coming on.

Wow. Thanks for being here because you’ve been everywhere these last few hours, my friend.

Well, you know, this is our moment. The former Republicans to talk about the state of play to shame people to wag our finger, and I’m wagging my finger. I’m wagging. I think that my forward colleague should feel deep shame this morning that their opposition to this guy was so limp that he won every state except Vermont and Washington, DC. But, anyway, what are your takeaways from, from our super Tuesday last night or not so super Tuesday?

Well, I mean, yeah, not not so super Tuesday. Right? I mean, I think that this was kind of the outcome we expected complete with Nikki Haley bowing out after Super Tuesday. I mean, she didn’t really have any campaign events scheduled after Super Tuesday, which is always a tell. Right?

And she said, you know, she was gonna stay in it at least until super Tuesday and and for as long as she could remain competitive. Well, clearly, not competitive based on what we saw coming out of last night. And so the question really is, what does she do now? Right? What is what, you know, she is somebody that went a little harder towards the end after former president Trump is she gonna stick to that, or or or does she end up falling in line with with the rest of her kind of fallen comrades here that were on the campaign trail?

And now you know, where she finds herself on the other side of that, are we gonna see her on a campaign stage with Donald Trump sometime in the near future as he continues his march to the nomination.

Oh, we in the darkest timeline. That’s your question for me, Aaron. Like this, she could’ve really I mean, I guess, all these other people folded. Right? I I don’t really know what reason there is to have any hope that she’s not going to.

I do think it’s meaningful. I mean, you look at last night, and my main takeaway is of the presidential. I wanna get there was a lot of interesting stuff kind of down the ballot. I wanna talk to you about, but, at the presidential level, it’s like, it’s a pretty rump group, but this point. I mean, she’s getting nineteen percent in some of these states, seventeen percent.

It was, you know, above twenty in North Carolina. Yeah. You know, above thirty in Virginia, but It’s a small group, but the people that voted for really don’t like Donald Trump if you look at the exit polls, like fervently dislike him. And so what she does could potentially nudge those you know, one way or the other.

True, but nudge them where. Right? Nudge them to the couch or nudge them to Joe Biden who she has also kind of been hitting. In these last few weeks. So, I mean, that that really is kind of unclear.

Like, what is the role that she’s planning to play? I mean, we certainly haven’t seen like a Chris Christie, for example, you know, he drops out. He’s he’s not endorsing Trump, but where is he? You know, he just kind of went away after that. Tim Scott, we have seen, you know, clearly, you know, angling for the veep stakes here.

Yeah. Interesting your take on, one race in particular down the ballot. Our friend Mark Robinson. North Sarah Longwell, Lieutenant Governor of North Sarah Longwell know, it has a just a range of conspiracies that are kind of too insane to list almost. Things Biance is demonic.

He’s worried about the lizard people. Doesn’t think that school shootings are real. It’s called David Haga Prostetot. Which is not that funny and, thinks gay people, not big on gay people, filth, cow dung, end of society type stuff over gays. I mean, we could go down the list down to big fan of Jews, either holocaust denial.

What I’m just asking you to set maybe give me a psychological assessment about of this man and of the party that is nominating him.

Not my ministry either. But, I mean, look to your point, like, we have a Republican who says, you know, god formed him to fight LGBTQ plus acceptance to, to fight that. This is who just won the North Carolina GOP primary. He also is an opponent of abortion, which we know is on the ballot headed into November. So, I mean, you know, he is looking to challenge, this Democratic attorney general in November, North Carolina currently has a Democratic governor who has been kind of this firewall on the Republican Super majority in the state legislature and and has blocked a lot of GOP priorities in North Carolina.

So, I mean, this guy not doing a psychological assessment at all, but he is a pastor. He has this kinda long history of making these anti LGBTQ plus comments from the pool pit. And, you know, he said, you know, transgender women are gonna be arrested if they use a women’s bathroom. So, I mean, this is somebody who is is absolutely leaning into the culture wars, but it paid off on this primary. So I don’t know, you know, I don’t know what that says about where North Carolina Republican voters are headed into November and and what that says for maybe where the Republican party is.

I mean, this is somebody who’s probably going to be on a Republican Ron DeSantis stage because remember, Donald Trump just crowned him Martin Luther King on steroids, whatever that means. Try putting that in AI and see what comes out. I’d love to see what that means.

Yeah. Martin Luther King times two Martin Luther King on steroids. I don’t know if that was a wait. Would you think that was Donald Trump making a subtle joke about his weight or, you know, about the content of his character?

Character on steroids. Maybe. I don’t know.

I know what it says about the Republican party. It’s, you know, there’s the Thomas Massey line that I always fall back on. Which is he’s a tea party guy in the house who who said that he always thought that the that Republican voters were voting for the most conservative candidate. In the race or the most anti small government candidate in the race, but what it has turned out to be is that they are voting for the craziest son of a bitch in the race. And, I mean, that’s true in this across the country last night.

I mean, in Texas, Ken Pxton gets impeached by, you know, the House Republicans and then acquitted by Senate Republicans sounds familiar, and then goes on a revenge tour and takes out, you know, a lot of the mainstream Republicans last night Denesh DeSusa’s son-in-law is a thirty year old movie marketer. If you wanna call it movie marketing, it was, two thousand mules, the conspiracy movie of twenty twenty election. He wins a primary last night over, you know, I mean, people that actually have real jobs. You know, I don’t I don’t know how mainstream their beliefs are, but it was, you know, a mayor and former congressional chief of staff against a child that marketed a conspiracy movie. Like, it is consistent across the board.

This is the kind of folks that that the party’s putting up. I mean, I I wish we could spend any other way. Okay. I want your take on what’s happened on the other side. You know, there are kinda two points of view about this uncommitted vote I look at Minnesota, and I get a little alarmed.

Yeah. And just to be honest, Joe Biden has seventy percent in Minnesota last night, nineteen for uncommitted Dean Phillips. It’s his home state, but he eight percent. There also are folks out there. I think rightly, uh-uh, Bill Sure pointed out that the Obama twenty twelve share of the vote is not really meaningfully different from from Biden.

A lot of people were uncommitted and and supported protests candidates in twenty twelve. Which side of that do you fall on? Like, this is something that Joe Biden should be really concerned about, or this is kind of a pretty standard Democratic protest vote.

Yes. Yes. But, you know, I mean, I mean, like, I think it is something that the administration is paying attention to. I mean, uncommitted at this point, I think has something like what? Ten delegates I mean, is that enough for them to, you know, be uncommitted to be your nominee?

No. But is it enough to say, hey, maybe we should be listening to the folks that are frankly in this coalition that they’re going to need to win in November. Again, they’re gonna need to put those folks together. And right now, some of those folks you know, while they may still be planning to vote for, you know, a Biden Harris ticket do have some concerns. And and and given that voter enthusiasm is kind of where it is, you know, it’s a buyer’s market, right, right now for them, for in terms of, like, them really kind of trying to set an agenda of things that they would like to see administration doing.

So it’s not really just about them hitting the campaign trail and telling them, you know, this is what we’re gonna do for you. I I I think that they are in a position where they really do have to listen to voters this year if they want them, not just turning out, but also knocking the doors, making the phone calls. I mean, is also part of the voter enthusiasm part, right, to to get people to actually show up for them because we know this election is gonna be close again. So much of it feels familiar, but this is absolutely not a status quo year. And so even though you do see kind of some of those familiar, dynamics in terms of the uncommitted vote that kinda crops up every cycle, why they are uncommitted, or why they are kind of being don’t know these kind of conscientious objectors for lack of a better word on on some issues.

That is worth paying attention to, and that that is worth them them responding to. And I think you are starting to see some of

I particularly wanna dig in on and, you know, this is obviously happening across the board. It’s happening with young college. Grads, on in the democratic coalition, you know, the thing that really jumps out, you know, from the recent polls, the New York Times poll, And, again, some of this is noisy. We’re looking at crosstabs, but there’s a consistent trend in crosstabs that voters of color Hispanic voters and black voters in particular are going away from Biden at rates higher than they did at twenty twenty. Do you think about that?

Is that noise? It’s early. The the choice hasn’t congealed? Is that Gaza? Is there something else happening?

Is it culture war? Is that we shouldn’t be getting our underwear generated about this in March before November. Like, when you’re out there talking to voters, Bulwark voters, Hispanic voters, like, what’s your sense for?

Yeah. I mean, again, it is kind of an all of the above. These are voters that are pragmatic number one. Let me just say that. I mean, that was certainly what we saw in twenty Twenty, you know, they are absolutely paying attention to what’s happening in this country.

Absolutely care about what’s happening, in this democracy. And and especially, you know, a lot of the black voters that I talk to, as much as it is about either one of these candidates, and certainly Bulwark voters we know overwhelmingly vote for Joe Biden and and rejected Trump, and and I suspect that that will be the case again. But their vote is as much about their own power as it is about trying to give somebody else power. So, you know, if that is the message that is being reinforced for them, I do think that you, again, black voters are gonna do what black voters, you know, typically do in elections, abortion being on the ballot. I mean, rights in general being on the ballot is something that I think will continue to resonate with, you know, voters of color And it is early.

I mean, you know, these are folks that are working that are looking at the price of groceries right now. They’re not looking necessarily at you know, what happened, coming out of Super Tuesday. So, you know, I think as we get closer as it, you know, becomes time to vote, I do think you’re gonna see more chatter, more activity and and frankly these folks showing up at the ballot box.

I feel like out of my comfort zone on this one, just trying to, you know, I’m I feel like I I really do feel like a green room pundit trying to, you know, divine the will of of folks. Like, I just it’s not my people. You know, I’m brought in to talk about why these fuck crazy Republicans are doing what they’re doing. I was paid to try to figure that out for a couple decades. So I I feel comfortable analyzing their intentions.

The answer could be as simply that you know, because it is working class. Right? It’s non college, black voters, and Hispanic voters that mine was doing worse with. And so you just look at that and it’s like, well, I don’t know. Maybe it’s Gaza.

Right. Maybe it’s a feeling of of, you know, Ally ship that that question. Maybe it’s culture war stuff. Maybe war stuff is working for Republicans, but, like, also maybe the simple occam’s razor answer is, like, people are still annoyed about grocery prices, like inflation did disrupt life and people are just expressing the pollsters like that frustration. Again, you’re you’re right to point out, like, box voters, obviously gonna vote binding and big margins.

But the question is, like, how big those margins are is gonna be pretty damn important.

That’s exactly right. It’s gonna be hugely important. I mean, like, literally kind of the the persuasion strategy right now, for folks is not just in terms of voting for a candidate, it you’re persuading people to get off the couch, right, and not stay home on election day. And so I think that that is a real concern for people who may be looking at their circumstances, thinking, you know, what is the point. It’s not that they don’t care about their country, but they need to understand how their vote is going to matter this year.

And while people like you and me who get paid to think about this for a living are very clear on why, you know, it is important to vote You know, that’s not always the case for some folks whose circumstances do not change no matter who the president is. On the ground, their reality, They don’t feel like their reality is is impacted by that even though it is.

I hear you on that. And and look, I was just pulling this up I mean, Biden wins Bulwark non Hispanic voters by eighty four and ninety two to eight. The problem is that that gives Trump a lot of room to grow. Right? I mean, even if you’re only winning thirteen percent of the vote, that’s still cutting the margins by five.

The question I have for you on this point is when you’re talking about this mistake, question. And and you and I follow this stuff closely. I got a little nervous. I have to admit there’s a New Yorker profile, Evan Osmosis interviewing all the Biden folks. And Mike Donnlin is in there.

One of Biden’s closest advisors saying this election’s gonna be at democracy. Democracy’s gonna be on the ballot. I’m for that. I’m for that. We’re gonna talk about a fucking shit ton on this podcast.

But, like, you know, for folks that are worried about grocery prices, does that spook you a little bit? Like, just thinking about the there’s gonna be too much of a focus on on, you know, these sort of esoteric things instead of practical things that might matter. No?

No. And only because I mean, look, first of all, because I I believe there’s no such thing as a single issue voter. Right? So, you know, for people who are concerned about They can also be concerned about the economy. They can also be concerned about reproductive rights.

They can also be concerned about gun violence. They can also be concerned about lgbtq plus issue We contain multitudes as voters. Right? And I think that we need to remember that that there can be a number of factors that contribute to a person, actually getting up and going to cast their ballot. So we, you know, we should absolutely remember also, like, all of these things kinda fit under this umbrella of, you know, what we mean when we ask people, do you think this country is headed in the right direction?

And they say, no. Right? So, you know, I think it it it is kind of on us to kind of unpack that with them and understand, you know, what do you mean by that? You know, what do you mean Republican voters when you when you say that? What do you mean?

You know, Democratic voter in, you know, South Georgia when you say that that things are going in the wrong direction for you? And how is that going to motivate what you decide to do in November? Because, again, like, I feel like we focus so much on people’s feelings when, again, like, Okay. We’ve heard how you feel. How was that motivating what you were actually going to do in November?

I got a lot of feelings.

Big feelings. You got a

lot of feelings, so many. That’s why. You wrote recently about this. You wrote out why aren’t the presidential candidates in either party better at talking about race for the nineteenth. And I just I just am wondering, you know, if if president Biden calls you tomorrow’s like, hey, I wanna have coffee.

You know, I was watching more Joe. They’re talking about the crosstabs of this New York Times poll, and I don’t know why I’m only up by sixty with Bulwark voters. The race issue get thrust into the election in twenty twenty. I guess, to be honest, because of George Floyd. Right?

Like, it got thrust into the middle of the general election. We don’t know what the future holds. We don’t know what issues will rise to for what will happen. So in a vacuum, kind of outside of a specific instance like that, how would you advise, present, find, kinda, talk to? You know, Bulwark voter demo as we look ahead to November.

Yeah. I mean, I think, well, advise would be a strong word, but I would certainly point out

You don’t wanna be an adviser? You don’t wanna do some pro bono advising? You never know. You might get summoned. You might get summoned to the White House.

You never know.

Let me see. Phone, not ringing. But what I would point out, you know, in case he is also a listener of the bulwark when he is not watching Morning Joe.

He might be. It is

worth pointing out He is somebody who, you know, has enjoyed popularity with black voters. Definitely credits them for his twenty twenty victory. I think, you know, acknowledging really being honest about the reality that that there is some stuff that Bulwark voters wanted to see happen from this administration that didn’t happen this cycle and So acknowledging that that didn’t happen, saying that this is something that’s that is still a priority to him, you know, that he does still wanna try to accomplish in a second term. I think that matters. Continuing to kind of be out there talking to folks on the ground about, you know, what he sees as as his accomplishments for folks, including for black Americans, like, they need to feel like they are part of this agenda.

They need to feel, you know, like any constituency. Like, this is a president who sees him, who understands, you know, what it is that that they are going through and and that they are a group, you know, that that he is working to serve, you know, when he is governing. So his state of the union is Thursday. It is on the anniversary of Bloody Sunday. I can’t imagine that he’s not going to address.

You know, issues of race, particularly around voting on Thursday, you know, but what does he say? What what is that message to folks? And then, you know, immediately coming out of state of the union, He’s going to Pennsylvania and and Georgia Atlanta and Philadelphia. Right? I mean, so clearly, you know, he he understands that these are places and spaces where he needs to be and that these are folks that he needs to be talking to and taking on.

But they need a a better message around this again because it galvanizes folks. But what I Will Saletan the other side, you know, you got, you know, the former president with these gold sneakers and, you know, kind of trying to establish this kinship around criminality.

By that move. You know, the the mugshot.

Did you get a pair?

The mugshot and the sneakers. That’s what black people like. Right? Mugs shots and sneakers? You you think that was pretty good?

Because of their shared alleged criminality. I I guess that is not a message that is going to appeal to voters, and in fact may end up galvanizing some black voters to to come out and vote against him.

I wanna get to the Philly in Atlanta of it all since that that’s your turf. But, you mentioned that the the state of Union is on the anniversary of bloody Sunday when the demonstrators were beaten by officers on the Edmund Petice Bridge they previewed that they’re gonna talk about that? That hadn’t crossed my mind.

I have not seen it, but, I mean, the vice president was literally in Selma on Sunday, when they when they had the observance of of the anniversary and and was continuing to kind of make the case around this election being about rights and being about democracy and really are duty and responsibility as Americans to really fight for democracy as those people did on the bridge that day, you know, making that connection in this moment felt hugely important. And then also, obviously, the headline coming out of Selma was that she tied this freedom struggle to to the situation in you know, really making kind of some of the administration’s strongest remarks yet around the Palestinian humanitarian crisis. And calling for a ceasefire. Right? I mean, I I don’t think that happens without pressure from, you know, activists, including, you know, black folks who are concerned about the situation there.

As you said, after the Union Vine’s gonna head down to Atlanta and Philly. You’re from Atlanta. You’re in Philly now. You reported in Atlanta. Let’s do a little handicapping.

Let’s just do a little ranked politics here for a second. Like, what is your feeling, you know, when you talk to folks on the ground in both Georgia and Pennsylvania. I I, you know, I don’t have a ton of data to back this up. There’s some public data, but Georgia is definitely feeling shakier to me. Than Pennsylvania as far as potentially having a little bit of a snapback element.

How do you kind of assess those two states?

Well, governor Kemp is not an unpopular governor there.

And Shapiro isn’t. And this could be as simple as that. Right? Chipiro is a Democratic governor, Pennsylvania Kemp, Republican and Georgia.

Yeah. And this is somebody who, you know, even Democrats remember as giving them, you know, stimulus checks in the pandemic. Right? So they think about that. Maybe they didn’t vote for him, but they at least, you know, don’t necessarily feel like he is a bad person.

You know what I mean? Also, you know, the January sixth of it all and him, you know, not finding those twelve thousand votes down there. For the former president, that is something that also kind of resonates with a lot of people. So I think it’s gonna be George is gonna be interesting this year. I mean, for Democrats part, you know, you do have Democrats that were proud of what they were able to do in Georgia in twenty twenty, you know, not only electing president Biden and vice president Harris, but also, you know, sending two historic senators, you know, to Georgia in that runoff But is there the enthusiasm to kinda replicate that again in twenty twenty four?

I mean, I think that’s why you’re seeing these folks down there repeatedly and working so much earlier to kinda shore those folks up because, you know, Georgia is not a done deal as a as a purple state by any means. You know, I I certainly would not say that just based on what happened in twenty twenty.

Yeah. I mean, Georgia, I think always there’s this, like, need in the pundit class for people to try to do an either or on this question of, like, Oh, it was it persuasion of former Republicans in Georgia or was it Stacey Abrams and activism turnout. And it’s like both. It was both. You they need every fucking vote.

It was

a coalition there too.

You need every vote. I mean, you don’t win a state like Georgia that went in huge margins to Mitt Romney by not winning any Mitt Romney voters. And you also don’t win the state by not by not maximizing the base turnout. Yeah. I do think that both with Kemp and with some of the others staying with the softness of Biden’s base this time, that combination worries me about Georgia.

Yeah. I mean, him going to Philadelphia and Atlanta, you know, kind of straight out of state of the union I think that is a sign. I mean, and why not? We’ve got it all. Right?

I mean, unions in Philadelphia. You got black voters in Philly and Atlanta. You got suburban women. Young voters, all the groups that he’s needing to shore up are in places like that. And so, you know, the messages that he delivers there, and also you know, the messages that he received there, I think, are gonna gonna matter and help to shape this race.

I wanna go back to the vice president for a second. I think. Am I right? You were the first person to interview her after she was, put on the ticket with Biden? That

is correct.

Okay. So you go back with Kamala. I feel like I ask the same questions to everyone about Kamala because it’s like the only question that matters and I don’t wanna know different people’s opinions. I don’t know her personally. I haven’t I haven’t known her personally, but I have a lot of friends who have.

And, you know, she was in California. I know a lot of people that have seen her, you know, work behind the scenes. She’s not dumb. And she didn’t get the to the vice presidency by being dumb. And she does the Bulwark, is intelligent, is passionate, people Bulwark for her like her, and yet, her public persona, like the PR side of it, there’s just this gap.

And to me, I assess it as I look at her and I’m like, I I think that maybe she’s in her own head a little bit. Like, a baseball player that has the hips kind of, and she doesn’t wanna make a mistake. So she’s in her brain a little bit when she’s doing these interviews and I know when she was giving the Hamas this weekend, she’s talking about how, you know, Hamas has to needs to do its thing. And I’m like, I have word salad all the time. Right?

But I, you know, I I think that for some reason, rather than just letting it rip, She’s in her head a little bit. At least that’s my assessment from a distance. I’m wondering if somebody who’s like who has interviewed or who’s had FaceTime, like, what to you explains kind of this gap between her ability and her persona.

Yeah. I mean, letting it rip. I mean, I don’t know how many vice presidents I’ve seen do that who were named Joe Biden, to be honest with you. I mean, like, Mike Pence wasn’t letting it rip.

Dan Quail wasn’t letting it rip.

You know, I think we acknowledge that we are paying more attention to this vice president because of the historic role that she is occupying, but she is still a She’s a non traditional person in a traditional role.

For sure.

Right? The vice president’s job is to back up the president. So, like, this is not somebody who is going to be getting out in front of the president. This is not somebody who has equal footing with the president. This is somebody who is also the first person who looks like her to be doing this job.

And so we care a lot more about what it is that she is doing and how she is doing it. And frankly, I mean, we have to be honest about the fact that you know, given the concerns about the president’s age, like, this is somebody who we care about because we may have to care about them a lot more.

Right.

So there’s that. Here’s what I will say. You know, if we get in the way back machine to twenty twenty, I think that, you know, then vice presidential nominee Kamala Harris was absolutely helpful to this ticket in terms of raising money, in terms of galvanizing people, especially black voters, to turn out for this ticket in twenty twenty. The voter enthusiasm part of it all. Right?

I think that you’re gonna see her doing a lot of the heavy lifting headed into this year. I mean, again, the president of the United States is is four years older than he was. You know, the last time he was running.

So He’s a day older. Every day, we wake up.

Every day. So that means what does that mean? That means she’s hitting the campaign trail pretty hard. I mean, the same days that he’s hitting Philly in Atlanta. I think she’s she’s doing, Phoenix and then she’s going to Vegas.

So Arizona and Nevada also to crucial states, like, she is going to be a significant factor, I would say, in whether or not they are able to pull this off, but I would be really curious to know how much credit she gets for that versus how much blame she gets if they don’t win in November.

Yeah. I do have to fact check you on one thing. I think I do think Dick Cheney was letting it rip. Maybe not in a maybe not in a great way.

He was letting it rip. That’s true.

Maybe not in the way that we vice president to let it rip, but he was letting it rip. The credit and blame element I mean, I don’t know. What do you feel like the president’s team is stifling her? Do you think we need to see more of her? Do you think it’s different situations?

Do you think it’s like this is just a thankless job and because of the nature that I presidency and the fact that she’s a black woman and all these things kind of combining, make it almost impossible to have better PR outcomes? I don’t know. Like, how would you assess that?

Yes, but also, you know, how are we covering her as a media, you know, to say.

Right.

You know, when we hear voter saying, you know, well, where is she, what is she doing? We know where she is and what she’s doing. We get a message on our inbox every day saying where she is and where she is going. We are making choices about whether or not to cover those things. If voters are saying they do not know her, what is our responsibility to be introducing her to these people vis a vis, you know, actually seeing her doing the job.

But again, that is not something that we traditionally think about when we think about a vice president, like, I just don’t know how familiar people felt with, like I said, a Mike Pence or or the, you know, forty four other white men who had the job before she had it. How well did we feel like we knew those people, you know, questions of their likability were not really a thing. And so this kind of moving target now that we have somebody who

looks different doing this job. I think that also

says a lot about our political imagination as a country as well as who she is as a politician.

Yeah. I think both are happening. And the vice presidency is just kind of been a wasteland for people for a while now. I mean, Mike Pence didn’t even make it to Iowa. George H.

W. Bush the last one to actually come president Dan Quail tried to run for president failed, I guess Biden then didn’t become president immediately after what HW did, but he he does, eventually. So not after getting passed over. So it it’s a tough role either way. I wanna get your take on something else that’s out there in the chattering class and politics before I wanna do a little girls pass I’ll talk with you.

Josh Barrow wrote about this. Sonya Sotomayor had some health issues. We are, you know, now staring down the barrel of let’s just be honest. There’s a chance that Donald Trump’s president again. I don’t like to think about it either, but there’s a chance that he’s president again.

And, we, you know, saw the just horrible tragedy and timing of Ruth Bader Ginsburg’s death you know, at the end of twenty twenty. And so the question is, should Sonia Sotomayor step aside just because the stakes are so high? And give president Biden an opportunity to ensure that he could replace her with a judge that would you know, defend women’s reproductive rights, etcetera, defend, you know, voting rights, etcetera, etcetera. Where do you kind of fall on that question?

I think especially as the Supreme Court is coming in more into focus for Democrats and democratic voters, right, who are understanding elections have consequences and the Supreme Court is definitely a consequence of, you know, the twenty sixteen election. You know, it is a question. And the Ruth Bader Ginsburg of it all is, you know, hanging over Soni Sotomayor. I didn’t see folks looking to push Clarence Thomas out when, you know, Donald Trump was on you know, step aside so we can get a younger version of of you and it didn’t happen. Right?

So, I mean, you know, a lot of this is, and I actually talked about this on a on my most recent podcast episode. A lot of this is twenty twenty four fan fic. Right? We are wishing for the Supreme Court we wish we had. We are wishing for the election that we wish we

Yeah.

We are where we are. Right? And so, you know, I think this is a conversation that’s gonna happen because, you know, it is kind of part of our collective hand wringing as a democracy, what to do about the Supreme Court. Right? And so, you know, should that pressure necessarily fall on on this one justice to to step aside so that Joe Biden can kind of make a generational imprint on the court of of his own.

You know, I don’t know. That’s, again, not for me to say I don’t get to nominate Supreme Court justices or or or push them into retirement, but Right now, a a lot of that kinda chatter is feeling, like, fan fic. Much like, will Joe Biden throw Kamala Harris over the side? Well, not if he wants to win black women in November. So what are about.

Yeah. It’s also tough for an eighty one year old president who’s run for reelection to, to look at Sonia’s son of my arm and be like, oh, sorry girl. You’re a little too, you know, to get out there. It’s time for you to step aside. Yeah.

It’s tough. I don’t know. It is fanfic, but it’s also I think there’s a practical If you’re just able to kind of remove all of the personal elements, all of the identity elements, which you can’t, you know, but if you’re able to, you’d look at it and say, Okay. Well, ensuring we get a younger person in there on the court, ensuring that we’re having a Supreme Court fight in the fall where folks are talking about or making sure that these issues are in the news, I can see how it’s a it would be a benefit to Democrats. I’m not over here pushing Sony soda mylar out the door either, but I could see how it would just as a practical matter, be a benefit.

Yeah. You

got a big interview on Friday. You’re interviewing Megan Markle. I’ve got one. I I was gonna say, I know this is gonna any side you take of us, you’re gonna offend some people. I’m team Megan.

I’m Megan and Harry. I’ve been with Harry from the jump.

Oh, wow.

I do have to say though. I have one complaint with about the whole system. Okay. You know, I think they’re treated shabbily. I do not like the Mona Charen.

Screw all the royals. Don’t care. I’m happy with all the moves I’ve made, but If you’re gonna move to California and give the double bird to the royals, do we have to call you the Duchess of Sussex? Still. I don’t know.

I feel like we should be able to call you Megan now and Harry. I feel like I should be able to call him Harry now because he’d made a choice. So that would be my one one beef with them. I don’t know. As you’ve done prep on that, I guess that’s probably not gonna be an option for you to just just call her megs.

Unfortunately, definitely not an option. I will register your complaint, though.

You

know, and and and see and see where that goes. I mean

Something to consider.

I definitely will make your concerns known. Also, RIP to your insurance as well now because you have brought up the Duchess. Yeah.

Were you not team Harry? It seems like you’re you’re gonna interrupt me there. Were you?

No. No. Not at all. Not at all.

I was

just thinking about your mentions as you were you were sitting there talking about that. So

Okay. Yeah. You gotta pick us up. Like. I feel like everybody’s gotta pick a side of this one.

Speaking on things are gonna pick a side on before I lose you. So I’ve been noticing on your social media feed, a lot of Dawn’s daily content. The coach of the South Carolina women’s basketball team, probably the best team.

He undefeated undefeated South Carolina.

In the country where I took my daughter to go see The ninth ranked LSU Tigers, ladies basketball team defending National Champions and Angel Reese.

Sure.

We saw them on Saturday. We got Caitlin Clark out there all time leading score, making news. In credit. So what, can can you explain to me the the don are you are you in Don just pals or or is there something else happening there and kinda how do you that’s the tournament. Is is it paid back time for South Carolina or the Cox gonna gonna take this one or Caitlyn Clark?

How do you handicap it?

I mean, They certainly look like they’re on their way to championship number three. But, I mean, can we just have a moment for women’s college basketball though? I mean, I Let’s

do it.

I will tell I have followed this season more closely. It’s almost bracket time. I I know a lot of y’all know it’s time to fill out the brackets. I don’t know what I’m doing for my men’s bracket because I’ve barely watched any men’s games this year. I watched all women’s basketball this year, and I was so, it was so, so, so good.

I mean, Everybody watches women’s sports. Like, we just need to say it. And I love that you got to go to that game. I got to see Don Staley and Notre Dame’s team play in Paris back in November. It was incredible.

I mean, like, the energy around this game right now. I I am just loving it. My Dawn Staley fandom. She is a proud West Philadelphia, with Philadelphia is my adopted city. You know, I certainly root for her.

But even before that, I mean, this goes back to the dream team for me for her. I mean, she’s just has had such an incredible career. This woman is a winner. She’s a champion, and we love to see it. And the whole team is just they’re amazing.

You’ve wound me up now. And, I mean, March Madness cannot the other March, Memphis cannot come soon enough for me. So I’m ready. I’m ready.

I like Don Staley’s vibe after event. I do like her vibe a lot. I’ve I will, you know, I will be ready against her, and hopefully we’ll see another another surprise defeat, like, last year to LSU Target.

How many of those Kim Moki sweaters do you have, by the way? Do you do are you rocking? Are you down with the fashion?

So my husband kinda has Kim Mulkey’s haircut. Oh. And I was pushing very hard for Halloween. For Toulouse to be a tiger. Yeah.

And for my husband to be Kim Mulkey. Oh my god. You know, and for me to be his different l s u themed character, but he he he wouldn’t do it. So maybe next year.

There’s always next year.

There’s always next year for Halloween. So I I think that he’s a better fit for her vibe, but she’s got a lot of great outfits. I get to say just on the merits. And, obviously, the the women’s sports element is great. I was a big agitator for paying the college athletes.

Yes.

Hello?

You get a lot of push back on that and say, oh, it’s been ruined. The sports been ruined. It has been such a boon to women’s sports because now you got these these players that can stay Katelyn Clark and Angel Reese. They can now stay. So you get to have a relationship, not just with the coaches, but the players, and they, a, they get the compensation that they deserve, hello, free market capital is

okay. Hello?

But also, they get to stay around and so you can kinda build the, you know, the fandom builds. And I just think it’s been awesome for women’s college basketball, and I think that this is just kind of the start.

Agree. And you love to see these coaches really advocating for for these young women to get those deals. Right? And and and, you know, we’re coming up on equal payday. Like, it matters.

It matters.

Yeah. Get that check. Alright. Erin Haynes, we got one more segment coming. I got a special guest, the New York Times wrote about how Joe Biden’s super fans are underrepresented in the media, not on the nineteenth.

But underrepresented in the media, the Joe Biden fans are. And they’re

they’re definitely underrepresented over.

They’re underrepresented in the nineteenth. Okay. Okay. It’s happening everywhere. There who are they?

Nobody knows. You know, there are no stories about people going to diners to talk to Joe Biden superfans, but we have a Joe Biden superfan on this podcast. So we are gonna elevate their voice. We’re gonna center them. Aaron Hanes.

Thank you so much for hanging out. Let’s do it again soon.

Let’s do it again soon. Hang in there, my friend.

Please echo. The New York Times says Joe Biden’s super fans think the rest of America has lost its mind, but, That these fans occupy a lonely place in US politics, one said I feel like I’m the only one. Well, we don’t like it when people are marginalized. You know, we want people’s voice to be heard. We hear you out there, listeners who are also Joe Biden superfans, some of you, you know, who don’t feel like you’re getting the attention.

That these mega freaks are. And so today, I’ve got a special surprise for you. We’ve got a guest. You may know them. We’ll see we’ll see if you recognize them.

Or bringing in my friend John from North Jersey to talk about being a Joe Biden superfan. John Do you share the view of these voters? You know, the in the times, do you feel marginalized, disenfranchised by the media that your voice isn’t being heard right now as as a Joe Biden superfan?

I don’t read the times as much, you know, to be to be honest, switches. The the times, they get these pointy heads the time. Those are all recessions coming this month, no all recessions coming that month. I’m Ross Delta. Let me tell you about Nichie and go ahead.

Yeah. I’m more of a post guy. Alright. I’m a post guy. And I read that.

It’s all just it’s a scientist talk. Like, you know, that meep look, God love him. He’s one of my people. But, you know, that’s not my guy. I look at Joe, Joe, our guy, old Joe, the old guy.

Yeah.

He’s

been pretty good, man. He’s been pretty good, especially for an Irish.

Yeah. You’re within the whole time. You’re within the primary last time around and just long time Joe Biden?

You know, look. I’m not gonna lie to you. I liked a lot of some of the stuff the Bernie guy was talking about. I like, you know, sticking up for the workers and maybe taxing more of the billionaires. My grandmother.

She’s eighty nine years old god lover Maria Franchesca Ratiana. And she I I was worried sick all through COVID. Joe comes in, the vaccines get out, but co boom. COVID’s gone. You know, I don’t worry about my grandma’s mom’s now.

I don’t know if you pay much attention to macroeconomics, Tim. Do do do you guys pay attention to that?

I do. Yeah. We had a good we had an economist on yesterday. Yeah. We do.

Media household wealth in America of thirty seven percent. Did you know that? Thirty seven percent? But people don’t get it through their minds. Right?

So I was over at Sergio with my boys, Tony and Anthony the other day. Then we went in there. We’re gonna get some Gabbagool. And, you know, Tony is like, oh, the price of Gabbagool is up seventeen percent. And I said, sure.

Sure. It is. But, you know, you forgot to. You gotta understand. Your wages are up twenty percent.

It just That means you are doing better and the real price of that gabagool is actually going down for you. But people don’t realize this.

Yeah. That is good. The Galigula index. So overall for you, Joe Biden, just a a. You’re giving him an Big superfan of of Joe Biden.

No issues.

I think he’s been great. He’s been great. He’s a little low, but you know what? You know who else was old? Don Corlione.

He still got it done because he was wise and he knew when to go to the mattresses.

Well, I appreciate that. We had Dakota Galvin age twenty eight as the New York Times. We tried to get Dakota wasn’t available, but you know, here’s what he said. I feel like I’m the only one. Does anybody care that I exist for the house that his Joe Biden support Dakota is a great picture of him and the times with a with a Joe Biden cut out.

And I just think, John, you and Dakota, you guys are out there. We wanted to make sure you were seen And I appreciate I appreciate it.

So great to be with you, Tim. Thanks. First time on the show, first time, a long time.

Alright. Hey, for folks that didn’t quite catch on to the accent that’s Jonathan Last, our in house Biden Super fan, an editor. You can catch more from us on the next level, every Wednesday meet, JBL and Sarah Longwell be back tomorrow with somebody that you know and love right here on the board podcast. Peace.

You asked me why?

Just went on taller.

She asked me why.

Just went on to work.

Really regular. If I may

It’s bad, you know.

The Secret Podcast is produced by Katie Cooper with audio engineering and editing by Jason Brown.