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Don Lemon: Elon Is a Troll

March 26, 2024
Notes
Transcript
Elon Musk, for all his keyboard courage, couldn’t handle Don Lemon’s Q and A, but then sicced his Twitter minions on the ex-CNN host after their interview. Plus, a surprising take on Tucker—and a shout-out to Rachel Maddow and other MSNBC anchors speaking out against the Ronna McDaniel hire. Lemon joins Tim Miller.

show notes:

The Don Lemon Show 

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors and omissions. Ironically, the transcription service has particular problems with the word “bulwark,” so you may see it mangled as “Bullard,” “Boulart,” or even “bull word.” Enjoy!
  • Speaker 1
    0:00:08

    Hello, and welcome to the Secret Podcast. I am your host Tim Miller coming at you live from the Sears Robuck studio here in Los Angeles. Photo studio where I got my childhood picture taken. I’m a Don lemon. He’s in his living room.
  • Speaker 1
    0:00:20

    It’s a little warm there. It sounds like. How are you doing, Don? I’m great. It’s a little warm.
  • Speaker 2
    0:00:25

    You have to open the window. Maybe I should turn the fireplace off. Can we tell everyone this has been like a comedy of errors. Like, I can’t get into the thing, the microphone, the computer, the headphones, the dogs.
  • Speaker 1
    0:00:36

    The post cable life is a little different.
  • Speaker 3
    0:00:38

    I’m just
  • Speaker 1
    0:00:39

    I’m wondering, there’s some downsides. Right? You don’t have a team there kind of you know, doing your mic for you, but also maybe your synapses are firing in your brain, like, you know, is maybe do you feel like you’re seeing the world in Technicolor now. They’re pros and cons, right, to be an off the cable grind?
  • Speaker 2
    0:00:55

    I love it. Well, yeah, I guess it’s mostly pros. I get to do what I wanna do. I get to choose the content. I choose.
  • Speaker 2
    0:01:01

    I get to talk about what I want to talk about. I get to lean into what candidate I feel I’m feeling excited about. I get to, I get to be more transparent. So it’s mostly prose.
  • Speaker 1
    0:01:11

    I was thinking, and you’re doing, like, three hours every day on the morning. When you move to the morning?
  • Speaker 2
    0:01:16

    I moved to the morning, yeah, but that was a short, yeah, that was a short period of time. That was three six to nine. I didn’t know. I did. Yeah.
  • Speaker 2
    0:01:22

    But I did two hours a night at least for eight years on CNN.
  • Speaker 1
    0:01:27

    I mean, that’s a lot. Yeah. That’s a lot. Eventually, your brain had to be like, no. Uh-uh.
  • Speaker 1
    0:01:31

    I’m not I’m not I’m not working at a hundred percent.
  • Speaker 2
    0:01:34

    This is your brain on cable. Is that kind of thing? Yeah. It was a lot.
  • Speaker 1
    0:01:38

    Okay. We I’ve got a theme for this show. Wanna talk about Elon, and it’s within the theme. And the theme is how are we supposed to? How are people in the media that care about truth?
  • Speaker 1
    0:01:48

    Like you, supposed to deal with Naga politicians and Naga platforms. You have the Don Lemon show. It was on X for a minute. It’s still on but you’re also on YouTube. You’re on IHeart.
  • Speaker 1
    0:02:00

    How do we reach mega voters? How do you deal with mega politicians? So I think a lot of times progressive you know, commenters. I think that this is a lot easier question than it is. Like, don’t platform them.
  • Speaker 1
    0:02:11

    But it’s it’s actually kind of a complicated question. And wanna start with Rhonda, but I’m I’m curious what your biggest picture’s thoughts are on that before I get to Rhonda.
  • Speaker 2
    0:02:19

    Oh, do you mean what happens with the Magga folks? What do you do?
  • Speaker 1
    0:02:21

    How do you do? How how are what are we supposed to with them.
  • Speaker 2
    0:02:24

    Well, I always had this policy that, you know, I didn’t like to give a platform to people who were liars or insurrectionists or, you know, who are just apologists And that didn’t really offer any insight or didn’t educate the viewer at all. That was my policy, especially when I was at night. And for most of my years, at CNN. I do think that you have to hear from, obviously, I hate to say all sides. Right?
  • Speaker 2
    0:02:48

    I don’t believe in, like, fake balance. Again, I don’t believe in putting
  • Speaker 1
    0:02:51

    people on. All sides matter.
  • Speaker 2
    0:02:52

    Yeah. All sides matter. I don’t believe in putting people on who are liars, basically, and who are election deniers. But you do have to hear from, you know, Republicans and Democrats I am an independent. I’m not registered to vote, you know, under any political party.
  • Speaker 2
    0:03:06

    I think it’s a sort of a case by case basis. But when it comes to Magga, we’re in a whole different territory now, Tim. Yeah. And I think we have to be careful about who we put on the air because people come on the air just in order to lie. And that that is a new phenomenon within the trump era.
  • Speaker 3
    0:03:22

    Yeah.
  • Speaker 1
    0:03:22

    I wanna dig into that a little more. Let’s start with Rhonda. So NBC hires Rhonda. Have everybody knows about this, Rhonda. Romney was her name, right, before she changed it to make Donald Trump happy.
  • Speaker 1
    0:03:32

    And, there was kind of an unprecedented backlash among the on air talent. I hate the word talent, but among that, you know, on air journalists, for NBC, I wanna play one clip that really struck me, from Rachel Matt out last night. Let’s listen
  • Speaker 4
    0:03:47

    If you care what I think about this, I will tell you the fact that miss McDaniel is on the payroll at NBC News. To me, that is inexplicable. I mean, you wouldn’t you wouldn’t you wouldn’t hire a like a a wise guy. You wouldn’t hire a made man like a mobster to work at a DA’s office. Right?
  • Speaker 4
    0:04:07

    You you wouldn’t hire a pickpocket to work as a TSA screener. And so I I find the decision to put her on the payroll ex inexplicable.
  • Speaker 3
    0:04:17

    And I
  • Speaker 4
    0:04:17

    and I hope they will reverse their decision. And it’s not about you know, Democratic party, Republican party, it’s not about partisanship, it’s not about right versus left. It’s not about being a political professional versus some other kinds of person. It’s not about being mean or nice to journalists. It’s not about just being associated with Donald Trump and his time in the Republican Party.
  • Speaker 4
    0:04:38

    It’s not even about lying or not lying. It’s about our system of government and undermining elections and going after democracy. As an ongoing project.
  • Speaker 1
    0:04:50

    What did you think about that?
  • Speaker 2
    0:04:52

    I watched it live, and I think it was an amazing commentary. Quite frankly, I kept thinking if I was in cable news, this is something that I would do. There are very few people who have the balls to do what she did and to stand up to management. Most people just wanna, you know, I Hey, I don’t wanna say anything. I don’t wanna rock the boat.
  • Speaker 2
    0:05:08

    I have this big paycheck. You know, I I’m afraid of not getting access to certain people. I’m afraid that people are going to think that I’m partisan. There’s a lot of that going on all over, not just in cable, but in broadcast as well. And I’m sure probably in print or what have you.
  • Speaker 2
    0:05:22

    Bravo to Rachel Meadows because she spoke the truth, and she did it in a way that made people understand the dangers of and I hate that word platforming, but the dangers of elevating and giving, amplifying is a better word. Amplifying the voice of someone who is really a pathological liar. Someone who has encouraged and supported someone who inspired an insurrection, someone who went along with a fake elector scheme, someone who
  • Speaker 3
    0:05:50

    is part of trying to
  • Speaker 2
    0:05:50

    overthrow the will of the people of a free and fair election. So what I thought of that, I thought it was right on. And I kept thinking quite honestly, Tim, what head will be first to roll at NBC for making that hire. They can hire who they want. It’s their ball field.
  • Speaker 2
    0:06:08

    Seems like Ron, I might be
  • Speaker 1
    0:06:10

    the first head to roll.
  • Speaker 2
    0:06:11

    Well, I mean, I meant in management because someone had to make the decision. I mean, look, if someone offered you a ton of money to become a contributor, would you say no? No. I’m just saying it’s not Rona McDaniel’s fault. Rona McDaniel is who who she is, right, as I just pointed out.
  • Speaker 2
    0:06:26

    But, I mean, what were her role there. She was just a living, breathing example of an insult to all the journalists at NBC and MSNBC.
  • Speaker 1
    0:06:34

    Yeah. Pretty it’s pretty boss move by Rachel. She’s like, I’m just gonna work one night, then I’m gonna spend half of my one night this week making fun of my bosses. I do have to give us credit for that. Making fun of me wrong attacking my boss.
  • Speaker 2
    0:06:46

    Yeah. I think she attacked them.
  • Speaker 1
    0:06:48

    Yeah. Attacking their judgment, criticizing their judgment.
  • Speaker 2
    0:06:50

    Well, she held up a mirror. Yeah. I don’t think she attacked them. I think that look, I think that she was very kind to Rashida Jones. And she said, you know, she believes that Rashida made the right decision eventually.
  • Speaker 2
    0:07:01

    I’m not sure about it first. Like, the first part, she said, you know, after there was outrage among the ranks, Rashida made the right decision, which was great. I I commend Rashida for that. And then she said, it takes a big person to realize that they make made a mistake in reverse course. And so I think she was saying Rashida did it you guys should do it, and you guys can do it.
  • Speaker 2
    0:07:21

    So I don’t think she was insulting them. She was trying to appeal to their better angels.
  • Speaker 1
    0:07:26

    Yeah. That’s worth mentioning wasn’t just Rachel. It’s my fellow former Republican Scarborough and Nicole Wallace. Also had similar commentaries Rachels was just the most pointed. Here’s the thing, though.
  • Speaker 2
    0:07:35

    I’m so tied.
  • Speaker 1
    0:07:36

    In Jack Todd. Yeah. Ron is kind of an easy call because she was among the most shameless liars when it comes to the, you know, the election for denialism and and apologies for Donald Trump. But here’s the problem, Donna, like, okay. So if you’re a news network, we can take it out from cable, just anything.
  • Speaker 1
    0:07:52

    If you’re a news organization of any kind, any platform. And one party has become, you know, completely enthrall to a pathological liar who tried to overturn the government. And everybody supports them at some level in that party, but that’s one of the two major parties in our system. What do you do? Like, where is the line?
  • Speaker 1
    0:08:12

    You know, do you have Mike Lee on your network? I might Mike Johnson is the speaker of the house now. He was he was part of the effort to overturn the election. How do you deal with these people?
  • Speaker 2
    0:08:22

    As I said, it’s a case by case basis because Mike Johnson is a speaker of house and you wanna hear from him, and you wanna hear from people who have roles in the government. You have to do that, but you have fact check them in real time, or you tape them, and then offer your viewer, you tell them, or whomever are your listener. This is a truth. They were lying about this. But Ronald McDaniel is not even popular among the Magafokes, even though she helped him out.
  • Speaker 2
    0:08:44

    I mean, she’s not even popular among Republicans. Like, she’s kind of on the outs of the party. She just she got out of it. Like Donald Trump said no more. I’m gonna put someone else in.
  • Speaker 2
    0:08:53

    So that’s why I don’t really understand that decision. It’s not a tough decision when it comes to Ronald McDaniel. But when it comes to other people, you know, you don’t have to put the Matt Gates to the world on. I’m sorry. You can talk about people.
  • Speaker 2
    0:09:04

    You can talk about folks. You can talk about their policies. You can explain what they’re doing, but you do not have to put them on. If they’re only going to come on and hijack the broadcast or whatever it is that you’re you’re doing and lie to people. It’s very simple.
  • Speaker 2
    0:09:19

    You’re offering a service And if people aren’t getting anything from that service, then why do it? You know, I I came to buy a cake and you’re trying to sell me a pizza. That’s not you know, that’s not what you do. But also what I would tell people all the time when they came on and they tried to lie, and they they wouldn’t, you know, pay attention or, you know, they try to hijack the show is that it is not a right for you to peer on any network on this network that I’m on. It is a privilege for you to get to speak directly to the American people and so many of the American people.
  • Speaker 2
    0:09:53

    And so if you’re going to come on and if you wanna have that privilege, then you have to respect the people and not lie to them and you have to respect the network and you have to respect me. Otherwise, I don’t have to have you on.
  • Speaker 1
    0:10:04

    Do you worry though? I hear I totally agree with everything you said. I just wonder how you think about the echo chamber problem at all. And sometimes I feel like not as much anymore. Like back in twenty sixteen, it made sense.
  • Speaker 1
    0:10:14

    Like, I just worked for Jeb, you know, networks that have me on, it’d be like, hey, you’ll have an Obama person and a former Jeb person and we’ll argue. And sometimes we’ll agree on things and those will disagree. That made sense. Right? I feel like then that continued to do the Trump era where people are like, hey.
  • Speaker 1
    0:10:27

    We’ll have Jen Saki and Tim Miller on. And it’s like me and Jen agree on him I mean, like, we don’t agree on the tax cuts. Right? But, like, we, like, on the core question about the guy that was the president at that time. And now I was running for president.
  • Speaker 1
    0:10:39

    Again, we agree And so don’t you need to represent the view of Mega World that, like, if you’re if you’re in political news, like, don’t you need to represent their view degree and not just have Never trumpers be the token, you know, whatever?
  • Speaker 2
    0:10:53

    Of course. I I I don’t think you’re hearing what I’m saying. You can have people who represent the Magga party, but the the and they have to Is
  • Speaker 1
    0:10:58

    there anybody that represents them that doesn’t live? Now now we’re in the Mobius strip, you know? Now this is the question. Is who is that? Who is that?
  • Speaker 1
    0:11:06

    Who represents the Magga party that is not a buyer? That’s the question.
  • Speaker 2
    0:11:10

    Well, that’s really tough. I mean, you
  • Speaker 3
    0:11:12

    know, if
  • Speaker 1
    0:11:13

    you have Kellyanne Conway and can you have Sarah Sanders. Can you have Kelly Mack and Amy? But it’s like, I’ve I mean
  • Speaker 2
    0:11:19

    It’s just very interesting because, you know, the Kelly and Conway, I remember being on actually made the switch from Ted Cruz to Donald Trump, and I was like, okay, wow, I don’t get that to me. It was, like, over, like, a light switch.
  • Speaker 1
    0:11:30

    It happened to one green room, I think. I was there. I was like, she just got a phone she got a phone call and changed her mind. I we argued in the green room.
  • Speaker 2
    0:11:37

    Yeah. I remember reading the blue cards, and it said, you know, Kelly and Conway Trump adviser, and I said to my producers, hey, guys, are you listening to the control room? You will need to fix Kelly Ann’s blue card because, it says Trump But she’s, you know, she’s a super pack or whatever thing for Ted Cruz. And then she looked over at me. She goes, no, that’s right.
  • Speaker 2
    0:11:55

    And I went, now you’re for trump. She goes, yes. And I went, god. I don’t really understand this whole politics thing. Like, it went overnight.
  • Speaker 2
    0:12:02

    Kayleigh McEnany was someone that we put on they needed someone on a show called get to the point, which eventually became my staff. They were doing a test show on the Bulwark, and it was called get to the point. They needed like someone who was anti trump or Republican who was cute and blonde or whatever. And so they put her on.
  • Speaker 1
    0:12:20

    Yeah.
  • Speaker 2
    0:12:21

    She came on, I think, as an anti trump, and then I she realized, like, being pro trump, got her more, you know, recognition. And so then she became pro trump, but it’s it’s interesting how people sort of with no resumes, made their resumes, and then moved to the further the line in the trump era.
  • Speaker 1
    0:12:37

    We’ve never get this first hard question, which is we don’t know what to do. We we we both agree that we should have the mega folks represented, but we don’t maybe we should get a mega AI to to represent them. I don’t know.
  • Speaker 2
    0:12:48

    It’s one of those things you know it when you see it. Right? You know when someone is like, well, they say you I don’t know. I can’t really give you the definition of photography, but I know it when I see it. Now I can’t really give you the definition of who you should have on, but you know it when you see it, you know it when at least people are trying to be practical, they’re trying to tell the truth.
  • Speaker 2
    0:13:05

    No one is gonna it’s politics. Right? They’re gonna lie to you or I shouldn’t say they’re gonna lie to you, but they’re gonna, you know, embellish. They’re gonna have their talking points that’s all normal stuff. But if people, like, come on and they flat out lie, I think you need to change your, you know, thinking about putting them on.
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    0:13:26

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    0:13:57

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    0:14:14

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    0:14:26

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    0:14:38

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    0:15:02

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  • Speaker 1
    0:15:19

    Now it’s like, okay. So the first question is how to deal with the politicians. Now it’s like, okay. How do you reach the voters? That are driving on this.
  • Speaker 1
    0:15:25

    How do you reach the mega people? I I saw an interesting stat yesterday. You know, how people are always like, oh, Trump has some problems within a Republican party. It’s being showed in the Haley vote in primary. There was a poll yesterday, or a couple days ago, and it asked, you know, Republican voters whether they’re happy with trumping the leader of the party.
  • Speaker 1
    0:15:42

    And it also asked what kind of media they consume. And among people that only consume Maga Media, one hundred percent were happy with Trump, among the people that also consume other media is like seventy percent. Right? So, you know, you can see just how much of it is a media. Yeah.
  • Speaker 1
    0:15:56

    I mean, some of this is chicken and egg, but how much of the the media drives this. So, I mean, it seems to me like your effort to do an x and to get with Elon. I’ve listened to some of your other interviews was, like, some attempt to break that bubble. Is that right? I like, what are your thoughts
  • Speaker 3
    0:16:11

    on that?
  • Speaker 1
    0:16:11

    Before we get into the details of the Elon interview, like, that’s the biggest picture. How do you break into that bubble? Do you have thoughts on that?
  • Speaker 2
    0:16:17

    You have to be willing to go into the lion’s den. And not many people are willing to do that. I am, you know, I see Pete Buttigieg doing it all the time. Even see Chris Christie doing, you know, going on, of course, he’s running for office. So he’s going on to speak to Democrats, what have you.
  • Speaker 2
    0:16:31

    And I think he’s, like, becoming part of no labels now. So we’ll see where that goes. Unless you go into the lion’s den and be willing to get slaughtered as I was, then you’re not going to reach those people. We’ll go in-depth about Elon, you know, a little bit later. I’m sure.
  • Speaker 2
    0:16:47

    But even Elon admitted that he hadn’t really watched me on CNN. Basically, his idea of who I was was watching me on, you know, probably Fox or on conservative Bulwark, and it’s just sound bites of me where I’m a character or is a caricature of Don Lemann. But the interesting thing is is that when you go in to try to reach those folks, they don’t wanna hear what you have to say. And if you hold up a mirror to them and you hold up back to them, they’re like Whoa. Wait.
  • Speaker 1
    0:17:14

    Wait. Wait.
  • Speaker 2
    0:17:15

    Yours is what are you doing? Yeah. It’s a fake news. And so it’s like, well, Maybe we’re in an era now where it’s just maybe it’s just not possible. I don’t know.
  • Speaker 2
    0:17:24

    But I mean, what you’re saying, think about what you’re saying. One hundred percent of the people who here, Donald, try to listen just just to conservative media. They love him. And then what did you say? It was like seventy percent.
  • Speaker 1
    0:17:35

    So, yeah. And if we could take off thirty percent of those other people, that that’s a win we’re in a much better situation. Right? Like, you know what I mean? Yeah.
  • Speaker 2
    0:17:42

    What I’m just saying though is that the their minds are made up. It’s a fait accompli
  • Speaker 1
    0:17:47

    Yeah.
  • Speaker 2
    0:17:47

    On the other end, you know, I have never seen so many people who are so overrepresented in polling. And everyone’s like, oh, we need to hear from the Maga people. What do they think? We hear from them all the time. Like, every single hole that we get there.
  • Speaker 2
    0:18:02

    This is what Maga thinks. Every single focus group that we do, this is every single, you know, group thing that we go to get opinions. It’s always a man of people. They’re overrepresented. So how much more do we need to know about them?
  • Speaker 2
    0:18:14

    It tells you exactly how they feel. Whatever Donald Trump wants, That’s what they do. Do you ever watch it or watch those little skits at the top of the Jimmy Kimbell show where they’ll ask people
  • Speaker 1
    0:18:25

    seen the Jordan clapper versions of these. I don’t watch Jimmy Kim. Well, Jordan glover does. Yeah.
  • Speaker 2
    0:18:28

    Okay. There are different versions of these. But the ones I find the most effective is that they ask the people the same questions about Joe Biden. Like, they’ll use what Donald Trump
  • Speaker 3
    0:18:38

    has done. Right? They’ll say, can
  • Speaker 2
    0:18:38

    you believe, you know, Joe Biden paid off porn star and hid it from his wife while she was pregnant. They’ll go, oh my god. It’s so horrible. And then they’ll, you know, ask a couple of those questions and they go back, go, I’m sorry. I got my research wrong.
  • Speaker 2
    0:18:51

    I met Donald Trump on all those questions. And then they’ll ask Donald the question using Donald Trump, and they will make an excuse for him. And so I just don’t think it’s a winnable situation right now. I think those people have made up their minds. It’s very cult like.
  • Speaker 1
    0:19:04

    It is. One more on this. I’m I’m also willing to go into the lion’s den. And by the way, I know that there’s some Secret Podcast that listen to And so, you can invite me. I’ll go.
  • Speaker 1
    0:19:12

    I’ll go and do. I’ll go fight with these people. I’ll go fight with these people. I’m happy to fight with a daily wire person or with a four four canvas is gonna need guests for her new show now that she’s been canceled from the daily wire.
  • Speaker 3
    0:19:23

    Right?
  • Speaker 1
    0:19:24

    So I’m happy
  • Speaker 2
    0:19:24

    to go free speech for me, but not for the candidate.
  • Speaker 1
    0:19:28

    John, in fairness, she did fifty seven anti Semitic statements before Ben finally hired. You know, he has a very strict rule. You know, you can only do blood libel against Jews, like, eighty two times before he says no more.
  • Speaker 2
    0:19:41

    I will go in, but I find out I don’t mind going into the Magga, to whatever. I just don’t like, you know, it gets personal. Sometimes they start taking personal things like, oh, you, you know, you you’re
  • Speaker 3
    0:19:53

    gay.
  • Speaker 2
    0:19:53

    And they’re like, what does that have to do with any you know what I mean?
  • Speaker 1
    0:19:56

    So I I’ve been dying to I’m curious your take on this though. So then is there a line to that too? Going to line since your old colleague Chris Cuomo went on Tucker. I watched it. I have to say I don’t recommend anybody go to Tucker’s platform
  • Speaker 3
    0:20:07

    that’s not comfortable because he literally promotes
  • Speaker 1
    0:20:07

    white nationalist thought and surrogates, but It was a fascinating show, but I just I was sitting there going. I don’t know. It was different than you and the Elon thing because in the UN Elon thing, you’re conducting the interview. And Chris went and did the interview with Tucker. I don’t know.
  • Speaker 1
    0:20:23

    What do you what did you think about that?
  • Speaker 2
    0:20:25

    I I didn’t watch it. I have just a little bit texted with Tucker. Look, I don’t have anything against Tucker. I don’t really know him that well.
  • Speaker 1
    0:20:34

    Well, the white Jonathan Last, and I assume you don’t like.
  • Speaker 2
    0:20:36

    Yes. Yes. That that was getting to that. The things that come out of his mouth I don’t agree with, I find most of them reprehensible. I think the only communication that I’ve had with him is you know, we got let go of the network on the same day.
  • Speaker 2
    0:20:49

    How odd that is sort of, but an interesting, you know, how the world works. And he wanted me to come on the show And I said, you know, let me figure out what I’m gonna do. I don’t mind going into the lion’s den. And what else? He said, welcome to ex when I when I agreed to be a distribution partner with him.
  • Speaker 2
    0:21:07

    And that was about it just a couple of times. So, you know, I don’t have anything against him. I don’t agree with anything he says, pretty much.
  • Speaker 1
    0:21:13

    But you thought about you thought about going on the show? Are you still thinking about
  • Speaker 2
    0:21:15

    I did. I thought about going on the show. I actually thought about doing things with him, like, you know, sort of, Buckleyley and Baldwin. And I was like, you know, that would be great for Tucker and I to do that if he could really do it from a place where we’re trying to educate people instead of beating up on other where he’s actually trying to learn about me and I’m trying to learn about him, which was my attitude going into the HELOC thing. But I didn’t watch the Tucker thing with Chris, I feel that when you have these sort of, let’s say, meetings of the mind or you have these sort of tighten clashes, whatever you wanna call them.
  • Speaker 1
    0:21:46

    Right. That’s very generous to tucker.
  • Speaker 2
    0:21:48

    There are things you have to get off your chest first.
  • Speaker 3
    0:21:50

    Yep.
  • Speaker 2
    0:21:50

    Because then you’re not being honest with your audience and you’re not being honest with you’re not being honest with his audience and him. You said this. I found this offensive, or even if you just, you know, say, why would you say something like this? Why do you believe this? And I would expect the same thing from Tucker whomever, even if Elon was interviewing me.
  • Speaker 2
    0:22:10

    I would expect that I would have to answer questions about what I’ve said, what I’ve done, what I’ve put out there. And if I can’t defend myself in the moment, for something that came out of my own mouth, then who am I? What am I? You know what I’m saying? It can’t just be nicely nice.
  • Speaker 2
    0:22:26

    That’s not real.
  • Speaker 1
    0:22:27

    That was my issue.
  • Speaker 2
    0:22:28

    Was it nicey nice?
  • Speaker 1
    0:22:29

    Oh, it’s a little joshy. And I texted Chris about this. I’m not doing anything that it’s illegal. I was I wish he would’ve went at him a little more. And and I think his perspective was like, well, I wanted to kinda draw it out and have a real conversation.
  • Speaker 1
    0:22:38

    And maybe that’s just not my makeup. I don’t know. I’m happy to go into the lion’s den, but I’m gonna roar.
  • Speaker 2
    0:22:44

    You’re the same. Okay.
  • Speaker 1
    0:22:45

    Same. I’m not going into the lion’s den and doing this. Like, oh, well, well, we both have kids and that’s nice. And it’s like, yeah, I gotta We both have kids, but you’re the one that is, you know, doing apologia and the promoting January sixth terrorist to attack the capital and white replacement theory. And so I We’re not friends, actually.
  • Speaker 2
    0:23:01

    Yeah. The great replacement theory, and and you don’t understand how the great replacement theory is really sort of a it was a Jewish trope, and then you’re using it now as for Democrats to say that same thing are happening with, like, what would you call Latino invasion or Hispanic invasion? Like, it’s like, but they can’t answer for that. And and even what with Elon about Duke University and DeI, again, we’ll get into that. But I would I would go on to Tucker, I think.
  • Speaker 2
    0:23:24

    I would consider going on to Tucker, and I would go into the lion’s den. I we should all welcome that.
  • Speaker 1
    0:23:28

    I think Tucker might be too bad faith for it. I think he might be as demonstrated over time that he’s not actually trying to have a genuine conversation. You know what I mean?
  • Speaker 2
    0:23:37

    That would have to be the agreement for with me and with him. And if it and if it turns out to not be that, then I think we would end it, but Kara Swisher, as you know, has the same feeling as you do about that. We’ve Karen and I have this conversation all the time. We had it this summer when I was trying to figure it out. I said, people trying to get me to work with Tucker They want us to do events, a whole host of things.
  • Speaker 2
    0:23:57

    And she said she doesn’t believe. She believes his bad faith, and he’s too toxic and that it would rub off on me. That’s what she said. Would get more purchase out of it than I would. That’s what she says.
  • Speaker 1
    0:24:06

    I don’t know if I agree that about the Elon Convo. It might be on your side of it because of the nature of the conversation. But since you mentioned, let’s listen to your exchange with him about great replacement theory.
  • Speaker 2
    0:24:14

    The great replacement theory is, a neo nazi trope. It’s in the neo nazi manifesto. Send the Turner diaries referenced by the Buffalo mass shooter, in his manifesto where ten people, black people were murdered in Buffalo. His actual title is a Christchurch shooter’s manifesto. Fifty one people in the Muslim mosque were murdered.
  • Speaker 2
    0:24:34

    Twenty three people, murdered in El Paso by a shooter who used the same language that you use in that manifesto when you say Hispanic invasion. Is that not
  • Speaker 5
    0:24:43

    I didn’t say Hispanic invasion. And you tweeted
  • Speaker 3
    0:24:44

    you quoted a tweet that said that
  • Speaker 2
    0:24:44

    called it a Hispanic
  • Speaker 5
    0:24:49

    invasion. If I quote something, it doesn’t mean I agree with anything ever again, it’s just something that I want, I think this is something worth people should, consider.
  • Speaker 1
    0:24:59

    I just think we should consider that we’re being invaded. I don’t actually agree.
  • Speaker 3
    0:25:03

    I’m
  • Speaker 2
    0:25:03

    just asking questions.
  • Speaker 1
    0:25:04

    Yeah. This was my I thought it was a great interview. I think we should watch it. You know, obviously, people you catch the clips on Twitter. I saw an x, whatever.
  • Speaker 1
    0:25:11

    I went back and relaunched the whole thing last night. And as a full hour, I kind of recommend it because you can see him getting more and more agitated over time. I’m like, it was at that moment was mo where I was the most wanting to yell through the compute. You know, when you’re interview, you’re yelling to the computer. It’s like, no.
  • Speaker 1
    0:25:27

    You’re not just wanting people to consider it. You’re promoting this. Like, you have the biggest platform in the world And it would be insane to think that, like, the souls burger publisher would put something that he isn’t sure is true he just wants you to consider on the front page of the New York Times and just be like, consider we’re being invaded. Our, you know, Arthur Salzberger’s idea at three AM when he’s on ketamine. Like, you have her obligation.
  • Speaker 1
    0:25:51

    And he just doesn’t seem to take that obligation seriously at all. And was that ear take away, basically?
  • Speaker 2
    0:25:57

    He doesn’t believe he has an obligation. He doesn’t. He thinks that it’s this weird sort of hybrid, wild, wild, but maybe we had maybe we had some content moderation rules. I don’t know. It was shocking to me that he, in my estimation, didn’t think that he had any response ability for the truth, any responsibility, for facts, any responsibility, for hate speech, and any responsibility at all to sort of moderate the platform.
  • Speaker 2
    0:26:22

    And as you said, you talk about Solzberger and back to the Tucker conversation. Tucker is a big figure, but Elon Musk is a bigger figure. He’s really too big to ignore. He’s too important to ignore. He’s kind of Henry Ford meets Rupert Murdoch, meets Howard Hughes, meets John Rockefeller, and he’s done some extremely impressive and innovative things, but he is also very, very, very dangerous.
  • Speaker 2
    0:26:47

    And I think unfortunately for him, when presented with the evidence of what he has done and what he’s doing, It’s shocking to him because he can’t explain it. He’s not very good in person with people who are holding him accountable.
  • Speaker 1
    0:27:03

    It couldn’t look you in the eye.
  • Speaker 2
    0:27:04

    No. And he became increasingly uncomfortable and tense over the conversation because I was just Tim, the questions were not hard. I mean, come on.
  • Speaker 1
    0:27:13

    No. I mean, honestly, I have a couple notes for you. I was sitting there watching. I was like, come on, done. Like, stick it to him.
  • Speaker 2
    0:27:18

    But that was before I get too far off, you know, track of whatever the point I was making, that was intentional. I wanted very simple questions. I didn’t want people to think I was attacking him. I wanted people to get to know about him and get to know about me. And the questions were wors it with a piece of paper.
  • Speaker 2
    0:27:39

    Why did you say this? Quote, these are your own words. I didn’t say that. I didn’t, like, he didn’t quite do it that way, but I never was gonna say, yes, you did. Where’s the evidence of this?
  • Speaker 2
    0:27:49

    Well, People in the in the comment section will put it and I was like, well, that’s really not an answer. The point I was making is that man to man He’s this very important, you know, gazillionaire who talks shit about me all the time. But yet, face to face when I was this far from him as I am to this camera,
  • Speaker 3
    0:28:11

    he could not tell me how he felt about me.
  • Speaker 2
    0:28:11

    He couldn’t defend himself. But afterwards, he goes on to Twitter and encourages his, you know, apologist to attack me. He is a keyboard warrior. He is an internet troll now, and he is afraid to confront me or talk to me man to man. He could’ve said whatever he wanted to say to me man to man instead of running away saying, oh, I have a meeting or going back behind his keyboard where he has keyboard courage and not courage in person to get people to attack me or to attack me myself or by saying, it turns out this isn’t what I want.
  • Speaker 2
    0:28:53

    I’m taking my marbles and I’m going home. Right? Yeah. If you are that strong of a person and you’re that important, why not say, Hey, man. I didn’t agree with Don Lemann, but this is why I have him on the platform because we need to hear all voices.
  • Speaker 2
    0:29:07

    In that interview, if he felt that way, it wasn’t. I felt like he was attacking me, Okay. I that’s how I came away from it, but still, we need to have these conversations that he doesn’t have the EQ for that. He doesn’t like to be confronted. And I think it’s very obvious.
  • Speaker 2
    0:29:22

    I’m shocked that so many people are defending him.
  • Speaker 1
    0:29:24

    No. And he doesn’t wanna have conversations.
  • Speaker 2
    0:29:26

    He doesn’t.
  • Speaker 1
    0:29:27

    Right? Like, he doesn’t. He wants to shit post, and he doesn’t want people to criticize him. And and it’s obvious that Twitter is throttling criticisms of Elon and test and all that. And he says he’s for free speech.
  • Speaker 1
    0:29:38

    It’s like, well, you know, and it’s obvious they’re doing these things.
  • Speaker 2
    0:29:41

    And they’re what do you call it? Shadow banning people and throttling, meaning it they are suppressing content. And, I mean, it just went on my thing. Like, look, I have no, but I could never prove it. I’m sure if I looked at their analytics, and maybe they could I’m sure they were throttling my stuff afterwards because he just probably didn’t wanna see it on his site.
  • Speaker 2
    0:29:57

    My friend said, that’s what I would do.
  • Speaker 1
    0:29:59

    Why’d you stay on? I’m still on too. I get people get mad at me, but I wanna know what you’re on.
  • Speaker 2
    0:30:03

    Well, I’m on now because again, I want people to I’m not afraid to be on it. Don’t have to promote it, you know, if if I don’t want to.
  • Speaker 1
    0:30:10

    You don’t worry that, like, lends your credibility to him or whatever or that you’re by being on your helping him maintain some influence over this town square. And if we, like, put him into some Magaghetto of weirdos and free and they wouldn’t have as much influence if everybody left. Like, that would be the counterargument.
  • Speaker 2
    0:30:29

    Well, listen, people can feel that way if they want. The reason I went into it is because It’s a big platform. It’s and people are still on it like you and like me. Although I I went back to it because of this. I’d stopped, posting or paying attention to it.
  • Speaker 2
    0:30:44

    But I think it’s huge. It is too big and too important of a platform to seed it to extremists. And but it appears that’s what it’s becoming, and I think it’s unless he changes course and unless he starts to listen to people like me and people like you, and he starts to, you know, not throw out life stuff and to really engage with people like us, then it’s just gonna become a platform just for extremists and election deniers and mega. And really, it’s just gonna be and people who just pat elon musk on the on the back and, you know, go, oh, you’re so great. I love you so much.
  • Speaker 2
    0:31:15

    So why am I on it? I’m on it. You know, one, because I want people to know that I lived up to my side of the bargain and I’m still living up to it.
  • Speaker 1
    0:31:23

    I also think people don’t understand there. The it’s not as if it’s not as black and white. You know, it’s not like there’s only people that are totally Elon Minions or people that are repulsed by them. There are persuadable people out there, and it’s important that they hear from other voices besides Elon, you know? I just is.
  • Speaker 2
    0:31:40

    It’s true. Listen. I don’t again, I have nothing against Elon Musk set the stuff that he puts out there and which I asked him about, which I questioned him about, and he couldn’t answer for a lot of it and or his answers were sort of nonsensical for much of it. And but he also had some very good answers things, and I understood him. I mean, you know, when he talked about why you use ketamine.
  • Speaker 2
    0:32:02

    Okay. It’s for depression. People do it. I’ve had drug guided therapy before. I have suffered from depression.
  • Speaker 2
    0:32:08

    I am on SSR eyes. So look, those things I thought were interesting, and that was a meeting of the minds. And there were other things that we discussed and other answers that he had that I thought were completely fine. And they may not have been what, you know, something that I agreed with. But, okay, I get it.
  • Speaker 2
    0:32:23

    That’s your conservative. You’re libertarian or whatever it is. You say you are, and that’s how you feel. But I just think Tim when people say they want us on those platforms and they wanna hear from people with diverse opinions, I think that they’re in such echo chambers, and this is kinda goes back to, you know, cable news or whatever. They’re in such echo chambers that when they actually hear the other side and they hear truth and facts, it is just so anathema to them that they’re like, Wait.
  • Speaker 2
    0:32:50

    What? And they automatically think that you’re lying or you have an agenda just because. And that’s not necessarily. So it’s just that they’re used two people feeding them the line all the time and agreeing with their world perspective and their point of view so much that when they hear another one, it just freaks them out. And I think that’s what happened with eon.
  • Speaker 1
    0:33:12

    Alright. A few other just topics. I just wanna get your real quick thoughts on things that I’ve learned like. I wanna know what Don lemon thinks about this. The data around the fact that Joe Biden and Democrats are losing altitude with black voters that
  • Speaker 3
    0:33:23

    Robert f Kennedy Junior is
  • Speaker 1
    0:33:24

    pulling pretty well with Bulwark voters, younger black voters are upset about that. What do you attribute it to?
  • Speaker 2
    0:33:31

    What do you attribute that to? I attribute it to that people feel that, again, that they’re not being heard. They feel that people, and I’m speaking in general, not just for Joe Biden, and I’ll get more specific in in a second. That people say things when they are, you know, running for office. So they go into, you know, a Bulwark diner or whatever restaurant when they’re running for office, and then I never really hear from you again.
  • Speaker 2
    0:33:53

    I’m not saying that’s the case with Joe Biden Harris because I actually think that they’re doing things that do affect people of color and do help people of color, especially if you look at just household income and wealth, the inequality in this country, and it’s usually minorities, especially people of color who are at the bottom. I think they’re helping with that when it comes to student loans, etcetera. But I just think that when you’re in office, And you know it’s a limited amount of time, you know, even like president Obama. When you say, you know, I’m not the president of Bulwark American, not the president, or white American, I’m the president of America. That’s true.
  • Speaker 3
    0:34:31

    That is true. But you have to understand that
  • Speaker 2
    0:34:31

    not everyone has had a fair shake in America. And if you are in a position to help those in a very limited amount of time to help the people who are the underserved communities in this country, time is running out times of wasting, then you need to do it and not, you know, try to be so well. I’m not present Bulwark American or white America, Spanish America, gay America, straight America. Yes. But in that America, you know what’s up.
  • Speaker 2
    0:34:55

    And especially if you are a democrat and you’re progressive, you know what’s up when it comes to underserved communities. So I really do think that’s it. And I also think that the Democrats, just quite frankly, you know, the the economies we’re doing well. We have the best economy in the world. Their messaging is just not good.
  • Speaker 2
    0:35:11

    They’re not good at politicking. Republicans are very
  • Speaker 3
    0:35:12

    good at
  • Speaker 2
    0:35:12

    at, you know, picking slogans and and messaging and politicking. They play the long game. Look at what happened with Roe. Right? Look at what happened with the Supreme Court.
  • Speaker 2
    0:35:23

    If Democrats would just do that and not be so afraid of criticism and and not be afraid, not allow their detractors and their opponents to define them. And that happened a lot for me when I was working in news, broadcast, and cable. Oh my gosh. People are gonna think that we are conservative or are liberal. People are gonna Who gives a fuck?
  • Speaker 2
    0:35:46

    As long as you’re doing the right thing, why do you care what your enemy or what someone who doesn’t like you? Why do you care what they say about you? Do you care with someone who is never going to write something or say something in the media kindly about you or in your favor even if you’re doing a good job? Why do you care about what they think and say? Just do you.
  • Speaker 2
    0:36:03

    So I wish Democrats who I think at the moment is the only party who’s really looking out for the country. I’m not saying they’re doing everything. Right? But if you look at conservatives, look at what’s happening with the house with Kevin McCarthy and, you know, Johnson, they’re trying to oust him. They’re in chaos, and they’re actually not trying to help people.
  • Speaker 2
    0:36:20

    So Democrats continue on trying to keep democracy intact. Forget about what your opponents are thinking and saying about you and just Do your thing. Have some guts like Republicans do. Go in. Go hard.
  • Speaker 2
    0:36:36

    And just get it done. You’re only in office for a limited amount of time, and you’re only in office at the will of the people, then the people can boat you out at any moment. So while you’re there, don’t waste it.
  • Speaker 1
    0:36:46

    I totally agree with that. I wanna throw one of the things that’s kind of across sexual identities on this question. Some people would say, I wanna be careful about how I say but I I think it’s important conversation to have. What I’m not saying is that, like, the black community is more disproportionately homophobic or whatever. But some people, I think, point out that BioChom is doing better with a young Bulwark man who maybe have less educational attainment who don’t really love kind of the feminization, the LGBTQization of culture.
  • Speaker 1
    0:37:17

    They think that the Democratic Party you know, doesn’t really represent them as well. Do you think that there’s a cultural element to this that Donald Trump is kind of appealing to younger Bulwark men on that on those grounds, or not really?
  • Speaker 2
    0:37:31

    I would say stay tuned to the down limit show for Monday because I spoke to DL Ugly. And we talked to him about this. And he is a very good answer. His answer is better than mine.
  • Speaker 1
    0:37:40

    This was an unintentional promo, by the way. And I’ve been trying to get to Y’all Heelion too. Great.
  • Speaker 3
    0:37:44

    I
  • Speaker 1
    0:37:44

    I’m excited to watch that.
  • Speaker 2
    0:37:47

    You should deal. It’s great. You know, he sort of relates it to, especially about black men being attracted to Donald the Magga movement. He said, you know, it’s kind of like it’s kinda like rap music. You know all that shit.
  • Speaker 2
    0:37:57

    He goes, there are planes and the money you see in the rap videos. He says rap videos. You know, it’s not real, and it’s the same thing for the Magga. People. It’s the same thing for Donald Trump.
  • Speaker 2
    0:38:05

    It’s all a facade. It’s all a lie, and it’s fake. So I think that’s just the entertainment aspect of it. You know, he stands up for people. He’s a badass.
  • Speaker 2
    0:38:14

    He’s got a lot of money. He’s got a plane. He’s got gold. Whatever. That that’s appealing to a certain demographic of Bulwark men.
  • Speaker 2
    0:38:21

    But I also think that honestly, there are black conservatives. You know, I think black people are conservative socially at least where I you know, grew up in Louisiana, and most black people are from the south. The majority of African Americans live in the south. The south is very red. They’re very church going and and religious, and I think that has a lot to do with it.
  • Speaker 2
    0:38:42

    But I really don’t think that there is a big enough contingent of African American men or black men, that’s gonna change anything in the polling. So, you know, I think this polling about losing you know, Bulwark men to Maga. I think that’s sort of that’s overstated. But I do think it’s enough of a concern that Democrats should be worried about it and why they’re not appealing to those people. Part of it is just, as I said, just messaging, and that’s just, you know, it’s great to to be rich and do all those things.
  • Speaker 2
    0:39:09

    That’s why they appeal to Maga, but I think conservatives in some sense do appeal to the conservative nature of African Americans socially. And I think that Democrats should think about that.
  • Speaker 1
    0:39:22

    I do think so too. This is something I say like, but if you look at polls, by the way, like twenty percent of Democrats is going down, maybe it’s like in the teens now. Are like pro life religious. A lot of them are are black folks. And, like, they do not exist in media.
  • Speaker 1
    0:39:35

    Like, that person does not exist in the media at all. It’s like a fifth of the democratic party. So I I do think that there are ways that Democrats could speak to them. Okay. Also, I have a I have
  • Speaker 2
    0:39:43

    a book on religion coming out and I explain some of that stuff too.
  • Speaker 1
    0:39:45

    Oh, really. What is it?
  • Speaker 2
    0:39:46

    Another promo. It’s called, I once was lost my search for God in America. Did you find it? God after the election, and I think I actually did find it.
  • Speaker 1
    0:39:54

    Well, we’re gonna have to do that again next year. We can do all god. We’re just gonna do god and Louisiana and gay stuff. The next time, just sort of the intersection. But if we leave, there’s some problems.
  • Speaker 2
    0:40:03

    No. No. I got god’s gaze and gumbo.
  • Speaker 1
    0:40:06

    God’s gaze and gumbo. Boom, man. I’m at twenty twenty five. Hopefully, we still have a democracy then. You can be back.
  • Speaker 1
    0:40:11

    We can do a whole episode on that. Alright. I have to we have to leave. So Kim Malky, people don’t know. She’s the coach of the LSU Women’s basketball team.
  • Speaker 1
    0:40:19

    She went on a rant this week. There’s apparently a Washington post article coming about her. And I wanna know if you you struggle with this like me because in some ways, she’s like a gay icon. She’s fabulous, her outfits, you know, like, she’s out there playing, and and she’s coaching these young black women. And I was watching this press conference, and it’s like, Flage Johnson and and Angel Rees.
  • Speaker 1
    0:40:39

    So, like, playing their singles for, and they seem to be having a good time. So that’s the one side of Kim Moki that that makes me and I know this kind of woman in Louisiana a, you know, sort of a older, culturally conservative woman, but it’s still really in touch, but still, like, likes gays and Bulwark. You know what I mean? Just not she doesn’t seem to me like she’s, like, a hateful person. On the other hand, seems like she was pretty mean Britney Griner.
  • Speaker 1
    0:40:59

    I don’t know. It’s gonna come out in the story. Seems like she obviously has some also some demons I don’t know. Kim Moki. I I need to know what Don lemon thinks about Kim Moki.
  • Speaker 2
    0:41:09

    Well, I don’t know what’s gonna come out in the story, but she’s threatening to sue the Washington Post. Right? Yep. And so I just remember, and I’m sure you can relate when I, you know, I came out, got more than a decade ago, and I think only people who were out in media were Rachel Maddow and Thomas Roberts. At least, you know, people who were who people knew are on television.
  • Speaker 1
    0:41:28

    You beat Anderson? I need to have a gay time.
  • Speaker 2
    0:41:31

    Oh, yeah. Yeah. I did. I mean, not not long, not by much. Yeah.
  • Speaker 2
    0:41:34

    I think like a year or so. Yeah. So I think, you know, They come from that era, as you said. And I’m not making any excuses because people told me, you know, I wouldn’t do it. You’re gonna be known as the gay anchor.
  • Speaker 2
    0:41:46

    People don’t need to know about your sexuality. Blah blah blah blah. So there was a time when I understood why people were saying that even though I that wasn’t my belief. And finally, I just said, as a journalist, I’ll get back to Kim Sports, whatever. As a journalist, I have to have the same standards for myself that I have for people.
  • Speaker 2
    0:42:04

    So I can’t expect to question people and have them on and say, you need to be transparent. You need to tell me the truth about what you’re doing and what you’re saying, whatever, when I was hiding something. Now look, people can feel the way that they feel you know, I think that if you are a person who has a platform now and you’re not out, then you’re not doing it right. I mean, why are you afraid and why are you hiding? I know people say it’s nobody’s business, but I think there’s deception and silence.
  • Speaker 2
    0:42:27

    Okay?
  • Speaker 1
    0:42:28

    Is it by far the best decision I ever made for my psychology to say that to anybody that ever made best decision I ever made.
  • Speaker 3
    0:42:35

    And
  • Speaker 1
    0:42:35

    then my husband and my people get like, what about your kid? And I’m like, well, my kid happened because I did that thing first. Right? Like, all the good stuff that happened for me came from Yeah. So totally.
  • Speaker 2
    0:42:43

    People go through all these mental gymnastics in their head. They’re like, why do people need to know? And I’m like, well, if someone said, do you have kids? Do you go, well, that’s none of your business? If someone says, do you have a wife?
  • Speaker 2
    0:42:52

    That’s under your business. I said, well, then the only reason you’re hiding it is because you think there’s wrong or it’s going to hurt you in some way. I know. And so anyways, So I can understand maybe years ago getting that, you know, advice from the coach. And I
  • Speaker 3
    0:43:04

    can understand why she said it, but in
  • Speaker 2
    0:43:04

    this day and age, and especially in or it’s just a whole different thing.
  • Speaker 1
    0:43:09

    Just for context, she was telling Britney Griner who Not to come out. You wanted not to come out when that when she was coaching her or not
  • Speaker 2
    0:43:16

    to talk about her sexuality or what not to talk
  • Speaker 1
    0:43:18

    about. Yeah.
  • Speaker 2
    0:43:19

    Again, I don’t know the specifics behind what they’re going to write. So I’ll give her a little leeway right now, but I think in this day and age, to tell someone not to come out and not to talk about their sexuality as doing an injustice, not only to the world which can benefit from that, but especially to the person who is gay or, you know, lesbian or bisexual or what have you, I think it doesn’t help them and can ultimately to lead to some really bad things by suppressing who and what they are.
  • Speaker 1
    0:43:48

    Amen. I agree with that. I I don’t know what will happen. I hope for the for the young women, for my for Angel and Flage. I hope that those LSU Tigers keep on winning, and we’ll we’ll see what happens at the Washington Post story.
  • Speaker 1
    0:43:59

    But then And if you have a name like Blanchier. Blanchier.
  • Speaker 2
    0:44:02

    It just seemed fabulous. Just be here. I know. She’s my favorite.
  • Speaker 1
    0:44:05

    Okay. Don Levin. Thanks so much. Go tigers. Fellow Louisiana.
  • Speaker 1
    0:44:09

    And I’m not really, Louisiana. I’m adopted, but you’re, you’re are you native? Your native? Or are you born? Baton Rouge?
  • Speaker 2
    0:44:15

    Who that? Who that? I was born at Baton Rouge General Hospital.
  • Speaker 1
    0:44:18

    Baton Rouge General Hospital. Shout out to VR General. And, hope we can we’ll do this your god’s gaze and gumbo. Thank you, Don. Lemon, for coming on the Bulwark Podcast.
  • Speaker 1
    0:44:26

    We’ll talk to you soon.
  • Speaker 2
    0:44:27

    Tim, it’s a pleasure and sorry about the comedy of errors in the beginning.
  • Speaker 1
    0:44:30

    No, baby. All good. Okay. See you later. Bye.
  • Speaker 3
    0:45:01

    Breaking down as you love me, like, you love to love. And I’m a nipissie. I’m a puppy. If I have the word as running it up.
  • Speaker 1
    0:46:23

    The Secret Podcast is produced by Katie Cooper with audio engineering and editing by Jason Brett.
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