Can the Drive-In Survive?

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Welcome back to the board. It goes to Hollywood. My name is Sunny Bon shum culture editor at the Bulwark. And I’m very pleased to be joined today by April Wright, the director of a fun new documentary called back to the drive in April. Thank you for being on the show.

Really appreciate it.

Thanks for having me on. So back

to the drive in takes a look at the kind of the COVID era resurgence and interest in drive in theaters, and the challenges that these drive in landmarks face face to continue to face both because of COVID and other stuff. But, yeah, it it was funny. I was looking at your your your bio on IMDB. This isn’t your first movie about cribens. Either back in two thousand thirteen, you had going attractions, the definitive story of the American drive.

And what is it about these landmarks that so appeal to you?

Well, I went to them growing up. And then as I got older, I noticed a lot of them were closing, a lot of them were sitting abandoned for a while before they got torn down. I grew up in the Chicago area, and when I lived there, I would actually drive out of my way to visit some of these driving that were closed and in bad condition, and I just couldn’t understand what happened to them. How could they be allowed to look this bad? And, you know, it it just I was like, we love cars.

We love movies. Why wouldn’t this combination continue? And so I did want to follow that as a topic. And then when I started making films, I thought it would make a good documentary. So The first one is about the whole history of drive ins from the invention to the hay day, which was in the fifties and then all the ups and downs.

And for this film, I wanted to, as the title says, go back to the drive in because I really wanted to go behind the scenes a little more and visit some of the owners because most of the drive ins that are left are family owned businesses. So I wanted to show all the passion that goes into keeping these places alive.

Yeah. Let’s talk let’s talk a little bit about the history of the drive in because I find this really fascinating. I mean, you see the the the rise of the driving kind of a kind of if my understanding, anyway, I I could be entirely wrong. I wanna I should You

gotta watch my Run

this by you. I No. I I wish I wish I had had one more time, but the but the my understanding is that the the rise of the driving basically coincides with the fifties and sixties rise of the teenager as as an ideal, the the rise of car culture in general. And then it kind of starts to decline in the nineteen eighties with the rise of multiple culture, which, you know, is a huge change to the business. How

how good that’s right after that? Let me give you one small correction. Yep. It really took off right after World War two, and it was really the baby boomers that when they were all born after World War two, we didn’t really have television yet. In homes.

And so it was a big deal to get in your car and go places. And you did have, like, drive in restaurants with car hops. You also had drive in movies. And there was, like, the GI bill after the war helped to build out the suburbs and this idea of the two car family. So it really was post World War two.

The baby boom is when the drive ins really thrived because there was about a hundred of them before World War two, and then it jumped to a thousand, and then it jumped to five thousand. And then the teens were those baby boomers that got older going in the in the fifties and the sixties, So that part is correct, but it really started a little earlier. And then when you get into the eighties, not just multiplexes, but you had cable TV, you had VHS, you had all these things that we’re competing, that we’re taking some of these b movies that we’re playing at driving. By that time, there was other markets for it. So it was all it was a convergence of things in the forties and then it was a convergence of things in the eighties.

But you had, like, forty really strong years right in the middle there. So, yeah, it it is fascinating. It is fascinating from a culture perspective.

And you mentioned the b movies because this is the other thing. When I think of a drive in in my head, I think of I think of like Joe Bob Briggs Jonathan Last drive. Right? I think of that that kind of b movie or, you know, kind of grindhouse y type type picture playing particularly in southern the southern circuits of of America. But, you know, I mean, I live in Texas now.

One of the things I really found fascinating about your documentaries, just how many are around me. Right? I, like, I don’t even know about them. And I they’re they’re kind of all around me, but not not as close as I would have liked. Anyway, this is neither here nor there.

Let’s talk about let’s talk about your new documentary because it is a really interesting look at how, you know, when when COVID happened, theaters closed. And everyone was like, how are we gonna see new fees. And people were like, what about the drive ins? Let’s go to the drive ins. That’s what that’s what we should do.

And they did kind of, but as you document in your documentary, there were a lot of COVID error restrictions and that sort of thing as well on the drive ins, which I found in I had no idea.

Yeah. Well, and also you said go to see new movies. There weren’t a lot of new movies coming out during COVID. Right?

Yeah. There were very

few being released into theaters. Everything was getting redirected to the streaming services. So so, yeah, Driven’s got definitely a little revival, a little bump during COVID, depending it was different depending on each state, of course, Some had very few restrictions. Some had to park the cars. One space up us apart to social distance the cars.

And that basically put them at half capacity. So even though it was good, it was also tough. They had additional cleaning protocols. Also depending on the state because the snack bar is kind of akin to a restaurant. If restaurants were not allowed to have people inside, they couldn’t either.

So they had to set up you know, pick up at the windows services and things that they hadn’t really had before. So there was good sides, but there was also a lot of additional requirements depending where you were. And the movies were tough. So a lot of drive ins played retro movies during COVID, some new titles came out with a lot of new horror films, went to drive ins like Becky was one that went that I know did really well. But they also played a lot of old stuff, but also driving Scott, you know, they start having church services, graduation, stand up comedy, dance reset, all these things, weddings that you couldn’t do at an indoor venue, people started doing a Matt drive in.

So it was kind of an interesting time.

That is interesting. That is interesting. So why don’t you why don’t you walk us through this project? How how did you what what was your what was your planning like? Did you just put a map up on the wall and find all of the drive ins.

Like, I’m going to this one and this one and this one. How how did that work? Mhmm.

Well, I had wanted to do a follow-up before COVID started. I actually went in February twenty twenty to there there’s a drive in association that a lot of the drive ins belong to, and I went to their annual conference in Florida. In February of twenty twenty. And I said, hey, I wanna make a follow-up, you know, who might be interested in being in it? So if you of the drive ins there expressed interest.

And at that point, I was planning to just have three or four drive ins and really go deep profiling these families and the fact that they have second jobs and all the things that they’re doing to keep them going. But when COVID hit literally a month later after that conversation. I realized that it was a bigger thing and then I wanted to show more perspectives. So I increased the number of drive ins to ten and I ended up with actually eleven. Because I wanted to show more points of view.

I wanted to see is it different in different states or different situations? So I did pick drive ins that, you know, some had a single screen, some had seven screens. I picked different states. I picked Some that served alcohol, some that didn’t, some that were really old, had been around for decades, some that were brand new, some that were younger owners, some that were older owners, just refactor I could think of to show different perspectives. But the interesting thing, even though there might have been a little difference in the details, but as soon as I got to a few locations.

They were all telling me the same thing. They were all saying it’s hard to get employees. Some of the customers are being really unruly after they get out of the house. Out of lockup. And they’re having supply chain issues.

They can’t get natural cheese. They can’t get popcorn. So It it was really interesting. I expected to find a whole bunch of different things and piece that together by topic, but then I realized, no. They’re actually sorta in the same boat.

Going through the same issues, so I didn’t expect that. But but I did pick, you know, as many different reflections of drive ins that I could.

Yeah. No. It was it was really interesting to hear them talk about issues like retaining employees and just having no shows and and that sort of thing and how it was so different supply chain issues because it really does feel like a microcosm of the American economy. In

this one little — Yeah. — in this

one little sector.

That’s what I figured. Yeah. Because the yeah. You know, they’re family owned businesses and and, yeah, it’s about the drive ins, but it’s really about what a lot of businesses are going through and have been going through trying to bounce back after after COVID?

So you mentioned that you mentioned that, you know, these are kind of labors of love that these are, in some cases, second jobs family jobs. I remember one of the one of the owners talking about how his, you know, seven year old has sweat equity in the business in the in the documentary, which is very funny. When when you talk to them, what was it that that came through about their their love of the driving and their desire to keep it going? That makes you think that this will this will survive or maybe makes you think, like, these things are in very precarious states. It’s it’s a it’s a It’s hard to say that they’re gonna keep going.

Right? Well, that is part of what I wanted to show. I mean, the whole industry is influx and this the importance of the theatrical experience was tested during COVID when the theaters were closed. So I don’t think you everybody knows where the chips are quite going to land just yet, although they are optimistic for this this year, this summer season, which is kind of starting up now. There’s a lot more new movies coming out.

But at the same time, even with that extra attention from COVID, the total number of drivins has declined since COVID. There was about three hundred and five going into it. It’s definitely below three hundred now, and we’re just not sure how low it’s going to get. So there are some driving’s closing, like throwing in the towel after after these struggles during COVID. There’s also a lot changing hands, finding new owners.

There’s also a lot of new ones coming back from the dead. There’s ones that have been sitting vacant for years that are reopening. So there is a ton of activity. I think that’s what comes across in the film is you really see the determination that all these people have to keep them going and why they feel like they’re so important to their community because they really do get to know the families and the kids in their community, they’re coming through their their ticket booth. And and they feel like it’s valuable to provide that.

It’s valuable to have a place where families can come and have a good time and create good memories, and they feel like that’s very important. And when you watch the film, you feel it’s important too and you really want a root for them to to succeed. So I think that really comes across

Yeah. For sure. I mean, I’m a a longtime booster and defender of movie theaters. I believe they’re very important to the industry as a whole, but also just American society and the the drive in really is a a fascinating subculture sub cultural part of that that there is a a thriving or maybe not quite thriving a a a segment of the theatrical industry out there that doesn’t get a ton of attention. One thing that you mentioned just now, the family experience.

That was interesting to me because when I think of again, when I think of drive ins, I think of the kind of again, the the the grind housekeeping being

your horror movies. And age a bottery image in your head.

Right. Right. I think I think of, like, the outsiders. Right? Or, you know, movies like that where where you’ve got, you know, kinda kids running around teenagers, teen dirty teens running around causing trouble and

mischief

and that sort of thing. But it it what what really comes through here is, you know, these these drive ins with, like, playgrounds in them little little mini golf courses, you know, kind of beer garden areas. It’s a really interesting and diverse kind of look at at every every every one of these these ideas.

Yeah. And and that’s funny the image that you have because the drive ins did start four families, like I was telling you with the baby boom in in the the forties and the fifties. And that’s really they’re really full circle back to that now. They’re very family oriented. The films that do the best are the animated films and the comic book films and those types of things really draw the crowds.

And driving’s are pretty big compared to normal theaters. When you think about it, like the typical stadium seating in a multiplex is two fifty seats. And a lot of these drive ins, they might have capacity for, you know, if they say they have five hundred capacity, two per car, maybe two more if it’s kids. They’re bringing in literally they need a movie that’s gonna bring in thousands of people. Right?

And so those movies do. That phase with the I mean, they they do play horror too, and and I think a lot of drive ins figured out that they could do business with horror films during the pandemic because that was one of the few things that were being released. From some of the smaller studios during the pandemic. But that phase, it was kind of seventies, eighties kind of on the the edge of that decline. And I think part of that just happened those b movies because driving’s couldn’t get primary product.

Because everything was on a film print then. And so, you know, they were going to the indoors and the drive ins wouldn’t get them till later. And if they did get them, they were scratched up by that time. So that’s where some of that imagery comes from. It it did exist.

Also, same kind of thing with Grindhouse was in old movie palaces. Those huge you know, or Nate that mostly were in city city areas that were playing the black exploitation films or the the grind house type films. They were playing those products too because they had a hard time also getting the primary product. So so that that definitely was a phase for sure.

Yeah. And you you’ve also made a mock documentary about the the movie

films, deliveries. Yeah. That I don’t have a cinema history documentaries.

No. That’s that’s I’ve gotta check that one out too. This is I’ve done I’m poorly researched here. This is a bring shame upon myself and my profession.

And I what about stuntwomen? So Well, I I stunts and films.

So I wanna ask you about that. I wanna ask you about that at the end. We’ll come we’ll come to the end of the year because I actually do have a question about that. Okay. But the the So the the the technology question is a very interesting one to maybe is there’s there’s a there’s a portion in the film where one of the owners is talking about changing over from thirty five millimeter to digital projection and how that, you know, she kinda misses the worrying, ticking sound of the the thirty five millimeter, but the the DCPs are actually pretty convenient, all told.

How has that impacted the the world of drive ins. Because I feel like that is a that’s a real that’s that’s both an equalizer and also, you know, just kind of another cost increase another another change to the business model that could make things harder. Howard

Bauchner: When I made my first documentary, which came out in ten years ago. It’s ten year anniversary of my first drive in documentary. And when I was shooting that, that was the big question was the conversion to digital because there was financial incentives for the multiplexers, but not for these mom and pop type theaters. They were kinda left behind. And so it was a huge question whether they would be able to make that conversion and all the studios were saying, oh, we’re gonna stop prints as of x date.

You know, you won’t have to be able to get any product. And finally, there were some programs that got put together that allowed the independent cinemas and the drive ins to convert people thought we’d lose every drive in during that. We lost hardly any. It turned out not to be an issue once these programs came together, they all made that conversion. There’s only a couple drive ins left that are still playing things off of film.

Most of them are digital. Now interest when I went on the road to make this movie. Out of the eleven, I went to three of the eleven had already converted to laser projection or put in laser projection. Which, you know and and now this year, like, the AMC’s are converting to that. So the drivers are actually way ahead of the curve on that technology.

And some of it is because there are doors and they have a really big throw to get from their projection room to that screen. The this better quality digital equipment helps. You can actually see a digital picture way better on a driving screen. There it’s not as sensitive to the ambient light as a phone projection is. So when that switch happened, the picture improved at drive ins and I think with digital the same.

So that technology helps. And then, of course, the, you know, the the sound box that you’d put in your window, the speaker box. Those went away in the early eighties. Everything switched to radio sound, and it’s still radio sound today. So it’s kinda cool when every car is playing the the sound of the movie.

It does create an auditorium where you just hear the sound everywhere. It’s kinda cool. But a few driving’s, I showed one in the film, they do maintain their speakers so that people can have that experience and the sound also gets run through those. And and a handful of driving’s kept their speakers or kept a couple of rows, so you can find them out there. But from a technology perspective, I people are always surprised when I tell them these things because they think drive ins are behind the times, and they’re more of a retro experience.

But they’re really not. The the movie experience is really high quality.

Well, it’s the the I I didn’t realize that about the the laser projector. That’s really interesting. Thing to be as a as a projector nerd. It’s it’s kind of it’s kind of fascinating because I I mean, I as you mentioned, I mean, AMC is just isn’t going to start making that switch over till twenty twenty four, I think, or twenty twenty five. Like, they’re they’re if assuming AMC’s still around by then, you know, we the but to to to hear that so many of them are so many of the driving’s already switching over is really

Yeah. Kinda. I was surprised as well.

Yeah. I mean, it’s that so you I mean, you mentioned the throw. I mean, this is so this is always, you know, one of the one of the interesting things in the documentary you go to. I think it’s the the the driving that’s located in Cape Cod — Mhmm. — where they have the the f word that rolls in you know, it’s very it’s very scary.

But I but is that a is that a yeah. The fog. I’m sorry. Just

But the yeah.

But is that a is is that a I mean, is is that something that you hear when you talk to patrons that they’re worried about, you know, well, how am I gonna be able to see it? You know, I don’t know what the the quality is gonna be like. Is that is that a thing that is keeping people away from the the drive ins?

Yeah. And I think that’s always been a thing that that weather forecasts can scare people off. I did a a a press thing with some driving honors the other day, and they were seeing how, like, you know, on your iPhone or whatever. That it’ll put a ring cloud even if there’s a twenty percent chance and it’s in the morning. Right?

But that day, we’ll still get the showers on it, the, you know, the rain cloud emoji. And they said that scares people off because they’re making their plans of what they might do. Oh, there’s rain on Friday. I’m not gonna go with the drive in when actually there is no rain. It happened at ten AM, and it’s a beautiful night.

So yeah. What what and they used to say weather men and weather forecasts would hurt the drive in for the same reason. It is a thing. The the weather sometimes will will, you know, affect attendance. And the drive ins, it doesn’t matter.

They play in the rain, they’ll play they’ll play whatever. You know, you can some people come and see drive ins in the rain. It it’s kind of a fun experience. To be out in your car watching a movie with the rain going around you. Some some do it in the snow.

I I literally was reading today the Ford Wyoming drive in in Detroit area, had posted on their Instagram. We are open tonight. We are working hard to remove the snow. So they were like snow snow plowing their fields so they could still show movies tonight. So it doesn’t hurt them, but it but people do get scared off by that.

They shouldn’t. But, yeah, it it’s a thing. And the fog is a little different because When it’s white, it’s it’s white and it’s reflecting light everywhere, so you never get dark enough to see the picture that well. That’s why they wait to show driving after dusk because it has to be dark to see the picture. When fog is there, it’s all white white clouds reflecting, and it makes it really hard to see the picture.

So

in

some

cases of it’s severe, they have to shut down and refund to the house, and I think that’s what he was afraid of throughout the movie. There’s a lot of tension whether it’s gonna work, you know. Well,

there is I mean, it’s it’s if you if you watch a documentary and you should, again, it’s back to the drive in. It’s on VOD now. And and there is this very funny very funny kind of, again, dramatic tension filled moment where a fog bank is rolling in and it looks like things are gonna get wiped out. Again, it’s it’s it’s amusing. One of the things one of the things that the owners talk about is the sense of camaraderie amongst the the remaining family run operations and the desire to help each other out, making sure that they’re still a a little ways away.

Right. That that

is there is there is there a I mean, how how does that how does that actually work? I mean, are there do do do are there I don’t know, territories. How does that how does that actually kind of work

with Yeah. That’s a funny question. So back in the day before the Internet, The drive ins didn’t talk to each other. They were very isolated, and rarely did anybody visit another drive in because you had to operate yours if it was a night that you were open. There was no way you could leave and go, you know, drive however many miles to go see what another drive in was doing.

So most drive ins did operate completely isolated just doing their own thing. And a lot of them were advertising in the same way. And this is something that started in the forties and fifties that every drive in would advertise themselves as having the biggest screen. Or being the most beautiful drive in. So when so when you get into, like, the nineties and the two thousands when the Internet is there and there were some web sites starting to compile driving data and information.

And it kinda became this interesting thing where they were like, oh, I thought we had the biggest screen. No. No. You have the biggest screen, and they could start to compare notes about, you know, kinda get out of this isolation that they had and then an association eventually formed. But the association is pretty new.

I don’t know exactly how many years, but it’s maybe around twenty years old. So it’s not something that always happened. But now that they’re kind of the last of the breed to compare notes has been so valuable And and, yes, a lot of there are a few areas where drivers are close to each other. You know, like in my film, I wanted to show three very different types of diamonds that are all within the Dallas Fort Worth area. Mhmm.

So I did visit three there just to kinda show, like, here, you know, three examples of drive ins that could not be more different, but here they are. And there’s a few places like that where there’s a lot of drive ins left like in Ohio and Pennsylvania. New York has the most drive ins left, so there are some within maybe a half hour of each other in those areas. But for the most part, there’re there’s there’re more few and far between. So most areas, might have one drive in nearby or one if you make, you know, you know, extra ones if you make a further drive.

And so, yeah, they’re not competing with each other. So I think at this point, because of the novelty aspect of it, driving owners. Wouldn’t want other driving’s opening really close? That would be direct competition. But it it happens.

No.

Yeah. What the driving association, I mean, what are are they are they logged what are what are they banding together to I mean, is it is it just like Yeah. Of course. We’re gonna hang out and Yeah.

There’s a few different groups. So so you probably heard of NATO, the the other NATO, the

National Association of Theater Owners. So Sure.

So that’s sort of the biggest organized group, which includes all theater owners. And then so a lot of the drive in so it’s the United Drive in theater owners association is what this group is called. And a lot of people involved with that are involved with NATO to represent the drive in’s point of view. So they figure out what they’re interested in, and then they bring it to the bigger organization. So the two are very interconnected, but they also have annual conference, and then they have a fall gathering.

So they they visit other each other’s drive ins. They share information. It’s basically just like an industry industry association, you know, of of these owners, especially because most of them are family owned at this point, they’re not really corporations. Sometimes they’re corporations, but they’re family owned corporations that might have multiple locations. And there’s a few other little sub driving groups that communicate as well, but but that’s the main one that’s organized.

Actually, I went to their

conference this year. You know, I was saying I went to one pre pandemic to tell them I wanted to make this movie. I went this year and they actually made me an honorary member of the organization, which was quite a nice surprise. Because I’ve spent so much time visiting drive ins and trying to help get the word out.

Yeah.

No. That is that is nice. Mean, are there are there things that they ban together to either lobby for or, like, ideas that they take to their local, you know, city councils and that sort of thing. I I’m curious just if there’s know, because usually when you talk to a a group

of people, there’s a lobbying side

Yeah. There’s a political

side. Well, I

think there was around the digital projection. So when that happened, if they were not organized, it might have gone the way people thought

that drive ins would have never made that conversion to digital. But through the group, they raised the issues that drive ins were being ignored throughout this conversion process and that they needed some of the similar support that the studios were giving to the chains. And so they did band together, they did lobby, they worked through NATO, and they probably would not have survived if they had not had some sort of organization around that. So that’s a big one. I think right now, some of the issues are just the terms.

Some of the studios are giving are not so friendly to single screen and more I guess you could say rural theaters because you know, if you’ve gotta keep this if you have a single screen, you have to keep the same movie on screen for three or four weeks and you can’t change it and you can’t use Tuesday night to do a retro movie or whatever, And, you know, it it makes it really hard. In some of those markets, you have to change the movie more often. And so I think there’s some it it’s not just drive ins, but all the independently owned cinemas are trying to get some of those things adjusted in the industry to help their survival?

Yeah. I mean, just so people know, I mean, one of the the big One of one of the big studios in this in this realm is Disney, which requires if you wanna show a new Marvel movie, you have to give it the nicest theater you’re in a multiplex, you have to give it the nicest theater in your place for, you know, some x number of weeks and days or weekends or however that works. And I have heard the same thing from single single theater owners that the the the the they they they have just stopped showing some of the Marvel movies because it’s like we can’t have weekend number five of Ant Man when we’ve got, you know, the new scream movie coming out. That doesn’t make any sense for us. Mhmm.

Yeah. So anyway, I the you you mentioned your documentary stunt women, the untold Hollywood story, and did actually wanna ask you one thing real quick because I the last week I talked to a couple of writers from Vulture who kind of spearheaded their stunt stunt person awards thing. It was very, very kind of fun and and cool. I was I was curious to get your take on the idea of a stunt category, stunt coordination, stunt performer category, something like that in the Oscars. Do you think that’s a good idea?

Bad idea? Is that something

Oh, that’s and a huge fight going on for a long time.

I know. I know.

So so there are some organizations that recognize Ron DeSantis. So the Taurus World Stunt Association has been giving

stunt awards for a long time. It used to be televised. It’s not anymore. Ron DeSantis has a stent category, the Emmys has a stent category, but the Oscars do not. And so it’s sort of the only organization still out there that is not recognizing stents.

And so some of the stuff people were saying it’s because, you know, they’re the, you know, arts and sciences is what the academy is focused Ron DeSantis really aren’t art and a science, so they try to make that case. And what’s funny is a lot of times when they show clips from movies that they Oscars, what they’re showing are clips with the stunt performers, not even the actors. And in making a lot of these films that are really action and stunt oriented, a lot of times the stunt sequences are what’s being shot first. So they’re they’re yeah. They’re they’re very important to the industry especially now, and I think they do deserve that recognition.

Yeah.

Okay. Great. I don’t wanna I don’t wanna focus too much on this. We got new movie out back to the drive in. It’s on VOD.

I always like to close these interviews by asking if there’s anything I should have asked. If there’s anything, I think folks should know about drive ins, but you’re really about anything. What what what should I have asked that I I did not. Well,

I think you asked very good questions about about the drive in. Yeah. I just think what I hope happens is that people find this film and either it, you know, reminds me of the drive in or even if they haven’t been for a long time that they look into which drive ins are near them and go visit them, check them out. Support them. If you want them to be around for the future, that’s what we have to do is just go out and support them.

So I hope people get inspired to go to go back to the driving like the title says once they see this film.

Yeah. Alright. Thank you very much for being on the show. April, I really appreciate it. Again, the name of the movie is back to The Driven.

It’s on VOD. Go check it out. You can rent it, watch it. It’s it’s if you if you are interested in the world of drive ins, I I promise you you will find lots of fascinating.

If you love movies, if you love cinema, if you like anybody. Yeah.

If you love movies, if you love movies, check out again, the the interesting thing here is the the personalities of some of these owners. I think you could describe them as American originals would be one one one

I love that. Yes. Okay.

To to think about them. But check it out again on BOD now. Thank you for being on the show. Again, my name is Sunny Von Chaim, the culture editor at the Bulwark and I will be back next week with another episode. We’ll see you guys

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