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C-SPAN Secrets: And the deplorables of the week (The Secret Podcast PREVIEW)

September 8, 2023
Notes
Transcript
Sarah and JVL drop the news that TNL is taking over CSPAN on Saturday morning. They talk about Nikki Haley’s second look. America’s SpaceX problem. And the secret history of “Gay Obama.”

It’s total, nonstop action.
 
Don’t miss Sarah, Tim, and JVL on C-SPAN on Saturday morning at 9am in the East.

The Secret Show is exclusively for Bulwark+ members. To listen to the rest of this show and gain access to all Bulwark+ member benefits (newsletters, podcasts and more!) sign up today at TheBulwark.com/secret.

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors and omissions. Ironically, the transcription service has particular problems with the word “bulwark,” so you may see it mangled as “Bullard,” “Boulart,” or even “bull word.” Enjoy!
  • Speaker 1
    0:00:00

    Hey there. It’s JBL. On the Secret Show with Sarah Longwell today, we talked about Nikki Haley and the problem she’s creating for good Republicans. Also talked a little bit about Elon Musk and the problems with capitalism and some other stuff too. Here’s the show.
  • Speaker 1
    0:00:22

    So, I am prepared to treat these callers as if they are not infants. And so I’m prepared to not Not I do not want to insult them by with the soft bigotry of low expectations — Mhmm. — as if they they are not capable of understanding reality. Oh. And so if somebody is, like, you know, Donald Trump is still the president and he’s controlling the military and Joe Biden’s usurper, I’m gonna say sir, sir.
  • Speaker 1
    0:00:55

    The rest of us need oxygen to to do productive things in this world. You are taking it Sir, please go drive into a tree.
  • Speaker 2
    0:01:03

    No. See, I was gonna say the opposite. I was gonna say, you need to treat them like they are babies. So
  • Speaker 1
    0:01:09

    somebody I feel like that’s insulting.
  • Speaker 2
    0:01:11

    Yeah. I’m just I’m just trying to manage you through this process. It’s not that I I I at this point, the right and wrong of it all out the window, I just need you to not tell a human on air to drive into a tree. How about
  • Speaker 1
    0:01:26

    this? I am the producer of this program.
  • Speaker 2
    0:01:31

    Which one? The Secret Podcast
  • Speaker 1
    0:01:33

    this program. Well, the the next I I sort of run the the I I sit in the captain’s chair for the next level so that you and Tim can shine. And I will hand you the mute button for the entire show tomorrow so that any time you you just do this, You you point at the screen.
  • Speaker 2
    0:01:53

    On C span, I’m just gonna point at the screen. I’m gonna You know what?
  • Speaker 1
    0:01:56

    You’ll tug at your earlobe.
  • Speaker 2
    0:01:57

    I don’t know what to do with live television.
  • Speaker 1
    0:01:59

    Tug your earlobe or something, and that is the sign. And then I’ll mute myself, and I won’t allow myself to be unmuted until you bring me back in. So you will control how much JBL makes it to air. Yeah.
  • Speaker 2
    0:02:10

    And
  • Speaker 1
    0:02:11

    now it’s your responsibility.
  • Speaker 2
    0:02:11

    I don’t want it to be my responsibility. I lived I looked this you guys should have seen this Slack last night. We’re like, okay. We all have to go on c span. And JBL’s like, JBL’s like I might not.
  • Speaker 2
    0:02:21

    I don’t know if I’ll be able to make it or manage myself. And then Tim was like, but I’m gonna be really hungover and everyone’s like, so Sarah, you have to deal with it. No. This is about the three of us. I think the two of you, you you guys should really shine for this.
  • Speaker 2
    0:02:33

    I do see span. I have to get yelled at by these people all the time.
  • Speaker 1
    0:02:37

    I will do my best to treat them with respect as a grown ass adults. Great. Who are capable of intaking reality and data points and coming to rational decisions and who don’t need to be coddled as if they’re children who can’t who can’t think smart thoughts.
  • Speaker 2
    0:02:58

    Fine. But it is a good opportunity for you to be able to, rather than saying things about their deaths. You should say you know, you should argue back. You should make your persuasive eloquent points as you often do.
  • Speaker 1
    0:03:15

    Because that will change their minds.
  • Speaker 2
    0:03:17

    No. Because that might change the minds of other people watching. Also, it will serve you better.
  • Speaker 1
    0:03:26

    I don’t know. Don’t the people want can I do the voice? Here. Let’s have this question now. Can’t do voices?
  • Speaker 1
    0:03:33

    I can’t do foghorn leghorn.
  • Speaker 2
    0:03:34

    Oh my gosh.
  • Speaker 1
    0:03:35

    Could I do foghorn leghorn or cleatus?
  • Speaker 2
    0:03:37

    This is so stressful.
  • Speaker 1
    0:03:39

    Could I do could I do skinny jelly? From, from from from Jersey.
  • Speaker 2
    0:03:43

    Yeah. Sure. I approve why Joe.
  • Speaker 1
    0:03:46

    That I can do skinny Joe? You
  • Speaker 2
    0:03:47

    know exactly why.
  • Speaker 1
    0:03:48

    No. I don’t. Explain it to me, Sarah.
  • Speaker 2
    0:03:51

    Because when you’re doing skinny Joe, you’re basically making fun of yourself because, by the way, you live in New Jersey. Although another stipulation for this show is you’re gonna be doing it from New York, New York is your location. I cannot believe that demand was acquiesced too.
  • Speaker 1
    0:04:09

    So listen, this this is why you guys are on the secret show. So they want chyrons for you. See, spam wants chyrons for you showing where you are broadcasting from. And I live In a one might think of it as a a neighborhood in the borough of New York, but a small neighborhood. One might.
  • Speaker 2
    0:04:30

    And it’s One might if one didn’t have a map.
  • Speaker 1
    0:04:33

    It’s small enough that is notionally notionally a New York City neighborhood. But I it’s small enough. I really don’t wanna have broadcast, like, the town that I live in because, you know, like, then it’s not that hard to find me. I pass. And, I said, you know,
  • Speaker 2
    0:04:48

    it’s really easy to find people in any neighborhood in New York. You just
  • Speaker 1
    0:04:52

    Well, I said, so can we just abstract it so that my location will be New York? New York. And they said, sure.
  • Speaker 2
    0:04:58

    Uh-huh.
  • Speaker 1
    0:04:59

    So if you tune in tomorrow, you’ll see under my Kyron that I will be broadcasting from my home, the greatest city in the world, the big apple, the city that never sleeps, New York City.
  • Speaker 2
    0:05:07

    So I encourage anybody who wants to see JBL on live television and me being stressed about the idea that JBLs on live television interacting with callers tomorrow’s the day. Alright. But one one more thing.
  • Speaker 1
    0:05:21

    One more thing. Right? They they’ve invited us on because they want the next level experience.
  • Speaker 2
    0:05:26

    Yeah. That’s true.
  • Speaker 1
    0:05:28

    If I don’t do the voice, If I don’t treat callers with the utmost respect of them being autonomous, grown ass adults, Isn’t that a little bit like going to see Taylor Swift, but she won’t sing any of the hits?
  • Speaker 2
    0:05:42

    Okay. That’s fine. You know what? You do whatever you want, but I’m just gonna tell you, I would disavow you on my television in a way that, obviously, I do hear too. Right?
  • Speaker 2
    0:05:50

    That’s clear, folks, like, disavow. But, like, If you want that to happen on television, I’ll do it because I will not get your the the that mocking stench all over me.
  • Speaker 1
    0:06:01

    It’s, it’s like going to see Don Rickles, and then he doesn’t do any insult humor. Like, you the audience would be disappointed. They know what they’re signing up for.
  • Speaker 2
    0:06:08

    The c span audience has no idea. The c span audience has never heard of the next level or the three of us. Every time I go on, they’ll let somebody’s always like, this lady, just doesn’t know what she’s taught. Yeah. They’re, you know.
  • Speaker 1
    0:06:21

    Ma’am, do they ma’am you?
  • Speaker 2
    0:06:22

    Yeah. Yeah. I’m like, I Like,
  • Speaker 1
    0:06:24

    you’re an old person.
  • Speaker 2
    0:06:24

    I’m not old.
  • Speaker 1
    0:06:26

    I would bet that we are all twenty years younger than the youngest caller who will call into the show. That’s fine. That’s my guess. Okay. We have a bunch of things to talk about.
  • Speaker 1
    0:06:37

    I wanna start with Nikki Haley. So we are three weeks post three weeks? No. Four weeks post debate —
  • Speaker 2
    0:06:46

    No way.
  • Speaker 1
    0:06:46

    — in which, wasn’t it, September thirteenth? Four
  • Speaker 2
    0:06:49

    weeks? I don’t know.
  • Speaker 1
    0:06:50

    Feel like it was no. August August thirteen. Wasn’t it August thirteen? August twenty three, but Maybe
  • Speaker 2
    0:06:55

    I had, like, three weeks.
  • Speaker 1
    0:06:56

    The point is, it just happened. And Nikki Haley is getting her second look because she was the great, normie Republican alternative, And she showed on that stage what a substantive good Republican. She is. And we should all we were all getting tingles and, you know, I even I was like, yeah, great, man. Since then, Sorry.
  • Speaker 1
    0:07:23

    I had to get my clip clip board with me. I’m here. She has put Don Bulwark in charge of her New Hampshire obturation. That would be Don Boldock free the the general as he is known. The guy who Chris Sunu, who said wasn’t a serious person, the guy who lost his New Hampshire Senate bid, the guy who was a frequent guest on Steve Bannon’s war room.
  • Speaker 1
    0:07:43

    He is now head of team Haley, head of team Nikki in New Hampshire. Jonathan Last.
  • Speaker 2
    0:07:49

    Can I just say that that’s sort of surprising that Bulwark, who is a big trumper, is going in for Haley? I’m more surprised by that than the other way around.
  • Speaker 1
    0:07:59

    I yes. Yes. Although, I think Boulder was doing the Trump thing as an act because he, you know, like, he went and That’s
  • Speaker 2
    0:08:10

    like Nikki Haley.
  • Speaker 1
    0:08:11

    Much like Nikki Haley. Yeah. I mean, they’re two phonies so they know each other. Okay. Here is a I’m gonna read the transcript to you.
  • Speaker 1
    0:08:21

    From, face the nation this past Sunday. Bob Kosta, you said he would still support Trump if he was convicted of a crime. Nikki Haley. Canada’s on that stage said that they would do exactly what they signed and pledged to do, which is support the nominee. Dot dot dot.
  • Speaker 1
    0:08:39

    Any Republican is better than what Joe Biden and a Kamala Harris are doing, Bob Costa. Even if they’re convicted of a crime, Nikki Haley, you are implying that the American people are not smart. They are not going to vote for convicted criminal. So I think what Nikki Haley is doing is saying, yes, I am going to vote for Donald Trump even if he’s convicted of a crime. But don’t worry it’s okay because the rest of America won’t.
  • Speaker 1
    0:09:07

    And so it won’t actually get us into any trouble. So give me credit for both.
  • Speaker 2
    0:09:12

    I think it’s worse than that. I think she’s saying the American people are smart and therefore will not vote for a convicted criminal. I Nikki Haley am an idiot who will vote for a convicted criminal.
  • Speaker 1
    0:09:24

    Yes. Yes. And then we have, we have a thing. It just in New Hampshire yesterday. A voter at a Nikki Haley rally said that a lot of them there were damn, they they saw here, I’m paraphrasing before I get to the direct quote.
  • Speaker 1
    0:09:43

    They saw her on that stage of the debate, raising her hand, saying that she would support Donald Trump, even if he was in jail. But they were concerned. Now here, at this point in the question, I thought to myself, oh, good. Somebody’s gonna say, you know, why why would you support somebody like? No.
  • Speaker 1
    0:09:57

    No. What this What this very fine individual who probably calls in deceased man often said was they were concerned that she was lying and that she wouldn’t actually support any people from jail. And so says. So can you raise your hand with us today to say that you would support president Trump even if he was in jail?
  • Speaker 2
    0:10:16

    Did she do it?
  • Speaker 1
    0:10:18

    And she says, I raised my hand on that stage. I raised my hand because the Republican nominee is better than a president Kamala Harris us.
  • Speaker 2
    0:10:26

    Ladies and gentlemen, the good Republican, Nikki Haley. Give her a
  • Speaker 1
    0:10:36

    second look.
  • Speaker 2
    0:10:38

    We do have to give her a second look. This is, like, I I mean, I I I agree with everything you’re saying, but, like, I does it not make you a little bit happy to see her in some of these the CNN poll had her ahead of Rhonda Sanchez?
  • Speaker 1
    0:10:50

    Oh, it did. Oh, I missed that totally.
  • Speaker 2
    0:10:53

    I’m pretty sure it did.
  • Speaker 1
    0:10:54

    That’s, that’s fascinating. But what I love is that and this is this is This is how fucked up a world we live in. The primary question and the litmus test for all of these Republican candidates is the presumption that they’re going to lose. And it is asking them what will you do when you lose? And if you can’t answer what will I do when I lose correctly, then you can’t be considered to win.
  • Speaker 1
    0:11:28

    That means you’re in a cult. Right? Isn’t that basically, like, you’re in a cult? That this is the, you know, like, you you join a cult. You sign over all your property, then there’s no way to get out.
  • Speaker 1
    0:11:38

    You don’t have a car, so you can’t leave. It is crazy, and I don’t understand how a person who isn’t a monster could submit themselves to this instead of simply doing the right thing and saying, no. I’m sorry. I don’t like Joe Biden. I don’t like Joe Biden’s policies.
  • Speaker 1
    0:12:01

    I don’t think he’s been a good president. And I will either vote for him with a heavy heart or sit it out if if a convicted criminal is is the Republican nominee. Just say that. Yeah. I’ll vote for every Republican who isn’t a convicted criminal.
  • Speaker 1
    0:12:20

    There. Try that for on for size. Okay.
  • Speaker 2
    0:12:24

    I have many things to say back to you.
  • Speaker 1
    0:12:26

    Okay.
  • Speaker 2
    0:12:27

    One is, obviously, no one’s gonna say that. And if it the conviction is not going to make like, I th I think it’s funny when suddenly it’s like there’s this new bar. It’s like, But what about if he’s a convicted criminal? That’s why
  • Speaker 1
    0:12:41

    it’s only if he’s convicted.
  • Speaker 2
    0:12:43

    What about if he’s been indicted? What about if he says he’s gonna grab somebody by their junk forcibly. And, I mean, like, I what what is the okay.
  • Speaker 1
    0:12:52

    There’s What if he does an insurrection?
  • Speaker 2
    0:12:53

    And what
  • Speaker 1
    0:12:54

    if Like, what if he doesn’t accept
  • Speaker 2
    0:12:55

    the results of an What if he doesn’t engage in the peaceful transfer about? What is this new line? Like, these people have r r r as compromised as they could be.
  • Speaker 1
    0:13:03

    Let me tell you what if he’s convicted, it’ll be Yeah. But he’s appealing. His appeals aren’t done. Right? That’s right.
  • Speaker 1
    0:13:09

    He gotta let the legal process
  • Speaker 2
    0:13:11

    play out. He’s not physically in jail.
  • Speaker 1
    0:13:13

    Not physically right. He is he is on bail pending appeal. And unless he’s physically maybe if he was physically in jail.
  • Speaker 2
    0:13:20

    Oh, so that jury was rigged. It was a corrupt jury. It’s like, I just this is like this is silliness, on this. Number one. Number two, I think she
  • Speaker 1
    0:13:30

    was in second place in NCple, but
  • Speaker 2
    0:13:32

    I haven’t been able to I was listening to you mostly, but I was also trying to find the CNN. Here’s what I do know that, though. In the head to head against Biden in that CNN, She, everybody else was running, like, within a Ron DeSantis, Trump, they’re all. She was beating him forty nine percent to forty three percent. And this is the great conundrum for Republicans.
  • Speaker 2
    0:13:56

    Is that Republican a Republican normie cynical and asinine, though she may be just a terrible phony. She would do very well in a general I think she would win a general election. I do not think that but she can’t, like, I think Tim Scott could win a general election. But I don’t think these guys can get out they but they obviously can’t get out of a Republican primary.
  • Speaker 1
    0:14:21

    Well, here here’s a question. Could they win a general election if Trump does not concede his loss them. Right? I mean, this is for them, it is somebody wrote this piece for I think maybe who’s Christian Vander Raude wrote this for us, that it isn’t enough to beat Trump. You have to beat Trump, and Trump has to admit that you beat him.
  • Speaker 2
    0:14:40

    Right.
  • Speaker 1
    0:14:40

    And he to remain on-site and support you with his people.
  • Speaker 2
    0:14:44

    Yeah.
  • Speaker 1
    0:14:44

    And so simply getting more delegates and claiming the party’s nomination might not be enough to win the presidency. Right? If Trump is running around saying, this is I was treated so unfairly. This party is rigged, blah blah blah blah blah blah.
  • Speaker 2
    0:14:58

    This is an under discussed point on Trump. If it we would be discussing it more if DeSantis was, like, really in game or somebody else was really in the game against Trump, because it looked like Trump could be legitimately beaten. There would be a whole side conversation about, like, well, if Trump’s not the nominee, How many people does he take with him by, like, burning down the Republican nominee? And there would be a panic among Republicans about that. And I’m not sure I can’t prove this, but I think there’s, like, some psychological thing that took place when it we came clear.
  • Speaker 2
    0:15:32

    Maybe DeSantis isn’t gonna, like, run away with this thing or he’s not so good. And it’s like, but we might as well be trump because if it’s not Trump, he’s just gonna burn the whole thing down anyway.
  • Speaker 1
    0:15:41

    Did you ever read the dune books?
  • Speaker 2
    0:15:44

    No. Why would you even ask me that we met? Well, I
  • Speaker 1
    0:15:47

    don’t know. Maybe in high school and your honors English class, it was a the first June book was pretty good. Anyway, the the point is there’s a line in the first June book where, the the there’s a big fight over a natural resource. And, one of the characters explains that the person who has the power to destroy a natural resource is the one who controls it. And the natural resource here is the Republican Party.
  • Speaker 2
    0:16:17

    Yep.
  • Speaker 1
    0:16:17

    Trump has the power to destroy the party, and he doesn’t care. Right? I mean, what the hell does he care about the Republican Party? The actual Republican cons don’t have that power and they care very deeply about the party, and that’s why he’s in control. Right?
  • Speaker 1
    0:16:31

    This is, you know, at at very base. Moad Dim, for for those of you who are playing along who are sci fi nerds at home, not like Sarah Longwell, Yeah.
  • Speaker 2
    0:16:41

    I don’t know.
  • Speaker 1
    0:16:41

    It was a cool kid in high school.
  • Speaker 2
    0:16:45

    Okay. Wait. Hold on. I had oh, then the other thing I wanted to say about Nikki Haley is that she is doing a very specific thing with her campaign, which is that she is not running against Joe Biden. She is the one who is very aggressively doing a thing that I think will get done more and more, but is running against dead Joe Biden and and alive Kamala Harris.
  • Speaker 2
    0:17:07

    Right? She she barely acknowledges that Biden is, like, the person she’s running in. She talks about Kamala all the time. And it’s a weird It’s not weird. I understand why she does it, but I think she has calculated that unlike some of the white dudes that she shares the stage with, she has a unique, or she’s got a little bit of a shield in going after Kamala, directly and thinks that, like, that is a way to distinguish yourself.
  • Speaker 2
    0:17:41

    Like, look. I am like, it’s, like, without saying, I am a woman of color here, and that gives me an edge where I can maybe say things that other people can’t. Like, I feel like that’s the undertone of this. Do you agree with that?
  • Speaker 1
    0:17:57

    Yeah. I do. I I do wonder if that’s a winning strategy. Like, I understand it’s a strategy and it makes sense. But, like, do voters by that?
  • Speaker 1
    0:18:07

    I mean, like, it like, I’m sorry Joe Biden is the president. Right? It is a weird thing. It it’s like running for president and running against it’d be like a Democrat running against rush limbaugh, right, or Tucker Carlson instead of the Republican nominee, right, and saying that, like, look, John McCain may be the nominee of the Republican Party, but it’ll really be rush limbaugh pulling the strings. And, like, that that doesn’t work, I don’t think.
  • Speaker 2
    0:18:32

    So I also think it doesn’t work. I think it’s a weird calculation to make. And the reason is not I understand Larry they’re like, well, Kamala is even less popular. And we wanna route mine to people how old Joe Biden is. Nikki Haley has to prove that she is presidential level material, and that means beating Joe Biden.
  • Speaker 2
    0:18:50

    Unless he is not the president, like, the idea of, like, making people imagine it is a good general election strategy, but like in this primary, your bar that you are clearing and one of the reasons that Trump is is because he’s hasn’t come that that air of incumbency, right? He functions as an incumbent. He also functions as somebody who has passed the bar test of being president. And so you too as a pro that’s and that’s where the Santis And Haley, like, they’re all running real far behind on that test. So, like, the idea that she would compare herself to the vice president.
  • Speaker 2
    0:19:29

    But that’s who she really is trying to match up against is weird to me.
  • Speaker 1
    0:19:35

    Totally agree. Totally agree. And I you know, I I just don’t know that she’s still is really running for president. Right. I mean, she she feels like she’s running for vice president still.
  • Speaker 1
    0:19:46

    Because at some point, you would you would have to pivot to run against Trump. Like, if you were serious about winning —
  • Speaker 2
    0:19:52

    That’s right.
  • Speaker 1
    0:19:52

    — like, if she was really if she was, like, taking her second look at herself and thinking, well, hold on, wait a minute. I got a bump in the polls. I had a good debate. Maybe I could maybe I could make some noise and win this thing. Then she would be trying to take on the front runner in some way instead of sitting there hoping he dies.
  • Speaker 2
    0:20:09

    Yeah. Well, and here’s what’s weird about what she’s doing. She and Pence are both doing this. And and I guess maybe DeSantis a little bit right. They take these, like, side long shots at Trump, which, to me, just puts them in the sour spot.
  • Speaker 2
    0:20:25

    Right? Like, I mean, Pence is more direct, actually, than she But, like, the the quote that you read earlier is such a perfect distillation of how she’s been doing things. It’s like, well, Trump is deeply on, you know, trump is unpopular. She said that on the stage, like, one of the most unpopular presidents, but also she’ll support him. And also,
  • Speaker 1
    0:20:43

    But don’t worry, he can’t win.
  • Speaker 2
    0:20:45

    But don’t hate He can’t win. And so, like, she’s running for vice president, Right? She’s doing just enough to ensure that she is not the vice president.
  • Speaker 1
    0:20:54

    Yep.
  • Speaker 2
    0:20:55

    And but also not doing enough to ensure that she could really take on the front runner.
  • Speaker 1
    0:20:59

    Yeah. Yeah. It’s a it’s such a weird act. And I would say it is a reminder that in the aftermath of the debate, A lot of us. Like me, I think, like, Tim, like Mona, like Charlie Sykes watched Nicki, and we were like, yes, that was good.
  • Speaker 1
    0:21:17

    She had a good debate. And one of the things I think all of us said, even at the time, was this probably means that if people like us thought she had a good debate, that she’ll get, like, a small bump in the polls, but she has to distance herself from people like us. Right? So she can’t having having us think that she’s doing well is is, like, half poison, half half good. And since then boy, I mean, it I don’t know.
  • Speaker 1
    0:21:48

    I mean, if you’re a normie, it would be a It is hard to say. Yeah. No. I mean, yeah, I’ll still guess. Go with her, I guess.
  • Speaker 2
    0:21:59

    Yeah. I mean, I I would take I I would take Nikki Haley over to Sanchez.
  • Speaker 1
    0:22:05

    Oh, sure.
  • Speaker 2
    0:22:06

    I mean, trump, obviously, like No.
  • Speaker 1
    0:22:07

    We did it primary. Sure. No. But I mean, like, if she were to be the nominee, yeah, I mean, I, of course, I would still go Biden if she were the nominate, but, But for any normal, like, I think it’d be it makes it a little hard. But don’t worry because she’s not gonna be the nominee.
  • Speaker 1
    0:22:21

    That’s not
  • Speaker 2
    0:22:22

    that’s not I will never vote for Nikki Haley now. I will root for her. I would even, like, work to help her,
  • Speaker 3
    0:22:29

    in a primary if she felt like she was, like, getting in the zone. But, What what a way this is a thing I can never understand about people. It’s just the, like, total bargaining away of your own character, your own. Like, she knows how bad it is. Like, the
  • Speaker 2
    0:22:50

    these these people that know and that’s why this is why I can’t get on board with your pen stuff. Because the amount of moralizing that man has done over his entire career. To then build the permission structure for Donald Trump, and now to stand there and say the things that are true, because he’s known they were true all along. And then to caveat them with all the Trump Pence record is so blah blah blah. It is It is it’s the worst of all the worlds.
  • Speaker 2
    0:23:25

    And I feel that way about Haley too. Like they are I can I can make a distinction between the practical necessary effect of if she were able to be somebody who could beat Trump You would want that to happen because she is not a threat, but she is empty inside, as is pence? They are compromised deeply morally. Even Sununu, who you just said. I mean, normally, I’m the one kind of defending these people because of the practical, the pragmatist part of me, like, no, understands, why you need them and why.
  • Speaker 2
    0:24:00

    But like, man, just the part of me that is like, here’s the thing that’s right and here’s the thing that’s wrong. These guys have been wrong. They have they have compromised themselves forever.
  • Speaker 1
    0:24:11

    Hey, again. It’s JBL. The conversation goes on from there. If you wanna hear the rest of the show, head on over to Bullworth Plus and subscribe. We’d love to have you.
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