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Bonus Episode: South Carolina Circus Special

February 24, 2024
Notes
Transcript
Tim is joined by John Heilemann, Jennifer Palmieri, and Mark McKinnon, his former colleagues from “The Circus,” for a South Carolina primary preview. Plus, the prospects for a post-Trump GOP, and some advice for the Biden campaign: Normalize his gaffes.
This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors and omissions. Ironically, the transcription service has particular problems with the word “bulwark,” so you may see it mangled as “Bullard,” “Boulart,” or even “bull word.” Enjoy!
  • Speaker 1
    0:00:09

    Welcome to a bonus weekend. Southgoing a primary edition of the Bulwark podcast. I’m Tim Miller. I gathered the whole circus crew for the occasion. We got Jen Palmeri.
  • Speaker 1
    0:00:17

    She was communications director for Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton, Mark, mcat Mckinnon, was media advisor to w and McCain John Heilman, national affairs analyst for NBC News, author of game changing double down, some other mysterious pursuits.
  • Speaker 2
    0:00:31

    Y’all Bring on the clown.
  • Speaker 1
    0:00:32

    So good to see you.
  • Speaker 3
    0:00:33

    Bring on the clown.
  • Speaker 2
    0:00:34

    Most of them within the bounds of the law most.
  • Speaker 1
    0:00:38

    We are taping this on Friday afternoon. So there’s one one potential problem with that is that Southgoing to primary hasn’t happened yet, and some some of our good listeners might listen on Sunday or Monday. But the good news is I I think we all know what’s gonna happen. Haley’s gonna get schlonged by about somewhere between twenty and forty five points. So before
  • Speaker 2
    0:00:58

    Can we not say Schlonged in this context when it’s
  • Speaker 3
    0:01:00

    Donald Trump
  • Speaker 2
    0:01:00

    and if you
  • Speaker 4
    0:01:01

    handle it? You know, I I think Barack Obama got in trouble first
  • Speaker 1
    0:01:03

    then once.
  • Speaker 4
    0:01:03

    Okay. Right? Right? I
  • Speaker 1
    0:01:05

    apologize. Well, Nikki Haley’s gonna get beaten decisively between twenty and forty five points. I think. We can all stipulate that before the convo. Right?
  • Speaker 1
    0:01:13

    Memcat, do you do you wanna do you wanna offer a
  • Speaker 3
    0:01:16

    Yeah. Listen. I’ve I always thought that there should be something called the Al Gore rule, which is if you’re running for president, you should have to win your home state, although Donald Trump changed that equation. But Yeah. This and this is just a testament to just how much the Republican primary has changed that she can’t win in her own state.
  • Speaker 5
    0:01:31

    Can I
  • Speaker 2
    0:01:31

    just say one thing though about this site? Those are data point that I just wanna inject in this, which is I looked at this today.
  • Speaker 1
    0:01:36

    Please.
  • Speaker 2
    0:01:37

    Donald Trump has not had lower than a twenty point lead in South Carolina free in the past year. There’s, like, literally not a poll in one year in which he hasn’t been at least. He’s been between twenty and four a twenty to forty point lead for a whole year. There’s one pullback, like, I, like, in January of twenty twenty three where he was, they had, like, a seventeen point lead and every other pull he spent between twenty and forty.
  • Speaker 3
    0:01:59

    Yeah. She’s got plenty of time.
  • Speaker 1
    0:02:01

    No better time than now. No better time than present. Okay. So given that, I thought it would be fun to I gave you homework I assume Hyelman didn’t do it, but we’re gonna we’re gonna start with him first.
  • Speaker 2
    0:02:09

    I did it.
  • Speaker 1
    0:02:10

    And you did? You did great. And the the homework was, was if we had a circus this week, What would the show be called? And and do you have a theme song for it? You get bonus grade points if you had a theme song.
  • Speaker 3
    0:02:22

    I have a theme and a song, and they’re the same. What is it? Sarah Longwell my mind, James Taylor.
  • Speaker 1
    0:02:27

    Oh, okay. A little, you know, that Yes.
  • Speaker 4
    0:02:30

    It’s a different Sarah Longwell.
  • Speaker 1
    0:02:32

    Is that right? Where was James Taylor was thinking about?
  • Speaker 4
    0:02:35

    North Carolina.
  • Speaker 2
    0:02:36

    North Carolina. But, you know Yeah.
  • Speaker 4
    0:02:39

    Anyway, I didn’t know about the song. I gotta, like, do some things. Okay.
  • Speaker 1
    0:02:43

    You can go last. You have time to think about it, Kyleman? Thank you.
  • Speaker 2
    0:02:46

    I think that, that that Jen Palmer will definitely remember this. Mark Mckinnon will definitely remember you, Tim, as a student of history may remember this, although you’re too young to have experienced it. But at the end of the of the, at the end of the nineteen ninety six presidential campaign, when, when Billclin, with all of his problems, was spanking Bob dole. There got to be a period in the last, like, week or so. When dole was just so, there there were two things about the end of that campaign that were great.
  • Speaker 2
    0:03:12

    One was at the end of long of the day at, like, five o’clock, whatever you were out of the road. Dole would cut his speech to be off at a certain moment. And because of the time that they would have the for the curfew at National Airport, he would go. I’m sorry. The speech is now over.
  • Speaker 2
    0:03:23

    National, here we come. He’d run to the bus because he was just like, I’m done with that done with this shit. I’m not gonna have to stay in this in this place where I am. The other thing was he would he would just burst out. He had these outbursts.
  • Speaker 2
    0:03:33

    All the time. You would say where is the outrage? Where is the outrage? Where is the outrage? It would be my episode title because if you if you think about what’s the things that Trump has done and said in any other era in the in the South Carolina primary, you know, a South Carolina that is dominated by veterans and and, you know, has been idea that, you know, about Donald Trump sucking up to Vladimir Putin not saying boo about about Navalny’s assassination trashing Nikki Haley’s husband who’s actively deployed military person.
  • Speaker 2
    0:04:01

    They’ll be out I mean, you know, he he has just been an getting helped by a spy.
  • Speaker 1
    0:04:06

    Apparently, a Russian spy.
  • Speaker 2
    0:04:07

    He has been a non stop, flood of of of self aggrandizing Putin stroking gibberish and and and perfidy. And yet no one gives a fuck in South Carolina. Doesn’t give a fuck. Nothing’s changing in that race. She’s hitting him harder.
  • Speaker 2
    0:04:26

    And trying to gin up the outrage and is getting nowhere. There’s no traction for whatsoever. And, so that’s where’s the outrage would be my type with my episode title and my theme song for it would be Tim, this is right for you. For reasons you’ll understand in a moment. Would be, classic song about the pet shop boys called Being Boring.
  • Speaker 2
    0:04:42

    Which
  • Speaker 5
    0:04:42

    is pretty
  • Speaker 2
    0:04:43

    much just pretty much describes the entire Republican primary. I could give that that’d be a half season, or overarching sought themes on.
  • Speaker 1
    0:04:50

    Yeah. So boring. Was it could you imagine doing this show every week? What are you gonna talk about? It’s the most Alright.
  • Speaker 2
    0:04:55

    It’s the most flaccid lifeless sad deflated presidential campaign I’ve ever seen covered or hoped to ever witness again in my life.
  • Speaker 1
    0:05:03

    It is fair though. I could just before I get to you, Janet, this like, the where is the outrageous and this is a very Bulwark y pick. So it also fits for this podcast whereas the outrage, because well, because it’s it is hard to really kind of imagine that everyone has just gotten in line. And when I think about that episode title, I would point it more towards, you know, the kind of Republican establishment figures that just gave in right this time. Yep.
  • Speaker 1
    0:05:26

    You know, you have the you’re Tim Scott, and you can remember the South Carolina primary of sixteen. We have Marco and Haley and Scott all campaigning together. I mean, they could have at least tried to try. You know, you in the last week, Mike Gallagher just quit to Congress. I mean, like, of people that should be outraged or just either giving in or giving up.
  • Speaker 1
    0:05:45

    It’s pretty it’s pretty remarkable.
  • Speaker 3
    0:05:46

    By the way, I have a real I have a real vision of that primary, and a spectacularly visual evening when, Haley endorsed Rubio. There. And it was so cinematic, and they both looked so young and energetic. And I just thought, man, if this is the face of
  • Speaker 1
    0:06:04

    the Republican party Your ears got so big.
  • Speaker 2
    0:06:07

    Every single major Republican elected official in South Carolina except I think one congressman, right, is backing, Trump. Yeah.
  • Speaker 1
    0:06:13

    Al Norman, who’s an who’s
  • Speaker 2
    0:06:15

    an insurrectionist, yeah, who’s somehow still with Haley. I don’t really understand that. That’s sort of the great mysteries of our time, but it’s amazing that the whole South Carolina political establishment is just behind Trump, and it does and they don’t I mean, I’m standing out there by the US S Yorktown, looking at, I think about all the events I’ve been to with Republican candidates on that. And and all of them because it’s all about the military there. It’s all veterans, active duty military.
  • Speaker 4
    0:06:35

    And John Carey. That’s where John Carey announced his president.
  • Speaker 2
    0:06:38

    He did. That’s that’s that’s exactly right. But Republicans just always go there. Like every Republican Ted Cruz Brand Paul announced this campaign there, you know, newt gingrich, Rick Santorum, they all do events out there. It’s like the most trafficked venue in the state.
  • Speaker 2
    0:06:52

    For this good reason. It’s the one of the most great one of the most military states in the in the country, and and Trump has just been, like, just shitting on the military in every way imaginable, and no one cares. No. I mean, except for the people who already cared, the people who were already against Trump. They’re they’re all outraged, but, you know,
  • Speaker 4
    0:07:08

    it’s not yeah. But, I mean, thirty percent of the electic cares. It’s not nothing. Thirty percent of the republican electic.
  • Speaker 2
    0:07:13

    I mean, those people that had already decided that those are the people who are gonna be who are gonna be against Trump Andy trump part of the party is is outraged, but no one else is. No one of no persuadable votes. It’s not moving any votes around. Right? Again, to the point of his giant leading that state.
  • Speaker 2
    0:07:26

    He’s done the things that would normally be catastrophic, in South Sarah Longwell, and there’s no even a flutter in the numbers. You know?
  • Speaker 1
    0:07:34

    Alright, Jen. I saw you scrolling your Spotify. Did you come up with something?
  • Speaker 4
    0:07:39

    Yeah. So my my title so I think what’s important week is that it did it felt it felt like this is the week that Russia really broke through. Right? It, like, came full circle from two thousand sixteen where the house leadership, the big four. Right?
  • Speaker 4
    0:07:55

    The seven majority leader, seven minority leader, house speaker, and house minority leader were all brief on Russia interfering in the election. Prior to Labor Day, the administration wanted to make it public, Mitch McConnell said no. To this week where you have Navalny killed. You have the smirnoff House Republicans have now gone from being skeptical about intelligence from eight years ago to now passing on Russian intelligence to try to impeach the sitting president of the United States. So my title is gonna be smirnoff Smash, Smash, which is their new vodka seltzer.
  • Speaker 4
    0:08:31

    And my song, which as you know, I just came up with because I just with, you know, scrolled. Now, is sweet tea keeping with a veb beverage theme, which is a craven melon song, and they, unlike James Taylor, are from South Carolina Oh. It’s pretty good. That’s pretty good.
  • Speaker 1
    0:08:47

    That is pretty good.
  • Speaker 4
    0:08:48

    Yeah.
  • Speaker 2
    0:08:49

    Oh, great. That’s a great. That’s a great on the fly pull. Wow. Gens impressive.
  • Speaker 1
    0:08:55

    I’m impressed. That that is good. The Russian thing is I am cat aware, have you lost the ability to be outraged? I’m tying their last two questions together. Like, it is The smirnoff thing has had me in a state all week.
  • Speaker 1
    0:09:06

    I mean, it’s it’s pretty insane that the house Republicans are literally passing along fake Russian descent film. Where where where are you at on that
  • Speaker 3
    0:09:13

    Well, I’m I’m I’m in full Bob dole mode.
  • Speaker 2
    0:09:16

    He’s he’s pretty irish.
  • Speaker 3
    0:09:21

    But on on the topic of South Carolina, man, I just talk about a river of memories, you know, for all of us. I know. Just epic campaigns that that were so significant and, and determinative and, you know, comebacks you know, rallies. And this thing is just kinda petering out in a way that kinda, you know, flushes all those.
  • Speaker 1
    0:09:47

    It goes to the being boring that that Hamilton said would so you which side were you at on on O’O McCain and Bush? I mean, this that is the prime.
  • Speaker 2
    0:09:54

    He was involved in the in the destruction of John McCain.
  • Speaker 1
    0:09:56

    You’re on the bad side. Got a career.
  • Speaker 3
    0:09:58

    Do you remember the drunk debate? The the debates for people were drinking?
  • Speaker 2
    0:10:04

    Oh, yeah. Because because South Carolina used to be used to be able to get used to the people drink when they would have those Murtle Beach, the Republican crowds would always be drunk as fuck. And they’d be like screaming. There was no, or strain on the audience. There was a the the one in in twenty twelve the gingrich one where CNN asked about his extramarital affairs in twenty twelve.
  • Speaker 2
    0:10:22

    That was like everyone was drunk there in Charleston. I’m I’m not gonna be worth and the Myrtle Beach debates were always like everyone was everyone was rowdy and shit faced at those debates. Those were really fun.
  • Speaker 1
    0:10:30

    I’m just screaming both of my two presidential campaigns ended in South Sarah Longwell. On that estate, which would have been your good Jason Isabelle alternative tech for you, Jen. But yeah, I I I got to have
  • Speaker 5
    0:10:40

    a How did I not
  • Speaker 2
    0:10:41

    think that was gonna be
  • Speaker 5
    0:10:43

    Mettle rose. That’s super.
  • Speaker 1
    0:10:44

    We’re gonna have Almetto rose, stupid.
  • Speaker 4
    0:10:45

    Tomorrow night, radio city musical.
  • Speaker 2
    0:10:47

    Here’s this thing though that I I just the the it’s having spent a week there. This goes to MCAD’s point you know, which is and it’s true, obviously, the democratic side too. You go through Iowa, Nice, and then you have this New Hampshire, you know, at both of the they’re basically They’re basically they’re they’re basically kind of like gloves off states. They don’t really get, you know, they’re not down and dirty. Right?
  • Speaker 2
    0:11:06

    And the thing about South Carolina in both the democratic and Republican side is you would get down there and it was always roll.
  • Speaker 3
    0:11:11

    They let the dogs off the chains.
  • Speaker 2
    0:11:13

    Yeah. Right. The, like, the big red dogs off the leash. Right?
  • Speaker 5
    0:11:16

    And and
  • Speaker 2
    0:11:16

    it was like, you know, dirty politics and Democrats, every Republicans alike, a lot of, like, nastiness and the mailing, the mailers on the car windows, the the radio, the radio ads and, And it was, like, it was it was appalling sometimes, but always, like, electric and fun. You know, like, there was just a lot of energy there. You know? And and they were also often in the Republican side, decisive, but, you know, as somebody pointed out, South Carolina primary invented in nineteen eighty everybody who has everybody but new gingrich who’s won the primary has gone on to win the nomination. So it’s, like, in some ways, the decisive primary for Republican side.
  • Speaker 2
    0:11:50

    And being there for five days this week, I it was if I any I couldn’t believe that it could anything could be more desultory than Iowa, New Hampshire this year, but it was just it was, like, low energy Jeb
  • Speaker 5
    0:12:02

    had taken a look at this this week, Chad.
  • Speaker 2
    0:12:04

    There’s no Trump lawn signs. Like, even the Trump fans, like, he does one event a week. So, yeah, they all show up. They’ll do a giant rally tonight. A bunch of people show up, but look like energy.
  • Speaker 2
    0:12:12

    But he’s not been in the state all week. I mean, he’s about he flew in for the Laura thing. It’s the only other event he’s done all week. So it’s like, even the the energy of the Trump people in sixteen and in twenty, it’s just not there. It’s like there’s this this kind of acquiescent quality to the whole thing, where there’s just no energy anywhere.
  • Speaker 2
    0:12:29

    It’s like, you know, yeah, there’s a bunch of Nickahilly ads on the air, but no one gives a shit. Everyone is just basically like, we know what’s gonna happen here. You know, and and I think broadly, that’s how the country is about the whole race, which is sort of like
  • Speaker 6
    0:12:40

    Yeah. We
  • Speaker 2
    0:12:40

    don’t love the idea of Biden and Trump.
  • Speaker 3
    0:12:42

    So rerun, we don’t wanna see
  • Speaker 2
    0:12:43

    Yeah. And it’s and and I think it’s overstated, you know, the the thing that gets missed. A lot of people say the Democrats aren’t super psyched about Biden and there obviously are a lot of questions about Biden on a lot of voters. But I just even on the Trump side, you know, he’s got his hardcore base that are really nuts, but there’s a big chunk of the Republican part that’s sort of like, Yeah. He seems inevitable of I like it better than Biden, but they’re not, like, really you know, they’re not anti, but they’re not really pro.
  • Speaker 2
    0:13:08

    You know, there’s at least a third of the parties like And, man, it just makes for a really dissolute kind of like, you know, everyone just sort of shrugging their shoulders and walking around, which is not a lot of fun.
  • Speaker 1
    0:13:18

    Did you make it to the Meet Ballron event in South Carolina? Well, you are down there.
  • Speaker 4
    0:13:22

    Wait. Did he go?
  • Speaker 1
    0:13:23

    Just sad. He had one sad event in South Carolina this week. Was kind of like trying to stay in the mix, you know.
  • Speaker 4
    0:13:30

    Who was he campaigning for?
  • Speaker 1
    0:13:33

    Neither of them. It was like, issue based. Know, one of those groups, I think that it invited to him, to an event, but when he, when he was still in the race, he decided to go anyway.
  • Speaker 2
    0:13:43

    I want you to say this this phrase again. Did I go to a meatball run issues based event where he was campaigning for no one he went there to talk about issues?
  • Speaker 1
    0:13:51

    It seems like you were bored. It seems like you were born, maybe. Found it entertaining.
  • Speaker 3
    0:13:55

    Get caught on the, kinda on a on a phone call that got leaked out that he once again was trashing trump.
  • Speaker 1
    0:14:00

    Yeah. Yeah. There’s a Zoom call with his delegates where you he said he he wouldn’t didn’t wanna be VP. And then the it really has been the most heated exchange of the whole week has been, like, Lasavita Trump’s campaign manager tweet, yeah, dunking on Ron DeSantis who’s not even in the race on Twitter. That shows you how how week it’s been.
  • Speaker 1
    0:14:17

    What was, like, the Haley event like though? John. And he says clap, like, what who are there? Like, when you’re talking to people, is it Democrats that are there? Like, who’s there?
  • Speaker 2
    0:14:25

    I’ll I’ll say something that, like, not not that many Democrats. You know what it is. It is it reminded me. Uh-huh. It’s, like, a little bit, like,
  • Speaker 1
    0:14:31

    John Huntman.
  • Speaker 2
    0:14:32

    To John Huntman crowd, honest to god. Honestly god, like, We’re doing your
  • Speaker 1
    0:14:36

    great help.
  • Speaker 2
    0:14:37

    You know, it’s like
  • Speaker 1
    0:14:38

    my people the way
  • Speaker 3
    0:14:38

    I was with you, it’s my last South Carolina wind down. I was there.
  • Speaker 2
    0:14:42

    Remember, you know, it’s upscale. You know, she’s she’s she’s she’s got in that in the low country and the along the coast where she’s gonna over perform relative to the rest of the state, you know, and where lots of her money, there’s a bunch of got a bunch of wealthy backers down there who are still gonna keep funding the campaign going forward. There’s a little more enthusiasm for her there, but, you know, the events are basically, you know, couple hundred people. You know, if she gets five, a hundred, it’s a big event. And they’re it’s they’re not it’s not like they’re lifeless and dead, but they’re they’re very, they’re very doctors and and polo shirt kinda like that that sort of Mhmm.
  • Speaker 1
    0:15:17

    Yeah.
  • Speaker 2
    0:15:17

    You know, that that kind of of of the part of South Carolina. South Carolina is a very diverse income wise, culturally, and economically, very kind of diverse state. You can run all kinds of all kinds of all kinds of there’s redneck parts of that state, and there’s very upscale parts of that state, investment bankers, and And she’s got the upscale. That’s her thing. She’s she’s she’s living in in the space where, like, the Bill Bradley Boater of the Republican Party, you know, those are the kind of people who are there, and they’re and they’re perfectly pleasant, but they’re all they all know they’re kind of there to show her support, but they they know as well, their mails that she doesn’t have a chance.
  • Speaker 2
    0:15:49

    And do you have con Like
  • Speaker 5
    0:15:50

    a virtue segment?
  • Speaker 2
    0:15:51

    They’re like, yeah. They’re like, we’re here to support Nicki because we think it’s important she’s in this race, but they’re not like nobody’s deluded that they think she’s gonna win.
  • Speaker 1
    0:15:59

    I didn’t get to give you guys my title. Do you want it? Yes. Okay. I I had I’ve been thinking about account with the pun.
  • Speaker 2
    0:16:06

    I know
  • Speaker 1
    0:16:07

    how I’m in, like, puns, which was last rites. And my last rights of this was I tried to make it about broader, and it’s about Nikki, of course, But I really think that, like, the Nikki Haley Bush party has been on in hospice for kind of a while now. Yeah. But, like, she was the best next representative of it, really. Like, that that could potentially be up and coming.
  • Speaker 1
    0:16:29

    And for her to go to her home state and lose by whatever. Twenty five points. It’s maybe the official end, death. We can do a time of death for the bush party at, twenty twenty four.
  • Speaker 3
    0:16:40

    Jimmy Carter’s been in hospice for a year. Give Give
  • Speaker 1
    0:16:42

    her a little more time. What what do we think? McKinnon Jen, is it a death of that party, or could it could it come back? Can we put the gravestone on it?
  • Speaker 3
    0:16:51

    Well, I’m all for her plugging away. Just, you know, when she’s got money, put any gas in the tank, just fly the flag, just say we’re still here. I mean, I know we’re on an island and there’s a few survivors left, but it’s important to send the message. And our friend James Carvel, as you recall in the last episode of our last show, so the era of strategic certainty is over. And and that may be the only true thing about this election.
  • Speaker 3
    0:17:14

    And who knows what the hell’s gonna happen? I just think being the last person standing, and even if you thirteen delegates. Who knows?
  • Speaker 1
    0:17:20

    Jen, is it dead?
  • Speaker 4
    0:17:21

    Is it r I g h t or r r I t e s? Because r I g h t Yeah. That that also with the, you know, nearby state of Alabama that That’s
  • Speaker 2
    0:17:31

    the whole thing with puns is that they can you could spell them either ways.
  • Speaker 3
    0:17:34

    That’s where our editor the backup and do it over.
  • Speaker 1
    0:17:36

    You know, divya could decide.
  • Speaker 4
    0:17:37

    Yeah. I do the little curs divya would occur. Yeah. She would, like, have the cursors back up with that. I feel like it’s been gone for a while.
  • Speaker 4
    0:17:44

    Gonna morph into something else. Right? It’s just like, so I don’t know if that was the end of anything because it’s, like, I feel that that that thirty percent hasn’t know where to go. I think it is good that she’s staying in even if she stays in all the way to the convention just because having a Republican make those arguments against Trump like, really helpful even with just debt riling up Democrats or or or independence. I just Yeah.
  • Speaker 4
    0:18:08

    I’m just not sure what those people are gonna become. What are you, Tim? You’re one of those but what are you?
  • Speaker 1
    0:18:13

    That’s over for I mean, it’s over for me.
  • Speaker 4
    0:18:15

    I think I know, but are you a I are you a democrat? No.
  • Speaker 1
    0:18:18

    No. I mean, I so the only Republican I voted for since twenty sixteen, is a guy named Stephen Wags Pack who ran in Louisiana in the first in the first round who had no chance to win?
  • Speaker 2
    0:18:28

    To see if I
  • Speaker 1
    0:18:28

    have a monocle. Yeah. But exactly. But for one hopeless man with a Mona Charen the in the first round, So you tell me what I am. I mean, am I a democrat?
  • Speaker 1
    0:18:37

    Like, I don’t know. If I lived in Maryland, there are a handful of states left where I might have voted for a looking, but I I think that and I think that a lot of these people are your Brian Kemp. Some of them are swing voters. So your Kemp warnock voter, but some of them are are practically Democrats now, functionally Democrats.
  • Speaker 3
    0:18:52

    Here’s an interesting little data point, which and you think about, you know, the party and who’s part of it and what is it in the future. And and I would I’ve been looking, thinking about gen z voters for, like, a little project I’m thinking about. And, and, you know, I was thinking about the, you know, the, obviously, the the Biden gen z voters in the in the split and the Democratic party and all that. And I thought about, you know, Trump’s gen z voters, but I was trying to think about anti trump gen z voters. There’s no anti trump, gen z voters.
  • Speaker 3
    0:19:20

    If you’re gen z, you’re either trump or you’re right. Yeah. Exactly.
  • Speaker 2
    0:19:23

    If you’re at this
  • Speaker 3
    0:19:23

    right point. You’re Trump. Don’t know any other party.
  • Speaker 1
    0:19:26

    They don’t
  • Speaker 4
    0:19:27

    know any other party. Yeah.
  • Speaker 2
    0:19:28

    Let let me ask you this question, Tim. Here’s the the counter thing on Haley. Which I was part of the reason I put this in the this piece I did for morning, Joe today, because Dick Carpulian, who’s the Democrat, but was smart about this and just laid out a theory. Right? And theory was, you know, She stays in the race, and there is a chunk of the party that’s still in either hostile the Trump or kind of in different, and people, you know, people’s actual political commitments are way overstated by all of us.
  • Speaker 2
    0:19:54

    Like, you know, the these there’s these stories about the the the anti trump college voters who, you know, got upset about the insurrection and now they’re back with Trump. It’s like people, like, most people in America don’t give a fuck about politics enough, and they they they could change a lot over the course of the next eight years once Trump is gone. And his kind of thesis was if if she’s right that he’s gonna lose when it’s over, she’s gonna have been out there, gone to a lot of states, been out on the stump in a lot of places. She’s always been good at raising money. This get this gets to a question, which I’m trying to get to, which is not his thing is, like, trump is gone now.
  • Speaker 2
    0:20:28

    The party’s up for grabs. There’s gonna be you know, a bunch of people contesting for leadership of it and what it actually is. And I think his point was not, well, Nikki Hilly’s obviously gonna be the next standard bearer. Her point was more kinda like it puts her in the conversation around Yeah. Where does the party go, and she’s gonna be a familiar face who’s gonna be able to say, I told you so.
  • Speaker 2
    0:20:48

    And, like, I was right. You were wrong. He’d, like, fucked us again. We lost again. And, and, and, I guess, my what that premise premised on is this notion that at that after Trump, that there will be a big conversation about the future of what was once you guys were both attached to their public party?
  • Speaker 2
    0:21:06

    Do you think that’s true? Or do you think after Trump, the trumpism just marches on? I I’d I’d you know, I’m inviting you to speculate. You know, I don’t like speculation, but I’ll invite you both speculate because that’s an interesting question to me.
  • Speaker 1
    0:21:17

    Yeah. I think MCAT will maybe be more optimistic than me as is his nature. So we’ll see if not, but I’ll go first briefly. I just think, like, if you said to me, Hi. I’m John Hallman from the future.
  • Speaker 1
    0:21:27

    I’ve I’ve I’ve come in a time machine and, and it’s twenty thirty two. And the Republican nominee in two thousand and thirty two is one of these three people. Nikki Haley, Matt Gates, or Tucker Carlson. I’ll tell you that Nikki would be by far my third choice. And that draft on the most likely person for it to be.
  • Speaker 2
    0:21:45

    Is that just gut or is that based on a is that just gut or based on a an assessment of
  • Speaker 1
    0:21:50

    No. It’s based on no. It’s it’s a it’s based on assessment of what mcat was talking about about gen z and younger voters, an assessment about who is checked into the party versus who has checked out. I mean, I think Dick Carpoolian’s talking to a lot of people who are are not really representative of what the real party Yeah. They’re older people who are kind of vestigial Republicans that are still part of their identity.
  • Speaker 1
    0:22:11

    But if you’ve in the last ten years, if you said, oh, I’m a Republican now, you like Trump or something like it. Right? Maybe it’ll be a softer version. Maybe it won’t be quite as crazy or quite as deranged or orange or whatever, but you want something kind of like it. You don’t want Nikki.
  • Speaker 1
    0:22:25

    You were a Democrat when the Nikki type of Republicans were in charge. And then if you’re the type of person that likes Nikki, many of them, we when you talk about how people don’t have these pull it goal attachment as strong as we think. I think that’s true. I think there are a lot of people just looking at my friend group from high school who all voted for w, and all voted for Biden with one or two ex exceptions who don’t re listen to the fucking Bulwark podcast even though I beg them to. None of them, like, none of them had big identity crises about this.
  • Speaker 1
    0:22:53

    They just they were for George w Bush and they were for Romney and then one day they’re like, guess not? Guess I’m for Joe Biden now. And and there are a lot of those folks out there too. So the makeup of a party, I think, has just changed too permanently for her. I I I would love to be wrong.
  • Speaker 1
    0:23:07

    I’ve been wrong a lot, but that’s just my my how I would project it. I’m Kath. Do you have a more any more optimistic outlook?
  • Speaker 3
    0:23:14

    Yeah. I’ve I’ve got a rosier version that doesn’t surprise you. I I think that there is a a real chance that Trump loses, and then he will have lost in twenty, twenty two, twenty four.
  • Speaker 2
    0:23:25

    Eighteen. Don’t forget eighteen.
  • Speaker 3
    0:23:27

    Eighteen eighteen. And and lost the the House, the Senate, and the presidency for the first time in a hundred years since Grove, Cleveland, and that some they might start to finally get a clue that maybe this formula isn’t working. I also don’t think that I mean, I think Bannon is, you know, I think he’s right about a lot about just kinda being a movement and it could move on past Trump. And I also think that Trump is such a unique singular figure that I don’t think anybody else is going to be able to carry that standard forward. It’s I I’ve always thought we’re it’s gonna have the party’s gonna have to be burned down and resurrected from the ashes.
  • Speaker 3
    0:23:58

    And the two questions is what comes up from that. And Nikki Haley, at that point, will have, you know, some really good notches in her in her belt. You know, she will have, you know, gone through this process as the second person standing and raised a ton of money. That run a pretty good campaign, gained a lot of credibility. And despite what Don Lemmon says, she will not be way past her prom.
  • Speaker 3
    0:24:19

    She’ll be she’ll be fifty.
  • Speaker 1
    0:24:21

    Don’t catch in strays.
  • Speaker 4
    0:24:24

    You know, but the thing is that the the person who finishes second, all these things that they can be the next, person who finishes first, and they’re not. They’re just the person who came in second the last time around, you know, but It
  • Speaker 2
    0:24:34

    used to be in the rep in the Republican party, it used to be. That used to be true. It’s just, you know, trump just blew all that up. Right? I mean, you know, you know, Rami and
  • Speaker 4
    0:24:41

    Rami and Rami? Was that true for
  • Speaker 5
    0:24:46

    Rami? That’s
  • Speaker 4
    0:24:46

    true. You’re right. You’re right.
  • Speaker 3
    0:24:48

    If he loses, and I think, you know, Republicans, among the thing of the messages at the beginning is that maybe we should nominate a woman, and Nicki’s been through this drill. And she’s She’s a proven warrior.
  • Speaker 4
    0:24:57

    Yeah. But it’s like, if they’re gonna reject Trump, it’s like, I think you’re gonna have to have somebody who had no connection to him. You know? She was his ambassador to the UN. She propped him up.
  • Speaker 4
    0:25:06

    She propped him up when it when he needed it. I think, like, you know, bring on, like, I don’t know, like David Holt from Oklahoma city or somebody,
  • Speaker 5
    0:25:14

    you know?
  • Speaker 1
    0:25:14

    Right. That’s my boy David Hole.
  • Speaker 5
    0:25:16

    Is that right?
  • Speaker 1
    0:25:16

    You’re really pandering. You’re pandering to the Bulwark.
  • Speaker 4
    0:25:19

    Oh, I
  • Speaker 1
    0:25:19

    did not. The last remaining the last remaining Bulwark publican. They’ll call the city man.
  • Speaker 4
    0:25:24

    He seems, he seems good. Like, you know, he’s, like, a problem solver, you know, like, getting stuff done. By the way,
  • Speaker 2
    0:25:29

    she still says she’s gonna pardon him. She still says she’s gonna pardon him if she gets if she if she were present.
  • Speaker 4
    0:25:34

    Yeah.
  • Speaker 1
    0:25:36

    I need to get Jen’s opinion about the Biden discourse, but I have one more thing about Haley first before we we lose everybody. You said on morning, Joe, that you, think someone told me this, so I haven’t actually seen it. So it could this is a game of telephone. Something about Nikki, maybe third party, maybe that there could be a no labelsy thing. There’s some buzz about that.
  • Speaker 1
    0:25:56

    What’s your what what was that? What was the context of
  • Speaker 2
    0:25:58

    said that there was I think what I said was that there was that there had been the way that she’s handled that. There there’s been speculation about it, and that’s true. And so, like, the, there’s been, I don’t believe that that’s true, but there has been speculation about it and there’s speculation because she’s been asked about it and she keeps saying very, very self consciously I’m not thinking about that right now. I’ve given no thought to that. What I’m pursuing right now is the Republican nomination, which is like the kind of thing that people say when they wanna leave the door open to it.
  • Speaker 2
    0:26:23

    Right? I would say, you know, that if you believe Nikki Haley is is and I say this gen, not in a in a loaded gender way, I think you know, I think most politicians are highly ambitious creatures, but she’s very ambitious that a lot of people think she’s calculating. And part of the reason she’s been ideologically so all over the place is because she’s constantly attacking from one thing to another in terms of what her perceived advantages at that moment that that, you know, that you look at no labels and you say, the no labels candidate is not gonna be president in twenty twenty four. It’s not gonna win. And and the no labels candidate is not gonna be then is not gonna become the Republican candidate.
  • Speaker 2
    0:26:57

    If they become first, the no label candidate. And so there’s no way if you think you wanna be the leader of the Republican Party in some reconstituted thing, if that’s you’re playing the long game or if you’re playing the short game and you wanna be president, being the no labels candidate is not the way to do that. And so it’s it’s not I think where she ends up. There is one alternative view of this, which is that being the no labels candidate, if you decided, what you wanted to do is make money. And, like, corporate boards was your play.
  • Speaker 2
    0:27:20

    You’re gonna lead politics to the end of this. Like, going to do the no labels thing would be a great credential to go and be to connect to a lot of rich donors. I’m I’m again, I’m just saying I’m saying very people people look at her financial motivations. That’s another prism that you get from the South Carolina people. They’re like, very financially motivated.
  • Speaker 2
    0:27:37

    If she decided that what she wanted was a pathway to corporate boards, that would open up that. Like, basically, I’m giving up politics. I’m just gonna do this because that is obviously what, you know, a lot of the no labels support comes from, you know, that kind of crowd, the corporate, the crowd, and the people who have a lot of connections to corporate boards. I don’t think that’s what she’s doing, but but I I just give you the that’s I’ll give you the loanings. That’s the whole discussion around Nikki and and and and their labels.
  • Speaker 4
    0:28:01

    Kat, what do you think?
  • Speaker 3
    0:28:02

    I think it’s unlikely that she would, go that route. Ex with the exception that if if she made a calculation that there really was no future beyond Trump, but that that Trump is the future of their bomb party, whether he wins or loses that and that she’s that she’s, you know, she burned her ship on the shore, and she can’t go back. And that there’s no route forward in the Republican Party. I think it would I think she’d look at it. And and it wouldn’t make sense for and and by the way, I think it’s a Haley led third party ticket could be trouble.
  • Speaker 3
    0:28:37

    I mean, I think it would be competitive.
  • Speaker 2
    0:28:38

    I will say that if you listen to the speech she gave when she said she wasn’t gonna drop out, if you listen to what she actually said, you were the pre if you were the the Martian from the Future or whatever, Tim. And you just landed and you said, okay. What is this person angling for? Her denunciation of Trump and Biden is equal. I mean, she does She is a no labels message right now, which is, you know, the country isn’t one of either one of these people, biden’s too far to the left, trump’s too far to the right.
  • Speaker 2
    0:29:01

    They’re totally divisive. We need to have unity. I need their need I mean, she’s She’s giving a speech that a no labels candidate could give if you just listen to the speech itself on the substance. So I think that’s part of what’s fueled some people’s thinking about this is that she is in the no label slot. That’s what she’s that’s the message she’s running on right now, even though she’s trying to say she’s a Republican, you know?
  • Speaker 1
    0:29:21

    I’m surprised nobody’s pulled it. I’m surprised
  • Speaker 3
    0:29:23

    I pulled it.
  • Speaker 1
    0:29:24

    And as because I’m cutting out, we’ve gone round and round on this because I’m pretty I’ve been hostile to no labels setting. Most of the candidates have been floated. I look at them and say, these these people are mostly gonna take from Biden. The Haley case is interesting in that, you know, if she you’d say that if you think about it, she has a third of the party, you know, or, you know, thirty to thirty percent of the vote. You know, probably five to ten percent of those people max are getable for buying them, and then there’s another twenty percent that are more rank and file traditional Republicans, she might I guess all I’m saying is unknown.
  • Speaker 1
    0:29:55

    I don’t know. She might hurt Biden too. But I think it’s it’d be more interesting than the other names out there as far as conceivably pulling from Trump.
  • Speaker 2
    0:30:04

    Most of the no labels people are people who would hurt biden unequivocally. And, and she was one who you’d have to at least to get through. It’s not obvious. It’s not obvious that she might, you know, hurt. She she could conceivably take away more Republican votes than democrat votes.
  • Speaker 2
    0:30:14

    That’s right. That makes sense to me. Wonder if he I wonder if I wonder if somebody in Trump people are polling it. I bet they are.
  • Speaker 1
    0:30:20

    If you’re listening and you have that leakage to us.
  • Speaker 3
    0:30:22

    To their credit, I will I will just say here, I’ll I’ll candidly, that I as you know, and I say repeating, I have no official role in the labels and haven’t in a long time. But I do call and talk to him occasionally, and And I I asked that question. Well, have you pulled, Nikki Haley? And and to their credit, they like, we don’t pull. That’s not you know, we’re not we’re we don’t do that.
  • Speaker 3
    0:30:42

    That’s not Okay.
  • Speaker 1
    0:30:45

    Okay. Is
  • Speaker 3
    0:30:45

    it important to
  • Speaker 4
    0:30:46

    decide themselves?
  • Speaker 1
    0:30:47

    This podcast is not gonna end up in a DOJ report.
  • Speaker 5
    0:30:50

    Five people are gonna do five film.
  • Speaker 3
    0:30:53

    And you think that’s the worst in the system that produces the two geriatrics? I don’t know.
  • Speaker 1
    0:30:57

    Jen, if we had the show last week, you know, I think that the the golden goose would have been Jen and Esre Klein. Sitting down. I don’t know. In Brooklyn somewhere. I don’t know.
  • Speaker 1
    0:31:09

    I’m trying to picture this. Like, you know, what what how do you think that conversation play would have played out? Where where what do you feel about it?
  • Speaker 2
    0:31:16

    A boy. Oh boy. Oh, boy.
  • Speaker 4
    0:31:18

    Also, I don’t know if you know, do you know that I that I wrote a response, a very polite response to Ester Klein. I did I wrote a I wrote I wrote a very polite polite response for I mean, it is and I have to say I think Esther Klein really helped, it he helped Democrats he helped he helped Biden because it’s just you know, if you if you talk to someone who for five seconds, who had ever worked on a presidential campaign, you would understand why it is bonkers to think that, like, the great move now when you have a hundred and thirty million dollars that a presidential campaign is sitting on and or in building organizations in, in battleground states that you should wait until the middle of August, like, put at the hundred and thirty million dollars aside, not build any kind of coordinated organization. And then, like, hope that you’re divided, that that after your pre your sitting president admits defeat by resigning or saying he’s not going to run, that you can, you know, resurrect some kind of strong campaign to take on Donald Trump with eleven weeks to go.
  • Speaker 4
    0:32:16

    It’s just it’s just So
  • Speaker 1
    0:32:18

    Lincoln.
  • Speaker 2
    0:32:19

    It worked for Lincoln. Bill Crystal pointed that out this week. Abe Lincoln. Especially, this is the record of broker conventions producing, producing, successful nominees is, like, like, somebody please point to the last time that’s happened. We got Yeah.
  • Speaker 2
    0:32:32

    Way back to, like, and to
  • Speaker 1
    0:32:33

    all bowman charging the stage with some pro home aspro to It’s gonna be a while while Josh Shapiro tries to take the nomination from the first Bulwark vice president. That’s all gonna go real great. That’s gonna be a wonderful scene.
  • Speaker 2
    0:32:46

    And another police, right, another police riot in Grand Park. Yeah. That’ll be great.
  • Speaker 4
    0:32:49

    Yeah. So I think so it has helped. And then the the other thing I feel like in the last ten days since the her report. Now the her report, you know, some people were like, oh, this is good. They got the Biden campaign got their crucible over early.
  • Speaker 4
    0:33:02

    It’s like, well, no. That just showed you, like, how bad it’s gonna get when his vulnerability around his age comes into, like, the cross hairs. Right? It’s tough. But at least we they, like, got through that, and I think they are definitely he is out more.
  • Speaker 4
    0:33:17

    He’s also more relevant right now because he’s in an fight with Trump. So you see more of him. I think seeing more of him even when he screws up is important because we understand like, oh, he knows what’s going on. He, like, you know, he’s a he he talks to the he talks to the press most days. He does q and a, q and a’s with press on most days.
  • Speaker 4
    0:33:34

    This doesn’t necessarily get covered. So I think it feels a little it feels stabilized.
  • Speaker 3
    0:33:40

    Jennifer, I’ll I’ll just say completely anecdotally. That just in the last week or two, I feel like I’ve heard and seen Biden more.
  • Speaker 4
    0:33:48

    A lot. Yeah.
  • Speaker 3
    0:33:49

    In a good way. Yeah. You know, it’s just like, oh. Right. It wasn’t, you know, some very it was just like something sort of normal.
  • Speaker 3
    0:33:54

    It was like, oh, he’s normal and he can do that.
  • Speaker 4
    0:33:56

    Yeah. He does. You know, he walks and talks to the press on most days. And that is and I think partly it’s he’s getting covered more because it’s like, you know, Russia and Ukraine and, you know, seeing Navalny’s widow and Job’s about his sex life. That was good.
  • Speaker 4
    0:34:07

    Job’s about his sex life.
  • Speaker 2
    0:34:11

    Three of you guys know what it’s like because you’ve all been involved in managing campaigns and dealing with with with with communications. If you if somebody says to you, something that’s that I think in this case is unequivocally true, but if you heard this and you were running the communications operation for for for for Joe Biden, you would be like, It’s like the reality is you’ve got to normalize his mistakes. They have to become Yes. They have to become around the middle. The only way for this to work, he’s gonna be making mistakes be looking old.
  • Speaker 2
    0:34:36

    He’s gonna be doing shit. He’s gonna make mix stuff up. He’s gonna make mistakes for the rest of the campaign. If you make it you have to make it, like, he makes them every day and people see it, and it’s It’s still okay.
  • Speaker 3
    0:34:46

    That’s how you make
  • Speaker 2
    0:34:47

    it because it becomes isolated things where every time he makes a mistake, people can focus on it. I would, like, flood the zone with Biden. I’d like to be, like, get it. It’s a huge risky thing to do, but, like, the only way you can survive this is to make it so that when he makes the mistakes, people shrug as opposed to because they’re like Things are so
  • Speaker 4
    0:35:05

    Oh, bad, Joe.
  • Speaker 2
    0:35:06

    Things are strange. Joe, he does that. Yeah. He’s grandpa, Joe. It’s fine.
  • Speaker 2
    0:35:09

    He’s still the but the ship estate’s still floating and, you know, the economy’s still getting better and we’re still
  • Speaker 4
    0:35:14

    He’s still holding natoed again that that gather and, like, dealing with doesn’t have their own.
  • Speaker 3
    0:35:18

    All of them are scared, but he still knows who to call it NATO. We’re
  • Speaker 2
    0:35:21

    putting sanctions on Putin, and he’s meeting with Navalny’s widow, and he’s doing all that stuff. And so he Fuck some shit up every day. Like, big deal. Move on. He’ll be more like trump then, where, like, people just write off all of Trump’s literacy because it’s also normalized.
  • Speaker 2
    0:35:32

    You gotta get there, and it’s gonna be painful.
  • Speaker 1
    0:35:34

    There is an asymmetry on the attacks though. Trump, on truth today had a little meme up there where it’s like Biden is is shuffling, and then he goes into, you know, that that old folks home commercial visiting angel. It’s like, Trump is posting this on on his social media. Biden’s campaigning, like, you know, has the has just the decorum to not do that. Right?
  • Speaker 1
    0:35:59

    So that I I worry about. I don’t know if people are ready for that. Like, the the just the low blow TikTok and attacks are gonna be just off
  • Speaker 3
    0:36:08

    the charts.
  • Speaker 4
    0:36:08

    I mean, they’re gonna be they’re brutal. I mean, if you look on You’re already
  • Speaker 3
    0:36:11

    out there though.
  • Speaker 4
    0:36:11

    They’re brutal. Yeah. They’re yeah.
  • Speaker 2
    0:36:14

    If somebody said to me they went and spent some time where they just went and just went on TikTok and searched for Biden content, just just to see, like, what just just to do the deep dive of just, like, what’s what’s out there and, like, What are young people seeing if they live on TikTok? And and this person who was, like, a generally, like, not a anti biid message. I’m a curious person who wondered what why is there this youth, the the gen z problem? Like, just like, oh, let’s go look at TikTok and really dive in there. Spend a week on TikTok and just look for all the Biden content you could.
  • Speaker 2
    0:36:41

    Not political content from campaigns or operatives, but just the normal shit that people are making. And he’s like, it is fucking merciless. It’s just a merciless Well,
  • Speaker 4
    0:36:49

    in the Salada Gaza.
  • Speaker 2
    0:36:51

    Yes. But but, yeah, yes. But but it’s, like, it’s, like, there’s nothing positive. I mean, it’s, like, it’s a nonstop flood of of mockery and criticism And, again, I’m not pointing at any finger. I’m just I’m just raising the fact that that’s out there.
  • Speaker 2
    0:37:03

    It’s not like, you know, it’s not like it’s not already there. You know, people are seeing a lot of stuff that’s negative about
  • Speaker 4
    0:37:07

    It’s the biggest thing. Like, the people that, like, that are outside of the campaign, that have raised money and worry about, you know, what’s happening on the outside, the biggest this is the biggest hole revenue abscesses over is, what do you do about TikTok?
  • Speaker 1
    0:37:19

    Okay. One rapid fire, then a final circus question. My rapid fire right now today, percent chance, Joe Biden, Donald Trump, other, are taking the oath of office next January.
  • Speaker 4
    0:37:31

    We have to do percentages too. We can’t just say Biden.
  • Speaker 1
    0:37:33

    Percent I’ll get I can go first. I’m like fifty seven Biden forty two Trump, one other.
  • Speaker 4
    0:37:42

    Wow. I’m fifty three Biden.
  • Speaker 2
    0:37:43

    That’s very bullish. That’s really bullish on Biden. Jesus.
  • Speaker 1
    0:37:47

    You’re lower than fifty three. Well, man. Yeah.
  • Speaker 4
    0:37:49

    Fifty I’m fifty three Biden. I think that the
  • Speaker 2
    0:37:52

    Like, forty nine forty six, forty nine forty six five.
  • Speaker 3
    0:37:56

    Yeah.
  • Speaker 2
    0:37:56

    Because one of them because because one of them could die.
  • Speaker 3
    0:37:59

    Yeah. I’m with John. Yeah. I’m forty eight forty six six.
  • Speaker 1
    0:38:04

    Well, we’re not gonna have being boring then in the fall. No. So we can have a much better we’re not gonna have a much better episode theme song in the fall if we, if we come back.
  • Speaker 2
    0:38:13

    Everybody says this and they want you covering the primary or being they’re in the world you like, but the stakes are so high. And people are like, yeah, I know the stakes are high, but right now, we’re, we’re going through this part, which is like the annoying you know, trump will get get to twelve, fifteen, you know, in the middle of March. And by the time we get to the fall, the stakes, even though people are not psyched about the choice, and a lot of people are like, not loving the the two nominees, the stakes will kick in at that point. I think it will suddenly be able to start to feel more urgent, a lot more
  • Speaker 3
    0:38:40

    The song is not suite Sarah Longwell
  • Speaker 1
    0:38:43

    not suite calling. Circus. Circus things. I I want one thing for something you miss being out there or a memory, something people should search for on YouTube, a sir, a favorite circus moment.
  • Speaker 4
    0:38:54

    You know, here’s here’s one small thing that I would search for on YouTube that I think that the Biden campaign should look for, should use as an ad.
  • Speaker 1
    0:39:03

    K. I’m ready.
  • Speaker 4
    0:39:04

    Our Israel Gaza episode where he went to Israel at the beginning, Divia Chungi, who, was the head editor of the show. Her team did this cold open that was Biden through the years. And I think it started with, like, him meeting.
  • Speaker 1
    0:39:20

    Jesus. No. Moses.
  • Speaker 4
    0:39:23

    Jesus. No. Indira Gandhi.
  • Speaker 2
    0:39:27

    Moses Moses.
  • Speaker 4
    0:39:28

    You know,
  • Speaker 1
    0:39:28

    as a
  • Speaker 4
    0:39:28

    as a young senator, meeting Indira Gandhi in Israel, and it, like, went through the entire you know, for his fifty year career through a foreign policy lens and all the world leaders he’s met with and all the situations he’s been in. And then When you arrive to the present, you’re like, of course, he’s the guy. And that was so that was, winter of No. That was most recently. That was fall of, twenty, twenty three, the Israel episode.
  • Speaker 4
    0:39:57

    Look at that.
  • Speaker 3
    0:39:58

    I missed the extreme balance and polar opposites of being at the Kremlin watching John take on a a KGB super operative and and just, I mean, seeing the best at their craft going at it. Juxtaposed with being in a County Fair in Marjorie Taylor Greens district watching something being shot out of a tenant.
  • Speaker 1
    0:40:20

    Did you see the January six pinball? We also missed CPAC. I had some CPAC clips we didn’t get to, but that could’ve also been in this week’s episode. There was a January six pinball at CPAC this week. You know, it’s devolving.
  • Speaker 1
    0:40:32

    Hyleman, find last thoughts, memories, words of wisdom.
  • Speaker 2
    0:40:37

    I miss, Jen’s dark and foreboding, apocalyptic view of the world, which, always reminds me that there’s someone who thinks things are more fucked even than me. I’m I’m Tim, I miss your fashion sense. They’re the pearls. We’re having a routine access to pearls on boys. The pearl necklaces are, you know, pearl necklaces are top of the line.
  • Speaker 2
    0:40:58

    And it and the common thing to say would be to say that you miss MCcat’s hats, but I don’t miss MCcat’s hats. I miss MCcat’s hat boxes. No one knows what it’s like to be on the road with Mark and where all these hats have to be carried around in their own pieces of of suitcase. So each one has its individual suitcase. That, like, is was, like, mcat goes to Moscow.
  • Speaker 2
    0:41:16

    And I’m, like, the all of the overhead bins are filled with these steps in box hat boxes. I’m, like, it’s the craziest thing I’ve ever seen, but I do miss that.
  • Speaker 4
    0:41:23

    Speaking of CPAC is just I just have to do a shout out for no peace bitch.
  • Speaker 1
    0:41:30

    No peace bitch. Megan McCain.
  • Speaker 3
    0:41:34

    I’m doing her podcast next week.
  • Speaker 1
    0:41:36

    Oh my god. Just send her our gunners.
  • Speaker 4
    0:41:40

    Getting some revenge from Carrie, like, if we’re on behalf of Tim Miller or Gary Lake, oh my god.
  • Speaker 1
    0:41:45

    Maybe that should have been the episode title. No peace bitches. Guys, Jen Palmer, Mark McKinnon, John Isleman. Thank you for doing this. I hope to see you guys this summer on the fall.
  • Speaker 1
    0:41:56

    And, we’ll talk
  • Speaker 3
    0:41:57

    to you
  • Speaker 1
    0:41:57

    all soon. By.
  • Speaker 5
    0:42:09

    Best win.
  • Speaker 6
    0:42:13

    Set his cameras is on the spring left hand jumping the trees in the window. In the gravel like the stars and the sky. We have star motion management living and This morning, I’ll wait to get up every day. It’s a fiberglass it’s saving me. It’s women I love and the lord
  • Speaker 1
    0:43:17

    The Secret Podcast is produced by Katie Cooper, with audio engineering and editing by Jason Brett.
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