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Between Three Ferns (A TNL Livestream)

May 18, 2023
Notes
Transcript

Sarah, Tim and JVL went live yesterday during their recording to talk Dem wins in traditionally Republican cities, DeSantis’ Iowa trip and his allied PAC walking back criticism of Trump, and the idea that Mike Pence might actually jump into the 2024 race. Plus, the gang takes questions from the audience!

The Bulwark is heading to the Big Apple for a night of politics, laughs and maybe even a few tears—with special guest Molly Jong-Fast of the Fast Politics podcast.

Come meet the gang from The Next Level and fellow Bulwark+ members in Manhattan on Thursday, May 18.

For tickets go to TheBulwark.com/events.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors and omissions. Ironically, the transcription service has particular problems with the word “bulwark,” so you may see it mangled as “Bullard,” “Boulart,” or even “bull word.” Enjoy!
  • Speaker 1
    0:00:04

    Hey, everyone. Welcome to the next level. I’m JBL. Here with my best friends. Actually, in person with my best friends.
  • Speaker 1
    0:00:11

    Tim Miller and Sarah Longwell of the Bulwark. Hey, friends.
  • Speaker 2
    0:00:15

    I feel like Jack Corner in the back of the van or in the back of the lima. We’re going we’re going live to video tape. We’ll do it live. On the boogie nights?
  • Speaker 1
    0:00:23

    We’ll do it live.
  • Speaker 2
    0:00:24

    Didn’t do boogie nights? I did
  • Speaker 3
    0:00:25

    boogie nights, but I’m not getting
  • Speaker 4
    0:00:26

    the reference. Yeah.
  • Speaker 2
    0:00:27

    So when they first tried to go live with World Girl.
  • Speaker 1
    0:00:29

    With World Girl? Yeah. Hey, listen, if you’re watching this now on the live stream, you should go and subscribe to the T and L channel, the next level channel, it’s right I think it’s right there. Maybe it’s right there.
  • Speaker 2
    0:00:39

    I don’t know.
  • Speaker 1
    0:00:40

    It’s in one of the boxes. Got a lot to talk about today and I wanna talk about starting with to Rhonda Santos who was gonna announce his presidential campaign any minute. And he was in Iowa this weekend and he did great except for the laugh. I don’t think we have the technological capability to play his laugh but if I could give you imagine Elaine Bennett dancing. That’s basically the laugh.
  • Speaker 1
    0:01:05

    It’s usually and Rico was more like,
  • Speaker 3
    0:01:11

    That’s pretty
  • Speaker 1
    0:01:12

    good too. Yeah. Now I had been informed by many of our republican friends that Kamala Harris’s bad laugh just qualified her from high office. I think that probably goes away as a imperative for for presidential candidates now. No.
  • Speaker 1
    0:01:25

    No, it doesn’t. Tell me what you guys think. There is a DeSantis boomlet beginning, I think, in Iowa. Like let’s pay attention to the state polls.
  • Speaker 2
    0:01:33

    Don’t pay attention. This is us
  • Speaker 1
    0:01:35

    state by state whereas those national numbers don’t mean nothing. Sarah, are you buying?
  • Speaker 3
    0:01:39

    Actually, I was super important for DeSantis because Trump can lose Iowa and go on from there. DeSantis cannot lose Iowa and go on from there. Yeah.
  • Speaker 2
    0:01:50

    Probably over.
  • Speaker 3
    0:01:51

    And so he has to. And I was a good should be a good ish state for DeSantis, just in terms of demographically and the caucus But watching him look, I think it is unfair to judge the quality of his abilities by one viral clip of him laughing like
  • Speaker 1
    0:02:09

    How about two how about two viral clips if we include the one from Japan? Or he’s like, well, I
  • Speaker 4
    0:02:13

    don’t know. Ask me when I’m running.
  • Speaker 3
    0:02:16

    Yeah. And the the prophecies, he does look like somebody said to him. Be likable. Be pleasant. Be sure to laugh at people’s jokes.
  • Speaker 3
    0:02:24

    And like, It’s — Yeah. — he’s over he’s over interpreted it.
  • Speaker 1
    0:02:27

    The original men in Bulwark, when Vincent Denofrio, the tried to act like a human
  • Speaker 2
    0:02:32

    when he was thrown, the
  • Speaker 1
    0:02:33

    the bug in the human suit.
  • Speaker 2
    0:02:34

    There’s a
  • Speaker 1
    0:02:34

    little bit of that action going on.
  • Speaker 3
    0:02:36

    The thing was is that it did do a bit for DeSantis something he needed, which is he got his first good news cycle In quite a long time, he rolled out a bunch of endorsements, and as we know, endorsements translate directly into votes.
  • Speaker 2
    0:02:48

    Kind of like a crazy good news cycle. I should have a New York times article on it, like, you would have thought was in national compresses. Yeah. He would have thought as a national review.
  • Speaker 3
    0:02:56

    Yeah. Well, it was also it was, like, right after they did another one though that was, like, Ron DeSantis limp short his announcement. So
  • Speaker 2
    0:03:02

    It shows you kind of like the limits of process campaign journalism, but I do think it was interesting. And I I think it spoke to an inevitable point that I’ve been trying to bring up every time we discuss like the DeSantis fall, which is like there are some structural forces that work in his favor that like didn’t really exist in twenty sixteen that make his situation a little bit different than Ted cruises. Right? Like Trump was so new and all their reporters like holy shit like really he’s winning and he goes up again and he goes up again and then the liberal journalists were kind of like, oh we’re gonna beat this guy, right? So, you know, they they kept pumping it.
  • Speaker 2
    0:03:39

    And and so there there was just this momentum to Trump at twenty sixteen that nobody could really puncture. This time Trump leads by fifty gets kind of old. Right? There’s a long race happening I think that there there’s gonna have to be someone is gonna get pumped up. I I think that DeSantis his weakness right now means that he’s he’s vulnerable someone else having done it.
  • Speaker 2
    0:04:01

    Like, this is why I think the Tucker thing was kind of interesting. I don’t think that’s gonna happen right, but it was like, there’s room for someone else to do it. Like Vivac is is probably just a little too weird and weak for this, but like someone in the Vivec mold maybe could could be it. You know, it is Vivec any more weird or weak than Herman Cain when
  • Speaker 3
    0:04:17

    I mean, he’s running even with the last sitting vice president — Right. Exactly.
  • Speaker 2
    0:04:22

    And I mean, Herman came was like a pizza entrepreneur when he led the polls in in the summer of, you know, twenty eleven or whenever that was. Summer twenty eleven. So maybe it could be someone else, but it’s most likely to be DeSantis. And and as I’ve said before, he is the best elevator pitch of anybody else, you know, compared to Trump. And I think he is the largest base of support to work from.
  • Speaker 2
    0:04:43

    Right? Which is the one thing that is similar to cruise. And I think that base he has to work from of highly active Republican voters, people who legitimately care about Republicans winning more than owning the libs. Right? Like, matches well to caucus states.
  • Speaker 2
    0:04:58

    Right? Because, like, the types of people that participate are more likely to go. Also, highly religious voters, and I know there’s like this sense that Trump did really well with them. That’s like not quite true. Like, Trump did the best with like evangelicals like kind of go to church sometimes and are cultural evangelicals.
  • Speaker 2
    0:05:14

    Like they love Trump but like the really I do go to church a lot and like care about the lives of other people Christians, like, we’re always if
  • Speaker 3
    0:05:22

    I’m, like, I’m legitimately pro life. Like pro life matters to that.
  • Speaker 2
    0:05:26

    Yeah. Maybe they they eventually came around to him. But in the primary, they were his weaker points. So anyway, Iowa matches nicely for descent isn’t that sense. And so I I do think that, like, I love David but the frums of the world people who are like putting the dirt on his grave.
  • Speaker 2
    0:05:38

    I think this shows that just there’s this there are structural forces that are gonna keep him alive.
  • Speaker 3
    0:05:43

    Thought when you were gonna say, for structural forces, I thought one of the things you were gonna say is like, the media literally can’t live with one storyline. Right? Well, I guess you did say, like, it gets boring. Ron DeSantis will have many comebacks, if for no other reason that like the media needs this to be a little bit of a fair like a fair fight, And then, yeah, and he’s got more money than God. I mean, never back down they’re doing a thousand points.
  • Speaker 3
    0:06:06

    Like, he hasn’t announced yet. And they’re doing like a ton of spending in Iowa and the other places.
  • Speaker 2
    0:06:12

    It’s worth noting that it’s not a great sign that you’ve lost twenty points before running.
  • Speaker 3
    0:06:16

    It’s true.
  • Speaker 2
    0:06:17

    And maybe a strategic mistake there. That was interesting. Jay Mart, if I just was with this weekend to write the big political column about. The Santa’s team and how he’s like getting serious people around him and and how the path that they see and the funny part of me about the whole thing is it just it does whiff of Jeb like in the sense of it’s not a great sign that you’ve already lost twenty points and now you’re bringing these people in like you wanna have people that know you? Like, who have been around?
  • Speaker 2
    0:06:44

    I talked about this in Charlie Sykes part, but I had to stand to super back tweet that was like it kind of sounded like a Republican accountability project tweet. Yeah.
  • Speaker 3
    0:06:51

    You know,
  • Speaker 2
    0:06:51

    and it’s just like, it’s hard to sing from the same hymn book when you’re as weird as DeSantis to start with. But then when you bring in all these new people and you’re like, you’re the pros. You guys figure this out and so I do think that those guys are probably stabilizing things for him. I think it’s gonna cause other problems down the line. Like, Trump very much knows who he is.
  • Speaker 2
    0:07:11

    This goes back to one of your shticks. Right? Yeah. Trump very much knows who he is.
  • Speaker 1
    0:07:14

    So here’s here’s my question to you both. There was a lot made about how DeSantis was fighting back, has finally taken the gloves off against Trump because in the near time story because Trump canceled his event, and DeSantis chose at the last minute to do another event in Des Moines near where Trump was going to. And where Trump canceled his event because of the warning of severe weather, Ron DeSantis said it’s a beautiful night And so this was taken by political horse race reporters as Ron DeSantis is really The gloves are off. And then he he made some remark about the we have to change the culture of losing culture of losing. We were just sitting at lunch little peek behind the curtain, and I was seated next to Bill Crystal.
  • Speaker 3
    0:07:58

    We we have lunch.
  • Speaker 1
    0:07:59

    We we have lunch. And I sit next to Bill Croto. And we were talking about whether or not DeSantis really needs to run at Trump. And my my view is, I think he does. But Bill said I don’t know.
  • Speaker 1
    0:08:11

    Like, you know, that assumes that voters are logic machines and that they need to be talked out of Trump and maybe DeSantis just kinda like sits there and waits for the third indictment hits and then, you know, the weight of it goes, and maybe people just decide, I’m kinda tired of
  • Speaker 2
    0:08:27

    So Bill is pretty impressed the Bobby Jendall, Rand Paul, Ted Cruz campaigns from the last time, think so that’s a good model?
  • Speaker 1
    0:08:33

    No. What Bill was making was a another version of a man of car a man of carpenter made point to me a long time ago and it has shaped my thinking because it was so smart. So I view there as a fundamental contradiction at the heart of DeSantis. Which I’ve said on this show many times before. Right?
  • Speaker 1
    0:08:48

    You cannot say Donald Trump was the best ever. I will do everything Donald Trump did Donald Trump was cheated out of the twenty twenty election vote for me. That doesn’t Bulwark. Right? It doesn’t but if Donald Trump is standing right there running, that that doesn’t make any sense.
  • Speaker 1
    0:09:02

    What Amanda said to me a long time ago was, you know, voters don’t have to make sense. Like they can just decide they like it. Right? That doesn’t matter where where the logic chain goes. It doesn’t matter fundamental contradictions.
  • Speaker 1
    0:09:12

    Voters can just say, yeah, I really like this guy.
  • Speaker 3
    0:09:15

    So so I agree with Bill that they’re not logic machines. I’ve done a lot of focus groups, not logic machines. You had? That’s yeah. I don’t know if I’ve ever mentioned it.
  • Speaker 2
    0:09:22

    Oh, really.
  • Speaker 3
    0:09:23

    But this is precisely why he has to go at him, which is to say, you are can’t build a brand and say, you know, God made a fighter and, you know, put on your bomber jacket top gov. And then, like, he has to his vibes have to be like, I’m Alpha in Trump. Right? I’m tougher than him. I’m bigger than him.
  • Speaker 3
    0:09:42

    And he’s not. He’s getting cuffed all the time. And that thing that he did when he gave that speech He said, we have a culture of losing. Go look this up. I’m gonna get it almost verbatim.
  • Speaker 3
    0:09:51

    We lost in eighteen. We lost the Senate in twenty. Joe Biden became president and we lost again in
  • Speaker 5
    0:09:58

    twenty twenty two. And I was like, wait a minute. Joe Biden became president.
  • Speaker 1
    0:10:04

    What mistakes were made?
  • Speaker 3
    0:10:05

    Did God make a fighter or did God make a linguistic gymnast who knows how to use the passive voice? I think maybe the latter. That So it isn’t logic. He has to like he has to alpha. He has to They they need big energy vibes and he doesn’t.
  • Speaker 2
    0:10:19

    He knows he doesn’t have to because he’s gonna get these little news cycles about the subtweets. He can do the subtweets that it’s like, does it matter if the New York Times thinks that he is attacking Trump if you can’t play that clip on newsmax as an attack to Trump. Like, right, the only way that I’m you’re gonna attack Trump where mega voters see it is to actually do it. Right? Because they’re not reading between the lines the way they like the beat reporter for political So like Ron DeSantis, I think he thinks that he can, like, do this, donors will be happy.
  • Speaker 2
    0:10:51

    You know, it’s like, oh, see, he’s making this point. Like, he’s he’s doing a contrast. This is what donors want. But, like, the voters aren’t really seeing him as going as going after Trump. Meanwhile, I I loved the I didn’t I didn’t love it because Trump’s terrible.
  • Speaker 2
    0:11:06

    But it’s humorous that Trump runs an ad has a paid ad up right now that is like DeSantis is disloyal to me and he’s attacking me. Right? So it’s like, Dezantis isn’t even attacking
  • Speaker 1
    0:11:17

    him yet.
  • Speaker 2
    0:11:18

    Trump is like going and putting fingers wrong. And then running an ad that’s like, isn’t this this guy’s breaking Reagan’s eleventh commandment over here. Right? Like, that’s just You know who’s not a logic machine
  • Speaker 3
    0:11:28

    or it can sit machine
  • Speaker 2
    0:11:29

    dot com. I have one other desantis thing. Yeah.
  • Speaker 3
    0:11:32

    Go ahead. Yeah. Me too.
  • Speaker 2
    0:11:33

    Before we Oh, what’s yours? I wanna I wanna go to Florida. Oh, great.
  • Speaker 1
    0:11:36

    Is that what
  • Speaker 2
    0:11:36

    you wanna shock me? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There’s a
  • Speaker 1
    0:11:38

    Let me set you up so Jonathan Last me I’m I’m gonna tee it up for you. Do it. Sir, let me put the ball down in the t for you. Great. Part of our don’t say gay law in Florida was originally k through third grade.
  • Speaker 1
    0:11:49

    Can’t have discussions about all this stuff. There is a teacher down there who had scheduled a the use of the film Strange world, the Disney animation film which features a gay character all that Tim sum it up because he’s seen the movie and I have not. This was for her fifth grade class and she was going to show it not as like part of a class showing, but to fill time for kids who are already finished with a standardized test that they were taking.
  • Speaker 2
    0:12:13

    So it was gonna be
  • Speaker 1
    0:12:14

    like, you know, for the kids who finish early, that they don’t become disruptive, they can go over here and watch strange strange world. Then the law was changed to go k through twelve because you would not want wealth graders exposed to things like gay parents. And now she’s being investigated. Timothy.
  • Speaker 2
    0:12:29

    A mom’s against a Liberty mom has shown. Okay.
  • Speaker 1
    0:12:32

    A roof. So there there we go. You may address the ball now.
  • Speaker 2
    0:12:36

    It was actually even more than, you know, more appropriate than you’re saying because Strange world Like there’s a science class in like strange world is about like discovering the earth and like there’s a lot of, you know, themes about agriculture and the way that the life cycle works in this in this movie, it was kind of appropriate to the subject matter of the test. The thing that is worth objecting to for people who have not seen strange world. There is one gay character. It’s the sun. He’s I don’t think they ever said what AG is, but he kind of seems like he’s a teenager.
  • Speaker 2
    0:13:03

    He’s gay. He’s nervous about
  • Speaker 3
    0:13:06

    He’s animated?
  • Speaker 2
    0:13:07

    He’s animated. There’s another animated gay character that is like a friend of the kid in his class and this the plot line which is like a tiny plot line that takes up three minutes of the movie is that the the son of the main character is a little too nervous to ask the other guy out on the date, and the dad is supportive of the son and says, he’s with you, I’m with you no matter what you do, and I think you should go for it and kind of encouraging him to go for the date. And the son is embarrassed that his dad is so supportive and encouraging. You wouldn’t want this. I mean, it’s not it’s not like then after that the next scene is like the kids go to a sixty nine.
  • Speaker 2
    0:13:40

    It’s like it’s like there’s no animated teen Love making it happening. Okay. But anyway, now this teacher is under investigation. The interesting thing, the reason why I wanted to talk about this is, I mean, the Santa’s is is a fucking prick. But that that’s kind of besides the point.
  • Speaker 2
    0:13:56

    The reason why I’m talking about this is as you know, as part of my research and, you know, as part of my outreach, when I was at the TP USA conference, I met a lot of the gays against groomers. And I’ve begun following a lot of them on social media. Just got see what stuff they’re putting out and it’s all the typical MAGa stuff you’d you’d usually see. And they were supportive of the k to third grade. Bill.
  • Speaker 2
    0:14:17

    And some of them, when we got into a little I’m not one saying, are you up a little bit of a spirited discussion? What I was saying to them, I was like, as an older gay, let me tell you why I think there’s some problems here. I have Kindergartner and, like, here are some things that happen in kindergarten. Like, they ask questions about the birds and the bees, and that’s normal actually.
  • Speaker 1
    0:14:31

    You identify as old?
  • Speaker 2
    0:14:32

    It’s not grooming. I did identify as old.
  • Speaker 1
    0:14:36

    It came out as old.
  • Speaker 2
    0:14:37

    Yeah. I know it was almost harder than than coming out originally. That’s it was challenging. And And, you know, they were like just very dismissive. Like, oh, come on.
  • Speaker 2
    0:14:46

    Like this is too, you know, and and you know I was like, I don’t know if you guys realize who you’re getting in bed with so to I think that these people hate you a lot more than you realize. It was basically my core message to them. One of those young men I I noticed on Instagram this week did a post about this about the strange world teacher. And he’s like, guys, I think we’re going a little bit overboard here. As somebody who is supportive as someone who is supportive of the don’t say gay Bill, like I think that that this is making Republican seem a little weird and a little bit out there and I just commented on his post.
  • Speaker 2
    0:15:16

    I was like, Maybe the problem was with the bill originally. He is not he’s not yet responded. So I’ll I’ll keep you posted on whether we have any. You know, maybe we can have like a little a little gaze against groomers, gaze four groomers debate.
  • Speaker 1
    0:15:28

    So, Sarah, does any of this register in focus groups when you’re talking to the people?
  • Speaker 3
    0:15:33

    That’s the one thing I wanted to bring up is I do have some fresh focus group.
  • Speaker 2
    0:15:39

    I’m gonna
  • Speaker 3
    0:15:40

    I was hoping I was maybe gonna read you a couple
  • Speaker 2
    0:15:43

    of questions. While you look at this while you get this by the way, I’m just gonna just do a quick rant for our viewers out here now that we’re doing this live. I get in trouble. Because I look at my phone when you guys are talking and people complain about this in the comments all the time. And I love the people and I just I just wanna let you know, I understand it’s a reasonable complaint because you might think that I’m looking at Twitter and tweeting because I I am known.
  • Speaker 2
    0:16:01

    You are. I am known to tweet during conversations, but no. When I’m looking at my phone during this podcast, because I want to get the information right for you, the listener. And I’m oftentimes trying to, like, find something I’ve saved in my Slack or some notes that I’ve taken, and I keep and because I’m addicted by phone, I do it all on my phone. I don’t use a pen and paper like the YouTube boomers do.
  • Speaker 2
    0:16:23

    So Anyway, when I’m on this podcast, if I’m looking my phone, I’m not I’m not being rude. I’m just trying to get the facts right. Well, I’m watching chat. While you listen to you
  • Speaker 1
    0:16:31

    guys, And first of all, yes, it is between three ferns on purpose. Yes. And no, you’re not getting Rudy talk — Yeah. — because we’re saving that for when we’re in New York City tomorrow night. We’re going long on Rudy tomorrow night.
  • Speaker 3
    0:16:43

    You’re just The only point I really want to make about DeSantis is back in the day, right after to the elections and earlier this year. I talked about this a lot. And any group of two time Trump voters, no no additional screen. You just get two time Trump voters generic. They were all breaking for DeSantis.
  • Speaker 3
    0:16:59

    Not a hundred percent, you’d get a couple Trump people, but like, it got to the point where we started having to screen specifically for really high favorability on Trump to get a pretty Trump y group, that has flipped. So we just did a basic screen, two time Trump voters, college educated. And like Oh,
  • Speaker 2
    0:17:15

    did you get this?
  • Speaker 3
    0:17:16

    Seven two Trump. Seven two Trump. And this has been the case now. Like groups are breaking for Trump and it’s like, it’s weird because it’s their rationalizations are things like this is what I was looking for because they they were talking about how he’s a known quantity. Like, they know him.
  • Speaker 3
    0:17:31

    They don’t Ron DeSantis. And they’re not sure if he’d be good, but Trump kept his word, he did what he said. And to me this speaks not to Trump’s scent or anything about Trump that they like. It is the collapse of round to Santos. Right?
  • Speaker 3
    0:17:45

    Like, what you were seeing before was Ron DeSantis curious audience. And they were like kind of like on Trump like we need to move on too much baggage. And then now with DeSantis, it’s like, oh, they took a look, and they’re like, yeah. I don’t know. And now they’re kinda like
  • Speaker 2
    0:18:03

    Bulwark to Trump. And
  • Speaker 3
    0:18:04

    I’m just not sure So I know that the media is gonna need other news cycles. Like, how good does DeSantis have to be to start winning these people over? Especially when you’ve got Trump there defining him the whole time. Like, I don’t wanna count him out. I don’t think we need to say he’s toast, he’s dead.
  • Speaker 3
    0:18:21

    But I am like, I don’t know if they say No. I I know Trump, I like Trump and to Santa Santa, I don’t know. I’m not sure he’s that good. You overcome it by being extremely political task.
  • Speaker 2
    0:18:30

    Did you ask this did you ask the the people in the in the nine? Why they what what was about DeSantis was turning them off?
  • Speaker 3
    0:18:38

    Yeah. He doesn’t have business experience. Like Trump. Mhmm. And and I’ll tell you what that means though.
  • Speaker 3
    0:18:43

    That is code for he’s a politician. Yeah. Because one Ron DeSantis big liabilities with people. One of the things people for years now, I’ve heard people that they love about Trump is he’s not a politician.
  • Speaker 2
    0:18:53

    Yeah. He barely wiped his own ass.
  • Speaker 3
    0:18:55

    Yeah. That’s right. And they love that he’s a businessman. Because they all watched the apprentice and they think that’s what a business manager is.
  • Speaker 1
    0:19:01

    How to sell pardons for two million dollars.
  • Speaker 3
    0:19:03

    That’s right. It’s a fifty fifty split.
  • Speaker 1
    0:19:05

    It’s I will say there is another piece of this which is that there’s an off ramp for people who don’t wanna be anti Ron DeSantis. And the the off ramp for them is I could just vote for him in four years.
  • Speaker 3
    0:19:17

    Yeah.
  • Speaker 1
    0:19:17

    Right? You know, they
  • Speaker 2
    0:19:18

    should join in a ticket. Thank you. He’s doing such a great job
  • Speaker 1
    0:19:20

    in Florida. We wanna move
  • Speaker 2
    0:19:23

    it to case sixteen
  • Speaker 3
    0:19:24

    of what they get.
  • Speaker 2
    0:19:25

    The
  • Speaker 3
    0:19:25

    number of people who say DeSantis should be the vice president. Like, it’s like they have no sense of these two men hate each other now. Like, these are not things that are But they think, like, no. It’d be you get the and they’re like, they think they have the best idea because you get twelve years.
  • Speaker 2
    0:19:39

    Yeah. You
  • Speaker 3
    0:19:39

    get four more of Trump, eight of DeSantis, Republican rule from here as far as the eye can see. Yeah.
  • Speaker 5
    0:19:45

    And they’re very excited about this idea.
  • Speaker 1
    0:19:47

    It’s gonna be great. Hey, guys. It’s JBL. In a sea of options, it’s hard to find a high quality razor that you can depend on. You go to the grocery store or to the pharmacy, and there’s, like, fifty thousand different kinds of razors.
  • Speaker 1
    0:20:03

    I’ve been using one razor. The Harry’s razor for almost a decade now long before they decided to sponsor this show. And I got the trial set originally just like most people tend to do, with the handle and the razor blades and the shaving cream, and the truth is it was just fantastic. You can get a high quality shave without the hassle of all that other stuff by just getting a three dollar Harry’s trial set. The starter set is normally thirteen bucks.
  • Speaker 1
    0:20:30

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  • Speaker 1
    0:21:03

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  • Speaker 4
    0:21:18

    We’re all juggling life, a career, and trying to build a little bit of wealth. The Brown Ambition Secret Podcast with host Mandy and Tiffany budget needs to can help. How can I protect myself from identity theft?
  • Speaker 5
    0:21:30

    I think the first thing that’s to be aware of what phishing attempts look like. So check that email address, but now it’s coming to your text. Do you guys fishing text now? Girl, yes.
  • Speaker 4
    0:21:39

    Talking about this to IRS. I’m like, girl, so you texting now? What’s your lack of funding? Ground ambition.
  • Speaker 3
    0:21:46

    Wherever you listen.
  • Speaker 1
    0:21:49

    Were they excited about the Durham report? No. No. Because the Durham the Durham report has dropped. I thought we were getting a Hunter Biden all locked up And then it turns out that like everything’s fine.
  • Speaker 1
    0:22:01

    There’s nothing burger. Who could possibly have predicted?
  • Speaker 3
    0:22:04

    I only have one thing to say about the Durham report, which is I tweeted this this morning, but it we spent a lot of time sort of assessing the fall of the Republican Party, by all the weirdos and the Gossars and the Marjorie Taylor Greens and the Lauren Bobort. And I actually think better measurement for how far the Republican Party has fallen, and it’s just overall degradation is, like, like, how bad the normies are? Like Dan Crenshaw’s response to the derm apart was like, if we don’t have
  • Speaker 2
    0:22:33

    I just fold it up. See, I’m looking at my phone for you people. I’m gonna read it to you so you can have it. I’ve never been a reactive lock them up type. But but This Durham report is a lock them up moment we should be looking for statutes that apply to these egregious violations of public trust.
  • Speaker 2
    0:22:54

    If they don’t exist, it’s time we create them.
  • Speaker 3
    0:22:57

    Yeah. You know what, there ought to be a law. There ought to be a law. Total exoneration,
  • Speaker 2
    0:23:01

    and there
  • Speaker 3
    0:23:01

    ought to be a law.
  • Speaker 1
    0:23:02

    Oh, it’s not turn total exoneration.
  • Speaker 2
    0:23:04

    My friend my friend Fred Wellman, our friend Fred Wellman had a great response to this. I was like, Fred Durham was appointed to do exactly what he described. Just look for statutes that apply to these violations. He didn’t find any crimes. And he’s like, PS, they already changed the policy that he recommended, you know, related to the Pfizer and the Carter page and stuff, but you don’t care about that because it won’t get you on fox.
  • Speaker 2
    0:23:26

    I bet Fred covered that pretty good. Mhmm. The current shopping is like, that’s really the story of all this. They they didn’t miss a beat, the Brett Bears, Guy Benson, I’m pulling this up. It was like the the tweets that these people were sending, guidance and much of the media is fully invested in the collusion hoax in which they were enthusiastically complicit.
  • Speaker 2
    0:23:47

    This sort of Durban coverage was inevitable, which people saying it’s no big deal, as corrupt as everything was. I was like what are you talk? Kinda tried another tweet that was like the Dura report shows that the investigation crossed by a hurricane should have never started. Was like, were these people awake in twenty sixteen? Like, sometimes I feel like were they in a coma?
  • Speaker 2
    0:24:06

    I mean, the Russians hacked into Hillary Clinton’s emails, Donald Trump rooted for it, his son asked them to have a meeting where he could discuss their foul play, his campaign manager was on the take from a Russian oligarch. It’s like, that wasn’t enough, that wasn’t enough to open. I’m not a fucking lawyer, but that’s seems like enough to at least open an investigation, like now they’re saying that it was corrupt to have even opened an investigation. The most normal people on Fox, that’s their position.
  • Speaker 1
    0:24:35

    Tommy Tuberville, who is
  • Speaker 2
    0:24:36

    also one of the most normal people on top. In the
  • Speaker 1
    0:24:38

    United States Center, one of only one hundred American. We have three hundred thirty million people in America. Only a hundred of them get to be senator. Tommy Tuberville is one of them. He said, I can’t even talk about it.
  • Speaker 1
    0:24:50

    It’s so bad. If people don’t go to jail for this, the American people should just stand up and say, quote, listen enough’s enough Let’s don’t have elections anymore.
  • Speaker 3
    0:25:03

    Does he suggest an alternative? What do we do instead?
  • Speaker 1
    0:25:07

    I I, you know, I wish there was an special investigation into the voter fraud, but it was outrageous what happened. But nobody wanted to look into it because they were afraid they were gonna be called out. I hate that it happened.
  • Speaker 2
    0:25:19

    Okay. But Tommy Tauperville is an idiot. It is it’s an important He’s
  • Speaker 1
    0:25:21

    a United States senator? No. This isn’t like some it’s isn’t captured. He’s not, like, we’re not sharing
  • Speaker 2
    0:25:26

    with Catcher though.
  • Speaker 3
    0:25:27

    Catherine has a tremendous amount of power.
  • Speaker 1
    0:25:30

    The point is we are not not picking some random, like, is the the whole both sides isn’t thing rests on. I have found some, you know, tiny progressive Twitter personality says the most outrageous things. And yes, the Republicans attempted an
  • Speaker 2
    0:25:46

    armed coup. But both sides, they’re
  • Speaker 1
    0:25:46

    the same. I’m a principal both sides top terrible things.
  • Speaker 2
    0:25:52

    Tommy Toperville wants fascism. That’s a problem. Okay. That’s a discreet problem. But me and Sarah are talking about another issue, which is like, that even the people that we’re supposed to like rely on as being logic based
  • Speaker 1
    0:26:05

  • Speaker 3
    0:26:05

    That’s right.
  • Speaker 1
    0:26:05

  • Speaker 2
    0:26:05

    you know, to those that we could disagree with in good faith, Even those people in the face of all the evidence, which is independent juries all over the country have indicted and convicted multiple Trump associates for their activities related to the Russian investigation. Durham got no such convictions. Multiple juries rejected his efforts and yet Even logical people are like, the all this shows is that more people need to be locked up and that this was a hoax. What?
  • Speaker 3
    0:26:32

    And not the Tony Taupervilles. Like, the ones that we are yeah. This is this is my point. It’s that, like, that is a manifestation of the party and the direction it’s going. But the people that the the Capitol Hill reporters go to to be like, this is a normal Republican.
  • Speaker 3
    0:26:46

    I can talk to this person. They’ll give me like a sane answer. Have also gone insane on this stuff. We we
  • Speaker 1
    0:26:51

    saw this with the the aging Hirl verdict. Right? Where Marco Rubio said the jury was a joke. Like, these aren’t one offs.
  • Speaker 2
    0:26:57

    Did you say one of the jurors was a Tim pool listener? Oh, this everybody has all these projections in their head. Do you know Tim Pool?
  • Speaker 3
    0:27:04

    I can
  • Speaker 2
    0:27:04

    Okay. Yeah. For people who don’t know, he’s like, who is this left he’s like a Glen Greenwold. It’s a short It’s like a lefty that went total mega. And the Eugene Carol, Robbie Kaplan, they tried to throw them out because, like, when they when they ask like jurors what’s your news consumption?
  • Speaker 2
    0:27:17

    And this guy was like, my only news consumption is Tim Pool. Like, well, this guy can’t be unbiased. But the judge said, no, you gotta keep him in. So they were really worried about this one juror. The guy that the only incoming information he gets from the news is from a MAGA YouTuber, he was like, yeah, Donald Trump seems guilty on this one.
  • Speaker 2
    0:27:33

    Right? And and then Marco was like unfair live progressive pussy hat jury. It’s like, what? Sorry. I’m sorry.
  • Speaker 2
    0:27:40

    No.
  • Speaker 1
    0:27:40

    Credit for not doing the voice, Sarah?
  • Speaker 3
    0:27:42

    I I’m not gonna give you credit every time you don’t do the voice.
  • Speaker 1
    0:27:44

    Well, if you don’t, then I’m gonna start doing it again.
  • Speaker 3
    0:27:46

    Okay. I well, you I mean, I don’t like it, but I I put it.
  • Speaker 1
    0:27:49

    I did Tommy Tuberville in normal standard English instead of how he really sounds.
  • Speaker 3
    0:27:54

    I know. I just wanted to read you. I feel like my the guy has he’s watching the live stream and he sent me a text of the the quote I really wanted on the Rhonda Santis thing.
  • Speaker 2
    0:28:01

    Great.
  • Speaker 3
    0:28:02

    He’s this person talking about the Rhonda Santis donors. They were huge Democrats because they’re trying to get him to be the candidate so that Trump doesn’t run, so they would rather have DeSantis run thinking that he’s not gonna win. So I’ll explain, this two time Trump voter is saying that live donors are trying to prop up Ron DeSantis, so that DeSantis is the nominee, the nominee of the UNi Party live establishment because they’re scared of Donald Trump, which, by the way, the through line of everything that happens at Donald Trump for the eugene Carol verdict to every indictment that has happened and will happen is all because we are afraid of Donald Trump because we’re the most scared of him.
  • Speaker 2
    0:28:40

    He does smell a uni party to Santos — Yeah.
  • Speaker 1
    0:28:42

  • Speaker 2
    0:28:42

    which is hurting is just gonna hurt him in the primary. I worry a little bit that if he does manage, I can come back and he comes through, it helps him in the general. Because like there’s a there’s a category of people out there like particularly like guys who just let you’re like, I’m so fucking sick of politics. Donald Trump, all this shit, all this stuff and they’re like, I’m just gonna listen to Secret Podcast now. And they used to be Republicans, but, you know, now they don’t but like the people that that voted for Katie Hobbs and Joe Biden and Georgia are very important people in our electorate.
  • Speaker 2
    0:29:10

    And they’re like, Ron DeSantis seems fine. Yeah. For the same reason that the primary voters are like, Rhonda Santis seems like a Neokan, you know, a uni party. They’ve cucked. Right?
  • Speaker 2
    0:29:19

    Just because like no matter how hard he works to do like the MAGa drag, like he just smells like a like a Republican from the Bush years.
  • Speaker 1
    0:29:29

    Yeah. I don’t think he’s gonna if he’s the nominate, I don’t think he’s gonna campaign as an army. He’s gonna campaign as a full spectrum manga.
  • Speaker 2
    0:29:37

    Yeah. Maybe. But who knows?
  • Speaker 1
    0:29:42

    Talk about some Democrats. We had some mayoral elections last night from my my ex wife’s city, Philadelphia.
  • Speaker 2
    0:29:49

    Now that I am
  • Speaker 1
    0:29:49

    a New Yorker.
  • Speaker 3
    0:29:51

    Your ex wife’s city?
  • Speaker 1
    0:29:53

    No. My ex wife’s city. This is my — Oh,
  • Speaker 2
    0:29:55

    your ex
  • Speaker 3
    0:29:55

    wife’s city.
  • Speaker 1
    0:29:56

    — stood up here as my ex wife.
  • Speaker 2
    0:29:58

    I still don’t understand.
  • Speaker 3
    0:29:59

    I was like I was like crowder. What’s happening here?
  • Speaker 1
    0:30:02

    Philadelphia used to be my city.
  • Speaker 2
    0:30:04

    Shannon, are you okay? Did you text me and make sure everything’s okay?
  • Speaker 1
    0:30:07

    Then I I left it for for a more beautiful gal, the big apple. What were
  • Speaker 3
    0:30:12

    you talking about? You lived in Virginia and you moved to New Jersey.
  • Speaker 1
    0:30:17

    K. I used to be a Philly guy now. I’m a New York guy.
  • Speaker 2
    0:30:19

    Yeah. Let’s move on.
  • Speaker 1
    0:30:19

    Okay. So Philly had a oral primary, a a Democratic primary in which Sheryl Parker was victorious. She is the normie Democrat who was running on law and order and public safety and all sorts of just like centrist Democrat stuff. She whooped on the AOC and Bernie Sanders endorsed candidate. I don’t know.
  • Speaker 1
    0:30:42

    It just feels like this is what we’re seeing from the Democratic party over the last day. Everyone is like why aren’t the Democrats being more moderate? And I’m like, I don’t know. They nominated Joe Biden. They got rid of the the bad DA in San Francisco.
  • Speaker 1
    0:30:55

    The Democrats seem to be trying to address the things that some people say are liabilities for them in a meaningful way.
  • Speaker 2
    0:31:02

    No? Well, they lost to Chicago. Am I crazy? The prog one in Chicago. Those interesting I saw there’s a a republican consultant tweeted.
  • Speaker 2
    0:31:10

    After the Philly result. That was basically like, look, for conservatives who believe in law and order, like it might be time to just get on board with like the more conservative black candidate in these cities so that we can, you know, get the law and order policies that we like. And I I I just didn’t wanna get into a fight with this person on Twitter, so I’m doing it now Secret Podcast. I almost replied and I was just like, actually do not do that because the only city if you look at New York, if you look at San Francisco, Philly, Chicago, out of all these big cities, the only one where the progressive is one recently was Chicago. Where the guy, Alice, Paul Dallas, like, was coded just a little too Republican.
  • Speaker 2
    0:31:47

    Like he went to a couple too many Republican club events Sarah Longwell he’s fucking on his podcast, I think. He’s like, that was his vibe. Like, even though he was a democrat, like, he had kind of gotten too far in with that group. And that folks in these cities don’t want that. Like they they have rendered a verdict on the MAGA Republican Party and it is no.
  • Speaker 2
    0:32:06

    They are kind of vacillating back and forth between the law and order Democrats and the progressive Democrats as as as we look in these elections and they’re different things in different. Once. I I I paid attention to the Philly race a little less closely than I did. Colorado Springs race, which I wanna talk about. But do you did you have someone, Philly?
  • Speaker 3
    0:32:21

    The only thing is that I think it’s one thing to get coded Republican when you sort of run against the left in a certain way. And you cozy up to republicans, right? Which is I think what happened in Chicago. I think in Philly,
  • Speaker 4
    0:32:35

    she just ran as a normie. Right. So that works. Right.
  • Speaker 2
    0:32:38

    And
  • Speaker 3
    0:32:38

    that works. And so if like Republicans vote for you in that case, that’s not harmful. And so I I think that I I I don’t
  • Speaker 1
    0:32:45

    It’s the Joe Biden message.
  • Speaker 3
    0:32:46

    Yeah. Like, I I think that that is I think that’s exactly the right way to to run and to win and the margins, I thought were pretty like, that’s good. That’s decisive.
  • Speaker 1
    0:32:56

    Yeah. So we good news in Jacksonville as well down to Santa’s land, another normie Democrat winning that that primary. And then Colorado Springs. Yeah. Then I can’t believe you were able to tear yourself away from the nuggets.
  • Speaker 2
    0:33:08

    I was I was big win last big win last night for the nuggets one and o. Nicole at Yokicch’s God and his king, show your respect please, the and after the club cue shooting in Colorado Springs. For people who don’t remember, I just think this is the context here is really important. Even backing up further. Colorado Springs, we’re focused on the families.
  • Speaker 2
    0:33:26

    That’s where the Air Force Academy is. Mhmm. Right? So it’s in Colorado, but, like, this is was the most conservative part of the state. And that congressional district around Colorado Springs I think that wins by twenty, thirty points.
  • Speaker 2
    0:33:36

    It’s not a competitive seat. And so traditionally, like that’s just where the city’s been. The city start to move has started slowly more blue just the way off Colorado is. Jared Polis actually won it, but it’s it’s still a Republican congressman. But the club’s cue shooting if you if you don’t remember like Colorado passed these red flag laws, right?
  • Speaker 2
    0:33:56

    But in Colorado Springs, the city council and the police chief and the mayor were like we’re not gonna enforce the like we’re not gonna, you know, respond to red flag requests and the shooter that killed the people in that gay bar like was a prime candidate for red flag wall. Like every every possible flag that you could think of flying when it comes to this person. And people had gone to the police and said they were worried about him. I forget if his family members are a neighbor. My memory’s a little fuzzy on that.
  • Speaker 2
    0:34:24

    And so, you know, I wrote after the club q thing. I was like, this is somewhere where there is an actual policy response that the city should be doing and that reasonable normal people should be pushing out these, like, far right zealots in favor of either, like a Republican who who supports reasonable gun laws or a Democrat or an independent a Democrat. I thought it was a little bit of a stretch. And and I I closed my article by saying God willing people at Colorado Springs will see this reality and replace these zealots. They did that last night with a guy whose name I’m gonna butcher, but is an African immigrant who ran as an independent who ran as like a classic bulwark person like socially liberal Bulwark know, we should we need to respect you of all all cultures.
  • Speaker 2
    0:35:05

    Obviously, he’s a black immigrant, like, obviously moderate on, you know, immigration policies and sanctuary and that sort of thing gay stuff, abortion. But was, like, business friendly. I’m an independent. I’m not a Democrat. I’m, like, that’s how he that’s how he branded himself.
  • Speaker 2
    0:35:18

    He crushed this Magga guy in college. Thanks.
  • Speaker 3
    0:35:22

    Stood down
  • Speaker 2
    0:35:22

    in that race. The downs did stand down in that race, which is a good strategy.
  • Speaker 3
    0:35:26

    Which is the model. Yeah. I mean, this really is, like I mean, Evan McMawen obviously wasn’t able to win in in Utah. That was like a a big lift from the start. But this idea of the dem standing down and running as sort of a That’s the only No third party stuff.
  • Speaker 3
    0:35:40

    Like, you can run as a third party but you need the other party in it. And and they and good on the demos for recognizing that they weren’t gonna get any there. Yeah.
  • Speaker 2
    0:35:48

    That is true though. This also just for a fact check purposes, it was a runoff. But like there was not like really a credible that it was like two Republicans and him were the main candidates and a bunch of gap flies. And so he wins. But going back maybe to say your point is more right about how normal Republicans should deal with these cities.
  • Speaker 2
    0:36:04

    You know, I talked to the guy who was polling this race and he was like, we want all the Democrats obviously, overwhelming one with independence. But we’re winning, like, a third of the Republicans. And that is what connects that race with the Jackson film administration. Now Jackville is not college race. It’s more of a swing city, but it was I think the biggest or the second biggest City in America that had a Republican governor.
  • Speaker 2
    0:36:22

    I think it was the biggest, actually. Fort Worth was the second now is the biggest. And and that’s a swing district. Again, if you looked at the numbers last night, there were more Republicans that turned out in the Jacksonville race than Democrats. So it was not a turnout.
  • Speaker 2
    0:36:34

    You know, sometimes you’re like, oh, it’s an off year story, mayors, it’s a turn off It was not a turnout story in Jacksonville or Colorado Springs. It was a crossover story where people like the Magas or freaks. And I I think that’s that’s like encouraging on both on both counts. I mean, I don’t know. Can you be encouraged, Javille?
  • Speaker 1
    0:36:50

    It looks like we have one healthy political party. Right? I mean, that people get mad at me for saying that, but it does look like we have, you know, records aren’t the answer to everything, but they seem to be trying to self correct as a party. Their voters seem you know, the median Democratic voters seems more normal than the median Republican voter. Right?
  • Speaker 3
    0:37:08

    I’m not willing to extrapolate it out as far as you. And, you know, I think that, like, just there are play like there are a bunch of cities that are in really rough shape and their Democratic leadership should they should take these as examples, because I think that I’m not sure there’s, like, as much self correcting. Those were, like, a couple good elections, but there’s a lot of self correct. That needs to happen in the governance of a lot of America’s major cities.
  • Speaker 2
    0:37:34

    We’ll get to Rudy’s bag or tomorrow. But here’s the thing, there is no Rudy. Right? It is insane. Given that everybody’s like, oh, the American cities have turned into third world countries and crime is rampant and everywhere.
  • Speaker 2
    0:37:45

    It isn’t saying that Fort Worth is the biggest city in America with a Republican mayor. It’s like the nineteenth or twentieth biggest city in America with a Republican mayor. And then you go down from there and it’s another ten before you get to the next biggest city. No cities in America have Republican mayors, including big sprawling cities, including red, big, red state cities, and it’s like that there I think it’s both for your points. Like, on your side, it speaks out broken the Republican Party is.
  • Speaker 2
    0:38:09

    That they can’t even develop actually, I know who the the thirtieth one is my friend David Holt. Who barely counts as a Republican. Sorry, David. He might be listening. He’s like a bulwark republican who runs Oklahoma City, and he’s an ex biggest one.
  • Speaker 2
    0:38:21

    But, like, that they can’t create David hold. More contributor. That they Oh, yeah. He’s right for us. Yeah.
  • Speaker 2
    0:38:26

    But they they can’t they they can’t create David Holtts in any of these cities because their own voters are so fucking insane.
  • Speaker 3
    0:38:33

    That’s the primary. Just which is because there is a model for this, and it’s Republican governors. The most popular Republican governors of the last over many years are like Larry Hogan, and baker up in Massachusetts and like
  • Speaker 1
    0:38:43

  • Speaker 2
    0:38:44

    Phil Scott.
  • Speaker 1
    0:38:44

  • Speaker 3
    0:38:44

    Phil Scott, and like, these normie republican governors who were socially moderate.
  • Speaker 1
    0:38:48

    But they can’t win primaries anymore.
  • Speaker 3
    0:38:50

    No. I know.
  • Speaker 1
    0:38:50

    Right? I mean, look, if Larry Hogan could Larry Hogan win a Republican primary in Maryland right now?
  • Speaker 3
    0:38:55

    I don’t think he thinks he could win a Republican primary. Although, I I don’t mean I wonder if he ran for senate, I don’t know.
  • Speaker 1
    0:39:01

    Could he win that primary? I don’t know.
  • Speaker 2
    0:39:03

    It’s also bad if people are self selecting. It’s also people are selecting. Right? It’s like the type of I don’t I don’t know. I don’t wanna ascribe what this what the independent and Colorado Springs would have done, but it’s like there’s certain types of people that like David Like, if David Holt, who is governor, who is mayor, excuse me, way before Trump came around.
  • Speaker 2
    0:39:19

    He’s been mayor forever down there. If somebody like him came up now, he probably isn’t running for mayors or Republicans. You don’t want the baggage of the of the of the party. So like some of it’s the primary, some of it’s the self selecting, but it is like it it’s it’s pretty noteworthy. Like you gotta get to Fort Worth and then one very barely Rhino and those that’s it for your top thirty.
  • Speaker 2
    0:39:39

    Yeah.
  • Speaker 1
    0:39:40

    Again, I am sorry for saying out loud the truth of the Democratic party is healthier than the republican party. I know that makes some people very angry.
  • Speaker 3
    0:39:47

    He’s healthier. But
  • Speaker 1
    0:39:49

    but Healthier for sure. So the Democratic Party, you know, has because they’re not perfect, they have problems, they seem to be attempting to self correct these problems in some important ways. Maybe not perfectly. Maybe they haven’t come down on pronouns hard enough. I you know, I I’m shorting really need to get on that pronoun stuff.
  • Speaker 2
    0:40:05

    You have something you need to get off your chest, Jolla?
  • Speaker 1
    0:40:07

    I’m just saying. And the Republican version of reform is Ron DeSantis. Right? I mean, the the Republican version of, yes, we’ve gone too far. We need to course correct, is Ron DeSantis.
  • Speaker 1
    0:40:18

    And so that I just don’t think you can both sides of this.
  • Speaker 3
    0:40:21

    The fact that DeSantis is, like, the normie alternative goes back to the point I was trying to make earlier about the degradation of the normies. Like, the normies are daily wire listeners.
  • Speaker 2
    0:40:33

    Right.
  • Speaker 3
    0:40:33

    And like they’re not newsmax. They’re daily wire — Right.
  • Speaker 1
    0:40:37

  • Speaker 2
    0:40:37

    which
  • Speaker 3
    0:40:37

    means they’re Candace Owens, Matt Walsh, and
  • Speaker 2
    0:40:40

    Becky, you know. They think that trans people should be exterminated. Right. Or But other than that, they’re pretty normal. I’m gonna take
  • Speaker 1
    0:40:47

    a couple questions. Sarah, here’s one for you. For the people you you do focus groups with, what are their main sources of information? When you ask them about their media diets, where are they getting their stuff?
  • Speaker 3
    0:40:58

    So overwhelmingly number one place is nowhere. Did I say this recently about Eugene Carroll? Did I make this observation on one of our podcasts that when we ask about Eugene Sarah Longwell one person in the focus group when they
  • Speaker 4
    0:41:13

    heard about it.
  • Speaker 3
    0:41:14

    And I think more often than not, it’s not that I hear people say things that are, you know, that they have like alarming or bad information. They just have like no information about stuff. They don’t know things are going on. So the number one is nowhere. Number two is scrolling on their phone.
  • Speaker 3
    0:41:30

    Now and here’s where it’s really important and why we are getting more segregated. As we get more segregated geographically, means the people that they know on social media are the people that they know that are close to them, which means that the news sources that they see when they scroll, are from the people who are the ones who are shared So
  • Speaker 2
    0:41:48

    usually, it’s probably gonna be like Reuters.
  • Speaker 3
    0:41:50

    No. So they get so they get off
  • Speaker 1
    0:41:52

    the shelf. France France, press I
  • Speaker 3
    0:41:54

    mean, the number of times people in a photo should be like, well, I saw a thing. I’m not sure where, but it said, and it’s like something wild.
  • Speaker 1
    0:42:02

    You know, like, whatever. Okay. These kids in schools are using kitty litter boxes in their bathrooms.
  • Speaker 2
    0:42:06

    It was, like, it was my buddy, the tailgate one time, as was my always my anecdote put was, like, Is it true that Obama lowered the flag to half mast when one of the terrorists was killed? And I was like, Obama killed the terrorists. I was like, no. That’s not true. And, like, someone else overhearing was like, really?
  • Speaker 2
    0:42:23

    That’s not true. I’d heard that one too. And I was just like, where do you guys get this stuff from?
  • Speaker 3
    0:42:27

    Yeah. And it’s like, so social media has become that’s what people talk about disinformation. And it’s like, there’s there’s actual, like, dis and then there’s just, like, the wrongness of the people around you in your social media feeds that’s like amped up by the fact that they’re sharing Bright, Bart, Fox, whatever. I will also just say, one of my favorite things to talk about right now is the distinction that people make when you ask them who they listen to and some people say, Tucker? And some people say Fox News.
  • Speaker 3
    0:42:54

    And those are different kinds of people.
  • Speaker 2
    0:42:56

    So we’ve got nowhere in their feeds, Tucker, Fox. What’s next? Candace Secret Podcast?
  • Speaker 3
    0:43:04

    You get a lot of Candace Owens people. A lot of daily wire people to cop with the cops.
  • Speaker 1
    0:43:07

    I wonder if she should run for president.
  • Speaker 3
    0:43:09

    Telling you. I told I’ve said this before that of the people that come up, she comes up quite often as a potential person to run.
  • Speaker 2
    0:43:15

    Alright. I started adding Candice’s podcast to my conservative research have you listened to it a couple times recently? It’s kind of fascinating. It’s we should maybe we should maybe take some cues from her. She does like like twenty minutes of reactionary politics, followed by like cereal tasting.
  • Speaker 2
    0:43:32

    It’s like a morning show. It’s like a morning radio show, know? It’s got like, you know, it’s just got like or like advice for moms about, you know, what kind of baby bjorn’s
  • Speaker 1
    0:43:41

    to carry.
  • Speaker 2
    0:43:43

    Is does she, you know, isn’t she pregnant? You know, like, advice for women. Yeah. She’s a good
  • Speaker 1
    0:43:46

    Oh, she’s
  • Speaker 3
    0:43:46

    a kid says our producer with his hand.
  • Speaker 1
    0:43:49

    Well, I you know what? I Anyway, I’m not saying that she would be pulling above Nikki Haley right now, but I I bet you anything to be truthful. She would be pulling above Nikki Haley right now. Here’s a good fantasy politics question. Where would America be today if the Republicans had voted to impeach after the Mueller report and Mike Pence had served out Trump’s term.
  • Speaker 1
    0:44:08

    I mean, I think we’d all be in a happy place. Right? We would feel like we were in a world that basically made sense and that the Republican Party was basically a healthy political party that maybe had policy preferences that we didn’t share or maybe did share. But but you know, like we can turn the Landell’s off and — No.
  • Speaker 2
    0:44:25

    No. I don’t think so.
  • Speaker 3
    0:44:26

    I also don’t think so. But to do so, to talk about why it makes me walk into a trap, the JBL, like, you
  • Speaker 1
    0:44:32

    Sarah, please tell me why.
  • Speaker 2
    0:44:35

    I think that there would be there would have been a massive revolt On the right. Right? And so somebody would have had to emerge to placate the people that revolted. I think that the second impeachment is a better example. For this question, right?
  • Speaker 2
    0:44:50

    Because I think they’ve they had a very clear alternative Ron DeSantis. So the party could have just moved to DeSantis, and I think there would have been a splinter group of MAGas. Who would have been really pissed, and it might have been a big enough group to to prevent Samus from winning actually. There would probably be like a Jill Stein on steroids kind of mega candidate that would have emerged, but it probably would have got us to a healthier. I think we might have been able to get to a healthier place because I think after this, there was enough people after the six that would have been ready to galvanize around something else after the molar thing.
  • Speaker 2
    0:45:21

    I just think that the collusion hoax as we learned is so baked in that fucking Brett Bayers panel even thinks it’s a collusion hoax that that for them to have thrown Trump overboard on that would have caused a massive result.
  • Speaker 1
    0:45:32

    Alright, Sarah. What do you think?
  • Speaker 3
    0:45:35

    I also I I like taking the second impeachment as a better example. But, no. I mean, the the voters It just goes back to Even them wanting Ron DeSantis, Santis is Trump Light, like, they don’t want Nikki Haley, they don’t want Mike Pence. I do think if we’d had Mike Pence, I mean, I think tough to know with a counterfactual like that. I do think they would have revolt, I think it would have mostly been bad for Mike Pence.
  • Speaker 3
    0:45:56

    Can you imagine trying to govern that faction, and I’m not sure.
  • Speaker 2
    0:45:59

    Maybe an assassination.
  • Speaker 3
    0:46:00

    Well, I wasn’t gonna say that, but I I did say the other day because I actually wanna talk about my pants because I think he’s gonna run.
  • Speaker 2
    0:46:07

    Oh, yeah.
  • Speaker 3
    0:46:08

    And I’ve been saying for a while I did not think he was gonna run because there’s no way they’re not doing their own audience research in focus groups, and if he is, He’s hearing the exact same thing I am, which is that everyone hates him.
  • Speaker 2
    0:46:17

    There is a way that they’re not doing that.
  • Speaker 1
    0:46:19

    Stop everything. We’re spending the rest of the show talking about Mike Pence twenty twenty four. Let’s go. I I’m I’m fascinated. Let’s talk.
  • Speaker 3
    0:46:26

    I’m just nobody hates this guy more than voters. Like, I mean, I don’t know how many times I have to say, like, he’s in the sour spot with voters. Half of them think he was a traitor to Donald Trump and want him killed. And the other half thing Maybe
  • Speaker 2
    0:46:39

    only a third one killed.
  • Speaker 3
    0:46:40

    Yeah. That’s true. But, like, the rest of them think, nice guy, but his political career’s over. He’s boring. I’m not interested.
  • Speaker 3
    0:46:46

    Like, Mike Pence doesn’t realize that Mike Pence, created the permission structure to no longer need Mike Pence. Because he said, hey, evangelicals, hey, Republican voters, you don’t need somebody who’s moral or ethical, Vote for the biggest son of a bitch in the room, and that’s just fine, and I approve of it. And everybody who had had some barrier to voting for that terrible moral person, got rid of that, and that’s broken, like, you’ve crossed the moral Rubicon and it’s over now, and he has rendered the need for his moral, whatever, it’s over.
  • Speaker 2
    0:47:17

    They’re not doing audience research because audience research is really expensive. And so He doesn’t have any money. And and he doesn’t have any money and he thinks he knows. He thinks he knows. Like, I know, it’s not that good.
  • Speaker 2
    0:47:26

    I don’t, you know, out of sight out of mind. I don’t wanna see it. There are two things that are happening to him. One thing, and I’ll give you two anecdotes. One is the CallRove anecdote.
  • Speaker 2
    0:47:33

    When I was on that panel with Carl Grove. And he I said this. I I basically was like, it’s key suggested Mike Pence could run and I was like, this is insane. I was like, you talked to any Republican voters? I was like, we have does Sarah does these great focus groups.
  • Speaker 2
    0:47:44

    You should listen to one Carl. And Carl’s like, I don’t know. I just took Mike Pence to an event in Texas. And he received a standing ovation. I was like, whoa.
  • Speaker 1
    0:47:53

    Was it the yelks line?
  • Speaker 2
    0:47:55

    I don’t know. It’s like the The FW post? That goes to Harlan Crorows I don’t know if it’s literally Harlin Croz sponsored it, but Harlan types were in the room. You know? It’s like And donors.
  • Speaker 2
    0:48:03

    Yeah. It’s like — Oh. — doner offense. Oh, big. Millionaires really liked him giving a standing ovation.
  • Speaker 2
    0:48:09

    So so Pence goes there and gets a standing ovation. She’s like, well, I could I think I could raise some money. All these rich people like me, And then you go to events at at religious things, and at county, at Republican, volunteer events in Iowa and conservative parts the country where there are evangelicals and the people in that second group that you said who say he’s a nice guy. Come up to him and they’re like, oh, I really you’re such a nice guy. You’re such a good role model.
  • Speaker 2
    0:48:31

    They tell him these positive things. Reminds me of when, you know, the huntsman campaign, when we started convincing ourselves that we’re making a comeback in New Hampshire. Because we hung out in New Hampshire all the time and so people started to recognize them. All the ads were in New Hampshire, all the things. So you start to feel this momentum, you’re like, oh, I was at strange brew and people and three people came up to me in said, hey, I’m with you.
  • Speaker 2
    0:48:49

    And like, what you didn’t know is that two of them were Democrats, and they were actually gonna vote for whoever was in the Democratic primary at that time. And One of them said they’re with them, but I don’t know, they’re still deciding between him and Romney. You know what I mean? Like, there’s confirmation bias that happens. And so I I think I I think that’s what’s happening to him.
  • Speaker 3
    0:49:06

    Let me just read you one of the quotes from one of my focus groups. He’s only gonna get the vote from his family and I’m not even sure if they like him. Like brutal. They’re brutal to him.
  • Speaker 2
    0:49:18

    Greg, you think Greg is gonna vote for him? I don’t even know about that. Mother will vote for him. I don’t know if Greg Greg Pence seems like a Trump Trump man to me. I
  • Speaker 1
    0:49:28

    I don’t know. It’s it’s a, you know, moments like this, epochs like this need tragedies. And the Mike Pence thing is a tragedy in the classical Greek sense. I mean in in the all of the senses. Right?
  • Speaker 1
    0:49:41

    You know, he he prostituted himself for this thing because he thought he was serving a higher purpose, then he actually did stand up at the very last minute when he was the only one
  • Speaker 2
    0:49:50

    who could.
  • Speaker 1
    0:49:51

    Then he gets no credit
  • Speaker 2
    0:49:52

    why it’s just actually more biblical than that. He thought he was serving higher purpose, but really he was serving the devil.
  • Speaker 1
    0:49:57

    Yeah. Yeah. Basically, no. It it is very biblical. Alright.
  • Speaker 1
    0:50:00

    Last one. No labels. Yes. Do do the the people. The people.
  • Speaker 2
    0:50:06

    Right there. That’s how I
  • Speaker 1
    0:50:07

    do the vain voice. That’s the secret. Do they ever bring up no labels? Do they do you guys ever ask them about no labels? Or like, do we need a third party?
  • Speaker 1
    0:50:15

    What do they think about third parties?
  • Speaker 3
    0:50:17

    There are some people who like Rand Paul as a third party. Let me just tell you third part these no label folks The appetite out there for the Mansion Hogan ticket.
  • Speaker 1
    0:50:29

    Oh, is there not a lot of appetite
  • Speaker 3
    0:50:30

    for that? No. There’s a little bit. It’s from Center Left voters. Or or, like, kinda conservative Democrats?
  • Speaker 3
    0:50:37

    I don’t know what
  • Speaker 2
    0:50:37

    Joe Biden’s a little too old and they voted for him. Yeah. They’re like, business guys. And they’re just like, yeah, we could we should use something in the middle.
  • Speaker 3
    0:50:44

    That’s right. Trump’s floor and his ceiling are like really close to each other. Mhmm. And like, he’s gonna get forty four percent of the Republican vote. Joe Biden might get thirty eight percent of the Democratic vote, you are going to reelect Donald Trump.
  • Speaker 3
    0:50:59

    There is no two ways about it. Everybody who’s listening, go tell no labels, this is not the time to for the play, their fantasy politics. With this.
  • Speaker 2
    0:51:07

    Unless they’re recruiting the rock. Yeah. Or somebody that has no you know, or unless they’re recruiting like who is the dirty jobs guy? Mike Roe. Mike Roe.
  • Speaker 2
    0:51:19

    Oh, your
  • Speaker 1
    0:51:19

    friend, Mike Rowe. My buddy, Mike Rowe.
  • Speaker 2
    0:51:21

    I don’t know. That would
  • Speaker 1
    0:51:22

    be a good guy. Yeah. They’re No. He doesn’t really do politics.
  • Speaker 2
    0:51:25

    Here’s the other thing. It’s just like, Nancy Jacobson and Mark Pen are grifters and they’re bad people. And that’s just the reality. There might be good people. I’m sure there are.
  • Speaker 2
    0:51:34

    I know there are good people who are associated with no labels, they are not.
  • Speaker 3
    0:51:38

    I’m not gonna go so far as to impugn anybody’s like whatever.
  • Speaker 2
    0:51:41

    I will do it.
  • Speaker 3
    0:51:41

    That’s I will just say You
  • Speaker 1
    0:51:43

    guys talk for a minute.
  • Speaker 3
    0:51:44

    Do not do do not support this idea. Tell them, loudly, it’s a bad idea. Talk them out of it. Don’t get sucked into this. It is it is big.
  • Speaker 2
    0:51:52

    But Mark Penney is the inventor of the birther attack in Barack Obama. Not Donald Trump, actually. Mark Pen, and he’s working for Hillary. Everybody rejected it. And it’s just not a it’s not a good gang over there.
  • Speaker 2
    0:52:05

    They they have some folks involved too I think are well intentioned but the vibe and weakness is like is part of this.
  • Speaker 3
    0:52:11

    So have I said this before? It’s taught me if I have. But I watched their launch ad and their launch ad is like, this is an insurance policy in the event of, you know, extreme candidates. And while they’re talking about it, they show Donald Trump And then they show AOC, Elizabeth Warren, and Bernie Sanders. None of whom are going to be the Democratic nominee for president.
  • Speaker 3
    0:52:34

    And to me, that level of dishonesty is the delusion. Right? Like, if they have to fake you out Let make you pretend like Joe Biden is not the incumbent. They’re not honest brokers and their strategy’s not honest.
  • Speaker 2
    0:52:47

    What were you looking on there, Jevio?
  • Speaker 1
    0:52:49

    Oh, somebody pops into I don’t wanna amplify misinformation but somebody in the chat asked, is this thing true? As far as I can tell that from my thirty seconds of of of looking around, it does not seem to be true.
  • Speaker 2
    0:53:01

    Mhmm. So I
  • Speaker 1
    0:53:02

    don’t wanna imply but if it had been true, we would have done this show for another half hour.
  • Speaker 2
    0:53:05

    Okay. Oh, well. Alright. But you can watch you can use that half hour watching Nicole Yokid Shilites.
  • Speaker 1
    0:53:10

    That’s okay.
  • Speaker 2
    0:53:11

    I think that everybody would really get a lot of value.
  • Speaker 1
    0:53:13

    Good show long show. Can I say that now? Yeah. But Okay.
  • Speaker 3
    0:53:16

    Kinda along great. We coming to New York already, there’s still time to buy tickets. We have almost
  • Speaker 1
    0:53:20

    five hundred people
  • Speaker 3
    0:53:21

    coming, but there’s still it’s a big venue.
  • Speaker 2
    0:53:23

    So I’m missing the first quarter of the nuggets chance for you people?
  • Speaker 1
    0:53:27

    That’s amazing.
  • Speaker 3
    0:53:27

    Are you gonna, like, do the live event now
  • Speaker 2
    0:53:29

    dot com? I’m gonna do the live event. I’m gonna be there. I’m gonna hang out afterwards — Yeah.
  • Speaker 1
    0:53:34

  • Speaker 2
    0:53:34

    during the hangout time. I’ll probably be looking at my phone a little bit. And, you know, then I’m gonna find a local sports pub.
  • Speaker 1
    0:53:40

    Come over to my house.
  • Speaker 3
    0:53:41

    Yeah. It’ll take you, like, forty five the transit?
  • Speaker 2
    0:53:44

    I wanna worry. I might miss some I might miss some of the action while in transit, but it’s a good idea.
  • Speaker 1
    0:53:49

    If you’re new here, go over and subscribe to the next level feed. Also, Go to the bulwark dot com and sign up. We give up basically it’s the the dumbest business model you’ve ever seen. We make all this great stuff, we don’t do ads and then we give it away for free. Charlie Sykes Sign
  • Speaker 3
    0:54:03

    up for the free list.
  • Speaker 1
    0:54:04

    Charlie Sykes writes a fantastic newsletter that sets the table every morning. You can get it at the bulwark dot com. Next Sunday, as our guest, we’re gonna have Molly Jong fast on the Sunday next level show. Go and subscribe to the next level show. Give us thumbs up.
  • Speaker 1
    0:54:18

    I think the Google algorithm likes all those things. Hit subscribe. Subscribe to us, give us the likes, leave comments, anything else from you guys before we sign off here.
  • Speaker 3
    0:54:26

    If you like watching the live stream, I guess, tell us we’re interested in more YouTube content — Yeah.
  • Speaker 1
    0:54:31

  • Speaker 2
    0:54:31

    live stream feedback. How did we do? What would you like more of?
  • Speaker 3
    0:54:34

    Yeah. It’s weird to be in person.
  • Speaker 2
    0:54:36

    This little weird.
  • Speaker 3
    0:54:37

    It’s like the eye contact is definitely
  • Speaker 2
    0:54:38

    weird to have an audience. It’s it’s lost about you guys. What’s weird about to have the audience? Like, I don’t I don’t like the immediate feedback. About whether or not there’s laughter.
  • Speaker 2
    0:54:45

    Like to me, all my jokes are funny because I’m alone and so I’m laughing in my head. Sure. And now it’s like I make a joke and these two don’t laugh and that kind of that that messes with me a little bit.
  • Speaker 3
    0:54:54

    Yep. They’ve been texting me the whole time, which is then I’ve, like, they they
  • Speaker 2
    0:54:58

    You know, we’re working at the kinks, but I thought it was pretty good for our first one.
  • Speaker 1
    0:55:01

    Thank you. Alright.
  • Speaker 2
    0:55:14

    Dissecting politics with exclusive interviews, commentary, and humor, useful idiots with Katie Halper and
  • Speaker 1
    0:55:15

    Aaron Mate. I really
  • Speaker 6
    0:55:22

    don’t like sharks, and I think we live in a very shark agandistic world. Quote, one thing to keep in mind is sharks who are not out there trying to eat surfers and swimmers They’d much rather eat fish, but in many cases they mistake us for their actual prey. When they do bite, they usually move on. That’s supposed to make us feel better?
  • Speaker 1
    0:55:39

    Useful idiots, wherever you listen.
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