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Adam Kinzinger: Yes, Russian Propaganda Is Infecting the GOP

April 9, 2024
Notes
Transcript
Two powerful Republican congressmen say some of their colleagues are advancing Russian propaganda, but they’re still letting Moscow Marjorie run the show. Plus, Biden needs to hammer the GOP on Ukraine, Trump’s weird smell, and how the Bush 43 contingent in Texas can help KO Ted Cruz. Kinzinger joins Tim Miller.

show notes:

Tim’s article on Red Dog Democrats
Trump ad, with his head blocking out the sun

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors and omissions. Ironically, the transcription service has particular problems with the word “bulwark,” so you may see it mangled as “Bullard,” “Boulart,” or even “bull word.” Enjoy!
  • Speaker 1
    0:00:08

    Hello and welcome to the Bulwark podcast. I’m your host Tim Miller. I’m just so thrilled to be here with my old pal former Republican Congress from Illinois. Jeb Busch and Dorcey. Yeah.
  • Speaker 1
    0:00:19

    In Dore, and Dorcey. I think probably mutual. Senior political commentator for CNN, founder of Country First which backs pro democracy candidates. You had a book called Rana Gade. You have a sub stack newsletter.
  • Speaker 1
    0:00:31

    You have a child. You’re keeping busy, Kenzinger.
  • Speaker 2
    0:00:34

    Yeah. I’m trying, you know. It’s, when you’re not in cars, you got plenty of time to do other things, like live life and enjoy life And, you know, enjoying life is important. We talked about this
  • Speaker 1
    0:00:44

    the end of the podcast yesterday with Bill Crystal, and I think that a key constituency for Joe Biden as people who just enjoy life. Yeah. You know, these are Joe Biden’s core supporters.
  • Speaker 2
    0:00:55

    Yeah. They just they’re not angry. They’re like, looking for Not upset.
  • Speaker 1
    0:00:59

    For some violation of their rights or when I, you know, they’re just within violation of their you know, patriotic correctness. Right. You know, nobody offended them. There wasn’t a trans person giving them coffee this morning. They’re not upset about that.
  • Speaker 1
    0:01:12

    Anyway, we’ll get into all that. I meant to get to this yesterday and forgot. And you’re the person to talk to it about. A couple of congressman, couple of mics. A couple of your former colleagues, Mike McCall, and Mike Turner.
  • Speaker 1
    0:01:22

    Current Republicans, they both indicated over the weekend that they think some of their colleagues have become susceptible to Russian propaganda and are advancing up. Let’s let’s just take real quick.
  • Speaker 3
    0:01:33

    Let’s turn to Ukraine, an issue that’s important to you, and your fellow Republican chairman, Michael McCall, who runs the Foreign Affairs Committee, congressman McCall made a comment this week about, what he says sounds like Russian propaganda from some conservative media, and why it’s so difficult to to Republican voters why supporting Ukraine is important. He told Julia Yaffe, quote, I think Russian propaganda has made its way into the United States, unfortunately, and it’s infected a good chunk of my party’s base. He singled out primetime shows on conservative channels. Do you agree with him? And and how big is this problem?
  • Speaker 4
    0:02:07

    Oh, it it is absolutely true. We see directly coming from Russia. Attempts to mask communications that are anti Ukraine and pro Russia messages, some of which we even hear being uttered on the house floor. I mean, there are members of Congress today who still incorrectly say that this conflict between Russia and Ukraine is over NATO, which, of course, it is not.
  • Speaker 1
    0:02:26

    Just two Republican congressmen saying that these I do think this would be from page news. Like, you have two Republican congresses like my party infected with Russian propaganda. Anyway, what’s what’s your taking all that? Well, I mean, let’s let’s look in
  • Speaker 2
    0:02:41

    a different world. This has just been like a non enemy France. Right? If they’re like, yeah, French propaganda, government of France, people would be outraged. This is Russia.
  • Speaker 2
    0:02:49

    This isn’t just some, you know, country that we’re agnostic about. This is one of our enemies. Look, they’re both right. Obviously, they’re both right.
  • Speaker 1
    0:02:57

    Yes.
  • Speaker 2
    0:02:57

    But here’s what really kinda drives me nuts about that, Tim. Yes. They’re both right. They’re also both going along with the Russian propaganda in the party. It’s saying, yes, Okay, Tim.
  • Speaker 2
    0:03:10

    I’m gonna come in front of you because you have an audience that’ll react well to this, which is what you did on CNN. Yes. Russian propaganda is in and people are gonna praise me for saying that, but then he goes back today. Both of these mics will go back today to Washington, DC, and not pull the trigger on forcing this bill to the floor. Now maybe they will eventually But it’s been six months of them listening to Russian propaganda.
  • Speaker 2
    0:03:39

    And these aren’t just two rank and file Republicans. These are the two Republicans that are ahead of the most powerful committees dealing with this issue, foreign affairs, and intel. And yet, they’ll go on CNN and say it. And again, I I don’t wanna discourage that, so I’m not sitting here just like crapping all over, but it’s like, At the same time, you two alone.
  • Speaker 1
    0:04:00

    Just sit her newsmax.
  • Speaker 2
    0:04:02

    Yeah. You go to newsmax. Go to Fox. Put out a tweet. You two alone.
  • Speaker 2
    0:04:08

    Without anybody else with, you can guarantee that the aid bill gets on the floor. And yet again, it’s this go to the correct you know, news outlet where you can say the things because nobody on your Fox outlet’s gonna be watching CNN, and then just go quiet and let Marjorie Taylor Green run the date. That’s what drives me nuts because this isn’t just an exercise in what are our tax rates gonna be you know, are the trains gonna run on time? This is human life. And it just drives me nuts.
  • Speaker 1
    0:04:38

    This is the thing that that is kinda related to your point. Right? But it’s like If you’ve accepted the premise, if you’ve accepted the premise, the the reason why the aid isn’t going to Ukraine is because Russian propaganda has infected your party. Then there’s, like, a natural response that should follow on to that premise. Right?
  • Speaker 1
    0:04:54

    Which that that I should do something to combat this. I should maybe work with the Democrats. I should use some procedural maneuvers. I should confront the propaganda. Right?
  • Speaker 1
    0:05:04

    But it’s like, they think that that’s the end. Right? Like, they acknowledge that this is happening. That’s bad. But now I don’t have to do anything about it.
  • Speaker 1
    0:05:10

    That’s not my responsibility.
  • Speaker 2
    0:05:11

    It’s like My body is riddled with cancer. Do you wanna go to one? Right? Like, how about no. How about we take you to the hospital?
  • Speaker 2
    0:05:22

    Right. So that you can figure out how to get rid of this. Right? It’s like
  • Speaker 1
    0:05:26

    Kemo is called for over on NewsMax.
  • Speaker 2
    0:05:28

    Yeah. Oh, I’ve never had chemo, but, like, chemo isn’t fun. Everybody I know that’s had it, it’s brutal just like taking on Russian propaganda and infection in your party, but it looks like The two guys, like Mike Turner and Mike McCall are the most respected on foreign policy left in the Congress. And they’ll go on TV and say, Russian propaganda’s infected our party, but boy, I’m endorsing Donald Trump for twenty twenty four because, you know, make America great again.
  • Speaker 1
    0:05:56

    Do you see these guys in the CNN green room, not your CNN map, you know, like, the remaining normals? Like, are they mad at you because you say this sort of stuff? Or do they are they whispering? Hey, with you. Keep going.
  • Speaker 1
    0:06:07

    Like, what kind of what are you getting from them?
  • Speaker 2
    0:06:09

    Oh, so it’s like it’s funny. I stay in touch with a lot of people, you know, and they’re they’re still polite I try to put myself on the other end, which is like when I was in Congress, if there was somebody that was kind of critical of what we were doing, what I hate them. And the answer is no, because I’m like, I probably would agree with them, you know, in a large part. So Most of these folks, yeah, I stay in touch with. I mean, there’s a few that I’ve have no contact with.
  • Speaker 2
    0:06:33

    Mike Gallagher is one of those because you know, he was a huge disappointment on impeachment. And I heard your discussion about his early retirement. And I agree. I mean, Mike Gallagher should be the one right now on the floor of the house to rep ended of shutting the floor down for god’s sakes. He’s leaving.
  • Speaker 2
    0:06:46

    He’s
  • Speaker 1
    0:06:46

    got nothing better. He’s got ten days. Ten days left might as well do something.
  • Speaker 2
    0:06:50

    And he’s not gonna run for office again. Retiring this early. And so but I stay in touch with most of them. Look, I get it from their perspective. I don’t agree.
  • Speaker 2
    0:07:00

    I understand how hard it is to speak out, but like for god’s sakes, this is this is just such a moment in history, and I’m not saying this is like just to make a good podcast. Like, I really believe, like, in my lifetime, this is the most important thing that we have ever dealt with.
  • Speaker 1
    0:07:16

    Did this being the Ukraine Russia war or this the democratic threat or the whole the whole kit and kaboodle.
  • Speaker 2
    0:07:21

    I think it’s all of it, but I I guess in this context, it’s Ukraine. It’s the Russian interference. It’s the division in the country. It’s like the most important moment. And like these guys could get statues and key built to them.
  • Speaker 2
    0:07:33

    They real literally could get, you know, Mike McCall Avenue in downtown Keith, and they just can’t do it.
  • Speaker 1
    0:07:39

    Let’s talk about what that looks like. So, you know, you’re talking about how maybe Gallagher could be shutting down the floor. There are a lot of procedural. This is really more of my husband’s turf than mine when she get into kind of what is happening in the procedure on the Capitol Hill and the Kena of how to, you know, get bills moved to the floor. I was never a hill man, but you were over there.
  • Speaker 1
    0:07:58

    So I talked about what some of those options are. To me, is a is an insider outside. Right? It’s somebody who who knows Washington but doesn’t know the hill stuff. I’m like, why are these guys getting circles run around them by Matt Gates and Marjorie Taylor Green?
  • Speaker 1
    0:08:10

    Like, it doesn’t seem like it’s that hard. To exert your will if morons like Marjorie Taylor Green can do it. You know? So, like, what could they do? Why aren’t they doing it?
  • Speaker 2
    0:08:19

    I can get long winded on this. So if I am just give me
  • Speaker 5
    0:08:22

    a signal.
  • Speaker 2
    0:08:22

    Right? Okay.
  • Speaker 1
    0:08:23

    Yeah. Alright.
  • Speaker 2
    0:08:23

    Here’s the thing. When you go to Congress, the first thing they tell you is you know, on procedural votes. Now procedural votes are things like rules. Rules, you have to vote on a rule before any bill or any action on the floor happens. So it’s basically the house saying, okay, here’s how many minutes of debate, etcetera, etcetera.
  • Speaker 2
    0:08:44

    K? Right. So anytime there’s a bill that comes on the floor, there has to be a rule vote.
  • Speaker 1
    0:08:49

    Before the bill vote, before any amendments, before any motion.
  • Speaker 2
    0:08:52

    And before the discussions, yep. And so that’s one thing. Then you have other stuff, which I won’t go into called, like, motions to recommit, whatever. All that is called procedural votes. Okay?
  • Speaker 2
    0:09:02

    What it means, it’s just governance procedure. When you go to Congress, your party says, look, we all have to vote together on these issues. And that was the agreement. Like, you could disagree with the bill, but you gotta support your party on the floor rules. The Freedom caucus is the ones that started violating that really for the first time, at least in modern history, where they now will vote against rules.
  • Speaker 2
    0:09:25

    And what that does is it can shut down the floor from doing anything. So imagine being in DC for two weeks, and now you have a group of people saying the floor can do nothing, including even really come into session. So That’s why they have such power. So if there’s a group of ten of us sitting in a room and I hand everybody a hand grenade,
  • Speaker 1
    0:09:45

    just really quick before you get to hand grenade analogy for the layman out there. So when people hear that Mike Johnson isn’t bringing something to the floor, part of that is the speaker’s discretion, but part of that is because there’s a group of people that are like, no, we’re not gonna let you bring it to the floor because we’ll vote down the rule. Right. Right. That’s essentially how it’s going.
  • Speaker 2
    0:10:03

    They’ll, like, we’ll vote down the rule, and you’ll see that in some of the, like, kind of, you know, keep the government open stuff.
  • Speaker 1
    0:10:09

    Yeah.
  • Speaker 2
    0:10:09

    Or they’ll, as you see right now, softly threaten him with emotion to vacate. And he doesn’t wanna get vacated. And so that’s why he’s kind of paralyzed. And I think he is paralyzed right now, to be honest with you. But if you put ten people in a room, I give everybody a hand grenade.
  • Speaker 2
    0:10:24

    We all have the equal amount of power. Right? None of us will wanna pull the pin on that hand grenade. But if there is a psycho in that room that wants to all of a sudden pull the pin on that hand grenade, They become the most powerful person even though we all have the same tools. And that’s what you’ve seen in the Freedom Club.
  • Speaker 2
    0:10:40

    I call them the Freedom Club because it’s like there’s nothing serious about them.
  • Speaker 1
    0:10:43

    They’re not Caucus. They haven’t earned the right to be a caucus.
  • Speaker 2
    0:10:46

    No. No. No. You gotta be a respectable American for that. But They are willing to pull the pen on the hand grenade.
  • Speaker 2
    0:10:54

    And the problem is, like, until you call their bluff and one of the ten pulls the hand Ron DeSantis you’re willing to be like, alright, I can play this game too and see if they’re very serious, they’re always gonna be the most powerful person. So that’s the moment with the Ukraine stuff right now. You have discharge petitions, which I can get into if you’re curious, but neither of those are gonna pass. What can really happen to compel this is if just two. Maybe it takes three.
  • Speaker 2
    0:11:23

    It depends how many are in DC that day. Sane Republicans, go to the speaker of the house and say, we, like the Freedom caucus does, we will vote against every rule with the Democrats that comes to the floor until you agree to put the aid package on the floor for an up or down vote. He would be forced to do that, by the way, because now he couldn’t nothing could happen on the floor, and it would actually give speaker Johnson cover to get this done Right. Because he’d be like, I have two guys. But nobody’s got the courage to do it.
  • Speaker 2
    0:11:54

    I don’t get it. If I was still in DC Tim, this is the one thing I would be doing is voting against every rule, I would be staying in DC. I would be on every microphone, which I’m good at, and just be like, I’m gonna shut down the floor until they put this on the floor.
  • Speaker 1
    0:12:07

    Help me understand the psychology. And, you know, we don’t have to rake our friend Mike Galgo over the Coles any more than we already have, but they were just like I really don’t understand why.
  • Speaker 5
    0:12:17

    Oh, I do.
  • Speaker 1
    0:12:17

    I would understand it if they were trying to do political survival. Right. But a handful of people have quit Like, enough people to do what you’re asking for have have quit. That, like, they could have just done this rather than quit. Yep.
  • Speaker 1
    0:12:30

    So why? Is it is it You
  • Speaker 2
    0:12:31

    wanna know the reason?
  • Speaker 1
    0:12:32

    Yeah, please. Six way.
  • Speaker 2
    0:12:33

    Financial. I won’t go into details, but in my case, I’ve I’ve talked to people about some that, like, kinda post Congress stuff. And it’s like, well, wait. Wait until we see if Donald Trump wins and then come and talk because if he wins, you’re gonna piss him off and we don’t want you involved. Right?
  • Speaker 2
    0:12:49

    And it’s like, I get that in a way.
  • Speaker 1
    0:12:50

    Oh, these guys aren’t gonna return your call. Right. You know, if I’m Raytheon and I wanna hire Adam Kenzinger, it’s like, well, actually, maybe I and hire him. I should maybe hire Mike Gallagher because, like, all Republicans will return his call still because he wasn’t the turd in the punch bowl.
  • Speaker 2
    0:13:04

    And that’s the key. Now the rumor is Gallagher is going to Palantir. Right? He’s probably gonna be Palantir’s guy in the hill, make a ton of money, He can’t piss anybody off. That’s what this all is.
  • Speaker 1
    0:13:17

    That sounds like a prison. It doesn’t sound that great to me, actually. That sounds like a rich prison.
  • Speaker 2
    0:13:21

    It is a rich prison. It is because at this moment, I guarantee you. And again, we’re picking on Mike, but there’s so many people that this falls under. Yeah.
  • Speaker 1
    0:13:28

    We got there a million examples of this. It’s just that, like, he’s, he’s when we back the most
  • Speaker 2
    0:13:32

    up. Yeah.
  • Speaker 5
    0:13:32

    He is.
  • Speaker 1
    0:13:33

    Like, we can pick on Ken Buck if we want. But, like, he was a tea party guy from Graley, you know, anyway. I, like, my Gallagher was the great hope for our people. You know, so we’re disappointed. Yeah.
  • Speaker 1
    0:13:42

    That’s that’s why we pick on them.
  • Speaker 2
    0:13:43

    Yeah. And so, you know, it’s that. And it’s like, well, look. Okay. So now in the last three weeks of Congress, I’m gonna make sure I get everybody’s cell phone in there on the floor, which he’s doing.
  • Speaker 2
    0:13:53

    I guarantee. And I need to make sure I don’t tick everybody off because Like, I get it. He’s out in three weeks. Right? But again, that’s what you have.
  • Speaker 2
    0:14:02

    I think I’ve told you to him probably offline. I’m like, I think people fear more than they fear death, they fear being kicked out of the tribe because that’s like a social circle. You and I have both experienced that. It sucks. Right?
  • Speaker 1
    0:14:15

    Right.
  • Speaker 2
    0:14:15

    You know, that’s like your identity. On top of that, you fear losing any economic opportunity. And I think a lot of this is what what it has to do with, to be honest with you.
  • Speaker 1
    0:14:26

    To me, it seems like the Wall Street Jonathan Last their mind, but I wanna be open to trying to understand our argument. Wall Street Journal editorial board yesterday, had a headline that made me think about the opposite day. It said Mike Johnson’s Ukraine moment, colon. The house speaker is stepping up. But Biden needs to help get Democratic votes.
  • Speaker 1
    0:14:45

    Now to me, it’s like, either Democrats have already passed your Canadian and the Democrats seem to want Ukraine. I assume what they’re talking about, there’s this discharge petition that the Democrats should be going on with some different type of I I what the fuck are they talking about? Help me understand what they’re about?
  • Speaker 2
    0:15:00

    I think it’s two things. It’s there’s two discharge petitions, which Mike fitzpatrick, you know, has one that’s, like, basically, with Remaine and Mac go and all the immigration stuff. He’s got eighteen signatures on that. Not even the Republicans are signing on to that, which is weird. And then there’s the discharge petition Which, by the way, these are rarely done.
  • Speaker 2
    0:15:20

    The last successful one I was involved in was in twenty fifteen. The last successful one before that was two thousand. So this is how rare these things are. The other discharge petition is, like, just the straight up senate bill. So I think what the Wall Street Journal is saying is, like, Mike Johnson stepping up because he’s made statements like, oh, I wanna pass Ukraine with this, like, kind of hardcore border bill, border security bill.
  • Speaker 2
    0:15:43

    And so they’re like Democrats have gotta come over on this. Look, I I think the border’s messed up. And I actually think that they need to do quite a bit more on border security, but Republicans in my mind have lost any moral authority on that because they turned down the one compromise they got that was actually pretty decent. You know, done by Langford. They’ve lost all authority.
  • Speaker 2
    0:16:04

    So I think that Wall Street Journal is trying desperately to turn this against the Democrats. I will say though, I don’t know why Joe Biden and his team are not out there every day. Hammering the Republicans on Ukraine every day. And I’ve gotta tell you everybody’s like, how does Joe Biden win the twenty percent Nikki Haley voters? It’s really simple.
  • Speaker 2
    0:16:28

    Fight and win you create.
  • Speaker 1
    0:16:29

    Okay. I wanna get back to the political side of this. But let’s just on the policy first. Is the answer that that that Bides, you know, playing a little bit of poker ear. He’s got this cards close to his chest, and it’s like, well, if I get out there, and start doing this.
  • Speaker 1
    0:16:42

    That’s gonna make it harder on these people, the McCalls of the world. I don’t even know if I agree with that, but I I I think that’s their theory of the case.
  • Speaker 2
    0:16:51

    Yeah. I I don’t really actually think so. I think, you know, look, he went hard during the state of the union. Right? And that would be the time when you would wanna throttle back a little if If you were worried about that, honestly, the overused term now, occam’s razor
  • Speaker 5
    0:17:04

    is
  • Speaker 1
    0:17:05

    Is occam’s razor overused now? I gotta I gotta find a new theory. I think so. To get chastised at a dinner recently for for using occam’s razor.
  • Speaker 2
    0:17:13

    And, like, what was the other one overton window? Yeah.
  • Speaker 1
    0:17:15

    The overton window.
  • Speaker 2
    0:17:16

    But I like that one still. That’s still in vogue. But anyway, So Ocum’s razor, in my mind, is I think there are still elements of the National Security Council. It may not be Joe Biden himself. That are worried about escalation.
  • Speaker 2
    0:17:29

    There’s this escalation fear in Russia, and they wanna see Russia not when but they’re fearful of what happens if Russia loses. And I think that’s the concern, and it’s kinda like we don’t wanna own Ukraine. If we get out there too much in front, Ukraine loses, then we own it? Well, if Ukraine loses, you own it. Like, I hate to tell you.
  • Speaker 2
    0:17:49

    That’s just that’s just a fact.
  • Speaker 1
    0:17:50

    Maybe this is what’s happening, but To me, the occam’s razor, we’ll just occam’s razor back and forth at each other. What’s the most obvious answer here? Let’s do it. Here’s the to me with the most obvious answers. The Democrats want this.
  • Speaker 1
    0:18:01

    They’ve been willing to sacrifice things that, you know, create problems with their own base for this on immigration as you mentioned. They’ve passed it. They’re not even really playing hardball. It’s not like they’re forcing the Republicans to be like, oh, we’ll only go along if you do this. To me, this most simplest answer is they want this.
  • Speaker 1
    0:18:19

    The Republicans are bumbling it. Like, one of Joe Biden’s strengths is not the bully pulpit. And so he’s like not using it. The democrats are just kinda like, well, let’s let the Republicans, like, fumble with their decks for a while, and we’ll just sit here. We wish we could have the money for Ukraine, but we don’t know what else to do because it’s their fault.
  • Speaker 1
    0:18:35

    And so we’re just gonna sit here and wait and watch their little shit show. To me, I think that’s what’s happening.
  • Speaker 2
    0:18:39

    Yeah. And I think we kind of agree on that. I do think that’s what’s going on. You know, my criticism is, as you said, Joe Biden is not the best bully pulpit. And I think he needs to be in this case.
  • Speaker 2
    0:18:50

    I think his even if it’s not him, his team needs to be in this case, because I actually think I think this is an issue you can beat Republicans on. I think you can beat him in the election because I do think Haley’s voters, for as we talk about Haley’s voters, it’s twenty percent of the Republican electorate. They all, ninety nine percent of them, it’s probably in their top two or three phase. So I think it’s important to get out there.
  • Speaker 1
    0:19:11

    Just on the policy of this. I am I’m curious your perspective. You know, I haven’t been a congressman having served looking at the Biden team right now. There are people that are, like, one little baby step to the right of you, or maybe not even to the right, but to the to the Maga of you. Like, one one step more Maga curious.
  • Speaker 1
    0:19:29

    They’re like, you’re not Maga curious at all. And they, like, don’t like Maga, but they’re a little curious. Right? Like, so you know the type I’m talking about. We’re
  • Speaker 5
    0:19:36

    just in
  • Speaker 1
    0:19:36

    the Wall Street Journal World.
  • Speaker 2
    0:19:38

    They’ve delved into. They’ve experimented. Yeah.
  • Speaker 1
    0:19:40

    They’re dipping their toe in a little bit, seeing how seeing how warm it feels. If you ask them, about the Haley donor class and the Wall Street Journal types. And then the calls this world about the Biden foreign policy. Like, they’ll say, well, you know, I don’t know. They he hasn’t been doing enough on Ukraine.
  • Speaker 1
    0:19:58

    He’s been being a little too mean to be be, and I that might make me vote for Trump. I assume that you’re, like, kind of sympathetic to their foreign policy critiques of biden. So I’m curious how you grade biden on foreign policy and then how you compare that to Trump. Just just purely on the see merits.
  • Speaker 2
    0:20:13

    I’m sympathetic in that. Like, I think Biden has a weak foreign policy. Right? I think so. But I think the choice is weak versus evil.
  • Speaker 2
    0:20:23

    And I’ll take weak any day. You know, the thing is is, like, the houthis, I’m kinda like, Israel, I get it. Okay. That is this is a tough
  • Speaker 1
    0:20:32

    The Houthis, you’re like, we should be bombing the Houthis more. That’s weird.
  • Speaker 2
    0:20:34

    Yeah. I mean, it’s like, what was it that just came out the other day that we offered to take them yet again off the terrorist list if they quit attacking in the Red Sea. I mean, I I think Let’s
  • Speaker 1
    0:20:42

    send a few ICBMs in Tahuthi Terre that’s where Kenziker’s at?
  • Speaker 2
    0:20:46

    Let’s see what happens. No. Maybe a few more five hundred pound.
  • Speaker 1
    0:20:49

    Crystal and yesterday called for no fly zone in Ukraine, and now you want some bomb, the houthis. Open to well, this is this should be the place to have these discussions. So let’s move that over to window.
  • Speaker 2
    0:20:59

    I’ve been all for the Ukraine no fly zone, but anyway, so You know, after those two Americans were killed in the Middle East, we bombed the living hell out of Iranian proxies, and it’s gone quiet for two months. I think that’s an important message.
  • Speaker 1
    0:21:11

    Fair point.
  • Speaker 2
    0:21:11

    On foreign policy, c plus, b minus not not terrible. Like, I What’s
  • Speaker 1
    0:21:16

    your Israel critique?
  • Speaker 2
    0:21:17

    I’d probably put it about see. I mean, I understand the tough position he’s in. And I mean, you look at Reagan in nineteen eighty two. Reagan was no Israel. You know, yeah.
  • Speaker 2
    0:21:25

    He was no huge Israel star. But but But at the same time, I think it’s important to keep in mind, you know, we destroyed we flattened Mosul to defeat ISIS. The difference is the people of Moz had a place to go. What’s happening in Gaza? Egypt and Jordan Will Saletan people in.
  • Speaker 2
    0:21:45

    That’s the difference. Right? Right. War is still being kinda handled the same way. Anyway, that said, This idea that Donald Trump was any good on foreign policy is garbage.
  • Speaker 2
    0:21:55

    He was the weakest president. He’s evil and weak. You know, everybody will say to me, well, Russia never would have invaded Ukraine if Trump was present. Okay. Maybe that’s true.
  • Speaker 2
    0:22:10

    Maybe it’s not. We have no way of knowing, but it wouldn’t have been because they were scared of American response to an invasion. It’s because he wouldn’t have needed to invade because Vladimir Putin was getting everything he wanted anyway.
  • Speaker 1
    0:22:24

    Right.
  • Speaker 2
    0:22:25

    The only thing Trump did that was worth praising, and it is worth praising, is killing Soleimani. That was Mike Pompeo’s decision But guess what? Trump gets credit for that, and the Democrats get a bad on him because they were screaming about World War three. Remember when they shut down that giant drone that was three hundred million dollars, and we did nothing. Remember when they hit the Saudi oil field and we did nothing?
  • Speaker 2
    0:22:48

    Remember when they bombed US troops and we did nothing. Remember when Donald Trump stood by Vladimir Putin and said he believes him over his own intelligence agencies. I was in the Oval Office with Donald Trump When he said that president Xi asked him for a little favor and could we do it, which was to take Chinese telecom ZTE out of the sanctions list because He asked him a personal favor, ZTE, which is spying on the United States. Donald Trump was the worst Tim, the worst foreign policy president, not even about his personality, about his just actions. And this is what concerns me as there’s like blessed memory of Donald Trump’s foreign policy and economic policy.
  • Speaker 2
    0:23:26

    He was a frigging disaster.
  • Speaker 1
    0:23:29

    It’s a great rant. And I’ll add to it. I’m reading David Sanger’s books, we’re gonna have him on the pod. Hopefully, next few weeks. I had forgotten because it happened right before January sixth.
  • Speaker 1
    0:23:38

    Got washed away kind of in just the news craziness. Do you remember the solar winds attack, the cyber attack on
  • Speaker 2
    0:23:45

    I forgot all about that.
  • Speaker 1
    0:23:46

    Yes. Me too. I’m reading the book and I was like, oh, right. Russia committed a cyber attack on our government. A very serious one.
  • Speaker 5
    0:23:53

    Very
  • Speaker 1
    0:23:53

    Well, we lost a lot of government workers private information, high level cyber attack, not one of these, like, random ones that penetrated the federal government Trump puts out a tweet that’s like, maybe it’s the Chinese. The fake news always say Russia, Russia, Russia. Right? It’s like Trump is doing propaganda for the people that literally are attacking our government, and it just kinda got washed away because the next day the capital got stormed.
  • Speaker 2
    0:24:17

    So I don’t know what’s been declassified. I got the classified briefing of it, so I’ll have to speak kinda high level. SolarWinds was not a one time intrusion hack. This was an infection that at least at the time I was in, and then I course, I got sidetracked a lot of January six stuff. The government was talking about, like, good jillions of dollars of damage to actual government infrastructure I’m sure they’ve been going after it now.
  • Speaker 2
    0:24:43

    I’m glad you brought that up. I forgot all about that. And that was like, like, made Edward snowden look like a kitty cat type devastating off to the US government. And Donald Trump, what does he do? Right.
  • Speaker 2
    0:24:54

    I mean, look, the Havana syndrome story that just came out. What is Maga doing? They’re calling it a ray a Russia has a Ray gun. Sure. Yeah.
  • Speaker 2
    0:25:02

    You’re always going after Russia. Russia is cooking the brains of American government workers
  • Speaker 5
    0:25:09

    with microwave directed microwave energy, which we’ve known for
  • Speaker 2
    0:25:09

    decades exists and can exist. So it’s not a magic ray gun on a sci fi film. And Maga is out there defending Russia and pretending like we’re making the whole thing up. Screw them. Period.
  • Speaker 1
    0:25:24

    NeoCon Power hours over for now.
  • Speaker 2
    0:25:26

    Thank you.
  • Speaker 1
    0:25:29

    Do a little politicking. You’re in Texas now. Right?
  • Speaker 2
    0:25:32

    I am. Yeah.
  • Speaker 1
    0:25:32

    You’re one of many people that have moved to Texas that are of your ilk. College educated. You went to college. Right? Yeah.
  • Speaker 1
    0:25:39

    Where’d you? What’s your alma mater?
  • Speaker 2
    0:25:41

    Illinois state, baby. I was a Ivy Leagueer. Got straight seas.
  • Speaker 1
    0:25:45

    Illinois state. What? That used to have a Native American name when you switched. Right?
  • Speaker 2
    0:25:49

    No. It didn’t. Illinois did. That was the Elinae, which is still based on the chief, Redbirds. I mean, look,
  • Speaker 1
    0:25:57

    the redbirds. I knew it was a red something I had red in my mind, and maybe that’s why I had Native American. Okay. Well, redbirds. Alright.
  • Speaker 1
    0:26:03

    Illinois State Redbird. College educated. You’ve moved to Texas. I assume you’re living in the suburbs or somewhere suburb ish. Yeah.
  • Speaker 1
    0:26:10

    You know, probably voted for Mitt Romney and then are kind of like, whoa. I don’t know what’s happening here with the Republicans. And it’s people like you that are kind of turning Texas a little bit. I’m not sure that, like, Texas. We’re not, like, into swing state territory.
  • Speaker 1
    0:26:24

    I’m not I’m not into delusional This is like Texas. I think we’ll be closer than Florida. Yeah. This time. People like you.
  • Speaker 1
    0:26:30

    So you were talking about the Nikki Haley voter. You’re that’s you. So I’m just wondering how you assess how Biden is doing with that group and what advice you’d have.
  • Speaker 2
    0:26:39

    The Texas thing, it’s funny. We kinda moved here accidentally. It was just kinda we came here after all the death threats, and then Moving across the country with a family is not easy, and we really like the Woodlands, which is where we’re at now in North Houston. And my wife let me buy a big plane, if I stayed here. So I was good with that.
  • Speaker 2
    0:26:55

    So I had my own big plane now.
  • Speaker 1
    0:26:57

    Former fighter pilot. I’ve spent time in the woodland. So, yeah, that’s good. Good. Houston got good food there.
  • Speaker 1
    0:27:02

    Cool. You know, a lot of good ethnic food. Yeah.
  • Speaker 2
    0:27:04

    Yeah. And it’s close to the Houston airport, which is nice. And then the airport, I keep the plane out. But Texas is is obviously crazy. Like, the Republican politics here is bat Shittery.
  • Speaker 2
    0:27:14

    But I think there is still this kind of undercurrent. It’ll be interesting to see how Colin Allred does in the Senate race because he’s about as moderate as a dim of a Democrat as the Democrats have put up. You know, I’ve thought about, like, is there room for conservative Democrats in Texas? Because if the Democrats play their game right, they would put up a conservative democrat, you know, just like You know, Republicans should be putting up liberal Republicans in Illinois. I think really the longer we go into this election season.
  • Speaker 2
    0:27:44

    I have been a pessimist. I would put myself right in the middle ground now of pessimism and optimism. Because I’m watching Donald Trump’s brain cook in front of the American people. Like, Biden, you know, being slow and, you know, with Alzheimer’s, which I don’t think he has. But regardless, that’s kind of cooked into the American people perception already.
  • Speaker 2
    0:28:04

    So all he can do, I think, with the exception of a trip down Air Force One, is like improve that position. Right? He improved it at the state of the union. You don’t hear a lot of attacks on his mental state since Right.
  • Speaker 1
    0:28:16

    People are kind of like, oh, okay. Yeah.
  • Speaker 2
    0:28:18

    Donald Trump has a long way to go down. And I think he’s determined. You had I forget what was you had on your podcast. Was it David From? That just said he has been determined to make this election all about himself.
  • Speaker 2
    0:28:30

    Yes.
  • Speaker 5
    0:28:30

    And that is gonna damage him.
  • Speaker 2
    0:28:30

    So I think the state of the Haley voter You know, the Kenzinger in Texas voter is, you know, we’ll support, obviously, Joe Biden. I still think a good significant part of that Haley voter does go to Joe Biden. Not happily. And I take a little issue with when, you know, we argue about should there be, like, I I’m glad no labels is not on the ticket. But I think there are certain voters and not a voter like me and not a voter like you that we do need to give permission to either abstain from the presidential line or vote third party because it’s not everybody.
  • Speaker 1
    0:29:07

    This is why when we did Republican voters against Trump, in twenty twenty, we called it Republican voters against Trump, not Republican for
  • Speaker 2
    0:29:12

    Yeah.
  • Speaker 1
    0:29:12

    Because I, you know, I was like, the people that were in charge of it, me and Sarah and others and, like, Murphy, we were all providing, but we were like, look, some of the people that that we can appeal to just won’t be able to get there.
  • Speaker 2
    0:29:22

    That’s right.
  • Speaker 5
    0:29:23

    And and
  • Speaker 1
    0:29:23

    it’s better to move them off than to do nothing.
  • Speaker 5
    0:29:25

    And I
  • Speaker 1
    0:29:26

    I totally agree with that. Yeah. Yeah.
  • Speaker 2
    0:29:27

    And I think and I think the best thing is to make the case. Like, look, you do have two choices. Again, like I said, it’s somebody I don’t agree with all their policies or pure evil. I’m gonna go with the policies guy.
  • Speaker 1
    0:29:37

    Right.
  • Speaker 5
    0:29:37

    But
  • Speaker 2
    0:29:37

    if there’s somebody that just can’t, you know, whether it’s abortion, whether it’s whatever the issue is, they can’t go to Biden, giving them permission and saying, look, your country did not present you choices that you like. It is your right to skip that line. That’s at least half a win for us. And I think that’s gonna be important as long as we’re not giving people an excuse to not vote for Biden.
  • Speaker 1
    0:29:56

    I don’t wanna presume, but you are preferring all red over cruise also in that race.
  • Speaker 2
    0:30:01

    Oh, shit, dude. I I would rather jump in a pile of lava than vote for Ted Cruz.
  • Speaker 1
    0:30:07

    Okay. I
  • Speaker 2
    0:30:07

    would rather be nude on television, like, in a very embarrassing, sought what I then vote for Ted Cruz. I don’t know.
  • Speaker 1
    0:30:14

    That might get you some slides. Into your DMs.
  • Speaker 5
    0:30:16

    I know you’re
  • Speaker 1
    0:30:17

    still newly wed, but, you know, maybe. I hear you though. Okay. So let’s give Colin all read some advice together then because you’re there. Yeah.
  • Speaker 1
    0:30:23

    I had all all red on before he even announced a long time ago. He had George Bush in his district. I think he might be a Colin Red voter. I was like, if you asked him for his vote and he’s like, no. I don’t I don’t wanna put him to that place.
  • Speaker 1
    0:30:33

    But I was like, Yeah. There are people out there that are pretty conservative that he could get because Ted Cruz has gone so far off the defense. Yeah. But he’s got a signal. He’s gotta give him a signal.
  • Speaker 1
    0:30:42

    He was a good moderate congressman. He worked across the aisle, etcetera. I performatively speaking. I’d like to see some performative efforts to reach out. And that part, I feel like he’s been a little bit missing from his campaign.
  • Speaker 1
    0:30:54

    That’d be my one critique, but I don’t know. What what kind of advice would you have if Colin already called you about about winning
  • Speaker 2
    0:31:00

    It would be the same I’d probably give to the Biden team right now, which is, you know, there should be no Republican on the sideline that says they haven’t been contacted by you. Right. Chris Christie. Unless something changed still hasn’t been contacted by the Biden team. I got contacted by somebody at the White House saying, Hey, we’d love to be in I’m like, great.
  • Speaker 2
    0:31:18

    Let me know. Heard nothing again. Right?
  • Speaker 1
    0:31:20

    Right.
  • Speaker 2
    0:31:20

    Like, it’s fine. And my ego doesn’t need that. That’s the same advice I would give to Colin. He’s reached out to me, and he and I are friends anyway. So I give him credit Jonathan Last, yeah, reach out to the bushes.
  • Speaker 2
    0:31:31

    You know, bush will stay on the sideline regardless, probably. But he can signal things quietly And the other thing I’d give on a messaging is, sorry, you gotta be somewhat tough on immigration. This is a ninety percent issue, by the way. Be somewhat tough on immigration. Be so much.
  • Speaker 1
    0:31:45

    Just do with Wazi did at least.
  • Speaker 2
    0:31:47

    Yeah. Do what Swazi did. And then b a, you know, be a little, a little giving on gun You don’t have to be be a huge, like, gun nut, but just kind of like understanding the importance of concealed carry, stuff like that for Texas. And I think he has a shot to win, at least a shot, particularly depends what happens on the national side, but certainly a shot to really embarrassed Ted cruise because Ted Cruz deserves every ounce of embarrassment he gets. Yeah.
  • Speaker 1
    0:32:11

    That’s right. Town’s fuzzy for people. Those that ran a special election in New York and really kind of focused on crime and immigration and led with It was a strategy to talk about crime and immigration. It wasn’t it wasn’t going far right, really, but it was just like, look, we need to deal with these threats in New York. Maybe crime isn’t so much at that in Texas, maybe a little bit, but immigration really is.
  • Speaker 1
    0:32:29

    Right? And then, like, lead with your chin a little bit. And you can maybe distance from from some people on the left on that.
  • Speaker 2
    0:32:35

    And can I say too? Like, to the people that, like, and I hear them that say, well, you’re just basically asking us to become Republicans? No.
  • Speaker 1
    0:32:42

    I’m not.
  • Speaker 2
    0:32:43

    Uh-uh. All we’re asking is that you listen to what the American people are saying. And actually reflect that and get elected. That’s what democracy is. Like, parties were never meant to be in this static position that could never move.
  • Speaker 2
    0:32:57

    And as the American people move, they just moved in and out of parties. Party are supposed to chase voters. Right? That’s like the general nature of a party system.
  • Speaker 1
    0:33:05

    Exactly. I wrote the article about Adam Kinzinger a long time ago about the red dog Democrats. I don’t know if he’s accepted it, but people can go find it. We’ll put it in the show notes. But in this article, I was like, there are A lot of progressive policies that Red Dog Democrats and the Dallas suburbs don’t care about.
  • Speaker 1
    0:33:19

    Marijuana legalization, raising the minimum wage, infrastructure spending, universal pre k, environmental conservation. I I I I’m going down and down criminal justice. Right? They’re a bunch. I dream act.
  • Speaker 1
    0:33:29

    Right? There are a bunch of stuff. A bunch of progressive priorities you can do. It’s just, you know, on a few things. You gotta
  • Speaker 2
    0:33:34

    you gotta
  • Speaker 1
    0:33:34

    try to put an olive branch. Right. Okay. We’re running out of time. I wanna do a quick RFP, and then we do we do need to talk about Donald Trump smell.
  • Speaker 1
    0:33:41

    I wanna listen to the New York. I think she was running the New York ballot access operation for RFP really
  • Speaker 6
    0:33:47

    things, I guess, will change over time because you do have to only pick one candidate at the end of the day. But the Kennedy voter and the Trump voter the enemy our mutual enemy is Biden. Since Biden is counting on us with Bobby in the mix, My my thought is for the Republicans. See, Bobby, right now, he’s pulling from both sides. Right now, he’s actually pulling a little bit more from which explains why the DNC is kind of ganging up on him.
  • Speaker 6
    0:34:14

    They have a special committee to go after independent candidates. Yeah. They say independent candidates, non affiliated candies, it really means Bobby, because Bobby is the only third party that anybody’s taking seriously. So they developed a committee just to go after him and to get him off of the ballot. In any way, they can especially, it seems as though they’re going after the battleground states more than the deep blue states.
  • Speaker 6
    0:34:35

    Bobby’s moving the blues on his own. If the Republicans accept I know.
  • Speaker 1
    0:34:40

    Okay. Alright. Alright. We well, I’ve I can’t listen to this lady anymore, but she she goes on to say that part of the strategy, which I think is insane, is that Bobby wins some blue states, and that sends the the election to the house this is probably not gonna happen, but it was really they are saying the quiet part out loud about who where they think things are on this. You know, some of these voters, particularly some of the types of people we’re talking about who are more conservative, instinctually, more low info voters that paying this close attention.
  • Speaker 1
    0:35:09

    They aren’t listening to the Secret Podcast. Like, some of them are f k might seem like an appealing off ramp. Like, oh, he’s not. So what what’s your take on the the r case out of things and the the nature of the threat there.
  • Speaker 2
    0:35:19

    First off, to that lady, I don’t know. I forgot her name, but, like, thank you for telling the truth probably because You know? We need that. Right? Tell the truth.
  • Speaker 2
    0:35:27

    Yeah. You know, it’s just what they found is that there is an audience of conspiracy nuts in Maga that will fund their campaign. As I’ve said, the campaign’s been hijacked by Maga, and I think probably voluntarily because it’s it’s audience capture. You know this this risk. In in media, it’s like, and in politics, it’s okay.
  • Speaker 2
    0:35:46

    Well, here’s our donor base. So now we need to feed the donor base and then our donor becomes more like what we’ve been feeding, and it’s this kind of vicious circle. He’s been feeding conspiracies, which now is naturally found on the right. It used to be found on the left. You know, the horseshoe theory has now officially happened.
  • Speaker 2
    0:36:01

    They’ve met. And so I look at it and I say, he he’s nuts. I think the bigger risk is certainly to Joe Biden with Kennedy because Kennedy, of course, the name is is a scion in Democratic politics, But I think Democrats are doing the right thing by continuing to to talk about him and ridicule him because I think their biggest threat is that low information voter, as you mentioned, that doesn’t like Joe Biden that thinks Kennedy is Kennedy, and instead needs to see that he’s basically Donald Trump. Now, he’s not gonna pull much from Trump because People that love trouble.
  • Speaker 1
    0:36:35

    He’s like Donald Trump that believes in climate change.
  • Speaker 2
    0:36:37

    Yeah. And so if you want Donald Trump vote for Trump, if you don’t want him, then Kennedy should be off the table. And I think as the election gets closer, that’ll become more obvious. I don’t think he’s gonna have the poll of a, of a Ross Perot, but at the same time, what? One or two percent can make a difference this year?
  • Speaker 2
    0:36:53

    Unfortunately.
  • Speaker 1
    0:36:54

    Yeah. Big time. Alright. So you’ve been the one person brave enough not just to speak out about January six and to get those death threats. But to also speak out about Donald Trump’s smell.
  • Speaker 1
    0:37:03

    One thing I’ve noticed, and we we’re trying to get at the bottom of what the smell is. I’ve noticed his tint, his face tint has changed. Like, it was It was a pure orange mango for a while that moved to, like, a burnt sienna. Yeah. Lately, it’s kind of, like, it’s like a pine tar.
  • Speaker 1
    0:37:18

    Yeah. I mean, it’s it’s getting very dark. It’s like you can’t imagine that as helping the smell. So give us tell us a little bit about about what you think that was is happening there?
  • Speaker 2
    0:37:27

    Well, it’s like, it’s old man in shame. I mean, it’s like, you know, what it’s not I don’t know if it’s diaper, if it’s, like, just on this.
  • Speaker 1
    0:37:35

    You don’t think it’s a face whatever he’s Could
  • Speaker 2
    0:37:37

    be the face. Could be the sweat.
  • Speaker 1
    0:37:38

    The sweat mix with that?
  • Speaker 2
    0:37:40

    The sweat. Here’s the important thing about this, Tim, is Maga sees Donald Trump. Now we’ve gotta put ourselves in this mind for a second as almost a non human entity, and I’m serious about
  • Speaker 1
    0:37:51

    this.
  • Speaker 2
    0:37:51

    Like, Everything about him is almost non human. Like, honestly, if they saw him sitting on the toilet, it would shatter their image of him. I don’t mean to say that to be fun. Did you
  • Speaker 1
    0:38:00

    see the clips ad they did of him or like Donald Trump is the blocking the sun. It is so weird to put that in the show notes too. I wanted to just play the audio, but you can’t really get it without looking at it. It’s so fucking weird.
  • Speaker 2
    0:38:10

    It’s like, it’s nuts, but, like, that’s where they’re at.
  • Speaker 5
    0:38:15

    So I think there is
  • Speaker 2
    0:38:15

    benefit in humiliating him both as just a human with failings, which we all are. And I don’t say that to be, but like he’s trying to put himself above that, but also the whiniest weakest. I mean, my god, the guy was president of the United States, and somehow the Annette Democratic Party was able to pull over on him the greatest steal of an election in American history. He’s that week that he allowed
  • Speaker 5
    0:38:43

    it to happen, and he just
  • Speaker 2
    0:38:43

    winds, and he complains, and he Bulwark aches. And Tim, when you and I were junior Republican babies, what we loved about the Republican Party was its toughness It’s like self reliant.
  • Speaker 1
    0:38:56

    From your bootstraps.
  • Speaker 2
    0:38:57

    Yeah. He has turned the Republican party into a bunch of whiny licking their wounds like people, and we have to call that out. Because nobody wants to be that, and Donald Trump needs to be painted as I think. That’s what country first is gonna spend some time doing.
  • Speaker 1
    0:39:14

    Whiny and smelly
  • Speaker 5
    0:39:16

    Mhmm.
  • Speaker 1
    0:39:16

    And, like, obese and not athletic and look at him on the golf cart. It just it’s a disgusting. He’s a disgusting figure.
  • Speaker 2
    0:39:23

    And he’s scared. He’s a scared person right now. You could just tell he’s fright, like a little kitty cat. He’s scared.
  • Speaker 1
    0:39:28

    Like, when do you ever see that Vemajun with the with the eagle? When the eagle goes to bite him, he’s like, I love that one. Love it.
  • Speaker 2
    0:39:35

    How do you do?
  • Speaker 1
    0:39:36

    Okay. Adam Kenzinger. I man, I just appreciate you so much. You’re a great American. You’ll be back on the podcast too.
  • Speaker 1
    0:39:43

    Country first. Go ahead check out his organization country first. We’ll be back here tomorrow with another one of my favorite people. So we’ll see y’all then. Peace.
  • Speaker 5
    0:39:51

    This ain’t Texas. There ain’t no holding. Hey. So they are caught down, down, down, down, down. A pack of Lexus and throw your keys up.
  • Speaker 5
    0:40:04

    Right. Stick around, And now they damned if I can’t slow dance with you. Come close. I’m sugar on me, honey too. It’s a real live again.
  • Speaker 5
    0:40:15

    A real live hold down. Don’t be a bitch, come take
  • Speaker 7
    0:40:17

    it to the floor now.
  • Speaker 5
    0:40:20

    There’s a tornado. We’re surviving. A break up is this week’s redemption lesson time in one step to the right. We headed to a dive bar. We always call it nice.
  • Speaker 5
    0:40:46

    Oh, run me to the left. It’s been me in the middle boy. I can’t read to my This ain’t Texas. There ain’t no holding. Hey.
  • Speaker 5
    0:40:59

    They are cars down. Fuck your glasses. Oh, all your keys are stick around, And now, big Dan, if I can’t hold hands with you. Come on me, honey too. It’s a real live again.
  • Speaker 5
    0:41:18

    Real live hold down. Don’t be a bitch, come second to I’ll be damned if I cannot dance with you. I’m supposed to look on me honey too. It’s a real live boogey and a real live hold down. Don’t be a
  • Speaker 7
    0:41:29

    come take it to the flow now.
  • Speaker 1
    0:41:31

    The Secret Podcast is produced by Katie Cooper with audio engineering and editing by Jason Brown.
  • Speaker 5
    0:41:41

    Bang.
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