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91 Problems, But the Base Ain’t One (with Jake Tapper)

September 23, 2023
Notes
Transcript
The Focus Group Podcast is BACK, and we’re powering all the way through the 2024 election. For part one of our two-part season premiere, we’re checking in on how Donald Trump’s legal troubles have put his campaign on steroids. CNN’s Jake Tapper joins Sarah to hear how much the voters care about Trump’s mounting indictments (spoiler: they don’t). They also discuss how the media should be covering a presidential nominee on trial, and Jake discusses his new book, All the Demons Are Here.

show notes:

https://www.hachettebookgroup.com/titles/jake-tapper/all-the-demons-are-here/9781668623435/?lens=little-brown

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors and omissions. Ironically, the transcription service has particular problems with the word “bulwark,” so you may see it mangled as “Bullard,” “Boulart,” or even “bull word.” Enjoy!
  • Speaker 1
    0:00:06

    Hello, everyone, and welcome to the group Secret Podcast. I’m Sarah Longwell, publisher of the Bulwark, and we are back. And we’re back for the rest of the twenty twenty four cycle. I’ve got so much book group content from the summer that it was hard for me to decide where to begin. The decline of Ron DeSantis, swing voters and Joe Biden, the no labels disaster.
  • Speaker 1
    0:00:27

    But I think we’d start with Republican front runner Donald Trump’s legal troubles since he’s essentially running for president in between arraignments. And if you follow this Republican primary at all, you know that Donald Trump has built up an almost insurmountable lead. You might say he has ninety one problems, but Republican voters ain’t one. Great line from my producers. The day he was indicted in Manhattan on March thirtieth, he was sitting at forty six percent in the real clear politics average of national polls, And Ron DeSantis was at thirty percent.
  • Speaker 1
    0:00:57

    As of this taping, that split is fifty seven thirteen. So for the first two episodes to kick off this season, we’ve pulled from dozens of focus groups we conducted over the summer with Republican voters to understand how they were responding Trump’s mounting legal troubles in real time. But before we get into that, I’ve got a cool surprise to kick off the season. My guest today is Jake Tapper, host of CNNs, the lead, Jake. Thanks for being on.
  • Speaker 2
    0:01:23

    If I may improve, I got ninety nine problems, but the base ain’t one.
  • Speaker 1
    0:01:28

    Oh my gosh. Right. So good.
  • Speaker 2
    0:01:30

    Right? Just okay.
  • Speaker 1
    0:01:31

    I love workshopping this stuff together. This is great.
  • Speaker 2
    0:01:34

    Yeah. No. If we all work better with editor, That’s
  • Speaker 3
    0:01:36

    right.
  • Speaker 2
    0:01:36

    Of course.
  • Speaker 3
    0:01:37

    And,
  • Speaker 1
    0:01:37

    and, and, actually, how the tables have turned? I get to interview you for once, which is nice. Usually, I’m just, like, in jeans on your show, talking politics,
  • Speaker 2
    0:01:46

    You love it. I you I would have you on my show every day if I could.
  • Speaker 1
    0:01:49

    Oh, that’s so nice of you.
  • Speaker 2
    0:01:50

    I think what you do is so interesting and and so well done.
  • Speaker 1
    0:01:52

    Well, I appreciate that. But let’s talk about your book. To start because you’ve got a new book. All the demons are here. And my first question is the most pedestrian question anyone’s ever asked you.
  • Speaker 1
    0:02:03

    But can you just tell me how you write a book.
  • Speaker 2
    0:02:06

    All the demons are here. A thriller that takes place in nineteen seventy seven. One of the characters is on Eve knievel’s pit crew. The other one is working for a DC Tableoid, but you wanna know how I have time to write books.
  • Speaker 1
    0:02:18

    I do genuinely wanna know how you have died to write these books.
  • Speaker 2
    0:02:21

    So the two parts of the answer are one, I am very into structure. So I conceive of the plot. I adhere to the three arc structure. I outline it. I’m an architect not a gardener.
  • Speaker 2
    0:02:34

    George r Martin of Fire and Ice and Game of Thrones, he says that writers are either architects or gardeners. I’m an architect. I outline it all. And then The second part is I divvy it all up into chapters, and then I write at least fifteen minutes a day, And because I’ve deviated it up into chapters, I go to chapter five, and I know what my assignment is. I know what I have to do, what the characters have to do, in that chapter, fifteen minutes a day, anybody can find fifteen minutes a day no matter how busy you are.
  • Speaker 2
    0:03:04

    Yeah. You gotta eat. Right? And, you know, at the end of the week, if that’s all you did, that’s an hour forty five minutes. That’s three or four pages.
  • Speaker 2
    0:03:13

    Something. It adds up.
  • Speaker 1
    0:03:14

    You are banging out best selling thrillers on fifteen minutes a day.
  • Speaker 2
    0:03:18

    Well, I mean, it ends up being a lot more than fifteen minutes a day.
  • Speaker 1
    0:03:21

    I would think.
  • Speaker 2
    0:03:22

    But I’m just saying, like, that kind of discipline is what it’s about. Yeah. It’s like, oh, you know, if if you exercise for twenty minutes a day, you end up exercising for more than twenty minutes a day. But if you make that your minimum, it’s more a reflection of the the dedication and the discipline.
  • Speaker 1
    0:03:38

    Yeah. I’ve heard that about exercise. So listen, this is your third thriller and this one’s like god at all. It’s like seventies pop culture, politics, a murder plot, a popular entertainer that runs for president, which sounds a little bit familiar.
  • Speaker 2
    0:03:52

    Right. Yeah.
  • Speaker 1
    0:03:53

    I read political fiction as a form of escapism. Do you write it because the current reality of politics is hard or you just always wanted to write political fiction?
  • Speaker 2
    0:04:02

    Well, I always wanted to write fiction. And because I know about politics from covering it, and I know about pop culture from enjoying it, I find those two topics that I play with a lot. I end up writing a lot because it’s escapism, and that’s fun for me. But then I also end up writing a lot about what’s going on today. You know, they say history doesn’t repeat itself, but it rhymes.
  • Speaker 2
    0:04:25

    So the first book takes place in the fifties. That’s the hellfire club. And it’s about the Joe McCarthy era, but, obviously, there’s a lot of resonance about the Joe McCarthy era. And in fact, there’s direct lineage. Joe McCarthy’s protege was Roy Cohen, Roy Cohen’s protege was Donald Trump.
  • Speaker 2
    0:04:40

    I mean, that that’s not a theory that’s not snark, that’s just history. The second book in the series is The Devil May Dance. That takes place in Hollywood. That’s about the rat pack. And a lot of that’s just about Hollywood and sexism and Elron Hubbard, you know, a lot of stuff that’s still going on today.
  • Speaker 2
    0:05:00

    And then this third book, yeah, there’s an entertainer that runs for president and evil can evil has a lot of the trumpian DNA. I mean, he was this showman, this salesman, this guy who shot from the hip and A lot of people found him really appealing. A lot of people didn’t even understand remotely what those people found appealing about him, but he was a celebrity the cover of sports illustrated Rolling Stone, etcetera. And then the other plot in the book is that so that’s Ike. He’s an AWOL Marine.
  • Speaker 2
    0:05:29

    Very disillusioned about where the country is, which is also resonant to today. You know, in the late seventies, you have Watergate, you have Vietnam, And the other character is Lucy, and she’s an aspiring journalist. She loves warships, Bulwark and Bernstein, and she gets hired by a Murdoch esque editor starting a tabloid in DC, and that is a lot about Rupert Murdoch. So, nineteen seventy seven was the summer of Sam. So that’s the year that Tavoy journalism really became a big deal in the US.
  • Speaker 2
    0:05:58

    It was huge in in England already, but it wasn’t hugely successful in the US, but that’s when the national enquirer and the star and the Daily News and the New York Post etcetera really became huge and had a big effect on American culture.
  • Speaker 1
    0:06:12

    This character of Lucy is pretty interesting, but because I saw you say somewhere that it was hard for you to write a girl.
  • Speaker 2
    0:06:18

    Well, I it’s a lot easier for me to write a boy.
  • Speaker 1
    0:06:21

    Yeah.
  • Speaker 2
    0:06:22

    But I had a a woman editor
  • Speaker 1
    0:06:24

    That’s what I had. Yeah.
  • Speaker 2
    0:06:25

    And she helped me, you know, adding things that would never occur to me like a line about wearing cute boots. That’s a that’s a phrase that’s never come out of my house, cute boots. But Do
  • Speaker 1
    0:06:36

    you know what? Me neither
  • Speaker 2
    0:06:38

    me neither.
  • Speaker 1
    0:06:38

    But But
  • Speaker 2
    0:06:39

    you know what I mean?
  • Speaker 1
    0:06:40

    I do know what you mean, but it still seemed like that Lucy character. It seemed a lot like you you are not like you exactly, but like the young journalists seem like that was something that would be easy.
  • Speaker 2
    0:06:49

    Well, that part was easy. Yes. So Lucy is the most of all the martyr family, and the the book is about this one family. Charlie and Margaret are the parents. They’re the main characters in the first two books.
  • Speaker 2
    0:06:58

    And I can lucy are the kids, and they’re in their twenties, and they’re the main characters in this third book. Of all the martyrs, I am the most like Lucy. I mean, you know, as a journalist. And I gave her all my most annoying habits. Yeah, the habits that Reporters have of correcting people when they misuse a word or they’re using a frost poem incorrectly or misunderstanding a Shakespeare quote, all that stuff.
  • Speaker 2
    0:07:22

    I gave to her.
  • Speaker 1
    0:07:23

    Telling them how to make their rap joke a little bit funnier. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
  • Speaker 2
    0:07:27

    That was just participating in the workshop.
  • Speaker 4
    0:07:29

    Yeah. You
  • Speaker 2
    0:07:29

    can’t tell me that’s not better.
  • Speaker 1
    0:07:31

    No. It’s better. It’s better.
  • Speaker 2
    0:07:33

    I mean, the idea wasn’t mine. The idea was genius. So, anyway, but my point is just we all do better with editors. So I had Christina is my editor because there the the chapters alternate between Ike and Lucy, in first person. And so, you know, I I just wanted to make each or seem as though they were written by different characters, and that one was written by a twenty two year old woman, and one was written by a twenty year old a wall marine.
  • Speaker 2
    0:07:56

    You know, in the same way, like, Ike is a motorcycle expert. I’ve never driven a motorcycle in my life. And, but I needed to make those motorcycle scenes, and there are a lot of them seem real, and I hired a a motorcycle writer named Mark Gardner to go over my motorcycle scenes to make sure that it sounded like I knew what he was talking about. And he helped me with that too. So we, you know, we all need editors.
  • Speaker 2
    0:08:18

    And, you know, so Christina did that with making Lucy seem more like a woman, and Marked that with making, I seem like he knew a a piston from a kickstand.
  • Speaker 1
    0:08:29

    So this book is is is already doing Awesome. And you what? You’ve got a fourth one coming out. Like, you’re already working on a fourth one.
  • Speaker 2
    0:08:35

    I need to figure out what I wanna do next. There’s a fourth one I’m working on. But there are also a couple non fiction ideas that appeal to me. And I, you know, I wrote that non fiction book the outpost about twelve years ago about, Afghanistan.
  • Speaker 1
    0:08:48

    I’ll post a we’re good.
  • Speaker 2
    0:08:50

    And the thank you. And there are a few military stories that I’ve learned about in the last year or two that I’m feeling kind of itchy to write about just because they’re so compelling and interesting and about the world we’re in now. I don’t know what I’m gonna do. This is just me talking, but I might put fiction on hold for a bit and go back to non fiction for a little bit.
  • Speaker 1
    0:09:09

    Well, I gotta tell you, Hellfire club is right behind me when I do my TV hits from home.
  • Speaker 3
    0:09:14

    Oh, is
  • Speaker 2
    0:09:14

    that right? It’s like on
  • Speaker 1
    0:09:15

    my bookshelf. Yes. So I look forward to putting this one on my bookshelf and having a whole set in my background. Awesome.
  • Speaker 2
    0:09:22

    Awesome.
  • Speaker 1
    0:09:22

    Alright. So I’m gonna switch gears here.
  • Speaker 2
    0:09:25

    Yes. Let’s do it.
  • Speaker 1
    0:09:26

    And, I wanna start by just throwing a statistic at you and our listeners. So we’ve been asking two time, Trump voters all summer, how the indictments made them feel about Trump.
  • Speaker 2
    0:09:36

    You sent me the some of the stuff, and it’s fascinating.
  • Speaker 1
    0:09:38

    I can’t wait to hear what what you think about it. But so We talked to over a hundred people, just over a hundred people. Forty four people supported Trump more as a result of the indictments, forty eight neutral didn’t change how they felt about him. Only eight supported him less. And I think that that to me was an answer to an ongoing question that lots of us have had sort of kicking around on these pundit tables of, well, won’t the indictments make people potentially support him less?
  • Speaker 1
    0:10:05

    And the answer quickly revealed itself to be definitely not. And so I wanna play a sample of this more camp, how they sounded, And almost all of these people are from a group that we did just the day after the Manhattan indictment. So the very first one where Trump was indicted for the payoff to Stormy Daniels And the vibe shift back to Trump was very abrupt and obvious. Let’s listen.
  • Speaker 5
    0:10:28

    Almost like, as soon as I heard the news, I felt like I’m supporting him even more just for the fact that I don’t like what happening. And for political persecution of someone, it could be any of us if they can do it to trump where he can defend himself. I can only imagine how it would be if it would just a normal person.
  • Speaker 6
    0:10:55

    Trump being the only candidate and ex president who actually really cared about people without caring so much about power. You can’t trust republicans, you can’t trust Democrats. Trump was the only one you can trust. That’s why Democrats are going crazy trying to get them and Republicans aren’t doing enough to try and help.
  • Speaker 7
    0:11:14

    Yep.
  • Speaker 3
    0:11:14

    You know, if somebody’s gonna take a stance against something, you’re not always gonna be the one that, that’s gonna be popular. But it is definitely making me more wanting to support than ever before, but I because I think he’s the right guy to to have the job.
  • Speaker 5
    0:11:28

    Coming from another country where people get assassinated for not agreeing with the people who are in power. It’s really scary that America’s going that way. And so I feel like I’ve never donated to a party but I feel like I might just, like, it’s the only thing I can do. Yeah. It’s making me more of a a fan.
  • Speaker 6
    0:11:58

    And as far as a mugshot or something, he’s gonna market the hell out of that. And every one of us are gonna buy those shirts And when we’re a group form, we’re gonna be aware of them.
  • Speaker 2
    0:12:07

    Who here trusts
  • Speaker 8
    0:12:08

    the DA that’s investigating Trump Albinbrack?
  • Speaker 7
    0:12:13

    How could we? He’s a democrat.
  • Speaker 1
    0:12:17

    Okay. So this is probably the earliest, the best example of what I call the rally ran Trump fact. I had seen it also during the impeachments from Republican voters. But I wanna talk just for one second that I want you to react. This was the first group in a long time.
  • Speaker 1
    0:12:32

    In which when we did a head to head from Trump to DeSantis, everybody went for Trump. And so for me, this was like a key turning point up until that point. From basically the November twenty twenty two elections until this point, the groups had been breaking forty four twenty six for DeSantis. So more than half the time, we were getting more DeSantis people. But after the indictment, that number has been sixty four for Trump.
  • Speaker 1
    0:12:58

    Twenty five for DeSantis. And I don’t wanna treat the focus groups right polling, but I do wanna emphasize how dramatic and clear this shift was. Were you surprised that it went this way. Did you think the indictments were gonna have an impact on voters?
  • Speaker 2
    0:13:12

    No. I did not. Not on two time Trump voters. I do wonder if it will be different at all when evidence is presented at some of the more serious cases by which I am not including Alan Bragg’s case. And you’ll notice of the cases that were cited, the only one that was specifically cited was the Alvin Bragg case.
  • Speaker 2
    0:13:39

    Which gives you an idea of how much of a gift that case, its relative weakness, at least according to legal experts, it’s relative lack of importance in the scheme of things compared to classified documents in January six. And and it just really gives you an idea of why so many Democrats were pulling their hair and ringing teeth about Alvin Brad going first because it really made it seem as though, look, if the narrative is they’re out to get me, And then immediately somebody comes over and, like, hits you without provocation or with a relatively silly provocation. Right. It only bolsters your case. It is interesting.
  • Speaker 2
    0:14:24

    I mean, some of the people, at least one gentleman, what he said is just Like, word for word, the kind of thing you hear from Trump or his son or is staunchest defenders. Like, you can’t trust anybody. You can’t trust the Democrats. You can’t trust the Republicans. No one cares about us except Donald Trump.
  • Speaker 2
    0:14:48

    Like, a really unreasonable position. Let’s pause it for the sake of argument that supporting Donald Trump is in the mainstream and acceptable, and you can understand why people do it just for the sake of this argument. Sure. To say he is the only human being in the world that cares about the American people, and you can’t trust any other politician in America. Except for him.
  • Speaker 2
    0:15:15

    That is not political allegiance. That is something else. And I don’t know how you would describe it. I’m not a social scientist, but that is beyond allegiance to that is something more socio psychological.
  • Speaker 1
    0:15:30

    Yeah. But it’s also kind of nihilism, right? A kind of nihilism that Donald Trump has really pumped into the ecosystem and a lot of sort of right wing media has helped to amplify. I mean, this is Tucker Carlson does this with the you cannot trust them. I am the only one you can trust.
  • Speaker 1
    0:15:44

    I am the only person. And I think this is like from Trump and then pervasive in right wing media. Right. But to me, what was also very just crazy about how the tables turned that we were watching happen in real time was it was so clear that a lot of it was related to. It was like when they went into Mar a Lago, looking for the documents.
  • Speaker 1
    0:16:04

    Right? People ever as a raid, and then the indictments as they racked up, there’s a lot of conversations about the media’s responsibility in this. Right? And when I was doing my punting at the time, I was like, one of the things that Donald Trump is gonna be able to do because of the indictments, not that they shouldn’t have been brought, But he is able to become a central player and the rest of the candidates who are defending him become these bit players in his central drama. He’s dominating the air.
  • Speaker 1
    0:16:30

    And you see a lot of criticism of the media being like, well, why are you talking about him all the time? Like, why is Caitlyn Collins interviewing him on a CNN town hall? Why is Kristen Welker kicking off her meet the press debut with Donald Trump? And I don’t know the answer. Like, there is clear that amplification of Trump’s legal troubles and everything else help him.
  • Speaker 2
    0:16:48

    Oh, can I can I still
  • Speaker 1
    0:16:49

    Yeah? What? Tell me.
  • Speaker 2
    0:16:51

    In two thousand fifteen, I started doing state of the union, the Sunday show.
  • Speaker 1
    0:16:56

    Yep.
  • Speaker 2
    0:16:56

    I now share it with Anna, but at the time, it was just me. And I wanted for my first one to do something big and splashy. Right? That’s what Kristen did for her first meet the press. You wanna do something big.
  • Speaker 2
    0:17:08

    We pitched to hilary Clinton, Marco Rubio, and Jed Bush. Independently. Let me do my entire show about you. Not just a sit down about the issues of the day, but about who you are, your whole life, everything about you that got you to this day. So for Jet Bush, like, how did you meet Colombia?
  • Speaker 2
    0:17:31

    Like, what were you doing in Mexico? For for Marco Rubio, your parents’ trip from Cuba. Your time is Florida speaker of the house. For Hillary Clinton everything, tell us about, like, working in Texas, you know, to get George McGovern elected. Are there gonna be a couple questions you don’t like here and there?
  • Speaker 2
    0:17:48

    Sure. Of course. But let’s just do it. All three turned it down. Okay.
  • Speaker 2
    0:17:53

    I mean, that’s fine. But you know who didn’t turn it down? I mean, I didn’t do a a big biographical thing, but I sat down with Donald Trump the next week. I the first week, I ended up doing Bill Clinton for some Clinton global initiative thing or whatever. But then, like, the next week, we did a pre tape with Donald Trump.
  • Speaker 2
    0:18:10

    We ended up not airing it because it was the horrible, church shooting in South Sarah Longwell. So we bumped in another week. But I did a long interview with him. I challenged him on I wore a trump time. It was made in China.
  • Speaker 2
    0:18:22

    I did a bunch of stuff. My only point is all the complaints I’m hearing today I heard in two thousand fifteen and two thousand sixteen. You’re friends with Tim Miller. Right? Tim would yell at me and I would argue with him all the time.
  • Speaker 2
    0:18:37

    I would say put Jeb on the show. Like, what do you want me to do? Like, I have a show to bear. So we are constantly trying to get other candidates. First of all, I haven’t interviewed Donald Trump since two thousand sixteen.
  • Speaker 2
    0:18:52

    When I pressed him on whether his going after judge Curiel for not being able to do his job because he was a Mexican, even though he’s from Indiana. Isn’t that the definition of racism? That was the last time I’ve been able to interview Donald Trump. So I can’t be faulted for interviewing him too often, but I’m not gonna name names, but, like, it’s not as though all of the other candidates with the exceptions of Aiza Hutchenson and Chris Christie and, you know, will herd are really making themselves available outside the Fox News bubble. Yep.
  • Speaker 2
    0:19:23

    They’re number. Yep. We’re not coming at them with shivs, like we’re a news organization. You know what I mean? Like, I get not going on MSNBC, but, like, why aren’t you on ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, like, NPR, like, There’s lots of media out there, but they are focused on exclusively conservative media.
  • Speaker 2
    0:19:42

    Yeah. You gotta go there, of course. That’s not where all the Republican voters are. You know that. Now it’s definitely where some of the focus group people are.
  • Speaker 1
    0:19:49

    Yeah.
  • Speaker 2
    0:19:49

    A hundred percent. You can tell which ones. The ones that only repeat the talking points, but that’s not all of them.
  • Speaker 1
    0:19:54

    Yeah. I’m really glad you made this point about, like, it’s also who says yes. This is something I’ve said. Like, Ron DeSantis made a fatal error for himself. He decided to just not talk to people he didn’t wanna talk to.
  • Speaker 1
    0:20:04

    And frankly, one of the things that that fails to do is he’s not very good at answering questions. Right? He’s not good at at answering tough questions. And so when like the national spotlight came for him, he wasn’t really ready for it. He didn’t know how to do it.
  • Speaker 1
    0:20:15

    It’s a huge mistake.
  • Speaker 2
    0:20:16

    In two thousand twelve, I was, in the White House press corps covering Obama. He had that first debate with Romney, you might remember Romney won decisively. I thought. And I remember thinking that Obama had not given an interview to a tough interviewer in a year. It had all been, like, you know, cozy, friendly interviewers.
  • Speaker 2
    0:20:38

    And that’s just problematic. Yeah. No. I did gate to do an interview with DeSantis a few months ago. And I thought it was gonna be, like, the kickoff of, like, okay.
  • Speaker 2
    0:20:48

    We prove that, like, I can do, like, a respectful sit down and, you know, let’s just have a meaningful exchange if here’s, like, six questions, whatever. I thought it was gonna be the beginning of, like, a ton of interviews. Like, he was gonna change his strategy and this and that, but we haven’t been able to get him back. But at least he did that interview. I had Nikki Haley on couple sundays ago, which was great.
  • Speaker 2
    0:21:09

    Vice president Pence does say yes too. See, but he kinda gets it also. Like, I have to say, like, he understands that there are Republicans who watch CNN
  • Speaker 1
    0:21:19

    Yeah.
  • Speaker 2
    0:21:19

    And watch, like, the networks. There are Republicans who turn on Fox and think like, This this is not news. I don’t know what this is, but, you know, there are Democrats that turn on MSNBC and say, like, okay. That’s fine. But, like, that’s
  • Speaker 1
    0:21:32

    Yeah. And not to digress too much into this, but, like, one of the things what I hear in the focus groups all the time, you’re right. Like, you can tell a Fox News watcher, but one of the main signifiers of somebody who is thinking more deeply about the issues is that they say, I also watch CNN, and I also, like, they check-in on other networks to see what different groups of people are saying because they are interested in a wide variety of viewpoints. And those are the ones that are persuadable. Like, if you’re Mike Pence, or if you’re Well, Hunter, if you’re just about any of these guys who don’t want the pure base that love Donald Trump, now I am gonna get off track and think about how DeSantis decided to just wrestle Trump for his Fox News sort of cult instead of looking at those persuadable voters that were interested in moving on To me, that was one of the big fatal errors.
  • Speaker 2
    0:22:16

    Right. But also Ron DeSantis decided to try to run to Trump’s right. Like, he’s still doing it. And I just don’t think that there’s room there. I mean
  • Speaker 1
    0:22:24

    There is not.
  • Speaker 2
    0:22:25

    Maybe he will prove me wrong. He’s making a play for evangelicals on Trump’s right. Look. Trump is soft on abortion. Look.
  • Speaker 2
    0:22:32

    Trump is soft on trans in the way that would appeal to evangelicals. And, I mean, I just don’t know that those people are movable. That they’re just with Trump.
  • Speaker 1
    0:22:41

    Yeah. Totally agree. I also agree that most things are Tim Miller’s fault. But
  • Speaker 2
    0:22:47

    was just for the record. I was not arguing that most things are Tim Miller as well.
  • Speaker 1
    0:22:52

    No. Just me. I am. So I know it’s not an indictment per se, but I wanted to run through how voters talked about the eugene Carol verdict, because I also think this is instructive. Trump was found liable for sexually abusing her, and I want you to hear how these two time trial voters reacted to that.
  • Speaker 9
    0:23:10

    They didn’t find him guilty of rape. They just found him guilty of something else. And what’s five million dollars in Trump? Did he do it? I don’t know.
  • Speaker 9
    0:23:18

    Did he live or probably? That’s just he speaks his mind and people don’t like it, and they get pissed.
  • Speaker 5
    0:23:24

    Is ridiculous. I could have been there and said he raped me. I don’t think there was enough evidence. I think they’re blaming him for everything.
  • Speaker 3
    0:23:34

    I think she was very hazy as far as, like, details go. And I think if we’re going to follow through on this type of guilty verdict, that just opens the door for everything. Right? But someone could come out tomorrow about Joe Biden and say some they gotta stick to the same standard.
  • Speaker 5
    0:23:48

    Right.
  • Speaker 7
    0:23:49

    If you see any other videos of this woman, She looks a little she’s a very strange person, and she’s a little bit, like, delusional weird. Even even that video her doing the interview with, Anderson Cooper. They’re like, come on. This really did not happen.
  • Speaker 4
    0:24:06

    You think a little bit of a a money grab on her report. A lot of time it’s passed from the events and now, but I don’t know what took so long. You know, I can imagine a lot of things, the amount of time is ridiculously involved.
  • Speaker 1
    0:24:21

    I mean, that that whole thing was so absurd. If you’ve ever been in Burgdorf, There’s no way somebody could get raped right off the main floor there. Okay. So nobody believed that Trump did this in these groups. Go ahead.
  • Speaker 1
    0:24:36

    You’re you’re gonna say something or react?
  • Speaker 2
    0:24:38

    Again, as somebody who followed this trial closely, I think that Donald Trump had actually put on a defense. He could have probably won that case. I really honestly think this. I’m just looking at this purely I’m not looking to say this didn’t happen. And I I’m not looking to deny somebody’s truth or anything like that, and obviously sexual assault and rape are serious issues.
  • Speaker 2
    0:25:01

    Purely as a legal matter. Donald Trump did not put on much of a defense. He did not testify in his own behalf. He sat for a deposition, said some ridiculous things in that deposition that definitely did not endear the jury to him. But she could not remember the month or even I believe the year when this took place.
  • Speaker 2
    0:25:23

    And there were other weaknesses in the case that I think would have made that a difficult case to prove against somebody else in a different situation if they had defended themselves. Now that’s not to say I’m associating myself with anything that was just said. But I have heard Liberal Women say that they had doubts about Eugene Carroll’s story too.
  • Speaker 1
    0:25:48

    Yeah. And here’s the thing. I included this not to necessarily litigate Eugene Carroll. It’s more that a lot of these voters, they were not following the eugene Carol thing closely at all. So they weren’t really differentiating.
  • Speaker 1
    0:25:59

    Oh, did he testify? The thing is is to me that’s interesting is that there’s something in the news that is downstream of what I would call just a voters deciding that trump’s three times divorces, multiple sexual assault allegations, just the stuff we heard. And let’s just pretend none of that’s true. It’s still on tape saying, you know, grab them by the privates and you still obviously lewd crude and disgusting. But then you see something like Lauren Bober.
  • Speaker 1
    0:26:28

    In a play, a musical. I didn’t know they’d made a music a lot of beetlejuice. I’m gonna have to see that. And she is groping a guy. He groping her.
  • Speaker 1
    0:26:36

    She gets thrown out for vaping and fighting. And it’s just to me the permissiveness of the average Republican voter now, the extent to which E. Jean Carroll barely made a ripple. That’s what I think is sort of interesting to me. And maybe it’s the credibility of her story and lots of people weren’t gonna litigate it.
  • Speaker 1
    0:26:52

    But maybe it’s also just that, like, of all of the things that people are gonna care about, like, nobody cares about whether or not Donald Trump sexually assaulted somebody because their standards on morality of ceased to exist in a Republican party.
  • Speaker 2
    0:27:05

    I do find it stunning. I am a person of faith. I’m Jewish, and I was bar mitzvah and I go to temple and my kids are bar and bought mitzvah and, my wife converted to Judaism and all that stuff. I have a friend who is an atheist, one of my best friends. And he said to me, something along the lines of.
  • Speaker 2
    0:27:27

    We had this conversation the other day before I interviewed Pence. And I almost asked Pence this, but we ran out of time. He said, I disagree with pants on everything, but you cannot tell me that that guy is not a sincere man of faith. That he does not truly believe in his faith and that he does not walk the walk, that he does not live his life according to what his faith instructs him. And conservative white evangelical Christians have an opportunity right now to vote for somebody who represents them more closely than anyone since Pat Roberts.
  • Speaker 10
    0:28:06

    Yep.
  • Speaker 2
    0:28:07

    And they are not even giving him a look. Right. They are all about Donald Trump, who nobody even really believes And he doesn’t even really pretend anymore. I mean, the two Corinthians thing is funny. But, like, beyond that, just, like, how he lives his life Remember when Mark Halpern was asking him what his favorite verse in the Bible was?
  • Speaker 1
    0:28:31

    Yeah.
  • Speaker 2
    0:28:31

    I mean, all you have to do is say Jesus wept. It’s just too hard. It’s not even my book, and I know that. It’s just remarkable to me. And the degree to which some of the most pious people in the government in terms of attacking the left, people who are not Christian, people who are secular, people who are LGBT, people who are anything other than conservative Christians.
  • Speaker 2
    0:28:59

    Conservative evangelical Christians, really, because sometimes there’s even like anti catholic bias in there at Bob Jones University and another place. Anti Mormon bias when Huckabee ran for president. Huckabee, like, used code on occasion when he was going after Romney. Anyway, My only point is the degree to which some of the most pious people in the world are living lives of just rampant infidelity is just remarkable to me. It’s stunning to me, not that it’s done, but there is, like, no accountability.
  • Speaker 2
    0:29:29

    No accountability. And
  • Speaker 1
    0:29:30

    that’s it, like, Bobert. Christy Nuum is
  • Speaker 2
    0:29:33

    Marcus Taylor Green.
  • Speaker 1
    0:29:34

    Marjorie Taylor Green is one after the other. The Romney’s retirement really underscores this. We are drowning in people who lack all conviction except when they are condemning their enemies, they do not either hold themselves to those standards or their colleagues. And what is interesting about the e g and Carol commentary from the voters is how much it seems like It just doesn’t matter about behavior anymore.
  • Speaker 2
    0:29:55

    It’s oral tribalism. Totally. All of it. And I do not understand it. I really don’t.
  • Speaker 2
    0:30:01

    Just as an American, I don’t. Yeah. And as a journalist who tries to play it straight and tries to be honest, I don’t get it. I really truly don’t. You know, I don’t get it when people on the left pretend that, you know, Hunter Biden is this business man of the year, and I don’t get it on the right when members of Congress who act as other highest Christian conservatives get caught not being that And there’s zero ramifications for them.
  • Speaker 2
    0:30:31

    Zero.
  • Speaker 1
    0:30:31

    Yeah.
  • Speaker 2
    0:30:32

    And if a journalist And journalists don’t claim anything. In terms of our private behavior, unless we’re, like, on the hypocrisy beat, If a journalist did the same thing, I’m like, we’d be hounded off the air. Yeah. Except on that one channel.
  • Speaker 1
    0:30:50

    Speaking of the psychology of all this, I just wanna go to the Mar a Lago classified documents case because as a legal matter, unlike, Eugene Carroll, the consensus tends to be that they’ve got Trump pretty much dead to rights. But I think this document’s case is really important to how Republican voters think because they take a big psychological off ramp for caring about this stuff. I want you to listen to what this sounds like, but you’ve heard it before. It’s to the tune of what about
  • Speaker 11
    0:31:15

    It frustrates me that it doesn’t seem to be like equal amount of, resources being, devoted to looking into a hundred Biden’s laptop.
  • Speaker 6
    0:31:25

    Well, you have a current president who is sit seeing all of the DOJ on a potential candidate. That’s never happened. Right.
  • Speaker 11
    0:31:31

    Right. Yeah. Unless you’re in Venezuela, or, you know, a country like that, which is kinda scary to
  • Speaker 1
    0:31:38

    fits against the law what he did, then let’s apply it equally against everybody else that had documents, Hillary Clinton, Mike Pence, Obama, Obama, regular Clinton and especially Biden. So I just feel this is just a bunch of bull just to bring him down, but, you know, they got the wrong person this time. Because he’s not gonna give in to ask what we liked about him. Other presidents that have left office have had classified documents. They were not treated the same way as Donald Trump is being treated.
  • Speaker 1
    0:32:07

    It is a two tier justice system in this country.
  • Speaker 12
    0:32:10

    It’s just nakedly partisan. And, like, to me, weaponizing the FBI against a political rival is just like beyond the pale. I never if I’d see the day where that would be something.
  • Speaker 7
    0:32:21

    Most of us are just so sick to death and have become deaf because of the constant crucifixion of Trump And this has gone on now for so many years that we just don’t even hear it anymore.
  • Speaker 13
    0:32:34

    Has anybody thought of Martha stuart when you see this going on, how she was made to be the example, you know. Nate, it doesn’t matter what you did. It’s the fact that you did it, you know,
  • Speaker 14
    0:32:44

    A jury could very well find him guilty and
  • Speaker 7
    0:32:46

    he may very well be guilty. But why
  • Speaker 8
    0:32:49

    are they going after him and not everybody else? If they’re gonna go after him, I wanna see him wear after the clintons, and I wanna see him go after Biden, and there’s been others. They think Biden kept the things in a safe place because he had him next to his corvette.
  • Speaker 2
    0:33:06

    It’s interesting when that woman used the word crucified.
  • Speaker 1
    0:33:08

    Oh, yeah. A lot of Jesus imagery associated with trump often in the focus groups. So Now that Hunter Biden has been indicted on the gun charge, I do not anticipate a bunch of the focus group participants suddenly believing that the justice system works for them. No.
  • Speaker 2
    0:33:24

    No. Now they say, well, that’s not enough. Chairman Comer’s already, like, moved the goalpost to basically until president Biden is indicted. It’s all just a smokescreen, a white wash. I mean, they just keep changing it.
  • Speaker 2
    0:33:36

    This is the problem with a news media that is not devoted to actually just trying to get the facts and the truth out regardless of who they favor This is about fear or outrage and preaching to the choir. The reason Fox ended up paying that settlement for seven hundred eighty seven point five million dollars to dominion, and they’re gonna have to pay more to other individuals and other voting systems and such. Is because that they were so swept up in trying to preach to the choir to those people who only wanted to hear lies. They feared telling the truth would cost them viewers and or money. Then for good reason, because it would’ve, because they have been not informing their viewers for so long and not providing the whole context.
  • Speaker 2
    0:34:30

    Yes. Of course. It is true that classified documents were found in vice president Pence’s house and in president Biden’s house. And I think it’s correct near the corvette. It is also true that Pence turned them over, and I think that case has been closed.
  • Speaker 2
    0:34:51

    There’s a special counsel investigating Biden and those documents. We don’t know what they’re gonna conclude, but that office is the one that alerted the National Archives And there’s been cooperation by Pence’s office, by Biden’s office, by other offices that have, you know, it does happen, but classified documents accidentally get taken and then they get returned to the national archives. But this was not that. This was classifieds documents purposefully taken by Trump who thought that they belonged to him, argued they belonged to him, and refused to turn them over for more than a year despite legal and treaties to turn them over. All of the last minute of what I just said is not included when the five does their reporting on this?
  • Speaker 2
    0:35:38

    They just say, well, you know, Pence and Biden also have this problem.
  • Speaker 1
    0:35:43

    Does that frustrate you that there’s that asymmetry where, like, you and other mainstream media outlets, you’re working really hard to bring people credible news that they can trust. And then there’s a whole other ecosystem in which they’re not trying. To do that. They don’t even really make much play about it.
  • Speaker 2
    0:35:59

    Yes. But I should also know, and I don’t want this to be misunderstood. I am not equating progressive media with Fox. Okay? I’m not or the right wing media.
  • Speaker 2
    0:36:09

    Because the right wing media, the lies about the election, the lies about the racism. I’m not saying it’s equivalent. But the progressive media that thinks that no one should ever interview a Republican or that any Republican is treasonous. And any discussion on any issue that isn’t just the Democratic party line is right wing hackery, and that sort of coverage also bothers me because it infects how people view journalists that are doing a different job than ideological media. There’s always been a place for ideological media in the United States.
  • Speaker 2
    0:36:54

    It’s in our roots, it’s in our history back to when there were newspapers, one for the federalists and for the Democrat Republicans, But it is dangerous when ideological media is presented as straight news, and the others are not telling you the truth. And a lot of it’s, by the way, entirely about commerce, not even a bad ideology. And it makes it so if I have a civil interview with any Republican or Democrat and let them talk. There are people who are conditioned to not like it, not trust it. And it’s all to me bad.
  • Speaker 2
    0:37:33

    But, yes, the Fox stuff bothers me more because, obviously, it really did a lot of damage to the country as we saw in January six.
  • Speaker 1
    0:37:42

    And continues. But speaking of January six, I wanna talk about the federal January six case. This is probably the most morally serious of all the indictments came down this summer, which meant that Republican voters did the most to tune this one out. Let’s listen.
  • Speaker 7
    0:37:56

    It’s become quite boring. You know, you hear it Okay. Another one, who cares. But that’s kind of what the Democrats and the media did for four years. I mean, every day it was something.
  • Speaker 7
    0:38:07

    To the point you just block it out.
  • Speaker 3
    0:38:11

    Take a look back at our last handful of presidents. Find me in honestly. I’ll reconnect the L. B. J.
  • Speaker 3
    0:38:19

    Kennedy, before him, etcetera, etcetera. Eisenhower Howard might have been the last honest one. And there are questions about him?
  • Speaker 15
    0:38:27

    If he was not running for president, there would be no charges. I mean, why are they bringing these charges three years later. You know? Right. If he wasn’t running, there would be nothing.
  • Speaker 15
    0:38:39

    It’s all trying to just smear him and get a bad name so he doesn’t get back into office.
  • Speaker 5
    0:38:46

    Because they can’t control him. Yeah.
  • Speaker 7
    0:38:49

    I don’t know that I actually care because it’s just another one. I mean, it’s just just another reason to create a a news cycle. It’s another reason to just make him sound like he’s the worst person on the planet. I don’t know. I just I’m actually kinda tired of it.
  • Speaker 7
    0:39:02

    I don’t know how he keeps rolling with it.
  • Speaker 1
    0:39:05

    So I think there’s a period of time where A lot of us thought that maybe the accumulated weight of the indictments would start sort of chipping away at people. But instead, When I listened to these voters, especially people, like, the last one I heard this all the time after the January six one, it was like, I’m bored. I’m tired of it. They’re all running together in my head. They can’t tell them apart.
  • Speaker 1
    0:39:27

    What do you do when, like, he’s gonna have all these cases? Like, you’re gonna have to cover the twenty twenty four cycle. And he’s gonna be in court all the time. The voters can’t really differentiate them. They just lump it together as one intense effort to get Trump and that in itself is the evidence that Trump is the one that everybody fears.
  • Speaker 2
    0:39:48

    I don’t know that any of those people are gettable for me in terms of the news broadcast I do. I mean, I don’t think any of them are looking for an objective news report about what’s going on in the world, what’s going on in the country, etcetera. My guess is that they like partisan media that tells them that Joe Biden’s awful. The cities are Democrat run, hell, infested rat holes, and I’m aware of what right wing media looks like, all that. But all I can do is explain the seriousness of the charges against Trump or the lack of seriousness in the case of the New York case.
  • Speaker 2
    0:40:28

    Trying to undermine democracy is a pretty serious thing. The evidence against Trump is pretty strong. You know, I don’t know what’s gonna happen. Obviously, everybody is innocent until found guilty, but this is serious stuff. We do make an effort to try to distinguish with graphics and with language, you know, There is the New York case.
  • Speaker 2
    0:40:48

    That’s about hush money. There’s the Atlanta case. It’s about January six, the federal case about January six. And then the classified documents case, and, you know, we have graphics and try to help people understand the difference between them. One thing I’ll note about the arguments about The January sixth case that we just heard from your focus group there, there was nothing substantive against them as opposed to When I heard substantive arguments against the Allen Bragg case, the Jean Carroll case, some of the other things, because there really isn’t much of a substantive argument against the prosecution in the January sixth case.
  • Speaker 2
    0:41:26

    You can talk about whether to be federal or state in the Fulton County case, you can talk about all sorts of things. But we all saw it happen with our own eyes pretty much. Yeah.
  • Speaker 1
    0:41:36

    And this is interesting to me to go through the indictments and even listen to different people’s rationalizations because I think they sort of form a chorus of a lot of different strains of rationalizations that I’ve heard over all of these last years, you know, it’s either that, oh, come on about the Alvin Brad case, like big deal. He paid hush money to a porn star, and then you’ve got your what about in the documents case, which is a classic sort of pivot.
  • Speaker 2
    0:42:01

    Right.
  • Speaker 1
    0:42:02

    And then you’ve got the, no, I followed the e g and Carol. And here let me tell you why she’s wrong about this, or I just think she’s a weirdo. But once you get to the one that, like, they don’t really have a comeback for, and this is January sixth, it’s it’s just like I’m tired of talking about this. I’m bored. We should move on.
  • Speaker 1
    0:42:17

    It’s over.
  • Speaker 2
    0:42:18

    The whole thing about we should move on, there is no one that talks about January six more than Donald Trump.
  • Speaker 3
    0:42:23

    That’s right. I I
  • Speaker 2
    0:42:24

    think Donald Trump talks about it more than Jack Smith. And Fony Willis, the Fulton County district attorney. Donald Trump, as far as I can tell, much of his twenty twenty four campaign is predicated on the fact that he actually won the twenty twenty election. That’s what he is running to as a sort of vindication about. I don’t hear much in terms of policy.
  • Speaker 2
    0:42:44

    I know this policies on his website, but, like, in terms of what he talks about at these events. You forgot to mention, by the way, in addition to covering all these trials and the primaries and the caucuses and the debates, we’re also gonna be covering an impeachment inquiry, which is obviously gonna lead to an impeachment proceeding. Yeah. If anybody out there thinks that speaker McCarthy is launching an impeachment inquiry that ends with Joe Biden’s name being cleared, then, I’d like to meet you.
  • Speaker 1
    0:43:12

    You got a bridge you guys can sell?
  • Speaker 2
    0:43:13

    No. Just like to have a sip of whatever you’re drinking.
  • Speaker 1
    0:43:16

    Well, you mentioned Georgia and Fulton County, and I wanna wrap up with that because this is the one where Trump and eighteen others were charged with violating Georgia’s racketeering statute. And among other things, Trump was charged with soliciting Secretary of State Brad Raffensberger to violate this oath of office. Let’s listen to this one. It’s like
  • Speaker 16
    0:43:33

    if they try to make an example out of him. What are we gonna do about the Bush V Gore case? Like, in as since that’s also trying to overturn an election. And so I don’t think we should be able to be in a country where we can’t question the validity of something that was so widespread. I mean, I think it’s ridiculous, and they’re really scared of him, and we’ve never had someone like Trump trying to clean up.
  • Speaker 16
    0:43:56

    Everything, like, he has been. So I think everyone is just scared to death because they know he’s gonna come back with a vengeance. So they’re trying to just in any way, shape, or form no matter how ridiculous it is from him getting back in the White House.
  • Speaker 7
    0:44:08

    I think if I were him, I would feel a little bit cheated because wasn’t there a lot of issues with the mailing balance people that have maybe been deceased or, you know, maybe to the wrong address Like, I mean, there could be a lot of different variations as to how that could have negatively impacted the election. And I feel if something was taken away from me that I felt like was owed or earned, I think I would fight as hard as needed. So I tried to put myself in his position. I don’t know that I would be committing felonies or anything like that. But I I could understand why it seemed like it had been taken away from him or it wasn’t fair.
  • Speaker 7
    0:44:44

    There is a two tier justice system as we’ve all heard buzz words, but it’s almost like they’re mirroring. They’re saying you’re doing this, but they’re actually the ones really doing it or have done it.
  • Speaker 10
    0:44:56

    I haven’t actually gone back to the recording, but I’ve seen the transcript. And I do not believe that he was asking Ratensberger to somehow manipulate the situation and come up with the votes. As I understand it, he needed a certain threshold or number of votes to be considered for a recount. And I think the number that he represented was like at eleven thousand seven hundred and ninety something, and then he added one. So they they knew that they needed, like, ten percent variance or something, and he was asking for the ten percent variance plus one to be discovered.
  • Speaker 10
    0:45:40

    I mean, he’s not the most eloquent speaker. And I think it’s very easy to manipulate what he’s saying, but I don’t believe that he was blatantly asking where his burger. Hey, you know, go out there and pound the pavement and dig up some more votes for me. I think that he was honestly trying to ask for you know, please ask him for scrutiny and accountability rather than, like, manipulation.
  • Speaker 17
    0:46:07

    And I don’t think when Trump said, find these votes, that he was saying go manufacture votes. He was saying, I believe that the votes are out there, and I want you to do your job And I think that Rafinsberger thought that he was and was standing up for himself. So I guess he’s okay. I wouldn’t say that he’s strong advocate for the Republican Party, but I don’t think he’s a villain either.
  • Speaker 1
    0:46:31

    The last guy actually voted for Raffensberger. I should note.
  • Speaker 2
    0:46:34

    It’s just so remarkable. I mean, I you know what I was thinking about when you were playing that? I love my wife and my son and my daughter dearly. Dearly. I would not defend them to the degree that these people defend Donald Trump.
  • Speaker 2
    0:46:52

    If presented with evidence of wrongdoing. I mean, I would say, you know, my son’s name is Jack Jack. You know that you stole that candy bar from CVS, I saw you do it, and you’re going to have to pay the consequences. I mean, like, he doesn’t steal candy bars from CVS, but but
  • Speaker 1
    0:47:09

    Really throwing your kid under the bus there, but
  • Speaker 2
    0:47:12

    He doesn’t do it. But look, I get it. I’m a journalist, so I don’t feel this way towards politicians. I don’t feel this way towards anybody. So I can’t even remotely understand.
  • Speaker 2
    0:47:21

    How anybody is that allegiant to any politician. It’s just like with who you’re gonna believe me or your lying eyes.
  • Speaker 1
    0:47:28

    So let me ask you on this. Now that I’ve tortured you as some people suggest I do with these focus groups quotes with the series of rationalizations from all the different indictments. Yeah. Do you think there’s anything that would change voters minds about Donald Trump, Republican voters minds?
  • Speaker 2
    0:47:46

    I think no matter what, at least forty two, forty three percent of the electorate’s gonna vote for Donald Trump. And no matter what, forty two, forty three percent of the electorate’s gonna vote for Joe Biden. Period. And as you know, the fight is about all those others and more specifically in six or seven states. And the question is, what is the aggregate impact of inflation Biden’s age, Hunter Biden, you know, all the negatives and the positives for Biden.
  • Speaker 2
    0:48:20

    And all this other stuff for Trump, whatever people feel is good for Trump, and then throw abortion into the mix. And the first time we’re gonna see that in the presidential ever the idea that RoeV Wade is gone. I don’t think any of those people are persuadable, period. The only question is whether or not they would ever vote for DeSantis or Nikki Haley or Tim Scott.
  • Speaker 10
    0:48:42

    Yeah.
  • Speaker 2
    0:48:43

    And to be fair to the Trump opponents, it’s a pretty strong bench. I wouldn’t say they’re necessarily giving Trump a run for his money. But, like, Nikki Haley, Tim Scott, Ron DeSantis, Chris Christie, Aza Hutchinson, like, This is not the seven dwarfs. This is strong bench of Republican candidates. Maybe some of your listeners don’t like any of them, but, like, they’re accomplished, they’re charming, they’re, you know, whatever.
  • Speaker 2
    0:49:06

    But there’s just something about the hold that Donald Trump has on the base right now that is just It’s not even about the media. Well, it’s it is about right wing media, and the lies they tell for the sake of money and graft and ratings. And it is about mainstream media and the degree to which we are shockingly honest with our viewers to the point of risking bothering people on the left or the right. But beyond that, it’s just like we’re in unprecedented times.
  • Speaker 1
    0:49:37

    Okay, Jake Tapper. Thank you so much for joining us, and everyone make sure to order all the demons are here. You can find an easy link to in our show notes. Jake, it was so great to have you here. I loved it.
  • Speaker 1
    0:49:51

    We really appreciate you doing this. And thanks to all of you for listening to the folk group podcast will be back next week to check-in on the rest of the GOP field that Jake was just talking about. Don’t miss it. Great to be back. Thanks, Jake.
  • Speaker 1
    0:50:04

    Bye everyone.
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